Hayes Challenges Greenwald: Snowden Undermines Defenders If He Goes To Nations That Hate Free Press

[ProSense]

Chris Hayes Challenges Greenwald: Snowden Undermines Defenders If He Goes To Nations That Hate Free Press

by Josh Feldman

Chris Hayes believes that the information Edward Snowden released about secret NSA surveillance is something the public is better off for knowing, but as he told Guardian journalist Glenn Greenwald on his MSNBC show today, he is concerned about Snowden’s recent international activities. He brought up Snowden’s admission that he took a job with the contractor Booz Allen Hamilton to collect more information on the NSA with the express purpose of exposing more information, and expressed his personal concern that Snowden may end up in a country with a leader not generally considered a “beacon of openness.”

Greenwald told Hayes he has not spoken to Snowden since he boarded a flight from Hong Kong to Moscow. Hayes asked Greenwald about Snowden’s motivations in wanting to release the surveillance information. Greenwald insisted “most of our focus” should be on the programs Snowden exposed and members of the Obama administration lying to Congress, and that should not be conflated with the discussion over Snowden’s motivations.

Hayes made it clear he thinks the information Snowden has released is “vital” and that it’s ultimately better to know than now to know. However…

“I am worried that if he ends up on the balcony of Raul Castro at some point in the next week, it will be as if everyone who has been championing the revelations has walked out onto a limb that they are now standing on with, that is then going to be sawed off behind them, because now, Mr. Snowden the whistleblower is in the hands of someone like, say, Castro, or someone else who people generally do not view as a beacon of openness.”

Greenwald clarified that Cuba is not Snowden’s ultimate destination, saying that the NSA whistleblower will likely end up in Eduador. However, he maintained that it shouldn’t make a difference how Snowden ends up, and the bigger question should be on why someone like Snowden feels the need “to go and flee” the United States after leaking this information. He concluded, “Whistleblowers have no chance in this country.”

Watch the video below, courtesy of MSNBC:

<...>

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/chris-hayes-challenges-greenwald-snowden-undermines-defenders-if-he-goes-to-nations-that-hate-free-press/

Greenwald: I Didn’t Even Know Snowden’s Name Until He Was In Hong Kong
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023085699

[flamingdem]

1. A decent line of questioning

and Greenwald pivoted to Ecuador as a better alternative.

Now Rachel is building an argument about whether any nation would return someone who is accused of espionage when everybody does it.

[DevonRex]

2. He said Ed needed MORE docs. He had worked at CIA and NSA but needed MORE

docs to paint a more complete picture (or something like that - just from memory). I took that to mean he stole from CIA too. But I can't play the video, if that is indeed a video in the story.

[BumRushDaShow]

3. Kick!

[L0oniX]

4. "Nations That Hate Free Press " uhm ok ...he shouldn't come to the USA then.

[Cha]

19. Leaker Snowden should come back and take responsibility

for his actions. but, he won't.. he's on the run and I see in some reports he's thinking Ecuador would be comfy for him.

Ecuador: Pres. Correa says he won't allow marriage or adoption rights for gays and will veto any gender identity laws

•He denied his government was pushing for marriage equality and highlighted the constitutional ban he once called unnecessary saying that no other type of partnership could ever be considered a marriage except for that between a man and a woman.

•He acknowledged there were current efforts in the national assembly to pass a gender identity law but mocked the legislator introducing the bill and promised to veto the bill if it ever reached his desk.

The shock and disappointment among leading Ecuadorian LGBT rights advocates was palpable on the social networks and many took to Twitter to demand an explanation from Correa on the eve of his inauguration."

http://blabbeando.blogspot.com/2013/05/ecuador-no-to-marriage-equality-no-to.html?spref=tw …

Of course, that won't matter to Snowden.. why should he care about others' rights as long as he has what he wants. Fucking libertarians.

[longship]

5. Useful, informative interview. R&K nt

[ProSense]

21. Thanks. n/t

[OilemFirchen]

6. Greenwald:

Okay, just for a change of pace, I'm not interested in ME being the story.

[dkf]

7. Oh and which of those "free press" countries won't attempt to send him back to be tortured?

Irony is that should be us, but it isn't anymore

[ProSense]

8. Well, if they weigh strawmen arguments, that would matter.

ENDING TORTURE = Three Torches

• Ordered an end to the use of torture and cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment, withdrew
  flawed legal analysis used to justify torture and applied the Army Field Manual on interrogations
  government wide.
  
• Abolished the CIA secret prisons.
  
• Says that “waterboarding is torture” and “contrary to America’s traditions… contrary to our ideals.”
  
• No reports of extraordinary rendition to torture or other cruelty under his administration.
  
• Failed to hold those responsible for past torture and other cruelty accountable; has blocked
  alleged victims of torture from having their day in court.

http://www.aclulibertywatch.org/ALWCandidateReportCard.pdf

[dkf]

10. Bradley Manning's treatment was cruel and inhuman, UN torture chief rules

The UN special rapporteur on torture has formally accused the US government of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment towards Bradley Manning, the US soldier who was held in solitary confinement for almost a year on suspicion of being the WikiLeaks source.

