I'm not particularly a fan of Paula Deen, but I think this is all much ado about nothing.

[politicaljunkie41910]

I read the deposition transcripts and I think that Paula Deen's actions are typical of people her age who were born in the south. I don't know whether she is a racist and nothing I've read tells me that she is. And this is coming from someone is who black and grew up in south central Los Angeles. I'm shocked that Wendy Williams (of How you doin fame) would weigh in on the matter, as if she has never used the "N" word. I know that blacks think that it's okay for them to use the word, but all hell breaks loose if someone else says it. I don't know whether Paula Deen and/or her brother are racists; or whether her brother is guilty of sexual harassment of the former employee who filed the claim. I just know that I've read everything I've seen in print related to the 'story' and I didn't see any there, there. Yes, she talked about a southern style plantation wedding with black waiters. How nestalgic? It reminds her of a different era in time. Yes she talked about using the "N" word, but I'm not surprised by that. I'd have been more surprised if she said she had never used it. And the fact that she couldn't remember the context in which she used it doesn't surprise me. I'm sure in that era is was a normal part of speech for people in the society she grew up in. I'm sure she was a product of her environment.

Many people cling to an era that has gone by and ain't coming back. I don't think that it necessarily means that she longs for the days when when people were in bondage; but perhaps just a different time. I look back on my childhood and reminance, and we were so poor, we couldn't pay attention (as we used to say). Still, those are some of my happiest memories. Not because we were poor but because of the good memories I have of the people I was with and the things that we did. Which just goes to show that those were simple times with simple pleasures. We have more "things" now, and those "things" don't necessarily ensure happiness.

[dionysus]

1. .

[Puzzledtraveller]

2. *takes a seat next to dionysus*

[truebrit71]

40. Move over....psst..get anymore popcorn?

[malaise]

69. May I have some of Paula Deen's

butter?

[Douglas Carpenter]

3. Im not quite sure what Paula Deen was saying

Was she saying, "I grew up in a time and place where almost everyone talked that way and had racist views. But I have not talked that way or felt that way for years and now consider such attitudes completely wrong."? Or was she saying that she doesn't see anything wrong with those attitudes and that language? With all of the stories flying around - I find it a little hard to actually decipher what her actual point was. Was she talking about doing a kind of dinner with a sort of "Gone With the Wind" pre-Civil War plantation theme? Or did she have something really sinister in mind? I'm just not sure what she was getting at.

[NJCher]

155. strange party idea

Was she talking about doing a kind of dinner with a sort of "Gone With the Wind" pre-Civil War plantation theme?

I don't know, but I read her idea was to have all black waiters. She seemed to be captivated with their being in uniform.

So I was thinking about that and I said to myself--who could possibly feel comfortable at a party like that? Wouldn't you just feel so strange? I know I couldn't enjoy myself.


Cher

[msanthrope]

4. When you create a racist and sexual hostile work environment, you should

pay for it. No employee is obligated to put up with a racist boss, and no employee should have to put up with a boss who thinks that it's appropriate to view pornography in front of them.

[REP]

89. Thread win

That's what the lawsuit is about. She can be as stupid as she wants to be - but she can't take it out on her employees.

[JustAnotherGen]

5. I don't know

But the Boondocks is coming out with season 4 on adult swim this year -

I'll bet you anything they have a field day with this . . . Like an update to the "Itis" episode.

[LittleBlue]

15. That show is great

McGruder's a genius

[JustAnotherGen]

16. One of my favorites

And if you like it - you probably get some of my recent posts and threads. With all this racially stuff going on and whatnot.

I'm a lot like Huey - and a little like Riley - with a bit of Ed Wuncler thrown in . . . and folks don't like that much around here!

[LittleBlue]

21. Wuncler

The supporting cast is great. Uncle Ruckus is funny as hell too.

[JustAnotherGen]

26. Wuncler Quote

Ed Wuncler: The only joy I get from these parties is standing around telling mean-spirited jokes at other people's expense.

Robert 'Granddad' Freeman: I do that, too!

Ed Wuncler: Check out that guy. Why is his face all twisted up like that? Looks like he jacks off with Icy Hot. He looks like he just shit a gerbil!

I 'relate' to Wuncler more than I would like to acknowledge at times. . .

Gaaah - I relate to Grand Daddy Bush - God damn myself!

Robert 'Granddad' Freeman: Mr. Wuncler, I'm... sorry about the whole, you know, my grandson shooting your grandson out of the window thing. Are you mad?

Ed Wuncler: In 30 years, that boy will be the President of the United States. And he'll still be a fucking idiot. Now, are we gonna have that drink or what?

[Tarheel_Dem]

82. YYYYAAAAAYYYYYY!!!! I hadn't heard about that. Huey, Riley and Grandpa. YES!

[Wait Wut]

6. I can understand your point of view, but...

...what should the 'age' cutoff be? How far 'south' is southern? Would Southern Illinois qualify?

This is the thing, we don't need to be tolerant of racism and bigotry just because someone is old and set in their ways or because they come from the 'bad part of town'. You can't tell me that as involved in the public as she is that she doesn't know any better. You can't tell me that she's never had the chance to grow as a human being. No one is asking for her to be lynched. I, personally, would just like her to reevaluate what she's said and try to figure out why a big section of the country let out a simultaneous, "Wtf?".

She 'could' be a really sweet person 90% of the time. But it only takes 10% of a bad apple to make the rest unappealing. (or should I say, unapEEling. )

[dionysus]

7. my mom grew up in the north in the 40s and 50s. although they didn't toss around the n-bomb,

it's was common for people to refer to African Americans as "colored". it's just what everyone said at the time. it wasn't meant with malice but she still said it once in a while. that far different that the n-bomb, though.

as far as paula deen goes, sees she was using offensive words fairly recently...

