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Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:03 AM

ZIMMERMAN TRIAL: Day 4, Thursday, June 27.

Live, uninterrupted testimony here:

http://wildabouttrial.com/george-zimmerman-live-stream.html



Rachel Jeantel returns to testify.

196 replies, 22692 views

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Reply ZIMMERMAN TRIAL: Day 4, Thursday, June 27. (Original post)
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 OP
riverwalker Jun 2013 #1
JimDandy Jun 2013 #98
Generic Other Jun 2013 #191
WhataKnight Jun 2013 #183
cpwm17 Jun 2013 #185
WhataKnight Jun 2013 #189
Generic Other Jun 2013 #192
WhataKnight Jun 2013 #194
uppityperson Jun 2013 #196
riverwalker Jun 2013 #2
riverwalker Jun 2013 #3
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #4
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #5
avebury Jun 2013 #8
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #6
Little Star Jun 2013 #7
Lisa D Jun 2013 #9
riverwalker Jun 2013 #11
Lisa D Jun 2013 #12
riverwalker Jun 2013 #10
KurtNYC Jun 2013 #34
antigone382 Jun 2013 #188
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #13
riverwalker Jun 2013 #31
Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #52
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #14
Little Star Jun 2013 #20
warrior1 Jun 2013 #15
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #16
fishwax Jun 2013 #44
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #17
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #18
Lurks Often Jun 2013 #84
JimDandy Jun 2013 #100
Lurks Often Jun 2013 #105
JimDandy Jun 2013 #133
Lurks Often Jun 2013 #163
JimDandy Jun 2013 #173
Lurks Often Jun 2013 #175
DevonRex Jun 2013 #124
JimDandy Jun 2013 #135
DevonRex Jun 2013 #122
Lurks Often Jun 2013 #125
DevonRex Jun 2013 #128
Lurks Often Jun 2013 #167
riverwalker Jun 2013 #19
Little Star Jun 2013 #22
JimDandy Jun 2013 #78
noiretextatique Jun 2013 #116
Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #149
uponit7771 Jun 2013 #21
chelsea0011 Jun 2013 #23
uponit7771 Jun 2013 #24
chelsea0011 Jun 2013 #25
uponit7771 Jun 2013 #27
Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #152
magical thyme Jun 2013 #26
KurtNYC Jun 2013 #30
riverwalker Jun 2013 #28
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2013 #32
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #68
Little Star Jun 2013 #101
uponit7771 Jun 2013 #29
Ninga Jun 2013 #33
riverwalker Jun 2013 #35
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #36
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #37
riverwalker Jun 2013 #38
Little Star Jun 2013 #102
avebury Jun 2013 #39
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #42
LittleBlue Jun 2013 #40
avebury Jun 2013 #41
uponit7771 Jun 2013 #43
riverwalker Jun 2013 #45
riverwalker Jun 2013 #47
targetpractice Jun 2013 #48
JimDandy Jun 2013 #103
targetpractice Jun 2013 #112
JimDandy Jun 2013 #119
reflection Jun 2013 #46
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #49
TorchTheWitch Jun 2013 #109
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #50
LittleBlue Jun 2013 #51
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #54
LittleBlue Jun 2013 #57
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #53
JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #56
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #58
riverwalker Jun 2013 #81
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #91
riverwalker Jun 2013 #97
Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #156
JimDandy Jun 2013 #104
bunnies Jun 2013 #55
Rex Jun 2013 #66
bunnies Jun 2013 #69
Rex Jun 2013 #193
HockeyMom Jun 2013 #59
JimDandy Jun 2013 #86
Tanuki Jun 2013 #60
hedgehog Jun 2013 #61
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #62
hedgehog Jun 2013 #64
woolldog Jun 2013 #63
bunnies Jun 2013 #70
JimDandy Jun 2013 #107
riverwalker Jun 2013 #65
uponit7771 Jun 2013 #74
JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #79
DinahMoeHum Jun 2013 #108
Stardust Jun 2013 #131
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #67
riverwalker Jun 2013 #71
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #72
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #75
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #73
uponit7771 Jun 2013 #83
Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #76
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #80
Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #82
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #85
JimDandy Jun 2013 #89
uponit7771 Jun 2013 #94
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #77
riverwalker Jun 2013 #87
uponit7771 Jun 2013 #95
TorchTheWitch Jun 2013 #195
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #88
Lisa D Jun 2013 #90
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #92
uponit7771 Jun 2013 #93
riverwalker Jun 2013 #96
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #99
TorchTheWitch Jun 2013 #106
JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #110
JimDandy Jun 2013 #121
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #111
bunnies Jun 2013 #115
riverwalker Jun 2013 #113
bunnies Jun 2013 #114
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #117
bunnies Jun 2013 #120
DevonRex Jun 2013 #126
Myrina Jun 2013 #118
riverwalker Jun 2013 #123
riverwalker Jun 2013 #127
Dalai_1 Jun 2013 #129
JimDandy Jun 2013 #137
riqster Jun 2013 #130
riverwalker Jun 2013 #132
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #134
Generic Other Jun 2013 #136
riverwalker Jun 2013 #138
riverwalker Jun 2013 #139
riverwalker Jun 2013 #140
Generic Other Jun 2013 #146
Generic Other Jun 2013 #142
JimDandy Jun 2013 #145
Generic Other Jun 2013 #147
riverwalker Jun 2013 #158
JimDandy Jun 2013 #160
targetpractice Jun 2013 #143
Generic Other Jun 2013 #150
avebury Jun 2013 #154
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #141
targetpractice Jun 2013 #144
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #148
Generic Other Jun 2013 #151
ksoze Jun 2013 #155
targetpractice Jun 2013 #157
Generic Other Jun 2013 #171
JVS Jun 2013 #174
Incitatus Jun 2013 #178
Initech Jun 2013 #153
riverwalker Jun 2013 #159
pokerfan Jun 2013 #172
riverwalker Jun 2013 #161
DevonRex Jun 2013 #180
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #162
avebury Jun 2013 #164
riverwalker Jun 2013 #165
avebury Jun 2013 #166
ksoze Jun 2013 #168
MoonRiver Jun 2013 #169
grok Jun 2013 #176
JVS Jun 2013 #170
Shrek Jun 2013 #177
DevonRex Jun 2013 #179
cpwm17 Jun 2013 #182
stranger81 Jun 2013 #187
BronxBoy Jun 2013 #181
MoonRiver Jun 2013 #184
nolabear Jun 2013 #186
ecstatic Jun 2013 #190

Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:11 AM

1. she looks poised and together

West is asking about a personal letter she wrote Trayvons mother.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:44 PM

98. She is holding it together. See ZIMMERMAN though?

There he is...The real George Zimmerman. THIS cold, hard, Zimmerman glaring at Rachel Jeantel this morning is undoubtedly the same menacing Zimmerman that Trayvon saw.

I hope the jury, in their frustrated impatience with West is paying attention to Zimmerman's demeanor.

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #98)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:14 PM

191. He was Fidgety

Slumped in the seat at times. Cocky. Staring down the witnesses. May have been chewing gum. Kept seizing on points and hastily scrambling to write them down like he'd scored a point. Gestured or said something to lawyers several times. He thinks he's clever.

He does not have a poker face. Too transparent. I can see why he failed the police psychological tests. Just too eager. No remorse for killing a kid. Felt good at the time. Not so now. Are they gonna put him on the stand? A Captain Queeg moment?

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:58 PM

183. I'm not sure what you were watching

 

But she is a disaster on the stand. First let me say that all I want is Justice, not revenge like most here. I have two daughters, one 14 and one 12 and if either of them acted like this young lady did on the stand I would be embarrassed and ashamed of the job I did as their mother.

Second, she is a 19 year old girl going into her senior year, that would make her 20 upon graduation, she can't read or write cursive, she was caught in several lies, she said she heard wet grass, not sure how you do that and for the first time she said she heard Trayvon say get off, something she has never said before. To me she has no credibility and all six of those women on the Jury are mothers like me. I should say I live in Lake Mary, FL. which is in Seminole County right next to Sanford.

To me Zimmerman is guilty of something but I would never put another person away in prison based upon what I heard from her the past two days. It is obvious to me that the parents attorney coached her into what to say, and I doubt almost everything she did say.

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Response to WhataKnight (Reply #183)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:10 PM

185. Welcome to DU!

 

She was awful. Nobody deserves to have somebody like her be responsible for their conviction. That would be a travesty of our justice system.

The totality of the case may still convict Zimmerman. He initiated the conflict by stalking TM, made brave by his weapon. I'd hate to see him go free.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #185)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:04 PM

189. He deserves jail time

 

I just don't think what she said is going to do it. I don't believe in the stand your ground law but I also don't believe Trayvon is as innocent as everyone wants to believe. I believe they both are at fault and its a shame a young man had to die and for that someone needs to go to jail. Murder 2 is not going to happen, just like Casey Anthony in Orlando, the DA over charged.

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Response to WhataKnight (Reply #189)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:18 PM

192. You are wrong. The gun changed everything

Only one at fault for a gun shot and a dead kid.

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #192)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 02:41 AM

194. I'm sorry

 

you don't understand Florida law. The state must prove it was not self defense which they are failing at.

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Response to WhataKnight (Reply #183)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 03:34 AM

196. English is her third language and you complain she can't read, write cursive & doubt her? Huh

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:12 AM

2. "I can't read cursive" n/t

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:15 AM

3. evidently West can't either n/t

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:23 AM

4. Asking Rachel about her characterzation of the case as a racial thing.

So according to the defense, it's not about race unless they want to make it about race.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:24 AM

5. West: "Are you okay? You seem so different from how you were yesterday"

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:30 AM

8. I was interrupted when I heard her

response. I think I heard her respond that she had gotten some sleep, is that correct? She had to be exhausted by the end of yesterday.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:29 AM

6. OFFS.

"It was racial, but it was because Trayvon Martin put race in it, correct?"

Why would Rachel testifying at trial that Trayvon describing Zimmerman as a "creepy ass cracker" somehow be evidence of her bolstering her story to make it more believable to a jury?

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:30 AM

7. She looks like she has been crying her eyes are a bit swollen....

I feel bad she has to do this but I think she is very believable.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:30 AM

9. Does anyone have a link

to the trial online?

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #11)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:31 AM

12. Thanks! n/t

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:30 AM

10. West: "isn't creepy assed cracker a racist comment"? n/t



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Response to riverwalker (Reply #10)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:42 AM

34. I missed it. Was there an objection from Prosecution when he asked that?

It is a leading question; a statement actually, and she is not there as an expert on race relations or sociology, or language and semantics.

