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Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:28 PM

Snowden and Freedom

Today, the (arguably reactionary conservative) Supreme Court of the United States held that gay Americans could not be singled out as a class for discrimination. Meanwhile, Edward Snowden is hunkered down in a country where :

"Moscow's top court has ruled that no gay pride parades may be held in Moscow for 100 years.[8] In 2013, Russia's lower house of parliament unanimously (436-0, with one abstention) passed a federal bill banning the distribution of "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations" to minors and the holding of gay rights rallies anywhere in the country.[9][10] If endorsed by the upper house of parliament and signed by President Vladimir Putin, the law will impose heavy fines for using the media or internet to promote "non-traditional relations."[10]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_rights_in_Russia



56 replies, 2928 views

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Arrow 56 replies Author Time Post
Reply Snowden and Freedom (Original post)
arely staircase Jun 2013 OP
hrmjustin Jun 2013 #1
Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #6
hrmjustin Jun 2013 #8
arely staircase Jun 2013 #12
Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #18
arely staircase Jun 2013 #50
Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #51
Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #16
hrmjustin Jun 2013 #21
gholtron Jun 2013 #53
Whisp Jun 2013 #2
Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #3
BlueCheese Jun 2013 #4
arely staircase Jun 2013 #10
BlueCheese Jun 2013 #11
arely staircase Jun 2013 #13
BlueCheese Jun 2013 #17
arely staircase Jun 2013 #20
BlueCheese Jun 2013 #28
Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #19
arely staircase Jun 2013 #23
NoOneMan Jun 2013 #5
baldguy Jun 2013 #7
Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #9
baldguy Jun 2013 #15
Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #22
baldguy Jun 2013 #26
grasswire Jun 2013 #30
arely staircase Jun 2013 #39
GeorgeGist Jun 2013 #14
Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #25
Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #24
Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #27
arely staircase Jun 2013 #29
Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #47
arely staircase Jun 2013 #52
Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #48
arely staircase Jun 2013 #49
Narkos Jun 2013 #31
Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #32
Narkos Jun 2013 #33
Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #34
Narkos Jun 2013 #35
Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #36
Narkos Jun 2013 #38
treestar Jun 2013 #44
Narkos Jun 2013 #45
Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #46
Cha Jun 2013 #37
arely staircase Jun 2013 #40
Cha Jun 2013 #41
arely staircase Jun 2013 #42
treestar Jun 2013 #43
Rise Rebel Resist Jun 2013 #54
redgreenandblue Jun 2013 #55
cali Jun 2013 #56

Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:29 PM

1. Well said!

 

I love to hear him explain that.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:37 PM

6. I'm pretty sure it is because he hates LGBTQs. I mean, what other reason could he have.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:42 PM

8. Well when you claim you are upset are civil rights are being trampled on but than go to

 

countries that have worse records, something is wrong with that picture.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:45 PM

12. precisely

nt

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #12)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:50 PM

18. Really.When was the last time that you petitioned the Obama admin to cut off ties with Saudi Arabia?

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:01 AM

50. I didn't know I could

I should try that. Is there a form you fill out?

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #50)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:08 AM

51. Your own thoughts written with pen & paper.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:48 PM

16. Um. He travelled to countries less likely to extradite him?

You do know that Saudi Arabia is an ally of the U.S., don't you? Both China and Russia are U.S. trading partners. How often have you petitioned our government to cease relations with these civil rights bashing nations?

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:54 PM

21. None but I am not the one who release classified info that said our government is spying on us, and

 

then run to another country that has a worse history of civil rights abuses.

Don't get me wrong I am not in favor of the governments spying on us, but it seems to me if he really wanted the attention on the story he would not have revealed himself. Or at least he would have waited more time so that the story would have gotten more attention. With him revealing himself so soon the story became more and more about him. He wanted the attention and thinks he is a great hero.

Again I am not in favor of the NSA program but I do not trust Snowden and do not think he is a hero.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #21)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:59 AM

53. Well said



K&R

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:31 PM

2. why, it's a really progressive country compared to the U.S.

 

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:35 PM

3. No doubt he picked Russia as a stop over because of all those reasons.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:35 PM

4. Why does it matter?

What do gay rights in Russia have to do with NSA surveillance? What does anything about Snowden personally have to do with whether the NSA surveillance program is a good idea?

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Response to BlueCheese (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:42 PM

10. Going to an authoritarian country with 4 stolen laptops

full of national security secrets from your own demonstrably much more free country matters a great deal. It makes you a traitor. And you know what, sometimes even being a traitor is arguably OK - like say a German who betrayed his/her country in WW2. But Mr. Snowden has betrayed his country for first, totalitarian China and now authoritarian Russia. If you don't think the Chinese got every bit of info off those laptops (and the Russians are getting it now) that is just na´ve.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:44 PM

11. This all distracts from the more important issue of NSA surveillance.

Whether Snowden personally is a good guy or not isn't really important to me.

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Response to BlueCheese (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:46 PM

13. so then why do it (go to Russia, China)?

come back here and state your case. Defend yourself. and edited to ask, you really don't care if the Russians and Chinese have access to American secrets? OK.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:49 PM

17. Are you asking me if I'm a loyal American or not?

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Response to BlueCheese (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:53 PM

20. of course not, please don't think that

I don't like the Patriot Act, never have. I, actually think the NSA collection of phone metadata is an intrusive overreach and disagree with the courts that it is constitutional. But you know what? I'm not the courts. I accept that I may disagree with the law sometimes. But I think Putin or the Chinese having access to those laptops is really bad too. Those are not mutually exclusive points of view.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #20)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:03 PM

28. Thank you for the clarification.

To answer your question, obviously I'd rather not have Russia and China get access to classified info.