[Wait Wut]

8. My 84 year old MIL...

...would constantly refer to Asians as 'orientals'. It took awhile to get her to change. Although, the expression on my Japanese DILs face the first time she heard it was almost worth the embarrassment. After we finally got her to stop using the word, she'd ask me what the appropriate word for everyone was. She wanted to learn.

She was a southern Illinois, self-proclaimed 'river rat'. Not racist or bigoted, it was the era she was raised. I miss her.

[a kennedy]

9. *nodding* I have a friend who's about 10 years older then I am and he has used the term

colored quite of few times.....burns my ears, and I don't correct him, I just let it pass and think he doesn't mean anything by it. It sure does burn my ears when he says it though.

[dionysus]

86. i know what you mean. But if you look at some older organazations,

UNCF = United Negro College fund, and NAACP, National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. Is the naming just a product of the times they were created? You don't see the word negro or colored used much in polite conversation these days, do you?

[treestar]

90. Could be, cause I have a hard time giving up "black"

which shows what era I came from.

[RebelOne]

33. I was born in Philadelphia in 1939. My father bought a trucking company

in South Florida just after WW2 started. I grew up and attended school in the South with racism all around me. No one called blacks African-Americans or negroes. They were always called colored people.

[cali]

10. I've read it too. it's clearly racist.

[Sheldon Cooper]

11. Agreed, if the allegations are true.

Here is what she is alleged to have said, as recently as 2007 (emphasis added by me):

As evidence that Deen “holds such racist views herself,” the complaint details an incident that occurred when Jackson was in charge of “food and serving arrangements” at Hier’s wedding in 2007. The complaint includes a comment Deen allegedly made when asked by Jackson what type of uniforms the servers should wear at the wedding.

“Well what I would really like is a bunch of little niggers to wear long-sleeve white shirts, black shorts and black bow ties, you know in the Shirley Temple days, they used to tap dance around,” the lawsuit claims Deen said. “Now that would be a true southern wedding, wouldn’t it? But we can’t do that because the media would be on me about that.” http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/06/paula-deen-racial.php

I realize that she comes from an age and place where use of the n-word was commonplace 40-50 years ago. I wouldn't fault her for that. I do, however, fault her for using that kind of language as recently as six years ago. If this is true, it's outrageous, not to mention extremely stupid.

[FarCenter]

12. Since Paula Deen is white, she must be racist

In Affirmative Action Sensitivity Training Groups in the '70s and '80s we all learned that all whites are racist.

Has anything changed?

[cali]

19. wtf? this is something straight off of freeperville

she's racist because she demonstrated through things she said that she's racist.

[sarisataka]

22. I have seen it on DU quite recently

white=bigot

I don't care enough about Deen to have followed in any detail what was said when, but the bits I have picked up do seem to indicate an old school passive racism if nothing else

[cali]

27. bullshit. and whatever is going on on DU has nothing to do with

her being a racist. her deposition makes it crystal clear that she is. now maybe YOU excuse whatever the fuck "old school passive racism" is, but I call it ugly bigotry.

it's disgusting that you're excusing it as "old school passive racism".

[sarisataka]

32. bullshit back at you

under-educated, paranoid, white (hence bigoted), and the like.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2993861

As I said, I have not really followed this story. I find her annoying and don't care about her. I never excused anything, thank you for putting words in my mouth. You can call it what you will; I did say it was racism.

Maybe between your disgust, you can acknowledge that you assumed that which I did not say

[cali]

36. you're excusing it and you're using right wing bullshit

I have seen it on DU quite recently

white=bigot

please link to any post that says white=bigot.

[sarisataka]

39. Um, I did give a link

Last edited Fri Jun 21, 2013, 06:20 PM - Edit history (1)

And still I never did excuse it. I called it passive in the sense that she is not some rabid, dial back the clock to the good old Dixie days racist, but the type of person brought up with such accepted racism she does not even realize she is racist.

I am not sure what RW bullshit I'm using.

[FarCenter]

29. See "Misogyny, sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. and unconscious internalization"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023061181

It seems consistent with what we were taught and it deals with the topic more generally.

[cali]

38. I've seen it. that is not what it says. I don't particularly like the op

but it sure as shit doesn't say that all white people are racist. fuck.

[FarCenter]

56. That's pretty much what it says

It is exactly the same with racism.... We still receive many racist, ... messages from all directions and we almost all internalize these to some extent, and if we aren't careful to take time to reflect on our thoughts we most certainly will not rid ourselves of these unconscious prejudices and biases.

Where it differs is whether introspection can "ourselves of these unconscious prejudices and biases". It is more likely that unconscious prejudices and biases are indelible. One cannot actually rid oneself of them, but one can conciously recognize and control them.

[geek tragedy]

24. Idiotic comment bemoaning the plight of white people. nt

[HiPointDem]

41. omg. i haven't heard anyone talk about 'sensitivity training' since the 70s. straight out of

far right wingerville.

[FarCenter]

45. It was mandatory then.

[HiPointDem]

48. mandatory -- for who?

[FarCenter]

49. For all non-hourly employees

[HiPointDem]

62. employees of what, because it wasn't for me. in fact i never heard of it until far-right wingers

started talking about it.

[FarCenter]

84. Employees of a major US corporation.

IIRC, the employee training was required as part of a consent decree to settle a lawsuit for past discrimination.

[HiPointDem]

85. not all corporations; a specific one.

[kestrel91316]

129. BS. I went through HS and college in the 70s and also had some F/T jobs during that time.

Never encountered sensitivity training of any kind, let alone any that said all whites were racist.

You must be referring to something said by a resentful RWer who wants to keep black people poor and submissive and just makes shit up.

[Marrah_G]

67. wtf?