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Response to KurtNYC (Reply #34)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:54 PM

188. I think you can ask leading questions in cross-examination.

I could be wrong...this all comes from my mock trial training in high school nigh on fifteen years ago, but as I recall, the prosecution cannot ask its own witnesses leading questions, but the defense can, and vice versa: the defense cannot ask its own witnesses leading questions, whereas the prosecution can during cross-examination. An actual lawyer can sure correct me, however.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:33 AM

13. Judge: "Can we move on to another topic?"

Clearly doesn't like West's subtle race injection.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #13)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:38 AM

31. he almost implied that Trayvons parents

told her to say it was racially motivated.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #31)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:57 AM

52. It was clearly the implication.


Exactly as predicted in yesterday's thread.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:44 AM

14. Judge seems frustrated by West's questioning today. nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #14)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:16 AM

20. I'm having a hard time watching him. Silly but...

I really don't like him or his methods very much.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:49 AM

15. the lawyer is pissing me off

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Response to warrior1 (Reply #15)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:50 AM

16. He's pissing the judge off, too. nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #16)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:30 AM

44. "That's the last time this question will be asked"

(or something to that effect)



Yeah, the judge is getting impatient/frustrated with him.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:55 AM

17. Thanks Tommy. I was up late last night.

Just now woke up.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:06 AM

18. Semi-OT: Fun with internets.

Was doing some googling and came across an old Free Republic post where they point out that Trayvon didn't technically buy iced tea but actually instead watermelon punch. They then continued to theorize that he bought that and skittles in order to concoct some sort of drug cocktail that would have made him ultra-violent.

I shit you not.

God Bless you Free Republic, and the wonderful pinnacle of human intellect that you portray to the world.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:24 PM

84. It's called Purple Drank

 

and the missing ingredient is cough syrup with promethazine and codeine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_drank

That does not mean I am saying or implying Martin was either on it or intending to make it with the watermelon punch and skittles. Merely that such a "drug cocktail" does in fact exist. If people are stupid enough to try and get high off certain kinds of bath crystals, then they are stupid enough to mix other things together to get high.

And no I wasn't on Free Republic. Came across a mention of Purple Drank and did some research.

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #84)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:58 PM

100. And yet your talking points and seemingly 'helpful'

info keeps matching up with theirs.

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #100)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:39 PM

105. So sorry facts disturb you.

 

IF Martin had been mixing cough syrup, watermelon punch and skittles, the codeine would have shown up in the toxicology screen. As far as I remember, without going back and reading the toxicology report gain, is that Martin had TRACE amounts of THC (pot) in his blood. I don't think the ME report indicated Martin was high at the time of the incident.

Feel free to read whatever you want into my posts.

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #105)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:06 PM

133. On conservative sites,

Last edited Sat Jul 20, 2013, 03:53 PM - Edit history (1)

at least they don't try to hide smears of the victim so that the smears are couched in terms of info. When the toxicology reports do not indicate that any traces of cough syrup chemicals were found in TM's blood, and you then expound on one of the freeper themes anyway, then, yes, I'll read what you write as a conservative smear. And, wow, you got another smear in with the 'trace amounts of THC'. Aren't you the clever piler-on.

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #133)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:57 PM

163. Saying Martin was NOT under the influence of anything is a smear?

 

I said the toxicology reports indicated that he did not have had codeine in system and that the trace amounts of THC indicated he wasn't high at the time of the incident.

If me giving proof that Martin was not under the influence of anything is a smear, then you live in a very strange world.

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #163)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:42 PM

173. Your very first post

describing 'Purple Drank' was the smear and that is what I replied to...and the fact that in your first post, you never said his toxic screen was clean for codeine. That's called a smear, my friend. You didn't deign to do that until your second post, after I called you on the smear, and in that post you threw in another little smear about trace THC in the coroner's report.

Victim smearing is pathetic and playing dumb doesn't become you. I'm done with this sub-thread.

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #173)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:50 PM

175. Oh the horror of it all

 

in my first post I don't reference the toxicology report, but then I go on to reference it in all subsequent posts.

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #100)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:26 PM

124. And isn't even true. Skittles don't melt like Jolly Ranchers in the Mountain Dew

Note, that's soda, not Arizona Watermelon Tea. They use sprite but prefer the caffeine in Mtn. Dew or mix a Rock Star in with it.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #124)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:11 PM

135. The victim smearing by that poster

and by the gun conservatives is truly sick. Thanks for pointing out the incorrect info in his smear attempt.

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #84)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:23 PM

122. HAHA!!! MOUNTAIN DEW +JOLLY RANCHERS + CODEINE isn't Watermelon Arizona & Skittles.nt

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #122)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:30 PM

125. Your point is?

 

Given that there was no evidence of codeine in the toxicology report done on Martin means he wasn't under the influence of it and I never said he was.

The codeine is the part they are using to get high, what they mix it with to kill the taste is probably irrelevant.

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #125)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:34 PM

128. Skittles don't melt in the drink like Jolly Ranchers. They're NOT the same. They're gummy.

They don't work. The kids use a carbonated drink, not a flat drink, too. It speeds the process. Because the jolly ranchers have to melt.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #128)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:30 PM

167. I have already stated that Martin was NOT under

 

the influence of either codeine or pot. Not sure how I can prove to you that I agree Martin was not under the influence of anything.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:10 AM

19. West keeps harping on the letter

it was a brief personal letter to a grieving mother, she wasn't under oath. Of course she would leave out details.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #19)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:17 AM

22. He is being an asshole, imho. Ugh....

He better be glad I'm not on the jury, lol.

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Response to Little Star (Reply #22)


Response to JimDandy (Reply #78)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:18 PM

116. i agree: he is not doing his client any favor

by acting like a complete jackass.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #116)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:24 PM

149. not only a jackass, but a bore and a boor

 

the judge didn't seem to like him yesterday, either
or the day before, or the first day.. lol

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:16 AM

21. She seems poised today, non teenager-ish, I like the teenager

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:19 AM

23. At this point the jury has to be thinking can we just finish this testimony up already

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Response to chelsea0011 (Reply #23)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:20 AM

24. +1, cause she's not saying anything new and it looks like Z's attorney is being a jerk

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #24)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:29 AM

25. I am amazed how long she has been on the stand....

she was only talking on a cell phone and heard some converstion between Martin and Zimmerman and the phone went dead. Eyewitnesses were cruised through by the defense but this witness has to testify to conversations of little to no importance she had with the mom of Martin. I'm not sure why this loooooong testimony matters.

