So When will Dick Cheney be charged with Espionage? His Crime was the Same as Snowden’s.

[Octafish]

Fellow Democrats and DUers who aren't: Want to win in 2014? Juan Cole spells how.



This:

So When will Dick Cheney be charged with Espionage? His Crime was the Same as Snowden’s

Posted on 06/22/2013 by Juan Cole

EXCERPT...

The same theory under which Edward Snowden is guilty of espionage could easily be applied to former vice president Dick Cheney.

Cheney led an effort in 2003 to discredit former acting ambassador in Iraq, Joseph Wilson IV, who had written an op ed for the New York Times detailing his own mission to discover if Iraq was getting uranium from Niger. (The answer? No.)

Cheney appears to have been very upset with Wilson, and tohave wished to punish him by having staffers contact journalists and inform them that Wilson’s wife, Valerie Plame, was secretly a CIA operative. While Cheney wasn’t the one whose phone call revealed this information, he set in train the events whereby it became well known. (Because Cheney’s staff had Plame’s information sitting around in plain sight, Armitage discovered it and then was responsible for the leak, but he only scooped Libby and Rove, who had been trying to get someone in the press to run with the Plame story.

What Cheney did in ordering his aides Scooter Libby and Karl Rove to release the information about Plame’s identity was no different from Snowden’s decision to contact the press.

CONTINUED...

http://www.juancole.com/2013/06/charged-espionage-snowdens.html

Arrest Cheney, Bush and the warmongering traitors who lied America into war (and the banksters who profited) and we will win supermajorities in both houses of Congress -- probably win the White House in '16, as well.

[Recursion]

1. The leaker was Armitage, and Libby fell on his sword for him

For that matter, Snowden may be falling on his sword for someone else.

[Octafish]

6. Interesting fellow.

Armitage said we had evidence that clearly led to bin Laden for the attacks of September 11.

He must be keeping that secret, because I don't recall seeing it.

[Recursion]

13. Do you mean Houssein?

The evidence connecting bin Ladin is pretty solid.

I remember Armitage linking Saddam Houssein to 9/11, but that's not revealing classified information, because as far as we know that was just a lie, which is not illegal.

[H2O Man]

22. Armitage was one

of several leakers, acting in a coordinated manner by the design of the OVP.

[red dog 1]

35. Bob Woodward & Robert Novak testified they heard about Valerie Plane from Armitage

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/17112876/#.UcdzwWKJKds/

Also, Richard Armitage was one of the plotters of Iran-Contra.

[MotherPetrie]

2. K&R.

[dkf]

3. Only ordinary Americans aren't allowed to leak. The elite political types get a free pass.

[ljm2002]

10. Ain't it the truth...

...there are the laws for the banksters, and for Cheney and his ilk; and then there are the laws for the Little People.

[wandy]

14. And this may be the only important truth brought to light by all this.

[malaise]

4. Arrest Cheney, Bush and the warmongering traitors who lied America into war

and fire all the goons they left in place

[JEB]

34. That is exactly right.

There will be no healing or regaining our moral basis until we do this housecleaning.

[AzDar]

5. K & R

[BlueStater]

7. Laws in this country only apply to "little people".

He may be a slimeball but John Edwards was dead on when he said there were "Two Americas".

[Cooley Hurd]

8. We can only hope historians expose this and sort it out.

The contemporary corporate media will not do so.

[nashville_brook]

9. urinary executive --

they can piss on us any time they see fit.

[xtraxritical]

23. We've been trickled on, for sure.

[louis-t]

26. Archie Bunker called it "Tinkle Down".

[xtraxritical]

36. I watched every episode and voted for McGovern too.

[spanone]

11. silly, the elites never pay for their crimes....often they are rewarded.

[Politicalboi]

12. I say try them in an

Iraqi court too. Let them answer to the people they attacked. Then if they are still alive, try them for 9/11 too.

[PufPuf23]

15. Want the Democratic Party to prevail in 2014 and sweep in 2016?

Prosecute the war and financial criminals with prejudice and balance the economy so we all have fair and safe livelihoods.

[kenny blankenship]

16. Leon Panetta leaked top secret classified details to Zero Dark Thirty's director, Leni Riefenstahl

And that's according to a Pentagon Inspector General's inquiry and report:
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/leon-panetta-seal-leak-92263.html

Why hasn't Panetta been arrested and had his passport revoked yet?

[Myrina]

45. ^^ This, too. ^^

n/t

[liberal_at_heart]

17. K&R. also arrest the bankers that gambled with people's homes and then took their houses.

Snowden is a traitor, but the warmongers, oil profiteers, and bankers get off completely free. Typical.

[90-percent]

18. Cheney/Plame vs. Manning vs. Snowden leaks

I'm trying to get info on the cost in lives as a direct consequence of these three leaks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023068922

My first effort above was possibly the most non-read OP in DU history, so I'll give it a try riding on the coat tails of Mr. Octafish's always excellent OP.

