Tell me why the US has 5x more prisoners per capita than China

[Bonobo]

and then we can start to discuss which country is more "free" or "better".

[Democracyinkind]

1. In China, prisoners cost money.

In the US, they are a source of income for others.

(Or more accurate - in China, prisons are paod for by taxes, just as in the US. But the US has an industry that gets richer and richer with every arrest.)

Not that inprisonment in China is without its own peculiar problems...

[pam4water]

22. I'm not sure that is true. They force prisoners two work 16 and 18 hour days at the Chinese prisons.

It's just the Chinese government not a private corporation is making the money over there. Lets not forget the times that Chinese official were picking prisoners for execution based on the organ types. So government officials could get transplants when needed.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/17/china-organ-donations-executed-prisoners_n_3292966.html

I think the larger prison populations here in the US is tied to the "war on drugs" and possibly racism. It started with Nixon's southern strategy and Nixon increasing the number of outlawed drugs. I guess people will put up with a large prison population if there is either the presentation of justice or the idea that only the other group will be prosecuted.

[Democracyinkind]

25. True.

But I consider the war on drugs as a consequence of privatized/militarized policibg in the US.

And your point about prison labor is well taken. Although we too take part in that practice. Also, I am not convinced about the economics of chinese prison labor. Considering their wage levels they could probably produce more cost efficient by hiring private workers (no upkeep)..

As to the organ-thing, we know it happens but we can't be sure how wide-spread it is. There's some hints that this is an essential feature of the global trade in organs, but there isn't much hard data on it. I was thinking about that when I alluded to china havibg its "own peculiar problems".

[justanidea]

2. China greatly underreports their incarceration rates.

Political prisoners/those held on administrative detention are not included in their statistics.

[Bonobo]

3. Do you have a link that substantiates that? nt

[justanidea]

11. Id have to dig for one.

I took a Comparative Justice class at my university last semester and China's underreporting was discussed. However I dont have the text book anymore.

[JustAnotherGen]

4. China's punishment for drug offenders

In China:

According to the law, ‘persons who smuggle, traffic in, transport or manufacture opium
of not less than 1,000 grams, heroin or methylaniline of not less than 50 grams or other narcotic drugs of large quantities’ can be sentenced to death.2 Under the legislation, there are two specific elements that make a sentence of death more likely to be imposed for drug offences.
One of the elements of the legislation that prejudices the accused is that it employs a quantitative model when assessing whether the offence reaches the threshold of severity necessary to impose the death penalty. In practice, this means that the purity of the drug is not taken into consideration, but instead that all substances are treated the same regardless of their content or harmfulness. According the law,

http://www.humanrightsanddrugs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/IJHRDP-vol-2-2012-BI.pdf


In America:

http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet

Racial Disparities in Incarceration

African Americans now constitute nearly 1 million of the total 2.3 million incarcerated population
African Americans are incarcerated at nearly six times the rate of whites
Together, African American and Hispanics comprised 58% of all prisoners in 2008, even though African Americans and Hispanics make up approximately one quarter of the US population
According to Unlocking America, if African American and Hispanics were incarcerated at the same rates of whites, today's prison and jail populations would decline by approximately 50%
One in six black men had been incarcerated as of 2001. If current trends continue, one in three black males born today can expect to spend time in prison during his lifetime
1 in 100 African American women are in prison
Nationwide, African-Americans represent 26% of juvenile arrests, 44% of youth who are detained, 46% of the youth who are judicially waived to criminal court, and 58% of the youth admitted to state prisons (Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice).
Drug Sentencing Disparities

About 14 million Whites and 2.6 million African Americans report using an illicit drug
5 times as many Whites are using drugs as African Americans, yet African Americans are sent to prison for drug offenses at 10 times the rate of Whites
African Americans represent 12% of the total population of drug users, but 38% of those arrested for drug offenses, and 59% of those in state prison for a drug offense.
African Americans serve virtually as much time in prison for a drug offense (58.7 months) as whites do for a violent offense (61.7 months). (Sentencing Project)

I'm going to go out in a limb and say China doesn't have as many Caucasians buying drugs so fewer people go to jail for selling them a dime bag.

[bemildred]

5. All those private prisons need inmates. nt

[nineteen50]

17. There is a crap load of money to be made in the

war on drugs. We need to take a very close look at our law enforcement, court, prison complex.

[stillwaiting]

23. All of those multinational companies need cheap prison labor too.

Forced labor camps are very, very good for the bottom line!!

[geek tragedy]

6. China has less crime? Also, they put political dissidents

under involuntary psychiatric care.

Also, the Communist Party there is the supreme legal authority and can overrule courts.

Or, you could just freaking talk to anyone who's left China.

[randome]

7. What is China's execution rate compared to ours?

And how can you trust any statistics coming from a country that controls the flow of information?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[JustAnotherGen]

8. See up thread

For Example - Drug crimes that get "certain people" put away in the US for a bunch of years appear to be death penalty offenses.

