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My formatting isn't the best. If this really interests you, I suggest the original link. I also had to snip some excerpts for copyright reasons[hr]
Sat Jun 22, 2013 at 09:11 PM PDT
US & NSA Accused of Criminal Privacy Violations in Dozens of Nations - Snowden Blowback
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...
Actually, it's hundreds of millions of computers, and billions of phone calls, that are routed through the NSA's data collection traps -- from every corner of the world -- every minute of the day. Even though most of them are not communicating to anyone in the US, the Internet's current architecture allows the NSA to capture them all. Potentially, that means every single soul on earth who uses electronic communication is being tracked.
Other nations understood this immediately. They are well aware that their citizens have been caught in the illegal NSA dragnet. This is a completely unacceptable act by the US -- just as it would be if the world's Internet backbone was located in Russia and Moscow was mining the rich personal data of every American citizen.
The United States has inadvertently declared itself to be a rogue, predatory Police State. When the story broke, officials in European capitals demanded immediate answers from their US counterparts and denounced the practice of secretly gathering digital information on Europeans as unacceptable, illegal and a serious violation of basic human rights.
There were heated and outraged discussions at the G-8 summit in Ireland. Eric Holder was flown to Brussels for questioning by the European Union. When Holder left, they were even more outraged. The Germans openly liken the United States actions to the actions of the Cold War-era Stasi.
Here's what the Nations of the World are saying to each other:
The United Nations:
Concerns have been expressed over surveillance regimes adopted by some states without adequate safeguards to protect individuals right to privacy, Pillay told a UN counter-terrorism conference in Geneva.
If our goal in countering terrorism is to provide for the security of individuals and preserve the rule of law, such practices are... counterproductive, she said.
::
UN Under Secretary General Jeffrey Feltman said: If we allow compromise on human rights, we are not countering terrorism but letting it get its way.
When the principles enshrined in the human rights instruments are disrespected, extremism tends to thrive, said Feltman, who heads the world bodys Counter-Terrorism Implementation Task Force Office (CTITF).
Switzerland:
Switzerland this week asked Washington for explanations about Snowdens revelations, especially on an alleged CIA blackmail operation to spy on its banks while he was stationed in Geneva as a diplomatic attache from 2007 to 2009.
Would we have a better society if honest citizens were subjected to constant surveillance by governments, with all the abuses that this may bring? Burkhalter said. In Switzerlands view, the answer is definitely no.
In Switzerland, at least one lawmaker has demanded that Internet giant Google be forced to be more transparent about the user data it retains.
Germany:
Reports about the apparent sophistication and long reach of US surveillance have also caused anxiety in continental Europe, particularly in Germany, where there are memories of the former East Germanys Stasi intelligence service.
The countrys data commissioner has said he expects the government to put a stop to any American surveillance of German citizens, while worried lawmakers from across the political spectrum have said they want to know more.
...
This affair looks like it will be one of the biggest scandals in data sharing ... Merkel cannot just look away and act like nothing has happened, added Renate Kuenast, a senior Green lawmaker.
Peter Schaar, Germany's federal data protection commissioner told the Guardian that it was unacceptable that US authorities have access to the data of European citizens "and the level of protection is lower than what is guaranteed for US citizens."
...
I am amazed at the flippant way in which companies such as Google and Microsoft seem to treat their users data, he told the Handelsblatt newspaper. Anyone who doesnt want that to happen should switch providers.
Brussels and the European Union:
The fact that U.S. government agencies may be accessing this data could result in many European organizations being unable to satisfy their data protection obligations.
...
Fears about the security of data held on U.S. servers have already been a major factor in slow European adoption of "cloud" computing services, in which computing-intensive applications are done by central providers in large server farms.
You hear more concerns in Europe than in the US, about the Patriot Act in particular. PRISM just enhances those concerns, said Mark Watts, a partner in London law firm Bristows specialising in privacy and data compliance.
The main players that are mentioned are much more on the consumer cloud end... but it may be that emotionally it adds to the concerns about US cloud providers, said Watts, whose clients include several large US internet firms.
...
Ireland:
Holder said the US government could not force Internet companies to provide information on individuals unless there was an appropriate and documented foreign intelligence threat. Holder added that there was an extensive oversight regime on the spy programmes.
He took a stern tone on Snowden, saying that, "This case is still under investigation and I can assure you that we will hold accountable the person responsible for those extremely damaging leaks.
But the 29-year-old Snowden is expected to resist any bid to extradite him from Hong Kong.
