I wasn't against Snowden and was laughing when people called him a spy but...

[allin99]

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1268209/exclusive-snowden-sought-booz-allen-job-gather-evidence-nsa

holy crap:

"Edward Snowden secured a job with a US government contractor for one reason alone – to obtain evidence on Washington’s cyberspying networks, the South China Morning Post can reveal.

For the first time, Snowden has admitted he sought a position at Booz Allen Hamilton so he could collect proof about the US National Security Agency’s secret surveillance programmes ahead of planned leaks to the media.

“My position with Booz Allen Hamilton granted me access to lists of machines all over the world the NSA hacked,” he told the Post on June 12. “That is why I accepted that position about three months ago.”

During a global online chat last week, Snowden also stated he took pay cuts “in the course of pursuing specific work”.

(just putting the info out there ya'll, don't kill the msger).

My *personal* opinion, if he had only outted the U.S. spying on Americans to us, i would say okay, but I wish he hadn'ta felt the need to out our activities regarding other countries to those other countries, ugh, like hacking into chinese computers, even though they did already know, still.

[BeyondGeography]

1. Predatorial...And now he's surprised his life has been turned upside down

From his lawyer in Hong Kong:

Mr. Snowden, who has just turned 30, comes across as intelligent, analytical and quick-witted, Mr. Ho said. But he also came to Hong Kong from Honolulu without a well thought-out plan, while overestimating how free he would be to move around Hong Kong after his disclosures and underestimating the public attention he would receive, Mr. Ho added.

“He’s a kid, I really think he’s a kid, I think he never anticipated this would be such a big matter in Hong Kong,” Mr. Ho said...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/world/asia/snowden-departure-from-hong-kong.html?pagewanted=2&hp

[longship]

5. The NYT article is a good one.

Tells quite a bit of the back story.

[BeyondGeography]

9. I remember being 29 years old and not knowing what the hell I was doing

Or what impact my actions would have in matters infinitely less complicated than this. Which is part of the reason why I couldn't get behind this kid from the get-go. Now there are plenty of people that age who are preternaturally mature and have lived through far more than people much older, but Snowden doesn't appear to be one of them.

[Glorfindel]

53. I remember being drafted when I was 20 and had had to quit college because my father died

The 18, 19, and 20-year-olds I served with were kids. Snowden is not a kid. I'm sorry. He's not. 29 is plenty old enough to be aware of consequences. If he believes he did what he did out of principle, he should be prepared to endure whatever is coming his way.

[BeyondGeography]

55. Not, apparently, if it means lack of access to a personal computer

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/world/asia/snowden-departure-from-hong-kong.html?pagewanted=1&hp

[LeftInTX]

61. I read it too. Worth the read!

[Downwinder]

2. What does NSA do? Spy

Who does NSA employ? Spies

[Quantess]

90. And there you have it.

+1

[randome]

3. And yet he still didn't have the access he claimed.

So far as 'whistleblowing' goes, Snowden is a lightweight. The most 'damning' document he managed to steal was the phone metadata warrant, which was already known.

Everything else he wants us to take his word for it. And this from a guy who was a Systems Administrator, not an Intelligence Analyst.

This guy is a fake.

[hr]
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[hr]

[allin99]

6. serious question, then why is the u.s...

going an international manhunt.

[randome]

11. Obviously because he also stole documents and apparently gave away secrets to China.

Is this another one of Snowden & Greenwald's 'exposes'? That the NSA spies on China?

None of what Snowden has said so far rises to the level of melodramatic 'whistleblowing', in my opinion. Nothing backed by evidence, that is. We are told to believe what Snowden tells us. I won't do that.

I think the guy was a spy but also a very amateur one who Greenwald used for his own purposes. Remember, Greenwald said he was in contact with Snowden in February, before he went to work with Booz Allen.

They had this planned out but in a very awkward manner. It's amazing Snowden got away with as much as he did but he has not revealed anything that we didn't already know.

So why did Greenwald & Snowden think this was worth all their trouble? I'm starting to think their sole purpose was to damage the Presidency.

[hr]
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[hr]

[cali]

27. at this point that's almost irrelevant`

he's put the issue of massive ever expanding surveillance and the national security state in the spotlight.

What he is or isn't doesn't really matter.

and I'm glad that he did.

Of course some people are fine with the national security state and massive surveillance and they support it.

