Protecting our home from the scourge of garden soil theft

[BainsBane]

We have a bunch of garden soil piled in the driveway that my aunt ordered for her garden. In the past hour I've seen two cars drive up and try to help themselves to the soil. Now, if I were an armed citizen, I could have shot those people for stealing the soil. Instead, I talked to one of them and then let my aunt know to post a sign informing people to keep their hands off the soil. Clearly, we must be allowing ourselves to be victims rather than exercising our Second Amendment "rights" to kill people who take a few bucks of soil. Our failure to do so clearly means we are not real Americans. Mr. LaPierre would not be pleased.

[Liberal_in_LA]

1. do you think they thought the soil was giveaway soil?

[BainsBane]

2. I think people don't really think it through

They probably think, oh there's a bunch of soil. I could use some of that. They may not think of it as truly belonging to someone, or else they think a bit won't be missed.

[Recursion]

75. I see lots of "free fill" piles in the small town I grew up in

I don't know that it's that unreasonable to see a pile of dirt and think "cool, free dirt!"

[RILib]

80. possibly

So often "free" stuff is left near the sidewalk. I think a Not Free sign is in order.

[grasswire]

3. cover it with a tarp

and post a sign

[BainsBane]

4. great idea!

I'll let her know.

[grasswire]

5. a tarp keeps neighbor cats from pooing in the dirt, too. nt

[BainsBane]

12. Well, it turns out that last car was the couple she hired to garden for her

So it's particularly fortunate I'm not a trigger happy gunner.

[NutmegYankee]

50. I absolutely hate that.

Number one reason I hate cats. The dog at least has the decency to not shit in my garden.

[HiPointDem]

58. my dog eats the plants and stomps on them. i almost prefer the cats, at least its fertilizer.

my dog ate a calla lily head and lived.

[Trillo]

52. Maybe so, but

well-covered cat manure attracts earthworms. It seems the worms eat the cat feces, and make earthworm poop AKA earthworm castings.

[AngryAmish]

62. I won't be denied.

[snooper2]

65. aren't you right there?

Why do you have to let her know? Go grab your sheet and cover it, problem SOLVED!


Or, you can just put a swimsuit on and lay on top of the pile, it's great for getting a tan!

[BainsBane]

67. I already told her about the tarp idea

I don't know if she has one. You're welcome to come over and sun bathe as long as you leave your gun at home.

[snooper2]

69. Don't have a gun to bring but I will be bumpin' some Eazy E

Hope you don't have noise pollution laws

You got a pool I can jump in afterwards?

[BainsBane]

70. No pool

and I won't be joining you for the tanning session. I have great skin and would like to keep it that way.

[msongs]

6. move it from the driveway to the garden nt

[leftstreet]

7. What's your address?

[BainsBane]

8. No way

There are too many armed men who hate me. I'm not crazy enough to disclose that.

[Buzz Clik]

9. Um...

Nevermind.

[BainsBane]

13. Lets just say

on both sides of the isle.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

18. truly -

not worth it.

[BainsBane]

55. Yet there you are

like a moth to a flame.

[pintobean]

68. TA is no moth

She's a true blue beauty.

[NutmegYankee]

10. In 49 states shooting them would be murder.

[BainsBane]

11. It's my property

I can kill anyone on my property who is threatening my property, can't I?

[NutmegYankee]

14. No. In nearly all places you cannot kill over property.

Most are governed by "Castle doctrine", which means that if someone enters your home and is threatening you with major injury or death (imminent threat to you), you can use deadly force to protect yourself. But that's for you, not property. And it only applies within the dwelling, not outside in the driveway. Outside, you have a duty to retreat before using deadly force, and only if you can't retreat and are in immediate peril of life and limb can you use deadly force. And you cannot be the person who caused such an event, I. E., you can't go out there waiving a gun and claim self-defense if the other guy attacks you in his self-defense.

[BainsBane]

15. So is Texas the one other state?

Wasn't there the case where the guy in Texas killed someone who was running off with his neighbor's TV set?

Whenever gunners talk about why they have guns, they talk about protecting their property.

[NutmegYankee]

17. Texas was that state.

As for the other point, I take it that is based on the right to defend yourself in the home. Most people will confront a thief to try to stop the robbery (inside the house). If the thief pulls out a weapon, the homeowner would be justified in using deadly force as you have no duty to retreat inside the home. Now, if they chase the thief outside and injure or kill them out there, they are guilty of a crime.

[BainsBane]

19. Remember the Japanese trick or treater?

I believe that was Louisiana. The guy killed him and got off, if I remember correctly. It was Halloween night and the young man knocked on the wrong door while looking for a party. Nut job killed him on the spot.

[NutmegYankee]

22. For risk of being acused of region bashing, I present the Southern Jury

*sigh*

[BainsBane]

23. Well, it does show that my point was not entirely without merit

You must concede.

