Snowden spy row grows as US is accused of hacking China

[ProSense]

Snowden spy row grows as US is accused of hacking China

Whistleblower charged with espionage claims that US authorities accessed millions of private text messages in China

Toby Helm, Daniel Boffey and Nick Hopkins

Edward Snowden, the former CIA technician who blew the whistle on global surveillance operations, has opened a new front against the US authorities, claiming they hacked into Chinese mobile phone companies to access millions of private text messages.

<...>

Within hours of news breaking that the US had filed charges against Snowden, the South China Morning Post reported that the whistleblower had handed over a series of documents to the paper detailing how the US had targeted Chinese phone companies as part of a widespread attempt to get its hands on a mass of data.

Text messaging is the most popular form of communication in mainland China where more than 900bn SMS messages were exchanged in 2012.

Snowden reportedly told the paper: "The NSA does all kinds of things like hack Chinese cellphone companies to steal all of your SMS data."

- more -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/22/edward-snowden-us-china

I guess he's going to work hard to earn his prosecution. He may even add traitor to the mix soon.

Snowden Is Using 'Specific' Evidence of the U.S. Hacking China to Stay Out of Jail
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023015740

NSA veteran: "So he is transitioning from whistle-blower to a traitor."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023035550

Snowden is going to be prosecuted.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023068663

[flamingdem]

1. Well here we have Snowden giving information that gives the Chinese leverage

But note that he may in fact want to be a "traitor" because Hong Kong will not extradite him to the US in that case.

That carries the death penalty in the USA and is a non starter for Hong Kong.

That's just one speculation about why he's revealing this now. More likely he's gaining favor with the Chinese so that Hong Kong can keep him or allow passage to Iceland.

[FarCenter]

21. So they will not charge him with a capitol offense

(e)Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; or

(f)Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense,
(1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or

(2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793

[flamingdem]

22. So this does not carry threat of the death penalty?

As opposed to espionage

[FarCenter]

24. The last two of the charges are the espionage law charges

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/world/us-vs-edward-j-snowden-criminal-complaint/496/

18 USC 641 Theft of Government Property

18 USC 793 (d) Unauthorized Communication of National Defense Information and

18 USC 798 (a)(3) Willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person

Each of these carries a 10 year maximum prison sentence. Of course, there could be additional charges brought, and probably numerous counts of each.

[flamingdem]

25. Thanks

For a minute I forgot what the term Capitol Offense really means!

[CoffeeCat]

2. Snowden is a hero on steroids. We owe him a debt of gratitude.

If our government is spying on China or our own citizens--and accessing data that they shouldn't be accessing--that we damn well deserve to know about it.

These government officials work for "We The People." We never signed up for this. We never wanted this.

How anyone can suggest that Snowden is a traitor--is beyond me.

He is revealing to us what our government is doing behind our backs--without our permission--in OUR NAME.

Quit whining and complaining and thank this man for being courageous and brave.

NO government should be doing these things, in secret, unless that government is a dictatorship.

[railsback]

5. Because heroes on steroids pass classified information to other countries

who have no intention of offering up a reach-around.

[Katashi_itto]

17. You sound just like a conservative.

No offense, it's just an observation. There is so much certainty in your posts.


"Never be certain of anything. It's a sign of weakness"
-Dr Who

[railsback]

19. Um… ok. Then you sound like a

Cultist. So much certainty in the uncertainties.

[Katashi_itto]

32. Rigghhtt....

Keep deluding yourself.

I'm sure pre-WWII lots of Germans lied to themselves too, about their real situation.

As for cult, I am not the one worshiping the power of the govt.

[railsback]

34. How am I dueling myself?

I'm not daft enough to believe we live in a crime free society.

[Katashi_itto]

35. ?

[CoffeeCat]

26. Snowden came forward about our government spying on us...

Quit clouding the issue!

He's a hero. Just like Bradley Manning is a hero.

If you want to live in a dictatorial crazy land where our elected officials--and branches of our government--can spy on us without our knowledge and our consent---fine. You find a nice ruthless dictatorship and build a nest there.

The rest of us are sick of it.

If you can't understand that revealing government abuse of power--is a good thing--then that's your problem.

[railsback]

30. Yes, we never knew the government was spying on us

Now they will stop.

[Katashi_itto]

33. And so by that logic, we are just suppose to accept that?

[treestar]

6. Why shouldn't we spy on China?

[cali]

3. lol and you accuse me of making it up when I note that

you seem enthusiastic about extraditing or kidnapping him.

gad.

[ProSense]

7. LOL?

"lol and you accuse me of making it up when I note that you seem enthusiastic about extraditing or kidnapping him. "

I said you were making up a weird straw man. Who the hell said anything about "kidnapping him"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3068751

Friggin bizarre.