-90% Jimmy

and for those that HAVE OUTGROWN THE ORDINARY, google "octafish" and "trout mask replica" for hours of listening pleasure.

edit - I'll save you all the trouble

&list=PLCB927B3921404642&index=22 and if you have the right stuff to get through the entire song, I suggest listening to Orange Claw Hammer next. A remarkable piece of Americana poetry

[byeya]

48. My favorite album of all time ever - The Captain was one of the first to sing about the environment

and the attacks for profit thereupon too.
Don Vliet - he turned the popular song on its head and made great art
Wonderful lyricist with an ethical environmental slant too - also liked lovin"

[cantbeserious]

19. K & R

eom

[Cleita]

20. I've been wondering out loud myself for a long time.

I think it's going to take kidnapping him and taking him to the Hague to do it. Our country won't touch him. Maybe the Iraqis could grab him when he sneaks out of the country and take him to the Hague. They have good cause to charge him with war crimes. Whether this happens or he gets charged with espionage in this country, I would be 100% behind it. He needs to be brought up as an example for any other would be demi-kings that might try to use this country's military and government for his enrichment and power.

[H2O Man]

21. Let Justice Flow

like a powerful stream.

Recommended.

[pnwmom]

24. Did he steal thousands of classified documents and take them to China and Russia?

Somehow I missed that story. Do you have a link?

[Octafish]

25. Worse. He exposed a NOC working on nuclear counter-proliferation.

Valerie Plame and Brewster Jennings & Associates were helping stop the spread of nukes from the former Soviet republics. Their CIA cover was blown so Cheney and Bush could warn the rest of the government from standing up to their war lie.

You really should learn about it, pnwmom: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/06/valerie-plame-nuclear-weapons_n_2816143.html

[pnwmom]

27. We don't know what's in the thousands of classified documents Snowden stole.

He could end up outing people and cause problems as big as what happened to Plame -- it's too early to tell. Meanwhile, Manning -- by turning over, unredacted, his thousands of files to Wikileak -- exposed any number of operatives and allies, and yet many DUers defend him.

I think what Cheney did was reprehensible but that doesn't excuse Snowden or Manning.

[Octafish]

30. Snowden and Manning released no Top Secret documents.

When Poppy Bush headed CIA, someone outted the station chief in Athens, who was assassinated a short time later. Poppy said anyone who does that is a traitor. I agree with the assessment.

That example is what I'm talking about with Cheney and Smirko. You assert Manning leaked files thay exposed agents appesrs false. To date, not a single person has been reported to have suffered injury or arrest as a result of WikiLeaks.

What you equate to that are Confidential files, memos and communiques that demonstrate the United States is a hypocritical, warmongering nation, precariously close to becoming a police state, where the government would make a NAZI blush.

That's a big difference. Missing that picture is how we've gotten so close to missing the boat.

[pnwmom]

32. We don't know what Snowden has in his thousands of documents. It's too early to know

what he has or what the effects will be.

And as for Manning . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022952174

[Hissyspit]

38. Greenwald said that Snowden specifically asked that they release no

information that would endanger national security by revealing targets or individuals. There is no evidence he has had contact with anyone from the governments of China or Russia. He has apparently only spoken to journalistic outlets.

[pnwmom]

39. "There is no evidence"? Are you kidding? How would we have evidence of who

he talked to in Hong Kong? Or who he is talking to right now in Russia?

[Hissyspit]

40. ???

[sibelian]

41. Well you either assume that he's sinister or Keith Alexander is sinister, basically.

Do you just not like blonds?

[99th_Monkey]

28. Dick "Face-shooter" Cheney is IN the Club.

Snowden is NOT in the Club.

Those IN the Club, are ipso facto above every law on the books, no questions asked;
if you don't believe me, just ask Obama, who's running interference now for those IN
the Club.

Those NOT in the Club, are "despicable traitors" ... dead meat if they even think about
exposing those IN the Club.

Got it?

[Demeter]

29. Cheney Got People Killed by Exposing Them

Show me one person who died because of Edward Snowden.

[cstanleytech]

31. To have charges brought there must be proof.

Mind you I personally believe Cheney did have his grubby little hands all over revealing Plame as an agent for the CIA to discredit her husband name but I cannot prove it as Libby took the bullet for him not that Libby really was punished as Bush then shielded him which was probably the plan from the beginning.

[truth2power]

46. To have charges brought there must be evidence....

Proof (beyond a reasonable doubt) is for juries or judges to decide.

[cstanleytech]

51. Sorry but I am not in the mood to play games and quibble over a simple word today. nt

[JoeyT]

33. They only charge the little people.

They don't have the guts to try the big ones. Not even when they admit to ordering war crimes on national television.

Edited to add:

Nation of law? Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.

[xtraxritical]

37. "I think the results speak for themselves." Ask a vet.