[randome]

33. The only 'national security state' is what Snowden claims.

He has no evidence. He was a Systems Administrator not even in a position to know what was going on with the inner workings of the NSA.

I will take anyone's word for something this serious.

If Greenwald was half the journalist he thinks he is, he would have asked some very simple questions.

Such as: "Do you have evidence of this?" Or even "Why do you think this is happening."

Instead, all we get are Snowden's proclamations of evil-doing by the NSA.

Maybe they are evil. But why would anyone simply take his word for it?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[cali]

36. And what Binney claims and what Drake claims and what other whistleblowers claims and

what documents reveal and on and fucking on.

I've posted dozens of links to firm evidence. Other people have posted even more. YOU fucking ignore it.

[randome]

41. More claims without evidence, though.

And Drake's charges were dropped except for the one about his stealing documents, too.

You would think that in all this time, we would have some evidence of this all-pervasive spying going on.

I'm not even saying it's untrue. All I want is some evidence.

Binney and Wiebe were initially whistleblowers about financial waste. They didn't allege massive spying until their financial waste claims didn't turn out well for them. And these were Bush Era allegations, besides. A lot changed since Obama became President. Before he became President, the spying system the NSA was developing was canceled.

You would think if the 'surveillance state' was an important item, they might have mentioned it right out of the gate.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[cali]

42. There's an abundance of evidence but you're like the small child

who puts his fingers in his ears and loudly chants "I can't hear you".

it's lame.

The evidence has been posted over and over and over and over, and you just keep saying "that doesn't count".

[grasswire]

54. if he's so inconsequential, don't you feel kind of stupid...

....for spending so much time commenting about him over the last several weeks? Eh?

[randome]

56. I don't consider myself 'stupid' for asking questions.

And for pointing out that most of Snowden's claims are backed up with no evidence.

I will easily reverse my opinion on him if he shows us evidence that the U.S. has 'direct access' to the world's Internet providers or the NSA can watch our thoughts form as we type or that the NSA downloads the Internet on a daily basis.

Evidence. It's what's for breakfast. And lunch. And dinner. And...well, you get the point.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[grasswire]

58. I don't see you waiting for evidence.

I see you making assertions pulled out of your suspicions. Post after post after post of assertions, suspicions, and opinions.

That contradicts your statement that Snowden is inconsequential.

[okaawhatever]

74. Ah yes, and some people are fine with people betraying their oath, their country and

the trust of many who rely on secrecy for their safety. I already knew about the "massive surveillance", do you think China and Russia knew who all our spies are and where they were? (Something Snowden claims to have)

[hedgehog]

4. Why does this posting remind me of this guy?

another legend in his own mind......

[Peregrine Took]

30. Everytime I go to DU I see a version of this OP over and over by the same old people.

Isn't there a limit?

[allin99]

32. oh, i didn't know it was out. i've been following the snowden...

story and hand't seen this. Been reading the chinese papers and it's the first time i've read it.

and you can look back, i was never anti-snowden or pro nsa.

[Catherina]

7. I thought that was obvious lol

He was employed by an unidentified classified agency in Washington from 2005 to mid-2006, by the CIA from 2006 to 2009, when he primarily worked overseas, and by Dell Inc from 2009 to 2013, when he worked in the United States and Japan as an NSA contractor.

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-snowden-secretly-wrote-online-2013-6

That gave him 8 years to get thoroughly sickened by what he saw and make a decision to really blow the whistle but with proof. That's still a whistleblower. And one, unlike all the other ones, can't be ignored because he provided proof.

What he did is no different than what PETA ford or labor violation investigators, or any undercover operation to blow the whistle. The MIC has an army of spies, over 1.4 people with Top Secret clearances. It's high time the people had one.

[silvershadow]

13. That would be like, 1 out of every 250 Americans! Wow. Guess I will be a little friendlier to the

neighbors.

[Catherina]

16. Lol and that's just Top Secret. I don't know what the numbers for Secret are.

A lot of Humint spies (Human Intelligence) only have a secret clearance from what I read.

[Hekate]

68. F'Pete's sake. My dad was no spy, but he had a "Secret" clearance to work on a POTUS airplane

The President: Harry Truman. Dad's job: aircraft inspector-supervisor.

Woooo. All the neighbors shoulda been scairt.

[randome]

18. What do you think a Systems Administrator would have seen that horrified him?

He won't even tell us what horrified him, only a vague "I saw things."

