HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Snowden is trapped in Mos...

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:44 AM

Snowden is trapped in Moscow

Snowden does not have Ecuadorian travel documents

But according to a senior official in Ecuador's foreign ministry on Wednesday, Mr. Snowden had no such pass. "He does not have any documents issued by the government of Ecuador, such as a passport or a refugee identification," said Galo Galarza, a senior ministry official. He didn't provide additional details.

Also Wednesday, Ecuador's foreign ministry said the country would consider whether to grant asylum to Mr. Snowden if he presents himself at one of the country's diplomatic missions


Looks like he is trapped.

An analysis of the commercial air routes available for a U.S. fugitive seeking to travel from Moscow showed that all necessary layover stops on the 7,000-mile route to Ecuador would be in countries that have extradition treaties with the U.S.—including Cuba, which has been working recently to improve U.S. ties and has so far received two flights from Moscow since Sunday without Mr. Snowden aboard.

"I think the fact that for three days in a row, Snowden hasn't gotten on the plane to Cuba begins to tell us something about how welcome he is in Havana," said Phil Peters, an analyst at the Cuba Research Center in Washington.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324328204578569270162405156.html?mod=trending_now_5

59 replies, 4084 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 59 replies Author Time Post
Reply Snowden is trapped in Moscow (Original post)
hack89 Jun 2013 OP
Whisp Jun 2013 #1
flamingdem Jun 2013 #14
flamingdem Jun 2013 #15
randome Jun 2013 #16
flamingdem Jun 2013 #23
randome Jun 2013 #27
flamingdem Jun 2013 #29
arely staircase Jun 2013 #59
bunnies Jun 2013 #2
hack89 Jun 2013 #8
bunnies Jun 2013 #10
flamingdem Jun 2013 #17
treestar Jun 2013 #3
Recursion Jun 2013 #9
treestar Jun 2013 #13
struggle4progress Jun 2013 #28
struggle4progress Jun 2013 #30
magical thyme Jun 2013 #4
hack89 Jun 2013 #6
former9thward Jun 2013 #5
hack89 Jun 2013 #7
KamaAina Jun 2013 #42
hack89 Jun 2013 #43
KamaAina Jun 2013 #44
flamingdem Jun 2013 #18
former9thward Jun 2013 #51
Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #11
Aerows Jun 2013 #12
flamingdem Jun 2013 #20
Brewinblue Jun 2013 #19
flamingdem Jun 2013 #21
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #32
Maximumnegro Jun 2013 #55
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #56
randome Jun 2013 #37
flamingdem Jun 2013 #41
JI7 Jun 2013 #47
hrmjustin Jun 2013 #22
flamingdem Jun 2013 #25
hrmjustin Jun 2013 #26
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #36
hrmjustin Jun 2013 #38
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #39
hrmjustin Jun 2013 #40
Cleita Jun 2013 #54
LiberalAndProud Jun 2013 #24
randome Jun 2013 #35
kelliekat44 Jun 2013 #31
flamingdem Jun 2013 #34
Comrade Grumpy Jun 2013 #50
flamingdem Jun 2013 #53
rsmith6621 Jun 2013 #33
Motown_Johnny Jun 2013 #45
flamingdem Jun 2013 #46
Cleita Jun 2013 #49
treestar Jun 2013 #58
Cleita Jun 2013 #48
flamingdem Jun 2013 #52
bike man Jun 2013 #57

Response to hack89 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:52 AM

1. now I'm feeling sorry for him again.

 

for being such a whiz bang smartypants he sure didn't do research on the getaway.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Whisp (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:20 PM

14. He can fly direct to Venezuela, if charts are right, to begin his Libertarian Retraining Bootcamp

They even include cassette tapes "Spanish for Spies"!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Whisp (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:25 PM

15. oops you're right he didn't think much, no direct flights to Caracas

that I can find now.

They stop over in Italy or Spain

oooops

Maybe he can go via some small country in Africa.. with a payoff.

Thus, this will cost somebody millions... wooo hooo

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flamingdem (Reply #15)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:27 PM

16. He only has so many laptops to pay his way.

 

Unless he has one like this:


[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font]
[hr]

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to randome (Reply #16)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:32 PM

23. So all the idealism gets reduced to who will pay to help Lil' Eddie

escape the gulag!

Putin said he's going to put asylum up for a vote.

