"No more than 2 DWIs in the past five years"

[xmas74]

This was listed on an ad advertising CCW today. (CCW=Concealed Carry Weapon). Turns out you can take the class if you've had 2 or less DWIs in the past five years.

That just blows my mind.

[geek tragedy]

1. chronic alcohol abuse and guns are a perfectly fine mix, nt

[Buzz Clik]

2. And let's not forget the push to allow guns in bars.

Testosterone, alcohol, and guns.

They didn't allow guns in Dodge City.

[xmas74]

4. But it's just fine here in Missouri

where it's getting harder and hard to pass a billboard without it advertising a CCW class.

[xmas74]

3. Seems like two DWIs in five years would have you on probation.

People complain about how criminals get their guns illegally but it sounds like they can get them legally this way.

[Arkansas Granny]

5. But, getting a DWI doesn't make you a criminal. It just means you like to have a good time.

Where's the harm in that and why should that keep you from being a "responsible" gun owner toting a weapon around on their person?

[xmas74]

6. I'm in Missouri, you're in Arkansas.

We both know that's exactly how they see it.

A DWI makes you one of the boys.

[louis-t]

8. Yeah, you should be allowed to perteck yerself

in case someone tries to take advantage of you whilst yer drunk.

[hack89]

9. It matters only if they were felonies

in most states the first one or two DWI convictions are misdemeanors.

[davidpdx]

19. I agree

Some people end up falling through the crack and/or drive illegally when their license is suspended. If I had time I'd post the whole story, my wife's (now ex-wife) brother had many DUI's in two states and one night was drunk on a curvy road going at a fast speed. He lived, but his gf died. Ruined two lives.

[xmas74]

32. I lost a friend to a DWI.

Both were drunk. I won't repeat the story but when the drivers in both vehicles are drunk bad things can happen.

A person shouldn't be rewarded for bad behavior. Allowing someone with multiple DWIs to then have a CCW is a reward.

[hack89]

7. In many states DWIs only become felonies after the third arrest.

misdemeanor convictions are not a bar to owning guns - only felonies.

[xmas74]

10. But two DWIs should show question of a person's moral judgment

and at one time that was mentioned in the ads for CCW classes. I remember it well-the person had to be "of good moral character".

[hack89]

11. It should be hard to restrict civil liberties

Congress drew the line at felony convictions.

The problem with requiring good moral character to get a CCW is that too often in the past "good moral character" = "skin the right color" or "politically connected". There is a reason most states have moved towards shall issue for CCW.

[xmas74]

12. If you are on probation you shouldn't be able to attend.

Complete the probation and then you're eligible.

As to misdemeanor-that means someone who has been arrested for simple assault on more than a few occasions can still take the class. It doesn't seem right. Someone who was arrested for assault with a weapon but took a lessor plea could take this class, even if still on probation, as long as that's not part of their probation. (And yes, it does happen. A coworker from a couple of years ago severely beat his wife. He received a misdemeanor, unsupervised probation and couldn't be caught drinking during that time. Weapons were fine, even though he stuck a gun in his wife's face and threatened to shoot.) And I know he has a CCW-got it last year.

Seems like there should be other considerations.

[hack89]

13. Like I said, it should be hard to restrict civil liberties

to which side do you err? You have to draw a hardline somewhere - history has shown that government never runs out of "reasonable" justifications to take away "just a little" freedom for the benefit of all.

[xmas74]

15. But in the case of a DWI you've proven to be a danger to society.

Why should you also be allowed to have a CCW?

In the case of my former coworker: he's proven to be a dangerous individual. Why should he be allowed a CCW? He took a plea down to a simple assault. What he did to his wife wasn't simple yet now he's allowed CCW.

[hack89]

17. Why should someone with a DWI be able to retain a driver's license?

since they have clearly proven themselves a danger to society?

Could it be that, in the balance, it is not so much of a danger such that one offense is grounds to lose a civil liberty?

That's why the severity of the punishment increases with each DWI - because with each DWI the actual danger is greater and more likely.

You want a draconian society with no second chances - that is your solution to making society "safe". Would you be willing to extend that standard to civil rights other than guns?

[xmas74]

18. Why should they be allowed a license?

They shouldn't.

As to second chances-they were given a second chance. The ad said no more than TWO DWIs in the past five years. That sounds like more than enough chances to me.

Two DWIs in five years-in my state (Missouri) that is a class A misdemeanor, which can carry up to a year of jail time, a couple of years probation and a five year license denial. Why should they be allowed a CCW until that time is complete? I never said "never" to a CCW-what I said was that someone who has two DWIs in the past five years probably shouldn't be allowed to complete a CCW class until that time period has expired.

[hack89]

20. I suspect the risk is more theoretical than actual

that is why nobody really cares. It is well documented that CCW permit holders have a crime rate lower than the general population. Perhaps there are no facts to back up your concerns?

