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Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:18 PM

 

anyone who thinks there isn't a disinformation campaign being conducted against Snowden

is hopelessly naive.

and don't give me that shit about how I've been reading too many spy novels or listening to Alex whatshisface.

It's the first thing that anyone competent at the NSA or wherever would do. Hell, it's the first thing I'd do. We live in the age of appearances and setting the narrative.

That isn't to say that Snowden is a hero or that some negative things about him aren't factual, but it is to say that we really can't know what is or isn't true.

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Arrow 107 replies Author Time Post
Reply anyone who thinks there isn't a disinformation campaign being conducted against Snowden (Original post)
cali Jun 2013 OP
arely staircase Jun 2013 #1
Whisp Jun 2013 #3
arely staircase Jun 2013 #6
mhatrw Jun 2013 #98
sibelian Jun 2013 #25
Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #2
NoOneMan Jun 2013 #4
JEB Jun 2013 #76
Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #5
sibelian Jun 2013 #26
Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #38
sibelian Jun 2013 #42
Th1onein Jun 2013 #53
Dragonfli Jun 2013 #71
zappaman Jun 2013 #7
Enrique Jun 2013 #8
L0oniX Jun 2013 #16
KittyWampus Jun 2013 #31
sibelian Jun 2013 #41
DirkGently Jun 2013 #51
HiPointDem Jun 2013 #90
Dragonfli Jun 2013 #77
truth2power Jun 2013 #72
sheshe2 Jun 2013 #85
L0oniX Jun 2013 #93
AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #22
Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #60
Whisp Jun 2013 #9
grasswire Jun 2013 #11
Whisp Jun 2013 #13
grasswire Jun 2013 #17
Whisp Jun 2013 #19
grasswire Jun 2013 #20
Whisp Jun 2013 #24
sheshe2 Jun 2013 #84
grasswire Jun 2013 #88
sheshe2 Jun 2013 #89
sibelian Jun 2013 #46
Whisp Jun 2013 #48
sibelian Jun 2013 #57
KittyWampus Jun 2013 #34
sibelian Jun 2013 #47
JI7 Jun 2013 #12
Whisp Jun 2013 #14
Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #43
sibelian Jun 2013 #28
Whisp Jun 2013 #30
Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #59
nineteen50 Jun 2013 #68
mhatrw Jun 2013 #100
Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #10
sibelian Jun 2013 #36
baldguy Jun 2013 #15
grasswire Jun 2013 #18
sibelian Jun 2013 #37
Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #21
sibelian Jun 2013 #39
sheshe2 Jun 2013 #49
sibelian Jun 2013 #106
Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #52
Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #66
mhatrw Jun 2013 #101
Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #102
L0oniX Jun 2013 #23
railsback Jun 2013 #29
sibelian Jun 2013 #40
RedCappedBandit Jun 2013 #27
backscatter712 Jun 2013 #32
Link Speed Jun 2013 #44
backscatter712 Jun 2013 #73
Th1onein Jun 2013 #58
backscatter712 Jun 2013 #75
arely staircase Jun 2013 #62
ljm2002 Jun 2013 #33
kentuck Jun 2013 #35
Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #45
sibelian Jun 2013 #55
Marr Jun 2013 #50
markiv Jun 2013 #95
FarCenter Jun 2013 #54
randome Jun 2013 #56
Th1onein Jun 2013 #61
sofa king Jun 2013 #105
Narkos Jun 2013 #63
pnwmom Jun 2013 #64
Incitatus Jun 2013 #65
HiPointDem Jun 2013 #91
L0oniX Jun 2013 #96
MrMickeysMom Jun 2013 #67
MrScorpio Jun 2013 #69
freedom fighter jh Jun 2013 #70
truth2power Jun 2013 #78
Dragonfli Jun 2013 #80
sheshe2 Jun 2013 #74
ucrdem Jun 2013 #82
sheshe2 Jun 2013 #83
L0oniX Jun 2013 #97
mhatrw Jun 2013 #103
sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #79
ucrdem Jun 2013 #81
sheshe2 Jun 2013 #86
ucrdem Jun 2013 #87
Savannahmann Jun 2013 #92
markiv Jun 2013 #94
boilerbabe Jun 2013 #99
LiberalAndProud Jun 2013 #104
Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #107

Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:21 PM

1. what is the disinformation exactly?

he didn't run off to China and Russia with two stolen laptops full of US secrets?