[silvershadow]

42. This thread is, to borrow a Cheney term, "quaint".

(Kind of like the Geneva Convention or the Constitution, can't remember which now).

[n2doc]

43. Let's face it

Nobody fucks with The Dick

[leftstreet]

44. DURec

[blkmusclmachine]

47. HA! He's TOO BIG TO JAIL, silly.

[LittleBlue]

49. Obama has made very clear that the laws aren't for all of us

The 1% needn't obey these silly laws, they are for the commoners.

[riqster]

50. + 1 gazillion

I'd say what Cheney did was even worse.

[robertpaulsen]

52. Thanks Octafish. Plame and her husband have something to say on the subject.

The NSA's metastasised intelligence-industrial complex is ripe for abuse

Where oversight and accountability have failed, Snowden's leaks have opened up a vital public debate on our rights and privacy

Valerie Plame Wilson and Joe Wilson
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 23 June 2013 08.00 EDT

Let's be absolutely clear about the news that the NSA collects massive amounts of information on US citizens – from emails, to telephone calls, to videos, under the Prism program and other Fisa court orders: this story has nothing to do with Edward Snowden. As interesting as his flight to Hong Kong might be, the pole-dancing girlfriend, and interviews from undisclosed locations, his fate is just a sideshow to the essential issues of national security versus constitutional guarantees of privacy, which his disclosures have surfaced in sharp relief.

Snowden will be hunted relentlessly and, when finally found, with glee, brought back to the US in handcuffs and severely punished. (If Private Bradley Manning's obscene conditions while incarcerated are any indication, it won't be pleasant for Snowden either, even while awaiting trial.) Snowden has already been the object of scorn and derision from the Washington establishment and mainstream media, but, once again, the focus is misplaced on the transiently shiny object. The relevant issue should be: what exactly is the US government doing in the people's name to "keep us safe" from terrorists?

Prism and other NSA data-mining programs might indeed be very effective in hunting and capturing actual terrorists, but we don't have enough information as a society to make that decision. Despite laudable efforts led by Senators Ron Wyden and Mark Udall to bring this to the public's attention that were continually thwarted by the administration because everything about this program was deemed "too secret", Congress could not even exercise its oversight responsibilities. The intelligence community and their friends on the Hill do not have a right to interpret our rights absent such a discussion.

The shock and surprise that Snowden exposed these secrets is hard to understand when over 1.4 million Americans hold "top secret" security clearances. When that many have access to sensitive information, is it really so difficult to envision a leak?

We are now dealing with a vast intelligence-industrial complex that is largely unaccountable to its citizens. This alarming, unchecked growth of the intelligence sector and the increasingly heavy reliance on subcontractors to carry out core intelligence tasks – now estimated to account for approximately 60% of the intelligence budget – have intensified since the 9/11 attacks and what was, arguably, our regrettable over-reaction to them.

The roots of this trend go back at least as far as the Reagan era, when the political right became obsessed with limiting government and denigrating those who worked for the public sector. It began a wave of privatization – because everything was held to be more "cost-efficient" when done by the private sector – and that only deepened with the political polarization following the election of 2000. As it turns out, the promises of cheaper, more efficient services were hollow, but inertia carried the day.

Today, the intelligence sector is so immense that no one person can manage, or even comprehend, its reach. When an operation in the field goes south, who would we prefer to try and correct the damage: a government employee whose loyalty belongs to his country (despite a modest salary), or the subcontractor who wants to ensure that his much fatter paycheck keeps coming?

Early polls of Americans about their privacy concerns that the government might be collecting metadata from phone calls and emails indicates that there is little alarm; there appears to be, in fact, an acceptance of or resignation to these practices. To date, there is no proof that the government has used this information to pursue and harass US citizens based on their political views. There are no J Edgar Hoover-like "enemy lists" … yet. But it is not so difficult to envision a scenario where any of us has a link, via a friend of a friend, to someone on the terrorist watchlist. What then? You may have no idea who this person is, but a supercomputer in Fort Meade (or, soon, at the Utah Data Center near Salt Lake City) will have made this connection. And then you could have some explaining to do to an over-zealous prosecutor.

On this spying business, officials from Director of National Intelligence James Clapper to self-important senators are, in effect, telling Americans not to worry: it's not that big a deal, and "trust us" because they're keeping US citizens safe. This position must be turned on its head and opened up to a genuine discussion about the necessary, dynamic tension between security and privacy. As it now stands, these programs are ripe for abuse unless we establish ground rules and barriers between authentic national security interests and potential political chicanery.

The irony of former Vice-President Dick Cheney wringing his hands over the release of classified information is hard to watch. Cheney calls Snowden a traitor. Snowden may not be a hero, but the fact is that we owe him a debt of gratitude for finally bringing this question into the public square for the robust discussion it deserves.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/23/nsa-intelligence-industrial-complex-abuse