[xmas74]

27. It says it right in the ad.

That is the concern in its own right. It's allowed. It doesn't matter if it happens all that often or not. The fact remains that it is allowed.

Why are you defending drunk driving? It seems as though you have no problems with brushing that aside. CCW should be for law abiding citizens, which I can defend. If you drink and drive you are no longer law abiding. What part of that is so hard to understand?

[hack89]

29. Considering drunk driving is a greater threat than guns to me and my family

trust me - I am not defending drunk driving.

We are talking about why the laws are the way they are. I gave you my opinion why there is a graduated response to DWI, with subsequent offenses being viewed more seriously.

You are trying too hard to be offended.

[xmas74]

31. I'm not trying too hard to be offended.

That's just your way of trying to make me sound like a hysterical female. Maybe next you'll pat my hand and tell me to calm down a bit, since I supposedly have no idea what I'm talking about.

I know people right now with CCW-not a big deal to me. They passed the background and took the class. They're my friends and I'm fine with it. I'm not trying to take it away CCW from them or from any lawful citizen who wants it.

The fact remains that CCW should not be quite so easy to obtain. A coworker and I were discussing the ad last night. She's former military, owns a few guns and has a CCW. She stated that she knew that the DWI happened and that she saw it in her class. There was someone with two DWIs, currently on probation with an ignition lock device and they were taking a CCW class. She said that it made her angry and that others in the class also commented on it.

I live in a military town. Guns are pretty popular around here and people are adament about defending them. But this simple ad seems to have more than a few in my town up in arms, so to speak. My local newspaper is only available online with a subscription otherwise I'd link to the comments that multiple gun owners are making about why CCW is available to someone with two DWIs in such a short amount of time.
FWIW-I've used guns before. Small town-I grew up with them. I've gone on hunting trips, only to bag absolutely nothing because I'm a lousy shot. I don't personally own one but most of my friends do. I'm not anti-gun by any means. I'm pro common sense and this bit absolutely stinks. Common sense says someone with such poor judgment shouldn't be allowed CCW until they clean up their act. Waiting five years for the last DWI is a simple approach that few would argue.

[hack89]

33. ok nt

[BainsBane]

23. There is nothing about gun policy you won't justify

Unfucking real.

[hack89]

24. Just pointing out what the law presently says

no opinions, no justification - just explaining why two DWIs are not a disqualification.

You are trying to hard to be outraged - you appear a little desperate.

[theHandpuppet]

25. Of course, keep in mind...

Two DWIs means they've only been CAUGHT twice. God knows how many times such folks may have been drunk behind the wheel and didn't get caught.

[hack89]

26. True - but we only punish people we catch

it gets messy otherwise.

[LanternWaste]

14. I did not know this. It certainly validates many opinions I hold, though.

I did not know this. It certainly validates many opinions I hold, though.

How.... magnanimous.

[xmas74]

16. I wish I could post a link to the actual ad

but you have to have a subscription to the local paper to even see it.

[pipi_k]

21. OK, so...

I'm not anti-gun really, but this is ridiculous.

How about NO DWIs in the past five years?

Good lord, some of us manage to go 40+ years without even one DWI.


Like someone above said...guns and alcohol...real great combination



PS...edited to add...even though I said I'm not anti-gun, that doesn't mean I'm PRO gun, either. Just in case someone wants to jump on me for my first sentence.

[xmas74]

28. That's my thought!

I'm not a gun person but I have plenty of friends who are. I've used them in the past. We used to set up our own shooting galleries and such at a friend's farm and have a great time when we were young. If in the hands of a responsible person I'm meh either way. They're not for me but to each their own.

But when you have someone who has no common sense, has no concern for the good of society, doesn't give a damn about the damage and loss of life they could cause by driving drunk and has been caught twice doing so in the past five years? Maybe they shouldn't be allowed to participate in something of this nature.

Two DWIs in the past five years show extremely poor judgment.

[BainsBane]

22. Naturally, because CCW holders are paragons of virtue

far more responsible than the rest of us. I've been told that at least 100 times this week alone, so it must be true.

[xmas74]

30. Last I checked, CCW was and never has been a "right".

The Second Amendment says we have a right to bear arms but it never states in what manner. (We could address the interpretation in various ways but that's not what this is about.) Nowhere does it say that you have a God-given right to CCW, no matter what.

CCW is actually allowing criminals to carry in this case. I would say that most would consider someone with two DWIs in five years to be a criminal, much like the criminals people complain about having easy access to guns. In this case, the state of Missouri sees it as no problem.

CCW isn't my thing and it never has been. I don't care for it. But if CCW has to exist it should be held up to a stricter standard. If someone with two DWIs cannot get a job that allows them to carry then they shouldn't be able to have a CCW. It should be that strict. That's not ruling out no access to guns-just CCW.