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Response to chelsea0011 (Reply #25)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:32 AM

27. The defense is trying to embarrass IMHO, he's being antagonistic now

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Response to chelsea0011 (Reply #25)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:26 PM

152. he is effectively planting reasonable doubt in the jury as to whether or not

 

they will survive this whole trial without going insane
if he keeps going on and on and on and on and on

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #24)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:29 AM

26. if so, that's a good thing.

 

the more the defense lawyer comes off as a badgering jerk, the more sympathetic the jury will be to the witness.

Will there be a redirect after?

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #26)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:37 AM

30. yes -- redirect is next

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:34 AM

28. He is trying to wear her down

to impeach her. He drones on and on repeating the same thing.
She looks tired, but hanging in there.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #28)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:42 AM

32. I have seen that with expert witnesses, but not with a layperson and especially a kid

I think it will backfire.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #32)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:12 PM

68. Dennis Fung at the OJ trial comes to mind.

 

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #32)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:59 PM

101. It has backfired for me and I'm just sitting in my own house....

in comfortable clothes not on a jury. I think he has overreached with his incessant badgering of this witness.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:35 AM

29. Defense: At LEAST 20 seconds of Z following TM!! My goodness This guy is an IDIOT!!

That's about what he's established with his questioning of TMs friend!!

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:42 AM

33. This attorney keeps slipping and using Zimmerman's name....this attorney

has chosen to use a certain demeanor which is not playing well.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:47 AM

35. HLN just made interesting comment

that at the beginning when she said she can't read cursive, the hearts of all six female jurors had to be touched. I think this jury will be very sympathetic to Racheal.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:18 AM

36. Prosecution back up on re-direct. nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #36)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:21 AM

37. Never mind. West's still droning on. nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:24 AM

38. "I could hear Trayvon"

v.s. "I could've heard Trayvon"
she is disputing the transcription

Deposition transcripts are often wrong in phrasing.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #38)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:02 PM

102. Yes they are and sometimes they leave out things too.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:25 AM

39. It is so hard to believe that Knock Knock is actually

an attorney. Having the judge continually school him on how things are done just does not make him look good.

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Response to avebury (Reply #39)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:28 AM

42. I went to his firm's website.

Bandwidth exceed.

I guess too many people are curious as to what Knock Knock is all about.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:25 AM

40. The defense had better make its point soon

 

He looks like he's just hectoring this witness.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #40)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:28 AM

41. He is also just a fraction away from getting

argumentative with the judge as well.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #40)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:29 AM

43. +1, his droning on is a good indicator that her testimony was powerful IMHO

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:34 AM

45. playing the audio (jury out of room)

What did you say? Could've or could?
Rachel: "I COULD HEAR TRAYVON"

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #45)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:38 AM

47. now attorneys are argueing

about letting the jury hear the audio of the deposition. "Could've" or "Could"
It's kind of mumbled, don't think it's that significant.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #47)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:49 AM

48. The audio sounds like she said "could'a heard Trayvon"

That was transcribed as "could've heard Trayvon" which implies something different than her intention.

Unfortunately, she is difficult to understand a times.

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Response to targetpractice (Reply #48)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:13 PM

103. The most important word in her sentence

is "hear". She says "hear", not "heard."

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #103)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:32 PM

112. In the recorded deposition audio?

I was struggling to understand if she was saying "hear" or "hear'd" (mispronouncing "heard".

What is your contention? Just want to understand.

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Response to targetpractice (Reply #112)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:19 PM

119. The second and third time

Last edited Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:46 PM - Edit history (1)

the defense played the audio, I focused on just that tiny section, and the word she spoke is 'hear'. I can see how the transcriber heard 'coulda', because Jeantel seems to not complete the full tongue movement on ends of word with hard consonants, like words ending in 'd', so there is no release to make the letter's full sound. If you're listening to that, your brain might fill in a phantom soft sound at the end of the word, like the 'a' in 'coulda'.

Phonetically she says: "I cood her Trayvn'. I'll check the audio again later online, but doubt it will change what I'm hearing her say.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:37 AM

46. I'm at work and unable to follow.

I do notice that the right-wingers who infect the comment section of my local newspaper are practically dancing with joy on the live thread, they think Ms. Jeantel is personally escorting Z from jail, she's doing so badly. But I come here and see that the opposite view is largely held. I'll have to see it for myself later.

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Response to reflection (Reply #46)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:53 AM

49. It's a bit of a Roscharch test.

That being said, there are two things that I find totally and completely damning for Zimmerman:

1. "These assholes always get away" and "Fucking punks"--shows to me that Zimmerman was not acting as a concerned citizen but had a chip on his shoulder that night.

2. Zimmerman's claim that he was "ambushed" by Trayvon after having chased and lost him. Makes zero logical or common sense. Contradicts every basic human behavior. Why would someone being chased by a stranger for reasons unknown voluntarily want to re-engage that person after attempting to lose him?

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #49)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:15 PM

109. Re: #2 - I think there's physical evidence to back that up

In watching day 2 of the trial where the evidence witness is testifying and showing the various items found on the scene, pictures of where they fell, etc., it occurred to me that since Trayvon's cellphone and headset were found on the ground near his body it tells me that he did not try to ambush Zimmerman, and that Rachel's testimony is correct and the Zimmerman ambushed him. If you were going to ambush someone, why would you still be talking on your phone and have on your headset? Even if you had stopped talking on the phone, why would you still be wearing your headset and still have your phone in your hand? It's ridiculous to imagine that Trayvon doubled back to ambush Zimmerman while still wearing his headset and holding his phone in his hand. If you're going to ambush someone you un-encumber yourself so your hands are free and your eyes and ears are free to be able to sneak up on them. Who starts a premeditated fight while still wearing a headset and holding their phone in their hand? Didn't happen. Trayvon's phone and headset being found in the grass near his body shows that he was still holding his phone in his hand and was wearing his headset when HE was ambushed.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:56 AM

50. The four times she emphasized "Ended," it sounded like "Ennit."

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:57 AM

51. Oh dear

 

She's freezing on the stand.