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:25 PM

3. I think it was Four stolen laptops of secrets.

 

that may well end up harming real people.

that's disinformation! four! four!

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Response to Whisp (Reply #3)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:29 PM

6. I stand corrected

nt

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:42 PM

98. or not. n/t

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:54 PM

25. Well... if THAT was the disinformation...


it would be a little bit peculiar. Because he DID go to Hong Kong. And Russia.

Did he go to China as well? I missed that bit. It's all so dramatic and confusing!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:23 PM

2. Yup. You stick with that! I think some others may be proven "naive", but not who you think.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:28 PM

4. Character assassination is not the same as disinformation

 

Every bit of info we are being presented with may be factual (I don't know) AND also part of a pretty evident character assassination campaign.

What I do know is that there is a very active, powerful campaign to discredit Snowden and keep this issue focus on who is he rather than what he may be revealing.

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Response to NoOneMan (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:20 PM

76. Now that is exqctly what I see happening.

 

He blew the lid off the privatized "security" schemes. They can't defend their actions so all they can do is attack the messenger.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:29 PM

5. Snowden is a scumbag, criminal, you can't soar with eagles when you dine with buzzards.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:56 PM

26. Now, now, don't hold back.


Tell us how you really feel.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #26)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:04 PM

38. This is the starter course.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #38)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:09 PM

42. ...


...WAITER!

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:28 PM

53. Meh.....computer says no.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:15 PM

71. It's all about the eagle! this ones for you!!!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:29 PM

7. hahahahahahaha

I miss UNREC.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:31 PM

8. why would anyone deny it?

The government's top people lie blatanty to Congress under oath, what would keep them from anonymously smearing Snowden, who they openly hate?

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Response to Enrique (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:44 PM

16. Some people keep trusting the gov ...like a battered wife keeps going back to the beater.

 

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:58 PM

31. and some liberals fall for ratfucking… like the fools they are.

 

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #31)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:09 PM

41. And some further still have a tendency to repeat the same thing over and over again...


As if motivated by nothing mroe than a generalised sense of having been thwarted, reflexively spurting out the same talking points continuously like molluscs spurting mucous into the ocean...

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #31)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:27 PM

51. How bout giving the "ratfucking" theme a rest for a minute or two?


It doesn't get any more convincing with repetition. Plopping it into every thread comes across as a bit batty.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #51)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:28 AM

90. insiders can't stop with the inside baseball. their concern is solely about which 'team' wins, not

 

what the general public really cares about.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #31)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:22 PM

77. What is the root of your apparent beastiality fixation? Do you even know who ratfuckers were?

The Nixon Committee for the Re-Election of the President (CRP or "CREEP", a private non-governmental campaign entity, used funds from its coffers to pay for, and later cover up, "dirty tricks" performed against opponents by Richard Nixon's employee, Donald Segretti. Segretti famously coined the term 'ratfucking'.

CREEP ran the show, and were also responsible for The White House Plumbers, sometimes simply called the Plumbers. A covert White House Special Investigations Unit established July 24, 1971 during the presidency of Richard Nixon. Its task was to stop the leaking of classified information to the news media. Its members branched into illegal activities working for the Committee to Re-elect the President, including the Watergate break-in and the ensuing Watergate scandal.

The irony is, in your ignorance you use CREEP "dirty trick" analogies to point at the victims of the new White House plumbers. You are actually describing the neo-liberal conservative authoritarian hobbyist plumbers wielding pipe wrenches to bash whistleblowers while posing as progressives posting smears calling the leakers "ratfuckers" of all things as well as traitors, racists, and all around "scumbags" on progressive boards.

Projection much?


You do realize your posts merely serve to remind me of the parallels between now and the last time "plumbers" were called to stop leaks to the press:

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:18 PM

72. Great analogy! n/t

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #16)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:25 AM

85. Some people keep trusting SNOWDEN...

like a DEVOTED wife keeps going back to CHEATING spouse~

A Simple twist of words~

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #85)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:56 AM

93. Doesn't change the fact that this government has lied to us over and over.

 

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Response to Enrique (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:51 PM

22. Lie blatanty to Congress? Even after this top-level guy swore to tell the truth?"

 



You're right.