[NutmegYankee]

25. That the state tried him in court shows that the state believed him guilty of murder.

They just picked 12 of the dumbest people in the state to make the call.

A similar case happened in South Carolina. That man was also charged with murder.

[kestrel91316]

32. And the gun nutters weep nightly over this tragic situation.

We all know they want to be able to shoot first and ask questions later - primarily as cover for killing anybody they don't like.

[cherokeeprogressive]

28. Of course you can. I'm betting 9 times out of 10 you'll be charged with murder though...

Your post mentioned nothing about any kind of violence or threat. It only said someone was scooping dirt from a pile in your driveway. I believe that if you shot them you'd go to jail, directly to jail, and there'd be no $200 for you. Rightly so, I might add.

If you're trying to make a point, I'm afraid you're failing miserably. Only an IDIOT would shoot someone for scooping dirt in their driveway in the absence of any kind of threat pertaining to immediate harm to their selves or their family.

Now, if you're trying to make the point that only IDIOTS own guns, then say so. It would certainly involve less typing, that's for sure.

Besides, why are you asking questions you apparently already know the answers to? I hate when my Dad does that, and he's in the Hall of Fame of Passive Aggressiveness.

[BainsBane]

29. Yes, unfortunately many of those idiots have guns

and get away with it, as the discussion in this thread provides example of.

[cherokeeprogressive]

39. So far I've seen you point to two. I don't know if I'd call that "many". n/t

[BainsBane]

53. without training, licensing or registration

or even comprehensive background checks, any and everyone can own a gun. Are you actually going to tell me you think there are only two idiots in America? Or does the mere act of owning a gun increase one's IQ points?

[rrneck]

16. Lots of flaming assumptions there.

I haven't checked, and I'm not going to, but in your state if you shoot somebody over dirt you're going to jail.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

20. assumptions aren't the only thing flaming with that OP -

the word -bait- comes quickly to mind.

[rrneck]

26. There you have the dangers

of shopping for an ideology that slips comfortably into their confirmation bias instead of actually trying to think of a way to help people.

[BainsBane]

31. Yet gun folk come running

and guns weren't even in the thread of the title. No one forces them to reply. The live for this shit.

[rrneck]

38. "guns weren't even in the thread of the title"

Now, if I were an armed citizen, I could have shot those people for stealing the soil.

Starting an OP means you have solicited responses. And then you complain when people respond. Tsk.

[BainsBane]

57. I'm not complaining

I'm responding to accusations that I somehow forced you all to swarm.

[NutmegYankee]

49. I actually came in because I grow gardens and the title was intriguing.

I do a lot of raised bed gardening, mainly for vegetables and in ground gardens for perennials.

[BainsBane]

56. That's great

glad to hear it.

[BainsBane]

21. There you have the hazards of anyone owning a gun

Someone who knows the law no better than I do has a gun and kills someone, thinking they are entirely justified. There are no registration, licensing or training requirements for gun ownership.

[rrneck]

24. So I'm guessing here but

you would like nobody to own a gun? If so, that's bass ackwards from liberal ideals which hold that education can solve many if not all social ills.

If you want to restart our registration conversation, by all means commence.

[BainsBane]

27. No, we have already discussed my views on this

I don't have time to repeat them.

[rrneck]

30. No.

We just barely began to discuss your views after listening to you vent. Whenever you have to offer an actual opinion worth an intelligent discussion you bold for the hills.

[BainsBane]

35. do a search

It was before I posted in the gungeon. We were quite amicable at the time. You've forgotten entirely.

[rrneck]

42. I don't have to.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023029647

The sub thread starts here for those of you just joining our ongoing conversation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3029810

[BainsBane]

44. It was before then

If you don't care what my views are on who should own guns, that's fine. Just don't ask me to rehash conversations we've already had. It's quite clear you don't care at all.

[rrneck]

47. So you got nothing.

Is your position significantly different from that in the links I posted?

[BainsBane]

54. Yes

I didn't provide my position on guns in those posts. I expressed my exasperation at the cold indifference of gunners to gun violence directed against me as well as general views about the gun lobby. I've got plenty, but I'm not repeating it. It's obvious you don't care anyway.

Just to jog your memory, we started out by comparing my love for my dog with your love for garlic and tequila.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

34. please, don't give it gas the chainsaw is already cranked

[BainsBane]

37. Yet there you go

kicking the thread.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

41. you love it, BB

attention on the net, you crave it. drop 'em like their hot, baby.

[BainsBane]

43. apparently the same applies to you

[Tuesday Afternoon]

45. next flamebait OP you see me start ...feel free ... until then, ciao. baby.

peace out.

[rrneck]

46. It never ceases to amaze.

Some build a bubble and expect all the wrong people to not notice and the right people to join them there.

?1285698876

Others think they are actually being good citizens by starting shit on anonymous message board.



Not a few just like attracting attention.



And a select few live to tell people what to do.