Italy:
It would be contrary to the principles of our legislation and would represent a very serious violation.
Australia:
Unease over a clandestine US data collection programme has rippled across the Pacific to two of Washingtons major allies, Australia and New Zealand, raising concerns about whether they have cooperated with secret electronic data mining.
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"There is a massive global trend to cloud services," said opposition communications spokesman Malcolm Turnbull, noting that the vast majority of providers were U.S. firms.
...
Australias influential Greens party called on the government to clarify whether Canberras own intelligence agencies had access to the NSA-gathered data, which according to Britains Guardian newspaper included search history, emails, file transfers and live chats.
Well examine carefully any implications in what has emerged for the security and privacy of Australians, Australias Foreign Minister Bob Carr said in a television interview on Sunday, when asked whether Canberra had cooperated with Washingtons secret initiative.
New Zealand:
Prime Minister John Key said Tuesday his country doesnt use foreign intelligence agencies to circumvent local laws and illegally spy on its citizens.
But Key declined to say exactly what help New Zealand does get from agencies like the US National Security Agency. He said any help the South Pacific nation has received from foreign intelligence agencies would have been lawful and in the countrys national interest.
Key was responding in Parliament to questions raised by opposition lawmakers. Theyve raised fears the NSA may have spied on New Zealanders under an intelligence-sharing alliance known as Five Eyes that includes the US, Canada, the UK and Australia.
Revelations in recent days about US spy programs that track phone and Internet messages around the world have created an international uproar.
Canada:
In 2011, I was on a panel, organized by the security company RSA, with two retired National Security Agency directors, Michael Hayden and Kenneth Minihan. During the course of our debate, I raised concerns, as the only non-American on the panel, that their plans and preferences for having the NSA secure cyberspace for the rest of us were not exactly reassuring. To this, Minihan replied that I should not describe myself as "Canadian" but rather "North American."
As jarring as his response was, the fact of the matter is when it comes to communications, he's right. Practically speaking, there is no border separating Canadian from U.S. telecommunications -- though that's not true the other way around. Primarily, this one-way dependence is a product of history and economics. Canadians' communications are inextricably connected to networks south of the border and subject to the laws and practices of the U.S. over which we, as foreigners, have no say or control.
Norway:
Finland:
What we have in our hands now is the first concrete proof of US-based high-tech companies participating with the NSA in wholesale surveillance on us, the rest of the world, the non-American, you and me, he said.
But he added there was little that individuals could do, with precious few alternatives to the popular services offered by US firms Facebook, Google or Apple.
The long term solution is that Europe should have a dot.com industry just like the United States, which would give us economic benefits but more importantly would make us independent of the wholesale surveillance of the US intelligence agencies.
Hong Kong:
In a joint letter to the US president, they (Pro-democracy lawmakers Gary Fan and Claudia Mo) said Snowden may have done liberal democracy a service by stimulating serious discussion in many countries of the extent to which surveillance is acceptable.
Obama should consider letting him go, Mo said in a press conference, while urging Beijing not to interfere if an extradition case goes to the Hong Kong courts.
This is shocking because while the US has accused China of hacking, they have also been doing the same thing, particularly when Hong Kong ordinary citizens are involved, Fan told reporters.
...
Chinas Internet security chief, who told state media that Beijing has amassed huge amounts of data on US-based hacking.
Air Force Col. Dai Xu, known for the hawkish opinions he voices on his Sina Weibo microblog, wrote: I have always said, the United States accusations about Chinese hacking attacks have always been a case of a thief crying for another thief to be caught.
...
The ACLU and Yale Law School's Media Freedom and Information Clinic filed a motion on Monday asking for secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court opinions on the Patriot Act to be made public in the light of the Guardian's revelations.
...
Finally, the ACLU is going to court.
On Monday it filed a motion with the "Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) seeking the release of secret court opinions on the Patriot Act's Section 215, which has been interpreted to authorize this warrantless and suspicionless collection of phone records.
And on Tuesday it filed a lawsuit charging that the program [the NSA's mass surveillance of phone calls] violates Americans' constitutional rights of free speech, association, and privacy.
Executive Summary:
As we can see, the American Bubble has no awareness or perspective of how Edward Snowden's whistleblowing has affected the entire world and the future of its digital communications infrastructure. Americans think it is all about them -- but the fact is, the global community doesn't care how the US treats its own citizens. This is completely immaterial to the sovereign security crisis the world is actually facing as a result of Snowden's revelations.
