NYT: Snowden "staying in an apartment... controlled by the Hong Kong government’s security branch"

[ProSense]

U.S. Asks Hong Kong to Extradite Leaker in N.S.A. Data Case

By GERRY MULLANY and SCOTT SHANE

HONG KONG — The State Department has asked Hong Kong to extradite Edward J. Snowden to face espionage and theft charges in the United States, officials confirmed on Saturday, setting off what is likely to be a tangled and protracted fight over his fate.

Tom Donilon, President Obama’s national security adviser, told CBS Radio News that the request makes “a good case” under the extradition treaty between the United States and Hong Kong for the return of Mr. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor whose disclosures about American surveillance programs have riveted the country. “Hong Kong has been a historically good partner of the United States in law enforcement matters, and we expect them to comply with the treaty in this case,” Mr. Donilon said.

A public battle over the status of Mr. Snowden could prove uncomfortable for the Obama administration. His revelations have provoked new criticism of the N.S.A.’s eavesdropping and data collection, and a drawn-out legal struggle could put a harsh spotlight on the tension between Mr. Obama’s pledges of transparency and civil liberties and his administration’s persistent secrecy and unprecedented leak prosecutions.

For the past week, Mr. Snowden, 30, appears to have been staying in an apartment in Hong Kong’s Western District that is controlled by the Hong Kong government’s security branch, according to a person who has followed the case and spoke on the condition of anonymity. Mr. Snowden appears to have been granted access to the apartment after seeking protection from the Hong Kong police against a possible rendition attempt by the United States, the person said.

- more -

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/23/world/asia/arrest-of-nsa-leaker-seen-as-easier-than-transfer-to-us.html

The ACLU message isn't going to help Snowden.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023069890

[leveymg]

1. I told you so.

[ProSense]

2. What did you tell me? n/t

[leveymg]

5. It's senseless for you to be proclaiming that he'll be prosecuted. He's not going to be tried.

So, move on, already and talk about relevant issues, like whether it was really a good thing for Obama to continue the process of turning America into a universal surveillance and permanent warfare state.

We're listening.

[ProSense]

11. "He's not going to be tried." Really?

OK.

[leveymg]

29. They might try an empty seat, but really, what's the point?

Actually, they can't. In a 1993 case Crosby v. United States, the Supreme Court ruled that federal law "prohibits the trial in absentia of a defendant who is not present at the beginning of trial."

[Monkie]

22. if the US and obama had been smart they would of offered him immunity

what with everyone soiling their underwear over the possibility of him leaking to the chinese, and the possibility that the chinese could disappear him at any time to get all the knowledge in his head, you would of thought they would be sending him love letters and begging him on their knees to return home.

if they can offer all the telecoms immunity for spying on the public, and google and apple and yahoo and all those other parasites that dont pay taxes, then why not him?

[cali]

3. good! great news. thanks for sharing

looking less and less likely that Snowden will be extradited- and that wasn't looking likely anyway.

[ProSense]

4. Don't count on it

"good! great news. thanks for sharing looking less and less likely that Snowden will be extradited- and that wasn't looking likely anyway."

It could very well mean a quicker process.

White House: ‘We Expect’ Hong Kong To Extradite Snowden
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/white-house-we-expect-hong-kong-to-extradite

[cali]

6. oh my position on this has much, much more evidence to back it up than yours

I've posted dozens of links for you. You can't post a single one backing up your claim. No, the link to what the WH wants is not evidence that he'll be extradited.

from the article in your op:


A senior Obama administration official suggested on Saturday that strong pressure was being applied privately on Hong Kong authorities to swiftly return Mr. Snowden. “If Hong Kong doesn’t act soon, it will complicate our bilateral relations and raise questions about Hong Kong’s commitment to the rule of law,” the official said.

But the request faces both political and legal complications.

In recent weeks, Mr. Snowden’s plight has been seized on by multiple groups: by Hong Kong’s human rights movement, by pro-Beijing activists attracted to his defiance of the United States, and by those angered by Mr. Snowden’s claims that Hong Kong was itself the target of aggressive American surveillance efforts. And with such a potent issue stirring passions here and abroad, lawyers are likely to swarm over the high-profile case. (Mr. Snowden’s legal advisers have yet to come forward.)

Mr. Snowden and his lawyers could tie up any effort to have him sent back to the United States by asserting that “his offense is a political offense,” said Regina Ip, a former Hong Kong secretary of security and a current legislator. She added that such an assertion would have “to go through various levels of our courts.” The United States’ surrender treaty with Hong Kong has an exception for political offenses.

[okaawhatever]

10. Yeah, the anti-government anti-American post 30 times a day types don't think Hong Kong will do it

because they are legally obligated to. The extraordinary rendition fits their tin foil hat theories much better. From what I've read and heard, the charges fit within the legal framework for extradition based on the agreement we have with HK. The Espionage Act includes many things, and his charges appear to be more of the theft nature than giving comfort to the enemy type. The notion that it's politically motivated and therefore exempt from the extradition treaty will be hard to prove. If Snowden does claim it's politically motivated and the HK gov't agrees to let it be decided in a trial could delay things, but the majority don't seem to think that's the Hong Kong gov't will allow that to happen.