Please, Rachel, don't meltdown right now.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #51)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:58 AM

54. If she heard "grass," she needs to explain that, not look dumbfounded by the follow-up question.

 

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #54)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:01 PM

57. She just recanted some testimony

 

About rolling around.

She's got to get a handle on this ASAP, it's going south fast.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:58 AM

53. Next, watch West ask Rachel to describe the sound of one hand clapping.

Grass has a soft rustling sound to it, but it's hard to verbally explain.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #53)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:00 PM

56. It's that bad?

:jawdrop: Not listening - at work right now. Zimmerman's attorney is getting down to that level - eh?

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #56)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:02 PM

58. I fully expected this.

This is a goal line stand for the Defendant. If the jury believes Rachel's story, Zimmerman goes to jail for a long time.

They are a cornered animal.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #53)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:23 PM

81. and wet grass is squeeky

I know the sound she is trying to explain, especially if the headset is on the grass

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #81)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:35 PM

91. But it's hard to elucidate in words.

Therein lies the problem which the defense is attempting to exploit.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #91)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:43 PM

97. exactly n/t

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #91)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:32 PM

156. and the jury probably knows exactly the sound she's talking about

 

I'm glad Zimmerman's lawyer is an ass

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #81)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:24 PM

104. Yes, but it would have taken

me a minute to come up with the word 'squeek' and maybe the example of a tennis shoe rotating on wet grass to expound on the sound.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:59 AM

55. WTF is this assholes point?!

 

Im really starting to get pissed off! I feel like he's been asking her the same damned questions for hour upon hour. Seems like he's just trying to put words in her mouth. Stop harassing this poor girl, dickhead!

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Response to bunnies (Reply #55)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:10 PM

66. He is trying to trip her up, confuse her and get her to

 

contradict herself. Of course that won't happen, since she is telling what she experienced first hand. He is coming of as a total asshole.

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Response to Rex (Reply #66)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:12 PM

69. And this in front of an all female jury?

 

Myself, I want to reach through this monitor and shake the hell out of him.

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Response to bunnies (Reply #69)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 01:58 PM

193. My mom asked the same question.

 

I said that I don't think a person has to have common sense to be a lawyer.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:03 PM

59. I had to shut it off

because I couldn't take it. How many different ways can you ask the same damn question? This young woman has a whole lot of stamina, and courage, to take this.

You wonder why people don't want to be witnesses? As a woman, I almost want to smack that attorney for more than one thing besides his interrogation. Knock, knock? Cracker? Trying to inflame the jury? Well, he just might be, but not in the way he wants.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #59)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:29 PM

86. That is my take exactly.

Last edited Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:18 PM - Edit history (1)

The only reason left to keep harassing her is to try to get her to make an angry outbusrt at him, in order to leave the jury with that as their last bad impression of her. No other explanation left.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:04 PM

60. This cross-examination is excruciating,

and I feel really sorry for Rachel being subjected to having every single word nit-picked relentlessly and repeatedly, even when she has answered to the best of her recollection and ability. I can see why people "don't want to get involved," knowing that they are apt to be subjected to this sort of harassment.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:05 PM

61. Leading the witness much?

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Response to hedgehog (Reply #61)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:07 PM

62. To be fair, attorneys are allowed to lead on cross.

I.e. when it's not their own witness.

Or in several other limited circumstances when it is their witness.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #62)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:08 PM

64. Thanks! I didn't know that!

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:08 PM

63. The judge really doesn't like West.

 

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Response to woolldog (Reply #63)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:15 PM

70. Not much to like as far as I can see.

 

cant imagine he's winning points from the jury either. What a jerk.

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Response to bunnies (Reply #70)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:00 PM

107. His defense role probably is to be the point

guy when dry material is presented to the jury or they need a 'bad cop'.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:10 PM

65. "that would be retarded, Sir"



West said "maybe Trayvon lied about where he was so could attack Mr. Zimmerman and didn't want you to know"

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #65)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:18 PM

74. That's going to be rememberd....the defense should sit down and let someone else talk

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #65)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:22 PM

79. She said that?

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #79)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:09 PM

108. Yep, she did. "THAT'S REAL RETARDED, SIR"

It's at 0:15


#at=17

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Response to DinahMoeHum (Reply #108)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:50 PM

131. Rachel, you go girlfriend!!! Don't let that slimeball, West, get to you!!!

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:11 PM

67. "No sir!"--Considerably louder from Rachel...

....when West tried to infer that it was Trayvon who started the fight.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:15 PM

71. he is trying to trap her

but she is quick. Refuses to agree that Travon approached Z., repeats Z was behind him.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:17 PM

72. "I did not say he (Trayvon) approached him (Zimmerman)!"

Say what you want about Rachel, but she put West in his place right there.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #72)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:20 PM

75. (error)

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:18 PM

73. West puts forth the defense's position, she refutes, he goes, "Well, whatever." Where is the DA??

 

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #73)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:24 PM

83. The DA should stomp a mud hole in the defense after that...knock knock woke everyone up

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:20 PM

76. Defense showing it's true colors and strategy now...

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Response to Democracyinkind (Reply #76)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:22 PM

80. "If Trayvon Martin planned to assault." "If Trayvon Martin planned to attack." Trayvon the Villain.