[marmar]

76. Apparently you didn't learn that much.

[HiPointDem]

13. she was 20 in 1967, height of civil rights movement. she spent all her adulthood post-jim crow.

[leftstreet]

20. +1

Thank you

Jeez there's no critical thinking in any of race threads lately

[JustAnotherGen]

108. Thanks for pointing out the obvious

She's the same age as my mother - and my mother is not an asshole of the highest kind.

[obama2terms]

14. No, there's no excuse

For saying the things she said, or making such a hostile environment for her employees. Yeah we have all made the mistake of saying it, but what she said was no slip of the tongue. My mother grew up in Memphis is now in her 60's and knows that it's not ok to say it. My grandmother ( may she rest in peace) who would be 89 now, grew up in Mississippi and she heard the n-word all the time, she witnessed what would now be considered hate crimes against black people, and just general racism that sadly the south is known for. ( even though it's everywhere) and she used to say "only filth and trash have the n word in their vocabulary". Just remember the days of racial in-equality in this country were not that long ago, it's sad past that we should neither forgive or forget. She's not "a product of her environment" she's a racist jerk, that has respect for no one. I'm glad she's been exposed for who she really is, you're not helping anyone by being a bigot apologist.

[Judi Lynn]

74. You have certainly nailed it. Thanks for finding the right words. n/t

[obama2terms]

87. Thanks!

[dawg]

17. No. It is a big deal.

I will agree with you that what she said was pretty typical for a white person in Georgia of her age group, but it is still terrible and needs to be held up to public scorn and ridicule.

People need to recognize how hurtful crap like this is. And they need to be called out whenever they say this stuff. The days of just shaking our heads and mumbling "crazy old racist" under our breath need to be over. We need to verbally slap them down.

[Ohio Joe]

18. ummmm... When you use racist words and tell racist jokes...

You are a racist.

[bike man]

51. Anyone? Anywhere, in any situation? Anytime?

[cali]

58. yes. when you use racist language you are a racist.

[bike man]

60. Well, there is this:

both from the same link, but different instances



http://www.motownsports.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-25164.html



While running for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2003, Howard Dean uttered this beauty: "I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks."

"You think the Republican National Committee could get this many people of color in a single room?" Dean asked to laughter. "Only if they had the hotel staff in here." At least he said "people of color" instead of "colored people".

[cali]

61. what utter bullshit

yeah, that's just like using the "n" word. sure. people of color is just so racist. and as for the confederate flag comment, it was stupid but it wasn't racist.

fuck. that was pathetic on your part, dear.

[bike man]

73. The one comment was stereotyping whole groups of people, and the other

suggests that either "people of color" are wait staff, or wait staff are "people of color" - either way is racist, and would not be tolerated if said by someone we don't like.

[Judi Lynn]

75. Oh, please. Get a hobby. n/t

[Generic Brad]

83. I agree with you 100%, Cali

I refuse to associate with anyone who uses language like that. And I am completely unforgiving to those who attempt to justify it. This whole Paula Deen situation is very personal to me. I have had relatives say racially inflammatory things about my wife and daughter to me in private and I permanently hold a grudge and refuse to associate with them until they apologize for their behavior which I estimate will be never. Tigers do not change their stripes and racists never apologize.

I understand if someone used language like that in the 60's before awareness was raised; but this has been clearly unacceptable socially for more than 30 years now. If she said those things within the past decade, she deserves every ounce of backlash that comes her way.

[lumberjack_jeff]

133. Demonstrably false.

http://gw21.tumblr.com/page/5

[cali]

135. well that sure didn't demonstrate that it's false. or even come close.

[lumberjack_jeff]

139. I was raised to think that the N word is intolerably rude.

But it's depressingly presumptuous to use it as a categorical basis for psychoanalysis.

[cali]

141. I was raised to think that's it's intolerably hurtful and wrong. quite a difference.

[lumberjack_jeff]

143. "Rude" is the old-fashioned word for "hurtful" n/t

[Ohio Joe]

66. Yes - nt

[Marrah_G]

68. Yes

[City Lights]

119. Yes. nt

[geek tragedy]

23. How to spot a closet racist in one easy step: they whine about not being allowed to use the n-word

I'm shocked that Wendy Williams (of How you doin fame) would weigh in on the matter, as if she has never used the "N" word. I know that blacks think that it's okay for them to use the word, but all hell breaks loose if someone else says it.

Go sit next to Paula Deen.

[Bobbie Jo]

34. Yes...

Channeling Dr. Laura.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

25. Tens of millions of people in this country...

have thought and said worse things than Paula Deen has, and some of them are members of Congress or in state legislatures and are really in a position to hurt people.

Paula Deen is a friggin' celebrity chef, and suddenly I'm supposed to start giving two shits about what she thinks?

I'll pass, thanks.

[The Link]

28. What are you saying? Its unfair that you can't use the n-word?

[bunnies]

35. No, no. You missed the punchline...

The op says he/she is black & grew up in south central. Then adds " I know that blacks think that it's okay for them to use the word, but all hell breaks loose if someone else says it."

So, its a-ok for the OP to use the word. Since the OP is one of "them".

[The Link]

37. wow.

[Lilyeye]

96. I caught that too. That line gave it all away. Nice try though lol.

[Iggo]

137. Oh shit!

[cali]

30. this thread is outing people. or rather a number of you are outing yourselves.

In the context of what's been going on at DU around racism charges, it's quite interesting.

[HipChick]

93. I hate to have to say this..

But I agree with you...I'm shocked at some of the responses here..

[tarheelsunc]

31. Who cares where/when she grew up?

Wrong is wrong and all this "well it's typical" talk is just excuse making.

