“It’s Beneath Our Dignity As Human Beings”
Email from Rep. Alan Grayson:
Martin Bashir: Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Alan Grayson of Florida .... Congressman, if I might begin with you, [National Security Agency Director] General Alexander today revealed that this information helped prevent separate attacks on the New York subways and the New York Stock Exchange. Has what you've heard from him today, and what you heard the President say about these programs, has any of that assuaged some of your criticisms?
Congressman Alan Grayson: No, it hasn't. What we're talking about specifically is the fact that the NSA is keeping a record of every single telephone call that you make, every single phone call that I make, every single phone call that every American makes. What he failed to do is to show that that kind of basically "Big Brother is watching you"-type surveillance is necessary, or even that it helped in any of those situations that he described. Similarly, with regard to the PRISM program, the document that was released in the leak indicates that there are e-mails that are being transcribed, VoIP (which is the content of telephone calls), there are pictures that are being downloaded from Apple, from Google, from Microsoft, and this has been going on for seven years. No, I'm sorry. To say that they've done their job reasonably well overall, and prevented terrorist attacks, does not mean that they have to induce this level of intrusion to keep us safe. It's a disconnect....
Martin: Okay, Congressman, aren't you being as counterfactual as the NRA when you invoke North Korea and Nazi Germany? I mean, the NRA says a bill which prohibits a gun registry is actually an echo of Hitler, and of course you've mentioned the Nazis in connection with the NSA.
Alan: Martin, let me ask you, how do you feel about the fact that the Government is keeping a record of every single phone call that you make? Are you happy with that, or are you unhappy with that?
Martin: Well let me, if you wouldn't mind sir, I... I... I... I'm merely here to ask you certain questions, and our viewers have absolutely no interest in my view. They're interested in your view as an elected Member of Congress, and responsible Member of Congress, and what I'm asking you is, do you think you were being as counterfactual as the NRA by invoking Hitler and North Korea?
Alan: Martin, you are completely missing the point. The point is that we're taking measures that are not correlated in any sense with our safety, and even if they were it would be beneath our dignity as human beings. That's what this is all about. All right, listen. You could always make people safer by taking extreme measures. If, for instance, we lowered the speed limit to 10 miles per hour, people would be safer. If we outlawed knives and forks, people would be safer. If we made everybody fly on the airlines naked, people would be safer. None of those things corresponds to my sense of human dignity, and I think I'm not the only one who feels that way....
Martin: Mr. Grayson, do you find it a little bit galling to see conservatives who embraced these programs and, in fact, far worse, and now they suddenly have a problem with this because, of course, there's a Democrat in the White House.
Alan: Well, yes, but again, that's beside the point. This is not about President Obama. This is not about Snowden. This is about us. This is about our conception of how we want to live as a free people. And again, it grossly offends me to have the government surveilling individuals' e-mails, their photos that they post online, every single telephone call that they make.
That is not my sense of the kind of country I want to live in. That is not America. It's irrelevant whether people are putting this on President Obama or not. It's about us.
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It is about us.
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