 

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #80)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:24 PM

82. Yep. Totally twisting her words. Repeatedly suggesting that she said things she didn't say

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Response to Democracyinkind (Reply #82)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:25 PM

85. Then trying to minimize her words with "In any event."

 

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Response to Democracyinkind (Reply #76)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:34 PM

89. Yes, all they have left is the harassment of witnesses.

And see the look on Zimmerman's face during her testimony? It's almost certainly the same cold, hard menacing look and demeanor that Trayvon saw!

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #89)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:36 PM

94. +1

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:20 PM

77. "If Trayvon Martin was getting ready to assault..."???!!!! WTH?! FINALLY THE DA OBJECTS.

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:31 PM

87. IMHO West is alienating this jury

he is every patronizing asshole women deal with everyday. Beating up, and verbally humiliating an illiterate, scared high school girl may win points with some Neanderthal types, but he is losing this case, with this female jury.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #87)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:41 PM

95. +1

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #87)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 03:08 AM

195. That's exactly what I think

Though I think he mostly lost them with that asinine knock knock joke. This is a serious case about a serious incident where a young man was shot and killed... making a crass joke under the circumstances was just about the most stupid and most alienating thing West cold have done unless he decided instead to pull down his pants and moon the jury.

Frankly, O'Mara is no better with the harassing of witnesses. He just does it less clumsily. He harassed every witness other than the blonde woman (and he likely didn't try that with her because she came off as not being the least bit timid or frightened of him). He badgered the Asian woman endlessly about her "left to right" testimony when clearly she hadn't mentioned it before because no one had specifically ASKED and she obviously didn't think it was an important detail to mention. By the end of that badgering he had her very close to tears. IIRC, he did the same to the black woman and also badgered her about her "liking" pro-Martin things on Facebook as if she's supposed to be as unbiased as a juror when witnesses for either side can be - and often are - extremely biased to one side or the other because of what they witnessed.

I really think the strategy of both of these defense attorneys is absolutely alienating the jurors, and I can't for the life of me see why they don't see that.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:33 PM

88. Good grief. I find the JUDGE'S voice to be tremulous. They need Judge Judy!

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:34 PM

90. Why doesn't the judge insist

on having the same transcript as the lawyers?

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Response to Lisa D (Reply #90)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:35 PM

92. Ain't THAT a good question! Oy.

 

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Response to Lisa D (Reply #90)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:35 PM

93. +1

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:42 PM

96. delay and sidebar, at dispute

one transcript (Prosecution) records Rachels answer to a question about when Z got out of the truck with "Oh, you want that too?" and another transcript (defense) of the same meeting wrote "***" meaning it was inaudible. They are argueing if jury should her the tape and determine what was said.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #96)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:44 PM

99. "Yeah, lunch!" nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:56 PM

106. FOR THOSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO WATCH BUT CAN'T WATCH LIVE...

croakerqueen123 on YouTube puts up every day of trial in segments on her YouTube site. So if you can't watch it all live or want to refer back to something that you might have missed live you can watch it all on her YouTube site at your leasure...

http://www.youtube.com/user/croakerqueen123?feature=watch

She doesn't delete any of the sidebars or recesses, but you can easily forward through them or anything else you aren't interested in. She also puts up these segments very quickly at the end of each day.

I watched the whole Jodi Arias trial this way since I could see very little of it live. It was great to be able to watch as much as I wanted to when I wanted to and forward over the sidebars or recesses or any other boring bits. It was also especially nice to be able to refer back to testimony or evidence I'd seen but couldn't remember or didn't remember correctly.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #106)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:17 PM

110. Thank you!

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #106)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:22 PM

121. Nice! Thanks. n/t

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:24 PM

111. Why was Rachel dismissed? Done?

 

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #111)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:04 PM

115. Done. But might be called back. nt

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:50 PM

113. phone guy is done

now a Ms. Lauer is up, lives at the townhomes.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:03 PM

114. Is West going to ask this pretty, well spoken, white woman what GRASS sounds like too?

 

Inquiring minds want to know.

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Response to bunnies (Reply #114)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:18 PM

117. I'm pretty sure it sounds like "Heeeeyyyy......Doriiiiitoooos."

 

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #117)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:22 PM

120. lol.

 

Ive no idea what youre talking about.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #117)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:31 PM

126. I felt so bad for her then. Sometimes i have trouble describing

sounds or actions verbally. I can do it in writing when I have time to think. Bit if somebody puts you on the spot like that, it's like don't you know what grass sounds like when you run your hand over it? And how it'd sound different wet?

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:19 PM

118. Shit does that 9-1-1 operator sound like an idiot!

One of the reasons I hate having to call them ... by the time you answer all their dumbass questions, you could be dead.
Jesus you could clearly hear the screams and the gunshot ... what more did the operator NEED?

"It's in dispatch" .... yeah gee thanks.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:26 PM

123. the 911 call tape

had so much yelling on it, while she was talking, couldn't they somehow remove her words and amplify and slow down the yelling to figure out what was being said/identify the voice?

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #123)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:32 PM

127. and why would a shooter yell like a banshee

when pulling the trigger? That makes no sense. To be screaming and yelling at the instant of aiming and shooting seems weird. In other words, the yelling stops after the shot, so it could not be the shooter who is yelling.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #127)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:41 PM

129. This is precisely my thinking!n/t

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #127)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:14 PM

137. Spot on! n/t

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #123)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:49 PM

130. There's only do much they can do

Phone call, not a great signal with lots of background noise and artifacts: then further muddied by the 911 system and the operator. Plus, depending on budget, many agencies will buy the least-expensive system they can, and the cheaper the system, the lower the resolution.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:55 PM

132. these dorks

"could the screams be from having THIS done to him" (showing photos of Z's widdle boo-boos with dramatic flourish) The jury probably thinking: Meh, my kids have looked like that falling off a swing.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:06 PM

134. I'm a little nervous where the prosecution is going with the Zimmerman question

I.e. regarding Zimmerman's prior restraining order.