[tularetom]

42. Racist or not, she's a repulsive human being

And I must confess to a case of terminal schadenfreude reading about her current woes.

[HockeyMom]

43. Northerner her age

She was attacked once? I had 3 instances: robbed by black male, almost sexually assaulted by white males, attempted home break in by Hispanic male. Ok, none were Asians or Natives. However, what do you see in common? Paula, girl, think about this one. They were all MALE. Females are low on the list of violent crime. If she wants to direct her anger at someone, maybe it shouldn't be racial/ethnic but more on GENDER?

[calimary]

151. From the complaint I read, I sure as hell wouldn't want to work for her.

Especially anywhere around her racist, sexist, homophobic, and perverted brother "Bubba." It's mostly complaints about his intolerable behavior, but the white female manager who brought the complaint attempted to get help numerous times from a slew of people up at, or near, the top of the Paula Deen Family of Companies - including Paula Deen herself. And she got nowhere, and nothing. That's the last company or set of restaurants where I'd want a job, if that's how they treat their women employees! And the complaints about the racist language being spoken. It wasn't 30 years ago or 40 years ago or 20 years ago. The offending "dream" wedding with the plantation/slavery theme and an all-black wait staff dressed in servants' wear, was in 2007.

http://www.atlawblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Jackson-v.-Deen-et-al.-Complaint.pdf

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

44. For those of you who still don't believe me when I say that I've witnessed racism right here on DU

some of the comments in this thread serve as evidence.

[cali]

47. they do. no doubt about it. but.

I was called a racist here in the past few days.

And I defy anyone to find anything I've ever written here that is even the tiniest bit racist.

so yes, there is racism on DU and there are also people who aren't racist who get smeared.

Not to mention the threads declaring that almost all criticism of the President is rooted in racism.

[asjr]

46. I agree with you. Paula is from the deep

South and was raised there. When she says things that sound racist to most on this thread she says nothing that others don't understand who grew up with her. She laughs when referring to her own family sometimes as rednecks. I know nothing about the person who has a lawsuit against her. Maybe it is because Paula now has enough money to make it worthwhile. There have been enough people on this thread throwing the word "racist" at her makes me believe they have never walked in shoes that belong to others.

[The Link]

50. Wow. Sorry, but Deen is a racist.

There is no justification for this.

[cali]

54. Let's see

she used the "n" word. she excuses racist and bigoted jokes. How about this?

Jackson said she was put in charge of arrangements for Bubba’s wedding, which Deen apparently said she wanted to have a “true Southern plantation-style theme.” What, pray tell, does that mean? “Well what I would really like is a bunch of little n----rs to wear long-sleeve white shirts, black shorts, and black bow-ties, you know in the Shirley Temple days, they used to tap dance around,” Deen reportedly elaborated. Alas, the wedding Deen envisioned never came to be. “We can’t do that because the media would be on me about that,” she reportedly told Jackson. In her testimony, Deen said that she actually was referencing the “beautiful white jackets with a black bow-tie” she saw the wait staff of “middle-aged black men” wearing at a restaurant she visited “in Tennessee or North Carolina or somewhere.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/19/paula-deen-uses-the-n-word-7-shocking-details-from-her-deposition.html

She's disgusting. and a racist piece of shit.

[calimary]

152. She seems to have brought a whole new meaning to the nickname "Mouth of the South."

That one used to belong to Ted Turner if I'm not mistaken. Not about racism but mainly because he was quite open about his opinions - which slanted left.

I'm having a VERY wild time reading through all the comments, especially on the Food Network's Facebook page. HOLY COW!!! It's kept me pretty well entertained all weekend!

The posts are running what seems to be about eight-to-one supporting Paula Deen and excoriating the Food Network, but I'm no mathematician. Supporters of the Food Network's response are in the minority. Interesting and illuminating. I'd guess more than a few of them are teabaggers - noting spelling, syntax, punctuation, typos and other sloppiness, and various codespeak references. She has a large Southern fan base judging from the locations on some of the posts, but there are many and from lots of different regions.

Every now and then, inevitably, somebody dumps on liberals...

Paula Deen....you guys sux, you must be a bunch of liberal righteous bunch of idiots... Bet your closets are not so clean either. Will never watch your crappy station again.

...and they complain about black comedians using the "n" word and how that's a double standard since whites catch hell for doing the same thing...

FIRE PAULA DEEN? You've got to be kidding me! Are whites the only people that have to be held accountable for racial or politically correctness? What about the Rappers that call us CRACKERS, HONKIES etc? What about the flag stompers? NO ONE EVER APOLOGIZES TO US! Give it a rest. Paula Deen stays or you can kiss me and a lot of other, WHITE PATRIOTIC CHRISTIAN'S GOODBYE!

...and they rail against the curse of pervading political correctness. Several have pointed out that Paula Deen supported President Obama - and quote that crackpot online rag breitbart.com as their source (!).

And there are just a couple of real great ones! Like this exchange:

without paula I will no longer be able to watch,recieve books ;we all make mistakes !iam sure you are all not angles. just someone looking for free money !! we love you paula!!
Like · · 2 hours ago

2 people like this.
I hope no one is an angle. Being a geometric concept is awkward.
Like · Reply · 2 hours ago

...and this exchange, one of MANY quoting the Bible and forgiveness and how the Food Network needs to forgive Paula Deen for an infraction 20, 30, or 40 years ago (never mind that the plantation wedding story dated approx 2007 and the lawsuit by a white female former manager dates back only a couple of years)...