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In the US, where the concerns of other sovereign nations are not a factor, pressure is growing at the White House to explain whether there is effective congressional oversight of the domestic spying programs revealed by Snowden. This is a conversation that the government cannot have with the American people. Every time they make a statement, the global blowback gets worse.
The administration hopes that the American public will be easily distracted by the drama of charging Snowden with espionage and the years long extradition kabuki. This way, they can stonewall the people's inquiries with "ongoing case" and "national security" tropes -- until the new season of American Idol begins again in September.
Personally, I don't believe that any elected figure at the Federal Government has the will or the authority to stop the NSA, even if that was a desired goal. It was a different America when over-reach like like J. Edgar Hoover's could be somewhat contained. Everything changed after September 11th, which was certainly a fortuitous event for the Neocons and the signers of PNAC.
....
If you are inside the US, it really doesn't matter. The immediate future is set. The ball is in the global court. American businesses will be the first to feel the blowback..
The NSA revelations pose an immediate economic problem for US cloud providers on the international market -- the big name telecoms. Richard Stiennon, chief research analyst at IT-Harvest, wrote in Forbes that this kind of, "vast foreign and domestic spying & threatens the global competitiveness of U.S. tech companies."
Internet traffic to the United States from Asia, Africa and even Latin America has been in decline, a trend that is almost certainly going to accelerate as those regions ramp up their own network exchange points and local services to minimize dependence on networks and media services under US control.
The global imperative is to contain and isolate the criminal NSA data-mining exploits solely to the United States. That is, to quarantine this Orwellian infection to North America.
That's what the world is talking about today.
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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/23/1218102/-US-NSA-Accused-of-Criminal-Privacy-Violations-in-Dozens-of-Nations-Snowden-Blowback
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Next time the US screams copyright..there will be a break out of laughter.
Another effect...the TTP negotiations will be...complicated
Alameda
(1,895 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Alameda
(1,895 posts)didn't understand how that got to be TTP? These things get so confusing.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And right now EU governments are ...how to put it gently? Pissed off at us?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Taverner
(55,476 posts)The rest of the world is getting a little upset about Neoliberalism as well
ReRe
(10,597 posts)Our minds work alike. This is what popped into my mind... what the affect would be on that
other secret group in our government right now, i.e. the TPP. I bet you they cram that thing through Congress ASAP to escape the affects of the global revelations of the cozy relationship between USA's NSA/Business cabal. Personally, I hope the world revelation of NSA's nefarious deeds causes the TPP not to pass. Hope. Living on hope.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)Copyright laws are substantially the same throughout the world.
Where the US is out of step - which these statements show - is with respect to privacy. For the last 13 years my primary client has been a global corporation. Things having an impact on individual privacy that no one even gives a second thought to in the US are extremely costly civil - and in some instances criminal - blunders in most European countries.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)TakeALeftTurn
(316 posts).
FirstLight
(13,359 posts)can you say 'busted'...and by that I mean the US Govt in general has gotta look pretty bad for this...right?
we can no longer try to pretend we are the 'good guys' of the planet fighting for everyone's 'freedom'...
ReRe
(10,597 posts)"American Exceptionalism" has been placed where it belongs. In the trash. Who are we to say we are the "greatest nation in the world"? All of my life I bucked when I heard politicians use it. We are no better than ANY nation on this earth. Also: "God Bless America." When Kate Smith sung it, yes, I loved it. Because I felt America did do good for mankind after WWII. But now? We haven't done so good for the world in the last 40 years or so. We could have SAVED the world! But nooooooooo, we had to go the greedy "I got mine", "Me-Me-Me", "Greed is Good", "globalization" route. There's never enough for them. They have to have more and more and more. And in the process, the citizens of the world have less and less and less.
Uncle Joe
(58,342 posts)Thanks for the thread, Catherina.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)xiamiam
(4,906 posts)to stop this, we deserve what we get. I don't think I ever anticipated in my life that we would be at this juncture.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)We are at a crossroads I don't think many bargained for. How the US handles this is critical.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Since the USPA was released.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)--yes you could see the writing on the wall then, but how many thought it would actually be this bad?
Must have more transparency and accountability & public protections in this whole process. And soon.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)ReRe
(10,597 posts)... sure moved fast, didn't it? When did that go through, in 2003? 10 years, and look where we are. Down the effing hole, all the way around.