And then the great reveal is: the legal warrant for phone data. Meh.

Wait a minute! Another big reveal: the NSA spies on China. Meh again.

Everything else depends on Snowden's word. I, for one, will not take anyone's word for something this serious without some evidence to back it up.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[cali]

29. evidently he saw a great deal according to people like DiFi

and dozens of others in a position to know a shit more than YOU do. duh.

[randome]

39. 'Evidently'? Where is the evidence?

He freely admits to stealing classified documents and running to Hong Kong. Yes, he 'evidently' had too much access. But 'evidently' he did not have access to what the Intelligence Analysts had access to so his claims of 24/7 surveillance are simply that: his claims.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[ProSense]

8. "Huh. Greenwald said he's been working with Snowden since February..."

Huh. Greenwald said he's been working with Snowden since February. He's been at BAH since March
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022984574

Snowden Helped Guardian Reporter With Secure Communication System
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022986324

[JackRiddler]

28. Hoping to get a Greenwald indictment, are we?

Or better, do you already have the talking points prepared to justify the rendition and indefinite detention without charges of Greenwald?

Because we know if it happens, you'll be there to justify it in 20+ new threads a day.

Hell, you show no sign of a limit. If they drone bomb Greenwald on live TV while he's kissing a baby at a maternity ward in Kansas, you'd still find a way not just to justify it but to call anyone who criticizes it a racist, rightwinger, Ron Paul plant, spy for China, etc.

GET THOSE TRAITORS!

[ProSense]

34. Snowden's actions were premeditated.

"Hoping to get a Greenwald indictment, are we?"

Your thinking, not mine.

"Because we know if it happens, you'll be there to justify it in 20+ new threads a day. Hell, you show no sign of a limit. If they drone bomb Greenwald on live TV while he's kissing a baby at a maternity ward in Kansas, you'd still find a way not just to justify it but to call anyone who criticizes it a racist, rightwinger, Ron Paul plant, spy for China, etc. "

Thanks for your insights.

[JackRiddler]

45. So was the creation of a criminal government.

[ProSense]

46. There is always impeachment. n/t

[JackRiddler]

49. Cute, your limited view of the state.

Criminal policies continue being developed for 60+ years but, hey, quarterbacks get switched so "there's always impeachment." This would totally rollback the surveillance-police state.

Interesting how your team didn't go for the most obvious chance at having a constructive impeachment, back in 2007.

[JackRiddler]

48. Highly transparent question.

It doesn't require much thinking to get at your obvious implication in asking it, or much experience with your posts in the style of official propaganda to know how you would react to the criminal pursuit of Greenwald - by any means. At least, as long as the pursuing administration happens to be of the Democratic Party. If Republicans do it, of course, it will be evil, as this is the operative definition of good and evil.

[okaawhatever]

73. Agreed. Should we do a count of pro and anti posts? I see the same

Snowden is a hero, anti-government crap being regurgitated on a pretty regular basis.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. This is news?

It was in the early releases from the Guardian.

[allin99]

15. the HK paper said it was the first time he...

admitted it. and they just posted it.

[Catherina]

12. About what you said about other countries. NSA was crashing critical systems in hospitals

NSA was crashing critical systems in hospitals, research facilities, universities, when they'd make a mistake hacking. Critical systems in hospitals. Wrap your mind around that on.

I'm glad he told them. And I'm waiting to see if he has anything on the US crashing the electrical grid in Venezuela so it can install another rightwing puppet.

[allin99]

17. Yeah, i hear you...

i'm still torn. i gotta read through. thanks for the info. i'll google about the systems crash.

[randome]

20. Are you going by what Snowden said?

He was a Systems Administrator. How would he know any of these things?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[cali]

31. squawk, squawk. he was a system administrator. he was a systems administrator

If he had access he'd know.. not exactly brain surgery to figure that out, but it seems to be beyond your abilities.

[randome]

37. A Systems Administrator is someone who manages the network. Fixes printers.

He was not an Intelligence Analyst. It's basic journalistic integrity (something Greenwald apparently lacks) to ask for evidence or at least to ask why he thinks the NSA is 'spying on everybody'.

Face it, no one has asked those basic questions of Snowden. We are all told to take his word for this.

[hr]
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[hr]

[cali]

40. oh fer fuck's sake. none of that means he didn't have access.

the top intelligence people say he did.