Irony is calling the FN small minded and ignorant.
Like · Reply · 51 minutes ago

everyone of us is without sin and would like to be forgiven
Like · 48 minutes ago
Then by your logic shouldn't you forgive the Food Network. Now there's a true double standard.
Unlike · 1 · 35 minutes ago

But my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE SO FAR (and it's best if you read it aloud, and out LOUD!) is from grubstreet:

If what is being posted about you dropping Paula Dean because of something that happened in the past is as stupid as what the media is doing to her because of WHO KNOWS WHY !!!! If you are going to drop her then I think that you need to check everyone that you have on your channel and drop everyone that has had a brush with the law or a TATTOO or A WEIRD HAIRCUT or HAS SAID ANYTHING THAT ''SOCIETY DOESN'T AGREE WITH" off of your network also....I know that I have said that word plus many many many more words that I am not elated about (as a teen and early adult) so does that mean that I should be crucified for them.....NO !!!! I am sorry and have changed as an adult...I want to know why Paula can't be forgiven ?????

Sweet God in Heaven, I LOVE THAT FIRST SENTENCE!!!

And then there are the realists, well, in my opinion anyway:

Paula Deen needs to retire gracefully. There is no forgiveness for being a bigot. And who really needs another recipe for cream of mushroom soup and mayonnaise?

(and from washingtonpost.com)

Paula Deen should have been fired a long time ago for poisoning people and contributing to this nation's epidemic of obesity and type 2 diabetes with her grossly unhealthy recipes. Who could forget her "breakfast sandwich?" (a fried hamburger patty, a fried egg and two strips of fried bacon with two glazed doughnuts as buns)

[Quantess]

52. What has become of DU?

[cali]

55. This thread is shocking the hell out of me. disgusting

all those defending racism on this thread should be tombstoned It's inexcusable.

[Quantess]

57. Paula Deen's words and actions were very racist and very disrespectful.

I'm not seeing any gray area or nuance in this particular case, and I'm shocked to see people saying she wasn't all that racist.

Go ahead and say nice things about Paula Deen's other qualities if you want to, but, there is simply no getting around her stunningly racist comments that she admitted to saying, and the allegations of harrassment. That's just inexcusable.

This site is supposed to be for liberals and progressives.

[Marrah_G]

71. Jury voted 4-2 to keep this crap

[madrchsod]

78. yikes!

[Judi Lynn]

80. Couldn't believe it. Too bad we can't get only Democrats on juries. n/t

[Prism]

53. Meh, she knew better

She certainly knew enough to know she didn't want her thoughts out in the media.

What I see is a racist woman in the cocoon of wealth and privilege who didn't think she had to apologize to anybody for what she thought and did.

She was wrong.

I can sympathize a bit with people being raised in a certain time and place having anachronistic views. Hell, my Catholic parents had poisonous attitudes about gays until I came out. They learned, they're awesome now. I and others taught them.

I find it difficult to believe someone like Paula Deen was never told exactly how nasty she was being. She just plum didn't care.

[LanternWaste]

59. Was it popular to serve "Sambo Burgers", too?

Was it popular to serve "Sambo Burgers", too? Or desire to have a wedding venue with a slave-oriented motif?

Sorry, Charlie... I'm in the south, have been most of my life, and no one talk like that in public anymore. And the few times they do, they make it a damn good point to look around and see who's in close proximity.

[madrchsod]

63. she`s a repulsive human being

her southern charm can't disguise her repulsive attitude towards those she thinks are not worthy to be in the front room other than to serve her.

[Logical]

64. Total fail! And a hit and run. n-t

[Marrah_G]

65. Wow....

Your defense of racist behavior is duly noted.

[justiceischeap]

70. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this quote kinda sums it up for me

and shows me she has absolutely no sincerity in her apology and her bigotry/racism isn't limited to skin color.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/22/dining/paula-deen-is-a-no-show-on-today.html

In the deposition, Ms. Deen said that she had used a racial slur in the past, though not in the restaurant, and that she and her family did not tolerate prejudice. “Bubba and I, neither one of us, care what the color of your skin is” or what gender a person is, she said. “It’s what’s in your heart and in your head that matters to us.”

She also stated that “most jokes” are about Jews, gay people, black people and “rednecks.”

“I can’t, myself, determine what offends another person,” she said.

She can't determine that a joke about Jews, gays, african-americans or rednecks won't be offensive? Did the butter she consumed eat all her brain cells? It's common sense that these groups she outlined would be offended by these "jokes."

[all american girl]

72. She could be excused if she was 95 years old, but she's not.

She could be excused if she lived away from modern media, but she doesn't.

About 18 years ago, my husband's grandma called African Americans "colored"....she was in her 90's!!!!!! Yes, it caught me off guard, but she was in her 90's.

My mother is around Paula Deen's age, she would never, ever say anything like this. She would never think that African American men should be dressed up for a wedding to give the feeling of slaves, "shuckin' and a jivin'" for the the guests. My mom was born and raised in Iowa....in fact she stills lives there...a place not known for it's diversity.

She was held at gun point in 1986, when she admitted that she said the n-word to her husband about the attacker. I was out of high school for two years by then, that word was unacceptable at that time. Again....Iowa.

She is not some uneducated person, she is a tv personality, she knows better.

[HockeyMom]

81. I am 2 years younger

I was robbed by a black man with a knife in 1967 when I was 19. I thought he was a criminal, and a jerk, with a weapon. I never did, nor would I have thought to, address him with the N word, but then I am from NYC. Whole lot of different races and ethnicities there. Criminals are race neutral.

[all american girl]

92. I'm so sorry to here that happened to you

And my mom would've have been like....many names, but not the most horrible name. I have to say, my mom never said that nasty word...evah. You are both goof people.

[Vinnie From Indy]

77. Paula "biscuits and slavey" Dean

We shall over crumb cake!

[madrchsod]

79. double plus good!

[Honeycombe8]

88. I'm Deen's age, born & raised in segregation in the deep south. It's NOT normal to speak like that.

No, we do NOT refer to people, either specifically or in a general sense, using the N word. I have NEVER referred to anyone or the race by using the N word, despite the fact that I heard the word used occasionally, as I grew up.