TheKentuckian
(25,023 posts)WestStar
(202 posts)try to justify the whole mess by saying we were "only" tracking foreigners.
THE ENTIRE REST OF THE WORLD ARE FOREIGNERS FOR THE CRIPES SAKE!
Sorry for shouting.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Civil rights group says GCHQ and NSA has targeted it illegally
Liberty asks official tribunal to investigate whether its communications have been intercepted by government spooks
Richard Norton-Taylor, security editor
The Guardian, Tuesday 25 June 2013
...
It has made an official complaint to the tribunal set up by the 2000 Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (Ripa), a statute which the whistleblower Edward Snowden has shown is wide open to abuse.
Liberty, which used to be known as the National Council for Civil Liberties, has been targeted in the past, notably by MI5. It now believes its electronic communications and those of its staff may have been unlawfully intercepted by the security services and GCHQ.
It has asked the investigatory powers tribunal set up by Ripa whether GCHQ has used the NSA's Prism and GCHQ's Tempora systems to bypass the formal British legal process regulating access to personal information. Liberty claims the right to respect for private and family life, enshrined in Article 8 of the Human Rights Act, has been breached.
Certificates signed by the foreign secretary under section 8 of Ripa now seem to allow GCHQ to get round the restriction that only "external communications" that is, to or from foreign countries can be intercepted, because there is no way of distinguishing which messages drawn from the cables are external and which are entirely domestic.
Foreign secretaries have intercepted communications in ways far beyond what the law intended, Liberty argues. It says it is concerned that Britain's intelligence agencies have been able "to evade checks and balances and monitor people in the UK". It adds: "They may be treating internet communications as international rather than domestic to evade closer scrutiny and receiving material from their US partners to evade scrutiny altogether".
...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2013/jun/25/liberty-gchq-nsa-target-illegal
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... I have wished that Snowden would let the rest of his whistle blow. But, since it is so much for the human mind to comprehend, maybe it's best this way? To dribble it out?
informative, thanks!
adric mutelovic
(208 posts)It's fine if the person isn't an American citizen, some Americans say, without asking whether the US Government isn't abusing its powers in regard to these searches.
Foreigners are people too. Those suspected of being terrorists (real suspicion, not the BS that FISA approves with a rubber-stamp all the time) abroad should be spied on. Emphasis on "real suspicion".
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)Thank you Catherina
railsback
(1,881 posts)All these countries go 'who? what? me?' ROFL.
Number23
(24,544 posts)These guys have diplomats, a military and secrets just like we do. The idea from that Kos diarist that everyone is mad because we are doing the exact same thing that they are doing is bizarre.
I was expecting alot of sturm und drund in this OP and didn't get anything even resembling that. In the real world, this is what's going on at least here in Australia - http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/security-it/australia-gets-deluge-of-us-secret-data-prompting-a-new-data-facility-20130612-2o4kf.html
People need to read and not just swallow what some are feeding them here. Does anyone seriously, HONESTLY think that every single one of those other countries doesn't have something similar in place? This is an important issue and the Patriot Act has simply got to go. But some of the BS being trotted out around here does nothing but make this place look even more unhinged than usual.
railsback
(1,881 posts)though I would prefer using 'dumbassery'
sibelian
(7,804 posts)So you're now just inventing an imaginary spy apparatus in every other country in the world that nabs people's phone data so as to make America look good?
?
Number23
(24,544 posts)Yes, you're right. The United States is the ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WHOLE WORLD that spies on other countries. Not only that, if you close your eyes real tight and completely ignore the link I posted in my previous post, you will remain blissfully unaware that not only do other countries spy on each other, they USE OTHER COUNTRY'S SPYING INFORMATION AND TECHNOLOGY again to SPY ON OTHER COUNTRIES. The link I posted says PLAIN AS DAY that Australia is using the information from PRISM in its own spying capabilities.
But hey, if you're only here to be spoon fed tripe by a group of posters with a clear agenda and shoot down anything and any one that puts forth any other information, you knock yourself out! Better you than me.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)his garage and is a high school dropout. Maybe Linkasaurus Rex should invest in Rosetta Stone and get busy unleashing the dreaded blue linkies!
cheers!
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)"Shit just got real".
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)The President wanted us to hold his feet to the fire. Apparently we couldn't apply enough heat; maybe the rest of the world can.
xiamiam
(4,906 posts)the rest of the world is saying take care of it within your own borders. We don't have the political leadership at the moment to do that. Pitiful and frightening at the same time. Just look at the posts here on du which distract with gossip about Snowden or Greenwald. We're just too fucking stupid to address the problem and many wont even admit that Obama is culpable. Maybe he cant change it but why cant a good faith move like firing Clapper occur. No one in our govt is telling us the truth about this and they just cant wait to lock up Snowden.