Stop pulling all that nonsensical shit out of your.... It's pathetic as hell.

The National Security Agency contractor who disclosed the spy agency's collection of data on billions of telephone calls made by Americans apparently obtained a highly-classified court order about the program during a training stint, NSA Director Gen. Keith Alexander said Tuesday.

Alexander told reporters after a House Intelligence Committee hearing that the man who's acknowledged being the source of the recent leaks, Booz Allen Hamilton information technology specialist Edward Snowden, had access to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court order and related materials during an orientation at NSA.

<snip>

http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2013/06/alexander-snowden-got-calltracking-order-during-training-166524.html

[randome]

44. All internal office documents. He did not have the access of an Intelligence Analyst.

So he was never in a position to know what data went to them and what was done with it.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[backscatter712]

21. I'm damned glad he spilled the beans.

He exposed an unconstitutional, illegal, and certainly unethical spying program that, yes, was literally hacking into hospitals.

[okaawhatever]

77. I haven't seen verification of the US hacking China's hospitals. I have seen

a report showing China hacked several NY area hospitals. Part of the Mandiant report.


Also, if the spying is unconstitutional and illegal as you claim, why hasn't scotus done anything about it? You think there's a massive conspiracy between scotus, every elected official on the intelligence committees, every military and security employee who administers it, and every attorney who oversees it?

[bemildred]

14. Apparently he was quite successful nt

[Th1onein]

19. Let me ask you something......

Does the Bill of Rights grant those "inalienable rights" only to US citizens? Is it only wrong to spy on Americans, but everyone else is fair game?

[marions ghost]

22. good question

---

[allin99]

23. my personal opinion...

is that every country spys on every country, who's he protecting? Who's he helping? a country that won't even let it's own citizens go on facebook for fear they'll communicate with the rest of the world? yeah, those are the guys you wanna help when you're concerned about people's freedoms. makes no sense.

when you're protecting the people of the u.s. who believe we have privacy, we should know that we don't.

China spys on and hacks us, and we spy and hack them. I really don't care if the chinese govt is being spied on, or that they're hacking usback, not sure why he cares and what is his point. If it were just us hacking innocent 'ol china who's not doing it to us, fine, let the people in the U.S. know we're shady for doing it, but they're doing it too, so it's not about that either.

[Th1onein]

64. That's a very bad attitude to have.

You could also say that everyone is a thief, and rationalize that it's okay to steal. You would still be wrong.

[allin99]

67. why, cuz i don't care if we spy on someone who's spying on us?

or vice versa? naw, i really don't care. i care that china is forcing abortions on people, and that we force women to carry fetuses, but governments spying on each other, don't care. some people might, i don't, don't see what's bad about that.

[Th1onein]

69. Your mama never taught you that two wrongs don't make a right?

And, by the way, it's not only governments spying on each OTHER, it's government spying on us. OUR government, who we pay, who are supposed to serve us, the public, NOT spy on us.

[allin99]

70. i never said it was right that 2 gov'ts spy on each other, i said i don't care...

didn't say whether it was wrong OR right actually. (personally, i don't like one of our citizens offering them proof any more than i would think it okay if one of their citizens came over and ratted out their own gov't, but that's just how i feel).

My gov't telling me they don't spy on me, and say i have a right to privacy and then they spy on me, DO care, don't like.

drop the personal shit about my bad attitude and my mother and either talk about the issue and offer opinion of the issue or don't answer. it's immature and unneccessary even if you disagree with my opinion.

[Th1onein]

72. Allin99, asking you if your mother taught you something is NOT personal

It's a figure of speech.

The attitude, though? Stinks.

I'm putting you on ignore.

[okaawhatever]

76. Now you've done it. They have put you on ignore. No worries, I'll put you on a friends list nt

[allin99]

85. : )

[JackRiddler]

43. "Unalienable rights" is not the Bill of Rights

It's the Declaration of Independence. (Spelled with un.)

The theory is that the Constitution grants no individual rights but rather protects those that are inalienable by limiting the government's powers to infringe upon them.

Just saying.

[Th1onein]

65. Thank you, Jack Riddler, for clearning that up for me, and for others.

The question still remains, though.

[JackRiddler]

71. Absolutely.

[jeff47]

59. The Consitution only applies to US persons

The Constitution only applies to "US Persons". Which basically means US Citizens, and non-citizens in US territory or US custody. (There's some more nuance that a lawyer could explain, but that approximation is close enough for discussion on the Internet)

So yes, "everyone else" is fair game.