My Dad still uses it. He doesn't consider it racist, either (like Deen). He uses it like a Texan would say "good ol' boy." But Dad is racist. So to him, the fact that he's not using it like expletive is proof that it's not derogatory, if you follow that reasoning. Deen is like Dad. The racism is so ingrained, but better than they used to be, that they don't even see it. They can't see outside their bubble, their own race.

[bravenak]

91. I just don't understand why anyone is surprised.

i'll take some back of the bus biscuits with separate but equal white and dark meat please. Oh, and can you throw in some hooded white sheet cake? Thx Paula.

[RILib]

94. Deen is a moron, not vicious

Viciousness is one thing, ignorance is another. I'm tired of generally harmless ignorant people being thrown under the bus because they aren't pc and grew up in another world. Half my older relatives would be under there with them, and most of them would give the shirt off their back to anyone in need, regardless of color.

[cali]

98. and you know this how? because according to the complaint in the law suit and

judging from her deposition, in addition to being a nasty racist she's a piece of shit boss and someone who is more than happy to fuck over workers from her own restaurants to smithfield which is a beastly company and which she is closely affiliated with.

No what I'm tired of? People like YOU being on Du and defending racism and racist pieces of shit like Deen.

[RILib]

111. Know what I'm tired of?

People who can't spell or form actual sentences.

[cali]

118. ooh, I'd love to play.

and you know this how? because according to the complaint in the law suit and

judging from her deposition, in addition to being a nasty racist she's a piece of shit boss and someone who is more than happy to fuck over workers from her own restaurants to smithfield which is a beastly company and which she is closely affiliated with.

No what I'm tired of? People like YOU being on Du and defending racism and racist pieces of shit like Deen.

Beyond writing in the vernacular of discussion boards on the internet, and writing "no" instead of "know", (do you actually think I don't know the difference?), I have committed no grave offenses against the language.

You picked the wrong person to try and frame as illiterate.

Pathetic, my dear new friend.

[Bluenorthwest]

95. I think she's an aggressive racist and racialist who imposed that hateful thinking into

professional relationships. Sorry, big, giant, actual racist. Plus her food is like a headstone on a plate. Who wants some high fat, high hate meal?
I shudder to think what she and her family have to say about teh gay.

[cali]

99. me too.

[Jamastiene]

125. In the deposition, she did say her assistant of many years

is a gay man, but she also, in one of her poorly put together apology videos used the phrase, "sexual preference." My teeth literally itched when I heard that part. That phrase grates on my nerves.

That's all I know about what she thinks about gay people. She does not sound like a very enlightened person at all, which is surprising considering how many different types of people she has been around through the years. You'd think she would have learned something in all that time.

[B Calm]

97. Paula fights her racism just like all of us

who was born in her era. I think she is being treated unfair!

Paula loves Jimmy Carter and I think she is a Georgia Democrat. .

[cali]

100. speak for yourself. I've never even thought of another human being in the terms that racist piece

of dog shit has. I was born in her era.

And the complaint and her deposition show just how vile and racist and sexist and nasty this vile woman is.

defending her on DU? Disgusting.

[B Calm]

101. Who here has never ever said the N

word sometime during their life?

Im not defending her, and I'm not pretending that we're all perfect like you. Just stating a fact!

[cali]

102. Never. I've never even thought it about someone.

just because you think it's natural doesn't mean it is. No, I'm not perfect and yes I have biases that I've worked life long to overcome.

[WinkyDink]

107. Me. I am 63, and have NEVER said it. I've cursed a few times (not my thing, usually), but NOT

this word.

[Starry Messenger]

150. *raises hand*

Uh, never. Even before I knew what the word referred to, I was told on no uncertain terms that it was one of the words that would get my mouth washed out with soap.

[abelenkpe]

103. All I know is

Her biscuit recipe is shit. I'm from the south and her biscuits suck.

Also suspect she's a scumbag racist but whatever....

[orpupilofnature57]

104. this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3066777

[GoCubsGo]

105. I wouldn't go quite that far...

She's a public figure. Yeah, she's on the Food Network, but still, she has a high public profile, and shouldn't be allowed to get away with this kind of shit, like the people on Fox "News" and right-wing talk radio do. Or, many in Congress. And, that's the real "story" here--that these people are allowed to spew on, while the cooking show host gets crucified for it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

117. I was wondering that too.

[WinkyDink]

109. Character revelation is never "much ado about nothing."

[steve2470]

110. My father was born in Jacksonville Florida in 1917...

and he NEVER EVER used that word. My brother and I were NOT taught to use that word, and we were taught to respect and value black people the same as whites.

You are completely wrong. Paula Deen is a racist. If my Dad was still around, he would be 95 years old, so she has no excuse whatsoever.

[Arcanetrance]

112. I vehemently disagree this can't be swept up as where she grew up and her age

My step-grandmother was born and raised in Virginia and doesn't utter words like that and she's older than Deen. My girlfriend is from Texas and so are her parents they are older than Deen as well and they don't refer to people as that word. So no I really don't think its how people from the south of that generation talk. I think it's people with racist view points talk.

[jessie04]

113. How many years ago did she use the N-word ?

Ok,she made a mistake.

She didn't kill or maim someone. She didn't commit a terrorist or racist attack.

Like I said before, everyone of us will make mistakes.

You can't ask for forgiveness if you're not willing to give it.

[txwhitedove]

114. I'm 62, raised in the South by a racist granny but taught by my mom NOT to say that word, ever.

And I never have, except in discussions about the "N" word. It IS a big deal.