[ljm2002]

19. "the anti-government anti-American"...

..."post 30 times a day types"...

omg now there is some irony right there.

You are aware of the post count of the person to whom you are responding, right?

[cali]

25. I suggest you do a wee bit more research

the majority of analysts think it could well take years- if ever. I've posted lots of links in other pro threads. go find them.

[okaawhatever]

13. My money says he will. He broke the law. He turned on all of his fellow nsa workers and his gov't.

That's illegal. There won't need to be any bullying. Why should there be? Either Hong Kong will live up to the treaty or they won't.

[Tx4obama]

14. An American running to the Chinese government is nothing to cheer about.

Let's keep the below link handy, we may be needing it in the near future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clandestine_HUMINT#Defector

[Cali_Democrat]

20. Some sort of sanctions might make Hong Kong scream uncle

Yep. Let's see where this goes. Breaking a treaty and flipping the USA the bird, especially when you export billions to the USA, ain't such a hot idea.

All over a twerp like Snowden?

We shall see.

[randome]

24. My guess is they will be only too happy to be rid of Snowden.

The more he and Greenwald whine about America spying on the Chinese, the more it reminds everyone of the type of spying China is itself engaged in.

Snowden does not have anything of strategic importance that we know of so I say they jettison him fairly quickly.

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[flamingdem]

31. However the Chinese govt. hyped him up as heroic

So they'll have to back off of that position if they decide to extradict.

I am thinking the decisions are being made now with phone calls between HK US and China.
Too much on the line to let Snowden get in the way.

That is, if the Chinese feel they can't get much more from him.

But I agree that the Chinese do not want attention given to their rights situation for much longer.

[cali]

7. the question is what sort of bully tactics is the U.S. employing

A senior Obama administration official suggested on Saturday that strong pressure was being applied privately on Hong Kong authorities to swiftly return Mr. Snowden. “If Hong Kong doesn’t act soon, it will complicate our bilateral relations and raise questions about Hong Kong’s commitment to the rule of law,” the official said.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

12. China Bills U.S. $1M for Spy Plane

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=80810

China Bills U.S. $1M for Spy Plane Episode - ABC News

The United States originally had intended to repair the plane and fly it out, but China said allowing the ...

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=80810

China is one of the few nations strong enough to resist... it will be interesting to see how this plays out, and since every empire has an interest in spying on their citizens they may want him to shut up, too... But they will get their money's worth first, that's for sure.

[randome]

16. I think they call it 'diplomacy'.

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[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
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[alcibiades_mystery]

8. Spit take moment

" Mr. Snowden appears to have been granted access to the apartment after seeking protection from the Hong Kong police against a possible rendition attempt by the United States, the person said. "

Oh fer fuck's sake.

[Scurrilous]

9. Anti-authoritarian hero under the protection of the authorities?

[Monkie]

17. "appears" "according to a person" who "spoke on the condition of anonymity"

seems legit to me, $80 billion of taxpayers money a year not going to waste, and the pigs at the trough have nothing to hide.

appears to have been staying in an apartment in Hong Kong’s Western District that is controlled by the Hong Kong government’s security branch, according to a person who has followed the case and spoke on the condition of anonymity

[randome]

23. Have to admit, those are good points.

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[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
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[frazzled]

21. Fits with the full-transparency advocate lining his hotel-room door with pillows

to prevent transparency regarding whatever he was saying or doing in there.

The rules only work in one direction, and exclude "me" and "Chinese" and "Hong Kong" authorities. The hypocrisy is delicious.

[randome]

15. "...unprecedented leak prosecutions..."

Every time I see something like that, I want to scream!

Every administration has prosecuted leakers. The only reason Obama is prosecuting more of them is because...there are more of them!

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[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
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[Tx4obama]

18. +100 n/t

[flamingdem]

26. Exactly. That's a line Greenwald likes to use

to confuse the mindless masses with more omg!

[flamingdem]

27. **Staying in an apartment controlled by Hong Kong's security branch?!

Strings meet puppet. If he was independent he'd be on his own. WHY would Hong Kong protect him immediately?
Why those well organized protests immediately and the enthusiastic welcome in Mainland China.

Did China just jump on it so fast? Did the HK security apparatus jump on it so fast without knowing/understanding who
they're dealing with?

Fishy I tell you.

It was all instant and automatic for governments known for beaurocracy.

While I don't think he's a spy in any traditional sense - he had his offerings in place for the Chinese.

[The Magistrate]

28. So He Is Effectively Under House Arrest, Ma'am....

A likely line of development will be 'traded for currency concessions and three dissidents to be named later'....

[flamingdem]

30. hmm. Swapping. Wonder if we have any of their spies in prison

What led you to think of currency concessions?

[ucrdem]

32. London calling

come in Security Branch. . .