No one should believe that they have any moral qualms against anonymously smearing Snowden.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:46 PM

60. Maybe same reasoning why Snowden lied through his hiring process, and just because others lie

Is not a defense for Snowden.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:33 PM

9. Snowden did it to himself.

 

or are you suggesting that the IRC chats are all really made up stuff done by the NSA to discredit the noble heart?

Snowden is an asshole social security hating Ayn Rand loving Ron Paul money giving asshole.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:37 PM

11. your breathless attacks say more about you than him.

Seriously.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:40 PM

13. seriously, holding this kind of criminal to lofty titles says what then?

 

It's tough to prepare for The Egg. Some will hold on forever. There is no shame in admitting you have been wrong, if more did that it would be a better world, wouldn't it.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:44 PM

17. so, you have been wrong? nt

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Response to grasswire (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:46 PM

19. Snowden is a thief, criminal, traitor to his country. I am not wrong to say that.

 

and kind of daft too.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:50 PM

20. there you go again...

Judge, jury, and executioner!

And the verdict is issued without any trial, without any evidence, and without any due process.

It's a bit like the queen in Alice In Wonderland. Although the queen didn't do armchair psychology IIRC.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #20)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:52 PM

24. he did admit he got the job in order to steal...

 

but twist away.

it's kind of interesting to see it from my angle, what you are doing.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #20)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:17 AM

84. there you go again...

And the verdict of Sainthood has been issued without anyFacts, without any evidence, and without any due process.


Hmmmm~

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #84)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:21 AM

88. if you don't know the difference...

.....between a saint and a flawed person who nevertheless deserves our Constitutional protections while he awaits his fate, then you reveal a great deal.

Once again: "Beware those in whom the urge to punish is strong." -- Nietzsche

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Response to grasswire (Reply #88)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:06 AM

89. I do know that Snowden is flawed

I'm not the one that has claimed him hero~or Saint~

When he stops running and turns himself in he should have equal protection under the law



FYI see post #20 I changed a few words in their post~ I see nowhere that I was advocating the urge to punish him~ Why do you?

Once again: "Beware those in whom the urge to punish is strong." -- Nietzsche


Good bye~

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Response to Whisp (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:20 PM

46. What is this weird thing you've all got about eggs?


Always with the eggs.

Perhap you have a fondness for eggs?

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Response to sibelian (Reply #46)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:21 PM

48. always? are you the Eggman? n/t

 

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Response to Whisp (Reply #48)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:36 PM

57. I'd have expected some other euphemism by now, I suppose...


But there you go.

Personally I think the entire narrative is getting a little scrambled.






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Response to grasswire (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:59 PM

34. breathless? How is an attack typed on the internet 'breathless'?

 

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:21 PM

47. an ATTACK?


Why are you ATTACKING PEOPLE?!?!?!??!?

Ooooooooh, you're MEAN.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:39 PM

12. it was suggested in another thread that Snowden did that to cover for himself from the NSA

 

and how it was very clever of him to have faked all of that so they owuldn't be on to him or some shit like that.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #12)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:42 PM

14. wow. that's desperate. n/t

 

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Response to Whisp (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:12 PM

43. not to mention batshit bizarre.nt

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Response to Whisp (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:57 PM

28. Gosh! He gets worse and worse with every post.


What do you think of his girlfriend?

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Response to sibelian (Reply #28)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:58 PM

30. I think she's Polish and strips floors for a living.

 

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Response to sibelian (Reply #28)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:44 PM

59. Have you noticed

that the people who have raised Snowden to sainthood status are the only ones who are posting replies about his GF, his pizza preferences, etc.?

It's a juvenile attempt to equate legitimate questions about who Snowden is, and what his motives are, with some undue curiosity about his personal life.

And. It's. Not. Working.

But don't take my word for it - do a web search for such banal comments, and then check who is posting them. It's not those with valid queries about the man; it's his ardent supporters, who are literally spamming discussion threads with this BS rather than admit that no one is the least bit interested in such trivia.


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Response to Whisp (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:25 PM

68. Who just happened to

expose a lying spying government program.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:45 PM

100. OHMIGOD, some guy who is beside the point posted some dumb shit on the internet

5 years ago!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:35 PM

10. hahahaha

 

You're funny.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:00 PM

36. ......