[Buzz Clik]

115. The "racist" label is applied much too quickly, and often wrongly.

Is Deen a racist? We cannot say for sure.

Racism is not telling racist jokes, laughing at racist comments, or using racially charged language.

Racism comes from within, a deep-rooted emotional and psychological outlook in which a person is convinced that a race of people is inherently inferior or superior. Using the "N-word" (damn, I hate childish euphemisms) may be symptomatic of being a racist, but it is not the definitive mark of a racist. Telling racially intolerant jokes or tolerating intolerant behavior is symptomatic of being a racist, but these are not definitive, either. We cannot know the nature of a person's heart from the language she uses or her political orientation.

The big problem with calling someone a racist is that you instantly change the conversation. No longer will you be debating an important social or political or scientific issue, you will now be debating a point that can NEVER be proved or disproved. You defeat yourself when you open that argument.

My suggestion to all of you is to drop it entirely. You will never prove if Deen is a racist or not; you will never prove that politicaljunkie41910 is right or wrong. You will, however, waste a lot of time and distract from important issues.

[WinkyDink]

120. Did you read of her desired wedding dinner?

[dendrobium]

121. Distract from important issues?

I know it makes some people very uncomfortable to discuss racism. Only someone with the privilege of living their lives without ever thinking about race could say something like this. I assure you that when you are not white, every single day you are reminded in little ways that you are not quite the same. There is no escape from race. Imagine going to your job and having to endure these comments about slave themed weddings! So, Buzz Clik, I enjoy your posts usually but I think your suggestion to "drop it entirely" is coming from a very uncomfortable place. Please have some respect for those of us who have to work for and work with people who can barely disguise their contempt for us.

Using the "n" word and expressing nostalgia for slavery is racism. There is no doubt. Those of you making excuses for this and trying to minimize it need to deeply examine yourselves and try to learn and grow from this.

[Buzz Clik]

122. You misunderstand.

I am suggesting we stop calling people "racists" and stop trying to prove or disprove if these people are racist or not.

Is it not possible to vehemently condemn a "slave-themed" party/wedding without calling the hostess a racist? You can change the attitude that the slave theme is cute or novel or nostalgic without getting into the impossible task of justifying the "racist" label.

By the way, I have been to one of these God damned slave-themed weddings. It was hideous. My wife's brother was getting married, and his finacee's parents held the reception in an old Kentucky plantation house. I walked into this mansion and was greeted by an elderly black man in white dinner jacket wearing a black bow tie. Every server, bar tender, etc were all African-American men dressed like that. And the worst part? They were the only non lily white people there. Only white people were invited, and only black people were to serve us. I swept my wife out of the house and insisted we leave.

So, yeah -- I get it. I can never look at my BIL's in-laws again without total disdain that they could hold such an exhibition of racial insensitivity.

Let's continue to talk about race, acceptance, embracing our differences, etc., but let's stop calling people racists.

[cali]

132. I suppose it's possible to say that the event is racist but events can't be racists. Only people

be racists. events that display racism are created by people.


Let's call people who exhibit racist behavior and use racist language what they are, and that's racists. If they don't like it, they shouldn't behave that way.

[Buzz Clik]

138. No, what you should do is...

... point out clearly and even angrily that certain events and behaviors are racist and unacceptable. There is no denying that dressing up black men like the horrible jockey statues of old is a racist display.

When you take then next step of saying, "You are a racist," the conversation changes, and you cannot win that argument. Just leave it at, "This bullshit is racist and I won't stand for it."

I am puzzled you don't see the difference and why it's important.

[cali]

130. bullpucky on top of horseshit.

what the absolute hell?

"Racism is not telling racist jokes, laughing at racist comments, or using racially charged language".

Yes, it is. Absolutely.

What's in a person's heart is NOT the standard. Their behavior and language is.

Hard to see how you could get this more wrong.

[Buzz Clik]

134. My point is consistent with every credible definition of the term.

Your objections are based on a subjective, personal view.

You are certainly entitled to your personal opinion, but declaring the I'm wrong is not consistent with what's out there.

[cali]

136. no it's not. and you provide exactly ZERO evidence for that claim or your

claim that my objections are subjective.

[Buzz Clik]

140. You tell me that I am absolutely wrong and couldn't be more wrong...

... and the onus is on me to prove it?

Whatever you say, but fuck no.

[cali]

142. lol. fail.

[Buzz Clik]

145. Hard to argue aganist that.

I put up a lengthy and reasoned argument, to which your response was mostly "bullpucky". You demand that I need to -- what? -- provide footnotes and citations from the literature to support my argument, but your nose thumbing stands as solid.

"fail"

As I said, fuck no.

[cali]

149. actually, I've served on juries dozens of times

and I'm completely disinterested in what Maher has to say about... anything.


welcome to du, retread.

[politicaljunkie41910]

154. This will be my one and only reply because as the OP for this thread, you offered one of the few

rational responses.

First let me say that, the OP was based on what I had read to date when I posted it. Things may have transpired since then which could lead one to believe otherwise, since Deen has acknowledged using inappropriate language though that in and of itself does not not make her a racist.

Regardless of what people here may think of me or my motives, I know who and what I am. Prior to the events of this weekend I had read the transcript and any articles I saw on line related to the Paula Deen case. As a black women I wanted to know as much as I could regarding the case. I assumed I was going to read about Paula Deen, "the racist". But reading the testimony I wasn't convinced by her on testimony that she was. As you stated, telling a racist joke does not make you a racist. Laughing at a racist joke doesn't make you a racist. Racism is what is in your hear. My mother was raised in Alabama, and my husband is from the south as well. I know that there are still people in both places that say stupid things, but I chalk it up to ignorance or upbringing when I hear an older person say something that most of us would find offensive, and not necessary malice.

