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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:18 AM Jun 2013

Here's How the NSA Decides Who It Can Spy On

Here's How the NSA Decides Who It Can Spy On

—By Kevin Drum

The NSA isn't allowed to spy on Americans, but the nature of modern communication doesn't always make it obvious whether a phone call or email is foreign or domestic. This means that in the course of its normal business of spying on foreigners, NSA will inevitably collect information it shouldn't have. Certain rules, called "minimization procedures," define what NSA is required to do when it discovers that it has inadvertently captured a U.S. person in its surveillance dragnet.

Today, in the latest release of classified NSA documents from Glenn Greenwald, we finally got a look at these minimization procedures. Here's the nickel summary:

The top secret documents published today detail the circumstances in which data collected on US persons under the foreign intelligence authority must be destroyed, extensive steps analysts must take to try to check targets are outside the US, and reveals how US call records are used to help remove US citizens and residents from data collection.

I have a feeling it must have killed Glenn to write that paragraph. But on paper, anyway, the minimization procedures really are pretty strict. If NSA discovers that it's mistakenly collected domestic content, it's required to cease the surveillance immediately and destroy the information it's already collected. However, there are exceptions. They can:

Retain and make use of "inadvertently acquired" domestic communications if they contain usable intelligence, information on criminal activity, threat of harm to people or property, are encrypted, or are believed to contain any information relevant to cybersecurity.

The Guardian has posted two classified documents online. The first one describes the procedure for determining whether a surveillance target is legitimate (i.e., a non-U.S. person located outside the country). The second one describes the minimization procedures in case of inadvertent targeting of a U.S. person. There are a few obvious things to say about them:

  • The determination document repeatedly emphasizes that NSA bases its decisions on the "totality of the circumstances." There are quite a few safeguards listed to make sure that only foreigners are targeted, but in the end these are often judgment calls from analysts.

  • The minimization procedures are fairly strict, but they do allow retention and dissemination of domestic data—without a warrant—under quite a few circumstances. "Threat of harm" is pretty broad, as is "criminal activity." The latter, in fact, seems like a loophole the size of a Mack truck. It suggests that NSA could have a significant incentive to "inadvertently" hoover up as much domestic information as possible so it can search for evidence of criminal activity to hand over to the FBI.

  • The oversight procedures are pretty thin. Analysts have quite a bit of discretion here.
- more -

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/06/heres-how-nsa-decides-who-it-can-spy

WaPo: New documents reveal parameters of NSA’s secret surveillance programs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023058091

NYT: Documents Detail N.S.A. Surveillance Rules
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023058210


29 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Here's How the NSA Decides Who It Can Spy On (Original Post) ProSense Jun 2013 OP
Having Waded Through These Documents, Ma'am The Magistrate Jun 2013 #1
Agreed. K & R. n/t FSogol Jun 2013 #2
People are going to be ProSense Jun 2013 #4
Indeed, these minimization procedures go to the substance of what Snowden HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #8
No, ProSense Jun 2013 #9
I think you and I may actually agree here. I am saying that HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #10
I think there is broad agreement, but ProSense Jun 2013 #15
Several years ago, I did a temp job in Tech Support for a small TelCo in Los Angeles. This telco HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #21
Yes. n/t ProSense Jun 2013 #24
An analyst isn't technically capable of tapping any call in progress snooper2 Jun 2013 #16
Are you an NSA analyst? Or who is this 'we' you speak of? Not HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #17
"we" being us folks who work in telecommunications snooper2 Jun 2013 #19
Thank you for the detail. Without diving into the alphabet soup or jargon, I would merely say HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #22
The question for me and most of us is if we want the NSA doing this stuff. I do not. And do not.... Logical Jun 2013 #5
you have now communicated with a foreigner who was once suspected by the security services Monkie Jun 2013 #7
It makes one wonder whether an American who sends an email to the Guardian HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #11
some people that post in the guardian comments say un-american things! Monkie Jun 2013 #13
+1 BenzoDia Jun 2013 #29
Thanks for posting these items though I do not agree with the method in which they are acquired. Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #3
One loophole: if its encrypted. Another: if there is no location data. dkf Jun 2013 #6
A third -- "criminal activity" is vague enough. Pholus Jun 2013 #26
That could be a great blackmail tool. dkf Jun 2013 #27
During the Bush years, warrantless wiretapping wasn't "allowed", either. winter is coming Jun 2013 #12
Enormous potential for abuse-- marions ghost Jun 2013 #14
It seems like it was designed to be abused...Abuse was built into the system. byeya Jun 2013 #20
Designed to be abused--that's how I see it marions ghost Jun 2013 #25
Great article. Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #18
Thanks! Scurrilous Jun 2013 #23
k flamingdem Jun 2013 #28