Perseverence is a wonderful thing.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:44 PM

15. Anyone who accepts without question the portrait of Snowden that Greenwald has painted

 

is beyond naive, and has obviously never had to deal with the slightest bit of douchebaggery in their life.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #15)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:46 PM

18. oh, I've been seeing quite a bit of douchebaggery right here in the last week or so. nt

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Response to baldguy (Reply #15)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:01 PM

37. I've no interest in any portrait of Snowden at all.


What do you think of the NSA's surveillance programme? Just curious.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:50 PM

21. What's with all these Snowden post if it's not about Snowden

 

Jeez. But seriously. Take Snowden out of the picture and this story would have faded away over a week ago. Or take Snowden out of the picture so some can get back to bashing on Obama that it's all his fault. Talk about disinformation. No problem when some here jump all over stories full of disinformation just to dis Obama.

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:04 PM

39. It's a little difficult to keep Obama out of it


when the vast majority of the freaked out Snowden-obsessed Obama supportes will ONLY see the story as potentially "anti-Obama".

I'm anti-surveillance and I've tried quite hard to avoid any mention of Obama. I actually wish the pro-Obama crowd would get that, but they're so paranoid it's almost impossible to get it across to them.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #39)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:24 PM

49. It's a little difficult to keep SNOWDEN out of it

Last edited Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:23 PM - Edit history (1)

when the vast majority of the freaked out OBAMA -obsessed SNOWDEN supporters will ONLY see the story as potentially "anti-OBAMA"

I'm anti-surveillance and I've tried quite hard to avoid any mention of SNOWDEN. I actually wish the pro-SNOWDEN crowd would get that, but they're so paranoid it's almost impossible to get it across to them.

A simple twist of words~

Pot to Kettle~

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #49)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:11 PM

106. Well, there may be some similar to what you suggest, but I can't see 'em.


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Response to sibelian (Reply #39)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:27 PM

52. Those damn Obama supporters... they must be paranoid

 

I myself know an NSA agent is sleeping under my bed at night just to spy on me. Because I know they spy on us.

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:05 PM

66. That is an excellent question. If it ain't about Snowden, why the umpteenth thread?

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #66)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:49 PM

101. Because the NSA's corporate media talking points are to keep this

all about the personalities and proclivities of Snowden and Greenwald.

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Response to mhatrw (Reply #101)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:54 PM

102. And it seems to be working! Look what we're talking about.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:52 PM

23. Before you know it no one will give a crap about anything the NSA is doing. That's what they want.

 

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #23)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:57 PM

29. People stopped giving a crap way back in 2006

 

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Response to railsback (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:07 PM

40. Yes, Bush was doing so many awful things at the same time people pretty much lost track...


...which is a pity.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:56 PM

27. Psh, I have nothing but complete trust in the M$M!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:59 PM

32. Character assassination is tactic #1 to shoot the messenger and redirect any discussion.

It's classic propaganda and psy-ops. Goebbels would be proud!

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #32)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:14 PM

44. Damned effective, ain't it?

 

Witnessed and affirmed by about half the replies to this OP.

Kind of unsettling.

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Response to Link Speed (Reply #44)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:18 PM

73. Despicable is what it is.

Character assassination is a fucking shitty thing to do to someone.

Anyone who participates in this nasty "sport" is fucking scum. Pure and simple. Fucking scum. Depraved, bullying, fucking evil.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #32)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:43 PM

58. It's the same thing Nixon tried to do to Ellsberg. History repeating itself.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #58)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:20 PM

75. Exactly, hence the plumbers and the break-ins to Ellsberg's psychologist's office...

The character assassins here are similarly evil.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #32)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:49 PM

62. i think it is more character suicide in snowden's case

nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:59 PM

33. If people haven't figured that out by now...

...they are not going to.

Of course there is a huge smear campaign against him. Since he has turned on his masters, and he has something they don't want revealed... but have no power to stop... they must resort to the next best thing, which is to very publicly kill (smear) the messenger.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:00 PM

35. It's very subtle anymore...

Hell, they may say he stole a Super Bowl ring...

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:14 PM

45. It's not working. The NSA is in trouble despite the distractions and smears.

 

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #45)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:34 PM

55. It's probably making everything worse.


Keeping Snowden in the spotlight keeps the NSA in the spotlight, too. It's not really avoidable.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:25 PM

50. The disinformation campaign is that this is *about* Snowden at all.

 

I don't care one bit about his personality, or his motives, or whether he calls his mommy on Mothers' Day. He's not the issue.