The more I read, I more I was fascinated by the fact that the case was brought by a white woman who claimed to have been working for five years in a racist, and hostile work environment. Paul Deen in her deposition denied the woman's claims though she acknowledged that she had used the "N" word. She said that she had heard racist jokes and laughed at racist jokes. But she said she hadn't used it recently. Her story sounded plausible. More plausible to me (In My Opinion) than the person who had brought the suit who had continued to work in a hostile work environment for 5 years and someone forcing her to view pornography and that she was upset because she has biracial nieces or nephews.

I kept wondering where were all the blacks that had be the object of this same abuse. Where were their depositions and why have they not come forth with their own lawsuit. (I understand there may be some people coming forward with their own claims now, but that's another story. Apparently they have given statements to one of Jesse Jackson's organizations, so I don't know what will come of that.) I had seen an early post on DU regarding Paula Deen and since it was several days old, I thought that rather than comment on some OP which was several days old, I would start my own with my own opinion on the matter.

I thought that everyone was jumping on the "Paula Deen is a Racist" bandwagon and I wanted to say, that as a black woman I hadn't read anything that had caused me to definitively reach that conclusion. I know that the deposition was quite long and I was doubtful that most people had read it in its entirety, and were simple going off what they read in the headlines, which didn't necessarily conclude beyond a doubt what was in the deposition.

As the prodigy of parents who were born and raised in a culture of racism but taught their children to see the good in all people, I was not willing to throw Paula Deen under the bus based on such (what I considered to be) flimsy evidence. I was looking for more, and I was hoping that DU would provide more; lead me to something that I may have missed. Instead, like DU is so good at, rather than providing evidence to support their opinion, they make ridiculous claims, imply that you are a troll and not who you claim to be, or imply that you are stupid and they are perfect.

I just wanted to let you know that I am who I said I am, and I don't think every white person who says something dumb, is a racist. My mother cleaned rich people's houses when I was growing up and I went with her on the weekends to help clean. They treated me well and taught me a lot. We weren't raised to dislike or to mistrust white people and I didn't raise my children that way either. If Paula Deen acknowledges that she has used inappropriate language, I take her at her word. Only she knows what the truth is and what was in her heart when she said it. Her life has no doubt been change forever. My initial point simply was that no one deserves to have their life and livelihood destroyed on flimsy evidence and I thought Deen appeared to be getting a bum rap on flimsy evidence. Time will tell.

[no_hypocrisy]

116. I attended Sweet Briar College 1975-79.

The college was created from a true Virginian plantation in honor of a deceased child.

It employed a lot of local residents, most of whom were African-Americans. The cooks, the servers, the housekeeping staff, the gardeners.

99% of the students were white females from upper-middle and upper social strata, debutantes if you will.

I only saw respect from all of us toward the people who worked on behalf of the college. Some of us were lucky enough to become friends with them, calling each other by first names, giving long loving hugs upon our graduation. Having Carson give his big smile first thing in the morning and asking if I'd like some eggs was the best breakfast I could ask for. Chewing the fat with Nancy over the latest episode of All My Children.

Never ever did the N-word ever show up even in passing.

While the imagery of a plantation with many African-Americans working on it in a different capacity from the Antebellum South did make one pause, it was a new era. They were just as much a part of my college experience as the professors.

[Jamastiene]

124. My aunt is 72 years old and from a small town in the south.

My mother is 63. Neither of them used that slur or any other language like it back then and do not now. They both raised me to not say it or think like that either. It is not "typical" to use racial slurs in the south. That is something that even most of us in the south frown on strongly nowadays. And not everyone in the south thought it was ok back then either. Granted, way too many did, but it is not the norm nowadays and most of us are trying to do better.

I won't be buying any more Paula Deen stuff. That much is for sure. I see nothing at all "nostalgic" about a civil war era style wedding. I've been to plenty of southern weddings and none of them involved black people dressed like slaves. That is ridiculous that she would like something like that. I am deeply offended and disgusted since finding this out about her.

You must have an strongly forgiving heart to be able to overlook something like this.

[HockeyMom]

147. Negro was the accepted word before early 60s

which today would be a semi-slur. N word was even a slur back then. The words Black and African-American did not enter the language until the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s: "Black is Beautiful", "Black Pride", "Black Power", etc. From what I can remember from then (64 years old), the term African-American came even later.

Paula would have had to be living on another planet to have not known or heard about any of this. She cannot argue a generational factor because she was a YOUNG WOMAN in the 60s when the Civil Rights Movement was in full force.

BTW, Food Network said that her contract is up next week and will not be renewed.

[ZRT2209]

126. I never ever want to hear this from anyone:

I think that Paula Deen's actions are typical of people her age who were born in the south.

too fucking bad

she has control of her own mind and her own mouth

[alarimer]

128. I agree. Clueless and stupid but not evil.

Everyone talks about it like it's the worst thing in the world.

Yes, I suppose there should be consequences for insensitivity. And there were. So I think we should let it go. And the lawsuit will determine if there was indeed a hostile work environment and there should be consequences for that.

This should be a teachable moment for people to learn to think before opening their mouths.

Yet, Rush Limbaugh, who says many, many worse things about Obama, about the Clintons, about liberals, is allowed to stay on the air. Go figure.

[lumberjack_jeff]

131. The language used by people my age who grew up in the south frequently shocks the hell out of me.

But I've seen those same people turn around and do some remarkable acts of unbiased charity.

I don't understand it, but there's a nuance here that makes me inclined to cut a tiny bit of slack.

[cali]

144. no one said that racists are incapable of acts of kindness. that they may be so

doesn't mean they're not racists.

[lumberjack_jeff]

146. One can say that they are not a racist, but you know better.

There is little value in arguing against that kind of logic.

[flvegan]

153. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.