[cali]

9. nothing bizarre about it.

you can keep parroting "bizarre", but that hardly makes it so.

If HK refuses to extradite, would you support the U.S. kidnapping him to bring him back to face "justice".

Try and actually answer. A yes or no would suffice nicely.

[ProSense]

10. WTF?

If HK refuses to extradite, would you support the U.S. kidnapping him to bring him back to face "justice".

Try and actually answer. A yes or no would suffice nicely.

Didn't you just insist I would?

No, your friggin weird made up shit is just that: bizarre.

Weird.

[cali]

11. having a problem with a yes or no? why is that?

would you support the U.S. kidnapping Snowden if HK doesn't extradite?

Yes?

No?

Choose one.

[ProSense]

12. No,

having a problem with a yes or no? why is that?

would you support the U.S. kidnapping Snowden if HK doesn't extradite?

Yes?

No?

Choose one.

...I think the problem is that you're having a problem .

You went from insisting that I supported something bizarre, to now asking if I support your bizarre, made-up crap.

So let me repeat (and this time separate it into multiple sentences to prevent the continued traumatic episode you apparently are having).

No, I don't support "kidnapping" of anyone. No. No. No.

That is your friggin weird made-up shit and it's just that: bizarre.

The problem isn't me, it's you: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=152034&sub=trans






Weird.

[cali]

15. Glad to hear it. Really.

Because with your absolute and uncritical support for the administration, it's a reasonable question to ask.

Just for you:

[ProSense]

16. Actually,

"Because with your absolute and uncritical support for the administration, it's a reasonable question to ask."

...it's a bizarre question, but par for the course with you.

[Major Hogwash]

4. Snowden was charged with espionage by the United States on his 30th birthday.

Happy birthday, dickhead!!

[flamingdem]

14. .

[Spider Jerusalem]

8. Prosecution requires extradition

and if these latest revelations are true? China may not extradite, so...good luck with that prosecution.

As far as treason? No. US Constitution, Article III, Section 3.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

In all of American history only sixteen people have been convicted of treason: two participants in the Whiskey Rebellion who were pardoned by George Washington; Thomas Dorr, of Rhode Island; John Brown, and Aaron Stevens, who took part in Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry; a William Mumford, convicted of treason for hauling down a US flag, in New Orleans, in 1862 (the notoriously corrupt Union general Benjamin Butler decided to make an example of him); four conspirators in the Lincoln assassination; three American citizens who broadcast propaganda for the Axis during WWII ("Tokyo Rose", "Axis Sally", and Robert Best); Herbert Haupt, US/German dual national, convicted of treason and executed for espionage on behalf of Nazi Germany; Martin Monti, a USAAF pilot who defected to the Germans; and Tomoya Kawakita, a dual US/Japanese citizen convicted of treason for torturing American prisoners of war. That's it. Legally, there are no grounds whatever for Snowden being tried on a charge of treason. Espionage, yes, but not treason. (If treason were an appropriate charge? Jonathan Pollard would have been tried for it.)

[ProSense]

13. He will likely be extradited. n/t

[cali]

18. what makes you claim that?

article after article indicates that extradition will be difficult. are you privy to information that the rest of us don't have?

with your penchant for links, surely you can provide some evidence for your claim.

A former U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) contractor charged with spying by the United States and in hiding in Hong Kong is expected to be the subject of a formal extradition request at any time in what could drag into a legal battle lasting years.

<snip>

Simon Young, a law professor at the University of Hong Kong, said that while the first charge involving theft might readily find equivalence in Hong Kong, the latter two spying offences will likely attract "litigation and dispute" in the courts.

The timeframe for such proceedings remains unclear, but Hectar Pun, a lawyer with human rights expertise, was quoted as saying such an extradition could take three to five years.

<snip>

http://news.yahoo.com/hong-kong-silent-snowdens-fate-u-files-charges-041830621.html

[trumad]

20. He will be in the U.S by the end of the month.

Bank on it

[cali]

23. how? Extradition by the end of the month is extremely unlikely?

so how will he be in the U.S. by the end of June- a week away?

[trumad]

28. airplane

[AtomicKitten]

29. ba dum tsss

[cali]

31. bwahahaha. yeah, airplane to Moscow.

[allin99]

27. ouchie. not good. not a spy, but very bad behavior...

"the South China Morning Post reported that the whistleblower had handed over a series of documents to the paper detailing how the US had targeted Chinese phone companies as part of a widespread attempt to get its hands on a mass of data."

"The paper said Snowden had also passed on information detailing NSA attacks on China's prestigious Tsinghua University, the hub of a major digital network from which data on millions of Chinese citizens could be harvested."

that is treason.