[Th1onein]

66. Bullshit.

How can we say that we believe in these rights for human beings, and yet not grant the same rights to others?

[struggle4progress]

79. It's your theory that the US system of government applies to everyone worldwide?

The rest of the world might disagree

[Th1onein]

86. Human rights are the same, the world over.

Systems of government can vary. They are NOT the same thing.

[struggle4progress]

87. This subthread seems to concern the US Constitution, which is the document

establishing the US government

You seem to think the claim "the Constitution applies only to US persons" is bullshit

[Th1onein]

89. Human rights are human rights. Don't think you can take that one apart.

We cannot say that these rights are human rights, and condemn others for abusing those rights, and still stand on the idea that this abuse that WE do is right.

Sorry, the hypocrisy smells too bad.

[jeff47]

83. Because we don't believe in these rights "for human beings".

According to what we wrote down in the Constitution, we believe in these rights for human beings within US territory. The "human beings" aspect is why non-citizens have rights within the US.

But the founders gave foreign policy almost completely to the Executive branch, indicating they don't think people outside the US have rights - if they were concerned about rights, there would be judicial review of foreign policy.

[jimlup]

24. I've felt for awhile that he may be being manipulated

But perhaps his motives were "pure." Hard to tell at this point.

[allin99]

25. i look forward to hearing from him why...

give the info up to countries that don't respect their own citizens freedoms. i can't imagine he's being manipulated. i'm baffled.

[jimlup]

47. I don't think he's actually "given the information up to countries that..."

specifically. I'm not following the story all that closely because I kinda already know where I stand on the issues. Snowden is an interesting side show to the main story which is the NSA surveillance of its own citizens.

My understanding (correct me with specifics if I am wrong) is that Snowden retains the bulk of the information himself though he has shared a portion of it with the Guardian and the Washington Post. So he's only given information to countries who oppress their citizens in the indirect way of general release of information.

[okaawhatever]

78. You have way more faith in the kindness of foreign govts than I do. I cannot imagine

China allowing him to leave without taking every single piece of information he has. Ditto Russia. I even question whether Snowden asked for the protection of the gov't and to move from a hotel to a safe house or if the gov't insisted on protection at a gov't safe house.

[jimlup]

88. Ultimately we don't know... that would require that they confiscate his laptops.

Since he is still "free" and has not communicated that this has happened I don't think we should assume that it did. It would actually be a rather significant violation of Snowden or he would have to be complicit in it. While I can't rule it out I suspect it is paranoia to assume that this is what happened. I think Snowden is a "Libertarian" and views the NSA stuff as "Big Brother". Ultimately, I think he is probably right which isn't the same as saying that I endorse his breaking the law to expose it.

[Cleita]

26. How is all that privatization of our national security working out for us?

I really don't blame our President, but I do blame Congress for not taking action to reverse the abuses of the Bush Administration, one of them being the outsourcing of our government to private industry, national security being one of them. I really believe that if our spy agencies were still in government hands that they wouldn't be spying on everyone in the country but would have concentrated on more focused targets. They are still trying to do it to our Post Office. There is a lesson here. It's time our elected officials learned it.

[allin99]

35. even without blame i'm glad it's out...

Last edited Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:15 PM - Edit history (1)

(the part about them spying on the u.s.) b/c it's not a bad reminder to the people of the u.s. how much of our lives are being sucked up by our own gov't. Obama re-banded a group to watchdog the nsa (phht), may not do much, but there is renewed interest in striking down some of the patriot act, and if it happens, we'll be a whole lot better for it

[grasswire]

57. I don't blame Obama either, yet.

I don't think that Obama has ANY control over the intelligence empire and may not even be fully briefed on the scope of it. I believe General Alexander has more power than POTUS at this point.

[hughee99]

38. What does it matter, none of it's true, or it's old news, whatever we're going with this week. n/t

[pnwmom]

50. That's also where I drew the line.

Whatever his justification in bringing US surveillance to an overdue debate, he wasn't justified in spreading information about our spying around the world and interfering with Obama's efforts at diplomacy.

[pnwmom]

51. And when did he take that earlier vacation to Hong Kong?

Was he meeting with people there before he decided to take that Booz Allen job?