[Progressive dog]

31. The number of executions in China is a state secret

but incarceration rates are enormous in the USA.
Most prisoners are not in Federal prisons, they were tried and convicted by state governments. The incarceration rate in the USA varies between states, so a change will not be imposed by the Federal government, it has to come from state by state changes.

[bike man]

9. Have there been any reports coming out of China concerning human rights

violations via sweatshops, exploitation of workers (especially children), students as laborers, etc?

I think I've read some threads on this very topic right here. That sort of thing must be included when discussing "free" or "better", don't you think?

[avebury]

10. The prison system in the US is becoming more and more

a growth industry in the private sector. In addition, there is no real move to rehabilitate prisoners. Furthermore, there is no real movement to identify societal problems that result in so many people becoming offenders and developing ways to help people to succeed in life instead of grinding them down into the ground. Some companies make money just running private prison facilities and the prisoners become a source of cheap labor.

[Squatchr]

12. Randome

Hey randome,

Which informat89n - controlling country are you referring to, China or the US?

[malaise]

13. Private prisons are profitable for $2,000 Alex

Duh!

[maddezmom]

16. True and China has the highest rate of executions in the world.

They also take the perp walk to a new level.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/01/china-execution-parade-tv

[panzerfaust]

14. Because we are Five Times as Free?

[MindPilot]

15. Short answer: for-profit law enforcement.

But, in the US, while people get unreasonably harsh race-based sentences for manufactured crimes, China just shoots them.

I think which is better or worse is the wrong question. Both places are incredibly fucked up.

[Ikonoklast]

18. Because if you are guilty of even a minor drug offense in China, you get executed.

As soon as they find you guilty, (and they invariably do) an appeal is asked for and immediately denied, they take you out back of the cortroom and shoot you in the back of the head with a .22 caliber pistol.

At one time they used to then bill your family for the cost of the pistol round used to execute you; that was how your loved ones knew you were dead.

Not sure if that's how it still works.

Dead people aren't counted as incarcerated or as inmates.

[ProSense]

19. China threatens death penalty for serious polluters

China threatens death penalty for serious polluters
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/19/us-china-pollution-idUSBRE95I10D20130619

A rare look at China's death row

A death row prisoner in the prison in the city of Wuhan in 2003 gets red nail polish to match outfit. The following series of photos were allegedly taken across two days, and offer a rare look at death row in China, which is believed to by far execute more prisoners annually than any other country.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-202_162-10010534.html

[treestar]

30. How dare you make a blue link to prove something!

[Tgmr55]

20. It's the war on education

The republicans war on education and the war on pot which
A) ensure uneducated fodder destined for low wage jobs
B) creates criminal class for,the for profit prison industrial complex
C) provides news stories for the Fox infotainment complex
Just saying

[Cal Carpenter]

21. The New Jim Crow. The school-to-prison pipeline

Institutionalized racism rearing its ugly head. Again.... or should I say still?

http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice/school-prison-pipeline

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Jim_Crow

[berni_mccoy]

24. They are much more generous with death for lesser crimes.

[graham4anything]

26. Because of the inane 2nd amendment. No other nation allows 82 people a day to day because of guns.

and shortly I hope that zimmy from florida becomes a lifetime denizen without a chance of parole, to the max IMHO
after a guilty verdict.

No one is free as long as the 2nd amendment stands the way they reinterpreted it to stand

And if Smith Vs. Maryland is said to not include current thingydingys,
then well, it goes without saying that any and all guns/bullets of 2013 were not included
back then.

Sooooooooooooooooo, if one don't like Smith Vs. Maryland as law, then hey we all agree, let's reinterpret the second,
just as soon as 2018 and a new court IMHO and let's get rid of the inane guns/bullets in the hands of anyone but
local,state and federal police and remember, militia=nationalguard.

[treestar]

29. Excellent point

Do the Chinese have the "freedom" to have guns in such numbers?

Also individuals do not have cars at such rates, so DUIs, driving on suspended license, are going to be fewer if any at all.

[leveymg]

27. The penal systems of both countries are a crime against humanity. Bad and badder.

[BlueJazz]

34. We humans create societies that have little or no support for the abused, mentally ill, and other...

..."broken" people and then spend huge amounts of money to Fix them by sending them to live with other broken people.

[treestar]

28. It would be a lot more complex than that

Entirely different systems. You are comparing apples to oranges. At least those here are in jail after a trial, for a definite term, and based on laws that were duly enacted, with the right of appeal. Mere numbers don't mean it was less just.

[still_one]

32. is that picture of Tibet, oh, lets not talk about that, or the other ethnic groups in China

[Soundman]

33. What happened around 1978?

Check out this chart. Quite alarming really. It does not include those in "jail."