The Magistrate

(95,241 posts)
1. Having Waded Through These Documents, Ma'am
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:24 AM
Jun 2013

I do not see anything particularly alarming or threatening in them. Obviously, any set of guidelines could be abused, but if these are run by normally accepted definitions of the terms employed, this is pretty innocuous.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
4. People are going to be
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:29 AM
Jun 2013

"I do not see anything particularly alarming or threatening in them. Obviously, any set of guidelines could be abused, but if these are run by normally accepted definitions of the terms employed, this is pretty innocuous."

...forced to debate this on the facts, and the potential for abuse seems to be the most dire concern: "The oversight procedures are pretty thin."

The methods and scope are also an issue.



 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
8. Indeed, these minimization procedures go to the substance of what Snowden
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:45 AM
Jun 2013

originally said, at least as I read and listened to him.

Snowden claimed NSA analysts and contractors like himself could tap into any phone call they desired, not that they actually were doing so. (The act of actually doing it may have been implied in some of Snowden's words or some of Greenwald's writing that I missed and, if so, I stand corrected.) Likewise, Snowden may have claimed (although I don't recall it) that the NSA could store every phone call but not that they actually were storing every phone call.

To me, there's a galaxy of difference between a technical capability to do something -- itself debatable -- and the fact that something technically capable is actually being done.

Am I making too much of a distinction without a difference?

BTW, thank you very much for posting this. I am reccing for what the nuances it adds to the heated discussion.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
9. No,
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:54 AM
Jun 2013

"Snowden claimed NSA analysts and contractors like himself could tap into any phone call they desired, not that they actually were doing so. "

...there is still authorization required, and only a small pool are authorized to access the data.

5 New Revelations About NSA Surveillance

—By Dana Liebelson

1) Surveillance Has Contributed to Thwarting More Than 50 Terror Plots Since 9/11

<...>

2) The NSA Doesn't Need Court Approval Each Time it Searches Americans' Phone Records

NSA Deputy Director John Inglis said that 22 NSA officials are authorized to approve requests to query an agency database that contains the cellphone metadata of American citizens. (Metadata includes the numbers of incoming and outgoing calls, the date and time the calls took place, and their duration.) Deputy AG Cole also said that all queries of this database must be documented and can be subject to audits. Cole also said that the the NSA does not have to get separate Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) approval for each query; instead, the agency merely has to file a monthly report with the court on how many times the database was queried, and how many of those searches targeted the phone records of Americans.

3) 10 NSA Officials Have Permission to Give Information About US Citizens to the FBI

There are 10 NSA officials—including Inglis and Alexander—involved in determining whether information collected about US citizens can be provided to the FBI. It can only be shared if there's independent evidence that the target has connections to a terrorist organization. Inglis said that if the information is found to be irrelevant, it must be destroyed. If the NSA mistakenly targets an American citizen, it must report this to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

4) Other Countries are Less Transparent Than the US, Officials Say

Cole said that the FISA Amendments Act provides more due process than is afforded to citizens of European countries, including Germany, the U.K., and France. Alexander added that "virtually all" countries have laws that compel telecommunications firms to turn over information on suspects.

5) Fewer Than 300 Phone Numbers Were Targeted in 2012

NSA officials say that even though the agency has access to Americans' phone records, it investigated fewer than 300 phone numbers connected to US citizens in 2012. The officials did not provide any detail on the number of email addresses targeted.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/06/5-new-revelations-nsa-top-secret-surveillance-programs

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023041631

 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
10. I think you and I may actually agree here. I am saying that
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:02 AM
Jun 2013

just because an analyst is technically capable of tapping a call in progress (or capturing and storing it for subsequent retrieval) does not mean that analysts are actually doing this.

The technical capability does not, in and of itself, equal an operational reality.

Am I missing your drift? Are you saying the NSA does not even have the technical capability to tap conversations in progress (or capture them for subsequent retrieval)?

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
15. I think there is broad agreement, but
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:22 AM
Jun 2013
I think you and I may actually agree here. I am saying that

just because an analyst is technically capable of tapping a call in progress (or capturing and storing it for subsequent retrieval) does not mean that analysts are actually doing this.

The technical capability does not, in and of itself, equal an operational reality.