[DevonRex]

52. I told you guys he LIED about what be said about the collection of data on Americans.

He did. What he said had ALREADY BEEN FIXED. That's what the court ruling did.

His purpose in lying about that? To get gullible, low-information Americans on his side. Greenwald, the LAWYER, played everybody like a fucking fiddle. That was HIS doing. Fuck them both.

The REAL intent is to give all the stolen classified information to all these other countries, JUST LIKE I HAVE SAID. AND HE ADMITS IT HERE. This is fucking TREASON.

[Cali_Democrat]

60. " played everybody like a fucking fiddle"

Yup

[allin99]

62. so why are people believing that he gave no u.s. information away but did...

to the other countries? real question, not rhetorical. why not none of the information is real. and what would be his motive for just giving info to china? it's not like they could do anything for him that he could acquire in life for himself. ?

[DevonRex]

63. Easy answer. The first was to get public opinion on his side. He'll need it. For the treason

he was planning to commit as part 2 of his spree. He's been stealing from CIA, and NSA prior to this last job. And he's turning it all over to various countries, as he stated he would in his latest interview published this morning. China and Russia already have it all. Who knows who's next. Syria? Who knows WTF he's handing out and how many of our soldiers are now in danger.

If he's caught he'll face treason charges. But maybe the Libertarian types will protest and say he's a good dude. I'd spit in his face. I'm an ex Russian linguist who was in Army MI in the Cold War. Putin was in the KGB during the time I was in.

Google these
KAL 007
Operation RYAN
Able Archer

You'll get just the tiniest bit of what we lived through and why it's personal. And right now, we're dealing with Putin, trying to work out something with Syria. Funny that Snowden and Greenwald interfered now. Funny how he went to HK while we were in talks with China, too. Come on, anybody could figure this out.

[okaawhatever]

80. You mean sweet kind heroic Snowden planned to release info about old programs of

America spy programs the very week Obama was slated to finally confront China on their hacking? When the Mandiant report, among others, gave proof of china's military involvement. I mean, we all just thought it was coincidence their new aircraft looked EXACTLY like ours. We thought their medical device industry had the exact same ideas as ours. C'mon, China the bastion of freedom and liberty only was stealing something like 50 billion a year in our intellectual property. I'm pretty sure they just accidentally hacked into both Obama and McCain's campaign computers. I wasn't worried one bit about their hacking into our nuclear weapons program or our power grid. I mean, hey it's not like they'd do anything bad, right?

Didn't you love the timed release of info about the UK "massive spying" aka Echelon, which had a book written about it years ago? Just in time to embarrass for the G8 Summit.

[DevonRex]

84. He's a traitor of the worst kind. This could mean loss of life in Syria.

And god knows where else.

[Cha]

75. Michael Tomasky agrees with you, allin..

"Snowden is a Spy"..

That's a spy. Period. True, he did not do the usual spy thing of selling the information. Lots of spies haven't been in it for the money. Start with Philby and his circle and go on from there. It seems quite obvious from his own words that Snowden is a sort of post-ideological Philby. If he's committed to an -ism, it's probably a vague kind of techno-post-nation-ism in which the nation state is perforce a tyrannical entity and must therefor become a thing of obsolesence. That, along with a healthy dose of me-ism.

A jerk. But more importantly, a run-of-the-mill lawbreaker. The "whistleblower" case was always a little bit dodgy. Whistleblowers expose criminal acts. He just didn't like his country's policy. That's fine. Millions agree with him. But we can't live in a world where citizens are allowed to do what he's done without repercussion.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/24/snowden-is-a-spy.html

And, John Aravois..

Snowden plans more leaks about US spying abroad, will let foreign press decide if leaks endanger Americans

I’m sorry, but it is incredibly dangerous what this man is now doing. This goes far beyond whistle-blowing. Edward Snowden has a vendetta against US intelligence operations overall, and has made it his one-man mission to expose classified US operations around the world without regard to the harm he may cause America or Americans.

Edward Snowden is no whistleblower, and he’s no hero either.

http://americablog.com/2013/06/snowden-plans-more-leaks-about-us-spying-abroad-will-let-local-press-decide-whether-to-publish.html

[davidpdx]

81. Intent, no you can't touch him for that

He's an international superhero now. Right up there with Batman, Spiderman, and Superman.

[GeorgeGist]

82. I missed the memo ...

explaining why spying on China and Russia is good for me.