There are always people who fixate on the leaker and not the leak. Some of them have, historically, been paid to do it. Others are just suckers. But they're all just trying to change the subject.

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Response to Marr (Reply #50)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:03 AM

95. ^ astute observation nt

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:29 PM

54. Whatever it was, it seems to be over.

 

Snowden has dropped off the front page of most websites. Wherever he is, he doesn't seem to be able to communicate with his former press contacts. It's unclear whether he is able to contact Assange and wikileaks.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #54)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:35 PM

56. The Wikileaks attorneys have declined to represent him.

 

That should tell us something about Snowden's credibility. If even Wikileaks doesn't want him, there must not be much there.

Game over.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font]
[hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #56)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:46 PM

61. You wish the game was over. I do, too, in fact.

I wish like hell I wasn't being spied on. Some people just don't give a shit about that, it seems.

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Response to randome (Reply #56)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:08 PM

105. Their statement is short and interesting:

Further Statement From Baltasar Garzón
Wednesday June 26, 15:00 BST

Madrid, 25 June 2013

PRESS RELEASE FOR MEDIA AND OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES

This serves to state that the Law firm ILOCAD has decided not to represent Mr. Snowden, whose whereabouts are unknown. We continue to represent Mr. Assange and WikiLeaks as senior legal counsel in the defence of the fundamental right to freedom of information and expression. In this vein, we are satisfied with the recently approved draft resolution by the Committee Legal Affairs and Human Rights of the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly. It states that those who disclose criminal acts in the public interest should be protected from retaliation and persecution from those who commit them.

Baltasar Garzón

Director of ILOCAD S.L. Law Firm


http://wikileaks.org/Further-Statement-From-Baltasar.html

________________________________


Let's break that down:

1) This firm will not represent Snowden;*

2) We continue to represent Assange and Wikileaks;

3) We approve of this draft statement: "those who disclose criminal acts in the public interest should be protected from retaliation and persecution from those who commit them."

Now, if all three of those statements are operative by themselves, can they be re-ordered? Because if one does, the statement seems to go a bit further:

2) We continue to represent Assange and Wikileaks;

3) We approve of this draft statement: "those who disclose criminal acts in the public interest should be protected from retaliation and persecution from those who commit them."

1) This firm will not represent Snowden.
______________________________________________________

I sort of doubt that Julian Assange et al would disagree that these (re-re-)disclosures were in the public interest, in the sense that this time it made the front page.

So, just maybe, we can make a shadowy guess that the Wikileaks attorneys concluded that Snowden was working for some interest other than the public interest. That they think he has a boss.

I know that's twisting a tall glass of lemonade out of a garnish, but that's what I think I see, right now, today, this year. Who in the hell knows what's really going on.

* I don't know what to make of the "whereabouts unknown" clause. It could be that at the time the statement was drafted he was in transit. It could be that it's a subtle tip of the hat in the direction of the question of nationality that arises when one is a spy working for a foreign nation. I guess most likely it's simply an up-front, "don't come asking us about him" shield.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:00 PM

63. Of course, black helicopters, world government, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:03 PM

64. Why do you think the Wikileaks attorneys have declined to represent him

and are saying his whereabouts are unknown? (After Wikileaks said Harrison was with him at all times.)

Is this part of a disinformation campaign?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:04 PM

65. With tens of thousands working for the intelligence industry, it would be naive

to rule out the possibility that some of those employees are given the job of posting on various sites across the web to influence public opinion.

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Response to Incitatus (Reply #65)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:33 AM

91. oh man that has become verrrrry obvious in the last few weeks

 

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Response to Incitatus (Reply #65)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:04 AM

96. THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

There are cops and military DU members too.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:07 PM

67. Well, there ya go, cali... Zombies gotta...

... wait, someone in authority hasn't told them yet...

I'm with those here who noticed that Snowden has become the target of distraction, and in the meanwhile, no one seems to be upset over how we've rolled over and spread em in the effort to hunt for red October or something.