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

[The Straight Story]

36. So because you don't trust yourself with a gun you don't think others should be?

When over 99% of gun owners don't do such things? Ohhhh....I get it. Pick out the few to judge the many by, just like people do when it comes to everything from racism to islam.

No wonder some favor the government watching us all the time - we think each other are all mindless criminals. Guess they got what they wanted, us fearing each other and wanting them to save us from them.

[BainsBane]

40. yep, good guys like George Zimmerman

Last edited Thu Jun 20, 2013, 05:43 AM - Edit history (1)

the guy is FL who killed the kid because his music was too loud. The guy in Louisiana who killed the Japanese trick or treater, and the Texan who killed the guy he saw running off with his neighbor's television. Those are some great guys.

With no requirements for gun ownership, as gun proponents worked assiduously to make sure is the case, any and everyone can have a gun. I can assure that many are far less responsible than I.

[bigwillq]

33. They need to be shot.

Thieves need to be shot. Maybe people wouldn't steal as often.

[pintobean]

48. The earth belongs to all of us.

[Kolesar]

51. Dry

well played!

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

59. Surely this post is intended as satire.

Even in colonial times a person who used deadly force to stop a petty theft would have been charged with criminal homicide.

[BainsBane]

61. But not in Texas, not today

Yes, it's satire.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

63. The special provision in Texas applies only to "tangible, movable property" and only at night.

It is intended to discourage the theft of livestock.

In practice today it applies mainly to things like automobiles. I doubt that a small amount of soil, or something with no intrinsic worth such as a used barbecue grill, would qualify as tangible, movable property.

What point are you attempting to convey? It's not at all clear. I have never met any person, other than a violent criminal, who would even think of killing to stop theft of a sack of soil.

[BainsBane]

66. There was a case of a man in Texas

who shot someone feeling with his neighbor's television. He was not acquitted. Evidently in Texas you can kill for property, even when it is not your own property.

My point is that our culture values property over human life and guns are seen as sacrosanct.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

71. He was convicted, I take it?

He was not acquitted. Evidently in Texas you can kill for property, even when it is not your own property.

I don't understand what you are trying to communicate.

My point is that our culture values property over human life and guns are seen as sacrosanct.

Are you saying that the laws that prohibit killing to prevent theft in nearly all situations (all but one very narrow exception in one state,) are not consistent with the values of the culture?

Are you criticizing the culture, or the law here?

[BainsBane]

77. No, he wasn't

If I recall correctly. Others here remembered the case.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

78. Hung jury and no re-trial?

[BainsBane]

79. I don't recall

It was a few years ago. If you're that interested, Google it. I just tried and I found scads of cases of Texas shooting burglars and neighbors.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

81. I found a case involving a man named Joe Horn that seems to fit the criteria you describe.

The Harris County grand jury declined to press any charges against him. It seems that members of that particular community hold thieves in very low regard. The grand jury took a broad interpretation of the law. There was some controversy, but the word of the grand jury was final.

If I were a thief, I think I'd choose to ply my trade somewhere else. The reason our country was created as a federation of independent states is that people in different regions hold different values and have different priorities. The history of Texas is characterized by large tracts of land and sparse law enforcement, with much of the wealth being in the form of living things that travel under their own power - Cattle, horses, etc. The reasons for the current state of the law in Texas now are easy to understand if you look at its past.

[BainsBane]

82. Well, it seemingly has little effect

because people continue to steal. I take it you're a fan of the death penalty was well. Les Miserable style?
TX is definitely the place for you then, and Harris county in particular: the death penalty capital of the world.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

83. No, I'm on record as being opposed to the death penalty, and slavery as well.

TX is definitely the place for you then, and Harris county in particular: the death penalty capital of the world.

Executions are not really my cup of tea, but their Gay Rodeo Association seems like a jolly bunch of fellows.

I am strongly in favor of self-determination by the people of a region. The Ottoman Empire cut off peoples' hands for theft. I personally find that revolting and barbaric, but it isn't my place to tell members of a Mohammedan society how to live their lives. I leave them alone, they leave me alone. I am not forced to live there, or in Texas.

[kentauros]

60. Protecting it with words is fine.

Personally, I'd use a sign with words and symbols, like this:

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

64. That is a thinking person's way of doing things!

[kentauros]

72. Yeah, but it still won't stop kids from eating it!

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

74. From what I've seen of this century so far, there are probably kids who would snort the stuff.

[kentauros]

76. However they get it into their bodies,

it's still good for them, or so studies say for all the good bacteria in dirt. Some kids today aren't allowed to get dirty, and their parents would likely have a fatal anxiety attack if they stuck a handful of dirt into their mouths.

No red-dirt drool for you, kiddo!

[zonkers]

73. As a gardener, the last thing I'd do isintegrate garden soil of unknown origin into my garden. nt

[BainsBane]

84. Wise decision

You never know where it's been