I simply worry that the focus on Snowden is being used to downplay the importance of the NSA surveillance itself. As you say, they're separate issues, and I think the surveillance issue is more important than Snowden's own ethics. (I personally don't regard him as a hero or a devil.)

I apologize if my last question sounded too aggrieved. Cheers.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:52 PM

19. He stole the laptops? Ooh, the telephone game aspect of this story gets better and better.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:55 PM

23. what is on them is more important

hell the Chinese probably made the laptops.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:37 PM

5. Are Gay Married Government Workers Spying on us?

 

Are straight ones? Does Snowden wear boxers or briefs? Shake the magic PRISM....try again later.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:38 PM

7. But, but, but ... HE'S A *HERO*!

 

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Response to baldguy (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:42 PM

9. He's a witch! Er, I mean he's a homophobe! That's the ticket. He flew on a Russian airline

to Moscow because he's a homophobe. Had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it is an international hub to countries that are likely to offer him asylum.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:48 PM

15. Oh, I'm sure it's because of his love for freedom & liberty.

 

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Response to baldguy (Reply #15)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:54 PM

22. He's lived his life in a country (now increasingly revealed) infamous for spying on their citizens.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:57 PM

26. Here, this is for you:

 

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:34 PM

30. and he stole laptops made in CHina!! GASP

Is there no end to his perfidy?

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Response to grasswire (Reply #30)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:56 PM

39. pretty sure the hardware isn't what's problematic

nt

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:47 PM

14. Non Sequitor.

But thanks for playing.

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:56 PM

25. He's hoping to propagandize "the gays".

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 08:55 PM

24. Could it possibly be that he feels safer in an "authoritatian" country than in his own.

 

Has Russian accused him of being a spy? Has it issued a warrant for his arrest? No.

But, our "free" country, with its "transparent" government, that doesn't torture (well except for whistle blowers and inmates at Guantanamo) has.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #24)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:02 PM

27. I'd fell safer in a country that is an adversary. There is no way that I would fly to Canada,

anywhere in Western Europe, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Mexico, Columbia, Vietnam...

I would fly to a powerful adversary.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #27)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:04 PM

29. no doubt

just don't go giving lectures on freedom while asking fascists for help - a ffs don't give them secret info.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #29)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:40 AM

47. He wasn't helped by fascists. He was helped by Wikileaks.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #47)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:08 AM

52. geting advice on this from assange is like getting the enron dudes to do your taxes from jail

I don't think he has a great track record on getting unstuck from tight spots.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #29)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:45 AM

48. You are right. He should have flown to our ally Saudi Arabia. Beacon of freedom for

women and gays.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #48)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:59 AM

49. at this point I could totally see him going there

China, Russia then why not where all the 911 hijackers came from? but since yeah we are cozy with those particular a-holes he probably won't. maybe Iran? maybe Iraq (depending on what year this is and whether we hate or love them.) Afghanistan? Just the Taliban part. Pakistan would be confusing because they are our allies, but secretly our enemies, or is it the other way around?

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #27)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:04 PM

31. Spoken like a true patriot

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Response to Narkos (Reply #31)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:07 PM

32. How jingoistic of you.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #32)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:08 PM

33. That's good dude. Roget's thesaurus antonyms?

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Response to Narkos (Reply #33)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:10 PM

34. Jingoism is a pretty standard word in popular vernacular.

But go ahead and make fun of me for using big words. Big words for big minds. Small words for small minds.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:13 PM

35. Haha! I always thought it was "small minds, big words"?

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Response to Narkos (Reply #35)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:25 PM

36. Only in your warped little world, my friend.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #36)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:32 PM

38. Thank you. Now I know I am in the presence of a "big mind"

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #24)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:16 PM

44. this is truly jumping the shark

Russian government can torture who it wants, tap who it wants, issue warrants of arrest it wants or just arrest without warrants, you Snowden fans have got to be kidding. There is nothing you won't say to defend this loser's actions!

They won't even let him into their country and have him stuck in the airport for eternity.

Our country is tons more free and transparent. Do you think leakers of Russian classified documents live very long? OMG.

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Response to treestar (Reply #44)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:26 PM

45. Agreed. This place is weird these days

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Response to treestar (Reply #44)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:56 PM

46. Are you saying we should mimic them?

 

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:28 PM

37. Snowden: "I'll just sneak off to Russia from China and give them Secrets because Russia good, China

good, USA baaaaad.. Especially that Democratic President Barack Obama." "I want Ron Paul or fucking nothing"

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Response to Cha (Reply #37)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:05 PM

40. I know, right?

Goodness in descending order according to Snowden:

Ron Paul
CPC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China)
Vladamir Putin
.
.
.
.
.
Obama
The Devil?

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #40)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:11 PM

41. Yes, only I'm thinking according to Snowden's mentality.. that

Pres Obama=the devil.. poor thing.. that hate will get him exactly nowhere.

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Response to Cha (Reply #41)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:13 PM

42. yeah I wasn't sure which to put lowest

nt

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:14 PM

43. Yeah but they haven't killed anybody in Iraq

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:51 AM

54. weak sauce

 

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:52 AM

55. lol. non sequitur.

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