Am I missing your drift? Are you saying the NSA does not even have the technical capability to tap conversations in progress (or capture them for subsequent retrieval)?

...I am still not certain that Snowden's claims are valid. Maybe the technical capability is hacking the system or otherwise gaining unauthorized access (not even sure that's feasible), but I'm not sure about the claim that he could simply listen to phone calls at his desk.




 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
21. Several years ago, I did a temp job in Tech Support for a small TelCo in Los Angeles. This telco
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:53 AM
Jun 2013

specialized in providing calling services to prison and jail inmates. (It was a very sleazy experience and I had to shower every night when I got home from work, but that's a whole other story.) Every one of the inmates' calls was recorded and placed in a master call database, in case law enforcement needed to listen in after the fact. (And I could listen to these recorded calls, although I hasten to assure you I did not!)

This was back around 2004. So I share your uncertainty about whether an analyst would be technically able to tap into a live call in progress from his or her desk -- I've read arguments pro and con on that -- but, based on my experience, those calls could certainly be recorded for later listening. Again, though, just because they could be recorded doesn't mean they were, nor that Snowden would have had access to any calls so recorded.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
16. An analyst isn't technically capable of tapping any call in progress
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:30 AM
Jun 2013

Otherwise we wouldn't have to use trusted third parties for CALEA enforcement.

 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
17. Are you an NSA analyst? Or who is this 'we' you speak of? Not
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:43 AM
Jun 2013

being snarky, just trying to make sure I'm understanding where you're coming from.

Along those lines, what is 'CALEA enforcement'? (Sorry, I don't recognize the acronym).

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
19. "we" being us folks who work in telecommunications
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:49 AM
Jun 2013

CALEA - an act passed by Congress in 1994 to help define wiretapping requirements mandated by the FCC

Here's a post I did a while back trying to explain how it actually works (when a carrier receives a warrant for surveillance of a target)


-----------------------------------------------------------------


Today our new term to learn is "Safe Harbor"

Most all companies outsource the connectivity to LEA (law enforcement agencies) to a trusted third party. Usually an MPLS VPN is established using a couple 10M or 100M circuits to the company you contract with, the trusted third party.

You can either let them directly handle the warrants and implement the tap by giving them access to your switches, OR, you have your own personnel with the proper clearance to implement the "tap" and direct the traffic over that MPLS VPN back to the trusted third party, who then send the traffic to various LEA. These companies already have the data connectivity back to places like Quantico. Google Quantico if you haven't heard that term before.

Here are two companies who do this for a living-


West Central Support
http://www.wcsupport.com/calea.php

West Central Support Offers a Complete CALEA Solutions Package
West Central support provides Procera Networks PacketLogic platform, a cost effective, complete, and scalable solution that seamlessly integrates into the service provider's existing network, without the need to upgrade any network element in the network infrastructure fabric. Procera's unique value proposition is that in addition to being able to handle the Interception and Delivery of content as sanctioned by the FCC CALEA regulations, the solution also delivers the most accurate, policy-based traffic management capabilities for Broadband Service Providers (BSPs).

In addition to providing Procera Networks' PacketLogic platform as a viable CALEA solution, West Central Support provides Trusted Third Party (TTP) CALEA services. We will analyze your network to identify the optimal location for the Packet Logic platform and assist in the set up, installation, and testing of the equipment. As the TTP, West Central Support will receive the intercept request from the ISP and appropriately configure the rules in PacketLogic to meet the specifics of the intercept request as well as facilitate information delivery to the LEA and handle the appropriate paperwork and filings.






http://www.subsentio.com/
SUBSENTIO — THE MARKET LEADER IN ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE SERVICES
At Subsentio, Safe Harbor is not just a provision within the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (CALEA), it is our business philosophy. Our mission is to provide a safe environment for service providers, their subscribers and law enforcement should a need for electronic surveillance arise. This level of trust to provide a Safe Harbor in an industry that is turbulent at best can only be delivered by personnel with decades of experience — expertise that is unmatched within this small, but vitally important, niche of telecommunications. For Subsentio, providing Safe Harbor is not a job, it is our passion.

Based in Centennial, Colorado, Subsentio’s surveillance technology connects telecommunication service providers with Federal, State and Local Law Enforcement monitoring centers to comply with lawfully authorized electronic surveillance (LAES) court orders. From national carriers to ultra-small rural providers, Subsentio is responsible for millions of subscribers with a wide range of communication services. These services are often complex, multi-vendor environments encompassing differing phases of technological approaches that require our expertise to properly perform a lawful intercept.