I just worry it could open the door to the defendant's attack on Trayvon and his school record.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:12 PM

136. And is the witness following the brother's Twitter account?

Strange questions, eh?

Anyone here following it?

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #136)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:14 PM

138. yes interesting

and then she denied "knowing" about Z's prior history of assaults, saying she thought they meant had she "seen him violent" not if she knew about it.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #138)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:16 PM

139. has no idea why

her Twitter account is following Robert Zimmerman's account.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #139)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:17 PM

140. also friends with Z's pal on Facebook n/t

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #140)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:22 PM

146. but he's her neighbor who also heard something right?

So he friended her. And that's why Zimmerman targets her on Twitter? I am merely speculating here. Creepy to have shooter's brother spying on you.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #139)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:20 PM

142. She has zero tweets

she probably doesn't know. The prosecutor didn't know either. Is it possible Zimm's brother is following her?

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #138)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:21 PM

145. Who is this witness? No access to the trial feed right now.

Is she a friend of Zimmy or a hostile prosecution witness?

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #145)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:23 PM

147. She's one of the neighbor's

on the corner. Shooting took place behind her house. She called 911. The screams for help are on the tape. The Twittewr questions came out of nowhere at the end of the testimony.

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #145)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:36 PM

158. Lauer Jennifer I think is first name

had an attitude the whole time I figures she was sopoenaed because of her 911 call. Wonder why hubby was not? He looked out the window too?

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #158)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:40 PM

160. Thanks. Why do you think she had a attitude?

Did the prosecution call her as a hostile witness?

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #136)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:20 PM

143. The fools don't understand Twitter...

They are either Twitter recommendations or she has not set her Twitter account to approve follow requests... She plainly said that Zimmeran's brother is following her because the button next to his name said "Follow" not "Following.:

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Response to targetpractice (Reply #143)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:24 PM

150. Yes! That's what I heard

Those old farts. They have no computer saavy. Have to have a court reporter come turn the lights on and off too for their power points.

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #136)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:28 PM

154. I am so glad that the Prosecution did not ask the

witness about the Twitter stuff in front of the jury.

A point that should be made is that you can follow a twitter account without ever actually tweeting yourself. I have a twitter account that I do non personally use except to follow some other people/groups.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:20 PM

141. Looks like Zimmerman's brother is Twitter stalking the witnesses.

That's, um, interesting.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #141)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:20 PM

144. Indeed.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #141)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:23 PM

148. And Bob Dylan is P****D!

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #141)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:26 PM

151. My take is prosecutor was surprised too

He was trying to get her to admit bias. But instead finds out she's being stalked. Will change his whole strategy on this question!

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #151)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:28 PM

155. Never ask a question you dont know answer to.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #141)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:32 PM

157. He's also following Sabrina Fulton (Trayvon's mom)...

Ick.

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Response to targetpractice (Reply #157)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:41 PM

171. He is not helping things

Not one bit.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #141)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:43 PM

174. It makes sense.

I'm sure supporters on both sides of this case are watching everyone involved very closely.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #141)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:59 PM

178. Almost sounds like witnesss intimidation.

I could see it making some witnesses uncomfortable knowing that a relative of someone on trial for murder is following your activities online.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:26 PM

153. This whole thing gets weirder and weirder.

First the defense opens with that knock knock joke, followed by "Nothing? Bueller? Bueller?"

Now the brother is following witnesses on Twitter...

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:38 PM

159. New witness

a woman testifying in Spanish with an interpreter

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #159)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:41 PM

172. WTF?

OMara has her partially disrobing (shoes) and running back and forth in front of the courtroom (acting out her movements) after she heard the shot. This is bizarre.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:40 PM

161. Selma Mora, a construction salesperson

a citizen, from Columbia. Architect and Interior Designer

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #161)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:13 PM

180. She's good. And she bolsters the other girl's testimony. Trayvon's friend's,

I mean. Rachael? Is that her name? That makes Rachael look even better!

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:56 PM

162. Witness saw a person with a red and black patterned top on top of the scuffle!!!

That would match Mr. Zimmerman...

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #162)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:59 PM

164. She seems to be a pretty good

prosecution witness. It will be interesting to see how she holds up to the defence cross.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:02 PM

165. WOW! she saw Zimmerman straddeling Trayvon

"like riding a horse" immediately after the shot!!!!!!

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #165)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:17 PM

166. She is doing really well on cross. I don't think that the

Defense will able to do much to her.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #165)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:32 PM

168. I believe Zimmerman already said he was on top AFTER the shot

He said he rolled him and off and straddled him and pushed back his hands.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:37 PM

169. So glad there is a daily thread about this trial!

I haven't been on DU for a few days but am following/responding to the trial events via the "Justice for Trayvon" facebook page.

(I was kind of frustrated when the Jodi Arias trial was totally ignored here.)

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Response to MoonRiver (Reply #169)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:25 PM

176. the daily threads here are somewhat limited

 

I would recommend in addition....