There's lots to talk about ..private contractors, wasted money, profiting off war and surveillance much less violating the constitution. Even here where folks should know better..its the black magic of gossip. I hate that so much because that's what it is. We look like fools.
thank you
SHRED
(28,136 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,023 posts)Now, we must hope they all remember to press their own governments as well and make it a global push.
China and the US are too entwined and seem to be melding philosophically, mostly going for the worst parts en route to a hell of an evil clusterfuck. Maybe, nothing complex or even active just a borrowing of ideas and approaches to make hay on some long term goals to perfect already effective systems for those ambitions.
This could be turn out to be a better than average chance to move the needle in a world wide way on this critical civil liberty and in turn other natural rights would assert themselves.
Wouldn't be easy and most likely would have unintended and unexpected side effects but not much is worth more and it will be pretty tough not to advance the understanding that we are all in this together.
What a powerful possibility! No matter how plausible there is potential of some sort and real growth is in it.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)system which is HUGE and has the entire globe's financial as well as SIGINT intelligence in it. Or France's Frenchelon. Oh no. He left all the other nations' programs intact and crippled US.
Cheer on. Whoopie.
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)Onyx is relatively mild as far as SIGINT collection ops go. That, and totally useless.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)But yes, I was having fun with sarcasm. Jesus, they fell for all Snowden's bizarre claims. I was working up to a trap on Luxembourg FININT and you had to go and put a stop to it. I was gonna have the Vatican Swiss Guards in full regalia take over the world by the end with the Pope as the real Wizard of Oz. DAMMIT!!!
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)....so we CERTAINLY don't believe it exists for feriners...
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)...but now they have the proof.
K&R!!!
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Response to Catherina (Original post)
avaistheone1 This message was self-deleted by its author.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Says who? Says you?
You're just going to make stuff up now?
ReRe
(10,597 posts)K&R
Well, I wonder when this thread will be locked. We'll see if it lasts until I punch the "post my reply" button. (That is what has happened to me several times this week.)
Thank you so much for this OP, Catherina! I thought PO had a nervous look on his face when he was over at the G8 get-together. I had a hunch at what it was about, but had no idea what had gone on behind the scene. Now I know for a fact what happened. The world is pissed! "We are going to get it one of these days." I've been saying that for many years.
Yeah, it's Constitutional Amendment time again. We need to get money out of politics and throw that Citizens United crap out the door for one. And then a 21st Century FDR 2nd Bill of Rights, including one on PRIVACY, since they went around the 4th Amendment.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)US Servers? I'm sure they will be looking into it now.
Spying on the whole world. What arrogance. As if we ruled the world. Maybe now the puppets in Europe will be ousted and replaced with people who are not beholden to Goldman Sachs, like Merkel eg.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)The servers aren't really the main problem, it's the links between them, the relays that are being tapped.
Venezuela and Cuba jointly installed an underseas fiber cable operational since Feb 2011 for their secure communications and now they've opened it to Jamaica and I don't know who else. You know how that wiley Castro never trusted the US. Their fiber optic link is even called the ALBA-1 with more to come throughout the ALBA bloc.
I am certain China will be only too happy to help out, just as they're helping build an alternative to the Panama Canal that the US uses to try to control commercial flow and enforce its embargos.
And the Cloud storage the US was betting on to make a gazillion bucks under the pretense of providing a *secure* place for business all over the world to store & share their sensitive communications? That just went down the drain.
I don't have those articles handy but there's been a lot of talk among French and German tech companies to do just that to secure their business and private communications.
tblue
(16,350 posts)from the rest of the world. How ironic. We are blinded by our presumed "exceptionaism," but no one else is favorably impressed.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)--led by a bunch of narcissists and sociopaths. Arrogant bullies.
America needs a big correction and this is a good start.
I at what America has come to stand for around the world. I take hope that this will cause some needed changes.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)We were spying on the people, here and abroad, in the least intrusive manner possible.
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)Abusive systems are not sustainable-- they either change or self destruct.
Meanwhile the planet is heating up and money needed to prepare and adjust is being diverted to those contributing to social, planetary and humanitarian damage.
People all over the world know what's up and know there is no time for this bullshit.