It's pitiful how people don't care about civil liberties. It's scary where we are with removing them bit by bit until we don't have an inkling where they came from to begin with.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:30 PM

69. Snowden is like someone who ever asks me if "that dress" makes them look fat...

Where I always give my standard reply, "No, it doesn't... You don't need any help in that department."

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:59 PM

70. Maybe the right response . . .

. . . is to insist on changing the subject away from Snowden's character and back to what he revealed.

Even if the worst that is said about him is true, it doesn't change the fact that all Americans are subject to a surveillance program that is unconstitutional and a threat to democracy.

Treat the character issue as the distraction it is.

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Response to freedom fighter jh (Reply #70)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:23 PM

78. Yes, the character issue is a distraction. And they're working overtime.

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Response to freedom fighter jh (Reply #70)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:38 PM

80. Exactly! It isn't about Snowden, Obama, Glenn Greenwald, God or Satan

It is about "the fact that all Americans are subject to a surveillance program that is unconstitutional and a threat to democracy."
They do not vilify whistleblowers simply for the satisfaction of hanging the villain in the town square, they do it so that we discuss the personalities rather than the issue.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:19 PM

74. anyone who thinks there isn't a disinformation campaign being conducted against OBAMA

is hopelessly naive.

and don't give me that shit about how I've been reading too many spy novels or listening to Alex whatshisface.

It's the first thing that anyone competent at the NSA or wherever would do. Hell, it's the first thing I'd do. We live in the age of appearances and setting the narrative.

Pot Kettle, cali~

Just saying~

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #74)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:42 PM

82. ^ ^ thread winner

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #82)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:02 AM

83. Why thank you ucrdem~

I got tired of writing and decided to use INSERTS ~

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #82)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:08 AM

97. Reframe winner.

 

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #74)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:55 PM

103. Of course there is. But do you think the fact Obama smokes

makes him a disaster as President?

Do you think the fact that he campaigned against Bush's security state, then embraced it makes him a hypocrite who is unfit for office?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:37 PM

79. Yes, of course there is. And against Glenn Greenwald also. You must remember that we know

that 'Security Contractor' was exposed, more than one actually, for proposing a smear campaign against Greenwald. HB Gary was that contractor. They had to shut down that operation, for a while.

But I wonder who got that contract? If there was money in smearing Greenwald we can be sure that someone else got the contract.

The exposed proposals were being made to Bank of America and the Chamber of Commerce.

Obviously someone else got that contract.

Criminalizing and smearing journalists, there's money in it, apparently.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:41 PM

81. Et tu, cali?

How hard is it to believe that DU members who consider this sorry RW saboteur to be a sorry RW saboteur are, who'd a thunk it, right?

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #81)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:25 AM

86. +1~

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #86)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:31 AM

87. thanks sheshe!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:06 AM

92. More than a generation ago, I worked as a Mall Security Guard.

 

At that time, I went through a school run by the State, and they told us that if we had to use our batons (Night stick) on someone that the best thing to do was to tell any witnesses that the guy we had beaten was a child molester. Everybody hates a child molester, and that would change their opinion, and the way they reported the event.

Original version. "They beat that man half to death for nothing, I mean he was doing nothing."

After the Child Molester claim. "The bad man would not give up, he just kept fighting, and the security people were trying to get him to stop."

So if it was an unwritten rule, in common enough practice back in the 1980's, that they felt comfortable telling rent a cops, to do it, why would it have left the normal practice now?

I wish I could say that I was joking, or lying. But the guy who told me was a police officer who was teaching the course as a second job.

No, I never did it.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:59 AM

94. 'We live in the age of appearances and setting the narrative'

 

translation 'we live in an age of lies'

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:45 PM

99. yes and here at DU even. I will refrain from naming names because everybody knows who they are.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:58 PM

104. This would make an interesting poll, cali.

I haven't yet read other responses, but for the record, I believe there is an active effort afoot to discredit both Snowden and Greenwald. It speaks to their accusations, as a truth-telling campaign about the extent of our government's surveillance activities would be ...

too revealing. ...


Pardon the pun.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:11 PM

107. Anyone who thinks that a disinformation campaign

against Snowden is even remotely necessary at this point is the one being naive.

His actions speak for themselves.

How ironic to see the same people who believe all of Snowden's claims about a massive abuse of power at the NSA (which he has never come close to proving) are now saying, "We can't really know what is or isn't true."

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