Juan Mendez has completed a 14-month investigation into the treatment of Manning since the soldier's arrest at a US military base in May 2010. He concludes that the US military was at least culpable of cruel and inhumane treatment in keeping Manning locked up alone for 23 hours a day over an 11-month period in conditions that he also found might have constituted torture.

"The special rapporteur concludes that imposing seriously punitive conditions of detention on someone who has not been found guilty of any crime is a violation of his right to physical and psychological integrity as well as of his presumption of innocence," Mendez writes.

The findings of cruel and inhuman treatment are published as an addendum to the special rapporteur's report to the UN general assembly on the promotion and protection of human rights. They are likely to reignite criticism of the US government's harsh treatment of Manning ahead of his court martial later this year.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-manning-cruel-inhuman-treatment-un

[ProSense]

11. Well,

Juan Mendez has completed a 14-month investigation into the treatment of Manning since the soldier's arrest at a US military base in May 2010. He concludes that the US military was at least culpable of cruel and inhumane treatment in keeping Manning locked up alone for 23 hours a day over an 11-month period in conditions that he also found might have constituted torture.

"The special rapporteur concludes that imposing seriously punitive conditions of detention on someone who has not been found guilty of any crime is a violation of his right to physical and psychological integrity as well as of his presumption of innocence," Mendez writes.

...that is not an Obama administration policy. Secondly, Bradley Manning put the focus on the treatment prisoners, civilian and military, have endured for decades in this country.

Where was everyone defending the rights of other prisoners who received the same treatment? Did anyone claim the U.S. Government was torturing people over these decades prior to Bush?

Conflating that with the claim that Snowden will be subjected to torture by the administration is bogus.

[dkf]

12. Because they intend to be nicer to Snowden than Manning?

Lol. Gimme a break.

[JaneyVee]

16. Federal courts are generally nicer than military tribunals.

[bobduca]

17. What if the OP promises Snowden that he wont be tortured?

will that suffice?

/insert pictures of Obama's family

[okaawhatever]

20. Using a civilian who leaked info would be a better comparison. There were no

claims of torture or political pressure on the trial of John Kirikaou. Just his day in court.

[dflprincess]

13. "...that is not an Obama administration policy"

I forget, who's the Commander-in-Chief?

[ProSense]

18. What? n/t

[Andy823]

9. I see a problem

"...and the bigger question should be on why someone like Snowden feels the need “to go and flee” the United States after leaking this information. He concluded, “Whistleblowers have no chance in this country.”

Maybe I missed something but didn't Snowden "go and flee" the country "before" he "leaked" the information?

[Cha]

14. First of all, Snowden isn't a "whistleblower" .. he's a spy. He's

admitted that.

And, yes, the leaker did run before he leaked.. and got the job at Booz Allen with the specific intention of spying and stealing classified docs.

[Andy823]

24. Yep

Greenwald's remarks just seem to be "hype", trying to make this whole thing into more than it really is.

I have a feeling that when all the "facts" come out, it will show that there were others pushing Snowden on. I don't think Snowden is going to take all the heat on this by himself.

[ProSense]

15. Yes,

"Maybe I missed something but didn't Snowden 'go and flee' the country 'before' he "leaked" the information?"

...the stories were printed after he fled to Hong Kong.

[warrior1]

22. Thanks ProSense

[ProSense]

23. You're welcome. n/t

[SidDithers]

25. DU rec...nt

Sid

[Progressive dog]

26. ^^K&R^^

Thank you
"Chris Hayes Challenges Greenwald: Snowden Undermines Defenders If He Goes To Nations That Hate Free Press"
It amazes me that Snowden still has any American defenders left, outside of the Paulites and their ilk.

[sibelian]

27. Defenders of what? Is the US at war with Russia?

.... ?

[randome]

28. S'okay. Hayes will be in good company with Maddow under the bus.

It's a very big bus.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Bonobo]

29. No he doesn't -because it is not about him.

Not sure if it is possible to get you to see that --or indeed even if you DID see that that you would admit to seeing it.

But...it is as plain as plain can be.

It is not about Snowden.

[ProSense]

30. Sure it

No he doesn't -because it is not about him.

Not sure if it is possible to get you to see that --or indeed even if you DID see that that you would admit to seeing it.

But...it is as plain as plain can be.

It is not about Snowden.

...it is: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023090058

And you even rec'd that thread.

[midnight]

31. If America has a free press, why are we spying on them?

"Today, we learned of the Justice Department's unprecedented wholesale seizure of confidential telephone records from The Associated Press. These actions shock the American conscience and violate the critical freedom of the press protected by the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights." — NAA President & CEO Caroline H. Little on DOJ seizure of AP phone records."
https://ms-my.facebook.com/NewspaperAssociationOfAmerica


http://www.naa.org/News-and-Media/Press-Center/Archives/2013/Caroline-Little-Comments-on-Justice-Department-Seizure-of-AP-Phone-Records.aspx