 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
22. Thank you for the detail. Without diving into the alphabet soup or jargon, I would merely say
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 12:03 PM
Jun 2013

that the NSA's core mission is Signal Intelligence ('SigInt') and simple logic suggests that it would hardly need to contract with outside third parties to gain access to a given telco's switch and its residual software (provided the telco cooperated or complied with a National Security Letter).

Which brings me back to my original point: the fact that the NSA can do something, i.e., has the technical capability to do something, does not mean that the NSA is doing something.

BTW, I worked in telecom in tech support for about 2.5 years but it was a few years back and I've forgotten a lot. So please excuse me for any lapses in memory

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
5. The question for me and most of us is if we want the NSA doing this stuff. I do not. And do not....
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:29 AM
Jun 2013

trust them not to abuse the data. And do not think it has stopped 10 terror attacks much less 50.


 

Monkie

(1,301 posts)
7. you have now communicated with a foreigner who was once suspected by the security services
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:45 AM
Jun 2013

have a nice day, sir.

 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
11. It makes one wonder whether an American who sends an email to the Guardian
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:06 AM
Jun 2013

criticizing its NSA coverage might result in the sender being swept up in the dragnet (because the Guardian is based outside the U.S.). That would truly be an irony worthy of Orwell or Joseph Heller.

 

Monkie

(1,301 posts)
13. some people that post in the guardian comments say un-american things!
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:13 AM
Jun 2013

you are right it is absurd, especially considering they seem to claim the right to store your data for 5 years, and if you said anything criminal or potentially criminal on the guardian website, if you commented on a topic relating to the occupy movement, or the demonstrations in brazil or turkey that are just a bit too positive, well that is almost terrorism? almost a threat to property?

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
3. Thanks for posting these items though I do not agree with the method in which they are acquired.
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:29 AM
Jun 2013

Snowden has set himself up as a criminal, apparently intentionally gathered and released information which is not allowed by his Code of Ethics with NSA.

 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
6. One loophole: if its encrypted. Another: if there is no location data.
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:31 AM
Jun 2013

However, alongside those provisions, the Fisa court-approved policies allow the NSA to:

• Keep data that could potentially contain details of US persons for up to five years;

• Retain and make use of "inadvertently acquired" domestic communications if they contain usable intelligence, information on criminal activity, threat of harm to people or property, are encrypted, or are believed to contain any information relevant to cybersecurity;

• Preserve "foreign intelligence information" contained within attorney-client communications;

• Access the content of communications gathered from "U.S. based machine[s]" or phone numbers in order to establish if targets are located in the US, for the purposes of ceasing further surveillance.




Where the NSA has no specific information on a person's location, analysts are free to presume they are overseas, the document continues.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/20/fisa-court-nsa-without-warrant

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
26. A third -- "criminal activity" is vague enough.
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 01:33 PM
Jun 2013

Almost sounds like a fishing expedition is allowed to save information that could sink an opposition candidate as long as there is a suspicion that that person's electronic communications contains "information on criminal activity."

 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
27. That could be a great blackmail tool.
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 01:39 PM
Jun 2013

Do politicians encrypt their emails? If there is any profession that does all their emails are open to scrutiny.

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
12. During the Bush years, warrantless wiretapping wasn't "allowed", either.
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:13 AM
Jun 2013

So we should believe the NSA is now restricting itself only to what is "allowed" because...?

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
14. Enormous potential for abuse--
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:16 AM
Jun 2013

No matter these procedures. The secrecy surrounding the surveillance indicates that we are not protected. There is no real justification for this degree of data mining. People can list all the official procedures "on paper" they want. It does not amount to protections. We were not supposed to know this was even going on, so how do you trust anything after that? "Judgement calls from analysts" with little oversight. They railroaded this past congress and the president IMO. The people have had no voice in it until now.

(OP: my comments are rhetorical).

Bookmarking for later

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
25. Designed to be abused--that's how I see it
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 01:22 PM
Jun 2013

And I think it would be apparent to most lawyers. But the People did not get to read the fine print. They got no legal advice. Because even Congress did not know how bad it is, there wasn't adequate oversight. Railroaded through via the Senate "Intelligence" Committee =



It was Decided--as though we are children needing big daddy (or big brother) to protect us. Arrogance and over-reach doesn't begin to account for the breach of the public trust here. The reality is worse. We should all feel insulted--those of us who are not complicit.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
18. Great article.
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:44 AM
Jun 2013

Hopefully, more and more actual facts can come out about the NSA program to answer the questions that some people had about it.

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