Leatherman... Very pro-trayvon. Often a bit blind and emotional but lots of good nuggets on data and courtroom tactics. If you are anti-zimmerman, you will definitely love this site.

http://frederickleatherman.com/

TalkLeft... While not necessarily pro-anybody, definitely pro-defendant rights. Very liberal/ACLU-ish. Nonetheless, the most balanced place I know atm and more than willing to challenge either side.

http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php#c8

Thelastrefuge... Ultra-pro-zimmerman. Conspiracy minded which really clouds an otherwise massive storehouse of information on the case. All the info/rumors you DON'T want to know if you are anti-zimmerman. It is alleged they have close links to the defense team. Pretty much up-to-the-second updates like Leatherman's site.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com







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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:41 PM

170. The prosecutor is being a dumbass about the twitter account.

He's using the social networking suggestions to try to claim that she's following robert zimmerman.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:51 PM

177. TalkLeft: "Rachel Jeantel was a train wreck as a witness"

I'm not agreeing with this assessment since I didn't get to watch. But there seems to be a big divergence of opinion as to her effectiveness as a witness.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/6/26/223210/512/crimenews/-Rachel-Jeantel-Court-Antics-and-How-Martin-Profiled-Zimmerman

Rachel Jeantel was a train wreck as a witness. She did not help the state's case. She exposed the manipulations of Team Crump. She was impeached on a few significant matters (see below the fold.) And she admitted multiple lies. It was cringe-worthy but you couldn't take your eyes off it.

Most strikingly, she made Trayvon Martin out to be the profiler of Zimmerman. She said (on direct exam no less by the prosecutor) that shortly after first spotting Zimmerman, Martin described Zimmerman to her as a "Crazy-a*s Cracker" and later, described Zimmerman a few times as "this ni*ga" (as in this ni*ga following him.) The two minute clip above is of Rachel and the prosecutor repeating creepy a*s cracker over and over as the court reporter struggles to make out what she's saying, Rachel explaining that creepy as* cracker means a white person, then and expressing concern the creepy guy might be a rapist.

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Response to Shrek (Reply #177)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:09 PM

179. They're totally wrong. If she were the only witness, I'd still believe

her. I wouldn't necessarily have enough to convict if she were the only one. But, look at her in the context of the prosecution's other witnesses.

One, the defense attorney looked like a bully.
Two, it was obvious he was trying to trick her, confuse her. People don't like that.
Three, she stuck to her core facts.
Four, the defense attorney even pissed the judge off on both days, the way he treated her. The all-female jury will remember that very clearly.

ETA- And her testimony turns out to be consistent with the other witnesses' testimony and the timeline of phone calls.

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Response to Shrek (Reply #177)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:33 PM

182. "Train wreck" would be a good way to describe her

 

Some people here aren't objective due to the fact that it's probable that Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin, so they make excuses for her.

She was actually easier to understand in that clip at the link than in much of her morning testimony yesterday. They repeatedly had to have her repeat her answers.

From link:

She's belligerent, she thinks she's "the boss" and can run the show. I don't know how Don West kept a straight face when, after denying something a few times and then agreeing West was right and she was wrong, she started yelling at him, "You can go, you can go, you can go" as if giving him permission to continue asking questions. West was dumbfounded by her behavior, which made her keep yelling "you can go, you can go now.) Tracy Martin put his head in his hands at that. (At one point later, Mr. Martin was laughing as if in disbelief of her antics.) West patiently explained to her that sometimes his brain requires a few moments to formulate a question.


TM's father was crying and laughing in disgust at Rachel Jeantel testimony. It was bizarre.

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Response to Shrek (Reply #177)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:50 PM

187. I don't read TalkLeft often, but from perusing the site

Today, I'm not sure what's supposed to be "left" about it. They sure do love themselves some Zimmerman over there.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:32 PM

181. My heart goes out to this young lady.....

Ms Jeantel has obviously been thrust into a time and place that she didn't want and was not prepared to be. Can you imagine if a run of the mill phone call landed you in a situation like this?: A good friend dead and you a thrust into a media shitstorm. How would you react? Would you be coherent? Would you be a good witness? Who knows? I don't know if she has hurt or helped the case....No one really knows except for the folks sitting on that jury. I can only hope that they would see what I would want them to see but that is the case for folks on both sides of this case.

What I find interesting and saddening is that so many people are tearing this young girl apart for her testimony while ignoring an extremely ironic fact. Ms. Jeantel did not want to be here. She probably will always remember that phone call for the rest of her life. She is not "media pretty" or "articulate" as a lot of folks would choose to define it. And unfortunately, "it is what it is" in our system of jurisprudence whether we like it or not.

I just find it sad that the people willing to tear down this young lady, to mock her speech and in some cases to call her stupid will not discuss one salient fact before passing judgement on her: that the man who pulled the trigger on that fateful night that Trayvon Martin lost his life will probably not subject himself to the same public scrutiny that MS Jeantel has undergone. George Zimmerman will probably not take the stand. He will not have to explain under the glare and scrutiny of the public and media why he did what he did. He will probably not have to have his testimony parsed ad infiniteum about what he meant or about inconsistencies in what he said then versus what he is saying now. He will not have his intelligence questioned or asked about racial inferences in his statements.

And under our legal system, he has that right. I get it. But if Mr. Zimmerman felt that he had the absolute justification to take that young man's life then he should be able to go before the microscope of public scrutiny and say why he had the justification. And if we are going to castigate Ms Jeantel for not performing appropriately (at least according to some quarters) under the harsh spotlight of a major media trial, then we damn should ask why Mr. Zimmerman doesn't do the same.

Until then, in my book at least and whether she has been a good witness or not, she has a hell of a lot more courage that Mr. Zimmerman or his family has ever displayed.

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #181)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:02 PM

184. YES!!

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #181)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:16 PM

186. Brilliant. Thank you for the post.

"There but for the grace of the dominant cultural norms..."

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:09 PM

190. Catching up with Jeantel testimony. I think the prior transcripts of her initial statements

might contain a lot of transcription errors. For example, Zimmerman's attorney brought up her supposedly saying that Zimmerman asked Trayvon "What are you talking about?" She denied saying that. Based on how often she has asked Mr. West "what are you talking about," the "what are you talking about" that ended up on the transcript was probably a question to the lawyer and not a recounting of events.

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