My guess on that is there is no way out, he wants it resolved, but on his own timetable since his enemies are currently on trial and they cough wanted more civil liberties... so it's cover for the meantime.

Then he can make nice with the USA by controlling Eddie and reporting on his movements to the USA to gain a tad of favor.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flamingdem (Reply #23)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:35 PM

27. Wait, we forgot something. "I'm not trying to hide from justice here."

 

Guess that only applied to Hong Kong. And only until he could find a way to run and hide.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font]
[hr]

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to randome (Reply #27)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:39 PM

29. We're about to hear Ecuador say they'll take him because Obama wouldn't make a deal with them

to extend their billions of trade agreement that was coming up for renewal.

Since they figure they couldn't get that out of it they'll settle for poking at the USA.

Question is how he'll get there

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Whisp (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:19 PM

59. you'd think he'd know how to use the google

oh, well. he might as well just come on home.

game, set, match.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:54 AM

2. Shouldnt be a problem.

 



(snip)
Mr. Snowden could also reach Ecuador via a more elaborate route: A commercial cargo flight from Dakar, Senegal, to Quito. Senegal doesn't have an extradition treaty with the U.S. However, that scenario would require the cooperation of the German airline that operates the route, Deutsche Lufthansa LHA.XE +0.26% AG. A Lufthansa spokesman said the airline never transports civilians on its cargo flights and wouldn't accommodate Mr. Snowden.

Only three or four private jets are capable of making a nonstop flight from Moscow to Quito. Only the largest jets from Gulfstream Aerospace Corp., the G650 or G550, would be able to make the flight comfortably, with ranges in excess of the 7,200 miles between the two capital cities. A Bombardier Global 6000 XRS could also make the trip with one or two passengers, little luggage and favorable winds, according to the operations director at PrivateFly, a booking service for aircraft charters based near London.

PrivateFly calculated that such a one-way door-to-door charter, including all expenses, would cost $212,000.
(snip)


Didnt Tom Morello offer to pay?
http://www.tmz.com/2013/06/25/tom-morello-edward-snowden-nsa-leaks/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bunnies (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:44 AM

8. I wonder if aiding the flight of a fugitive is against US law?

I can't imagine anyone willing to risk jail just so Snowden can avoid jail.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:48 AM

10. hmm. Good question.

 

Guess we'll see how much in Snowdens corner Morello really is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bunnies (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:27 PM

17. Thanks! I was just about to check routes through Africa

or charters to see if anyone can make that flight.

I think his destination would be Venzuela now, a bit closer.

Ha ha let's see if Morello etc. want to take up a collection

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:58 AM

3. Was it Wikileaks that claimed the Ecuadorian travel document?

So they were just plain wrong, whoever it was.

He would have gone to Havana if he could have, so it's a sound conclusion that Cuba was not going to let him go onward or fail to return him to the U.S.

What happened to the private jet? If it could refuel in Senegal, that might work. He could get to Ecuador then. Or go to the Ecuadorian embassy in Dakar if there is one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:46 AM

9. For that matter, he could walk out of the airport and go to the Ecuadorean embassy

For those looking forward to a literal white Bronco chase.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Recursion (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:09 PM

13. He should be clever enough to find a way around the guards

James Bond always is!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Recursion (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:37 PM

28. He would need the official cooperation of the Russians to do that: the transit area is

a high security portion of the airport intended to simplify life for international travelers whose final destination is somewhere other than Russia. To leave the area, he'd pass through ordinary border controls like anyone else entering Russia from elsewhere

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:40 PM

30. Ecuador gave Snowden travel document, says WikiLeaks founder Assange

El País Madrid
24 JUN 2013 - 20:24 CET

... Ecuador granted a refugee document to former security contractor Edward Snowden, who is wanted by the United States for making public classified information, so that he could travel abroad to another country after Washington had revoked his passport, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange said Monday ...

http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/06/24/inenglish/1372098199_682355.html

St Julian is a fountain of misinformation

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:59 AM

4. Ecuador is not his only possible destination

 

and there are direct commercial flights to Venezuela.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to magical thyme (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:40 AM

6. There are no direct Moscow to Venezuela flights

Scheduled routes from Moscow to Caracas all involve a stop-off at a European city along the way, at which point the local authorities would be likely to intervene on behalf of the US.


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/26/snowden_needs_steve_jobs_jet_and_fast/print.html


Snowden needs a private jet.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:02 AM

5. You should recheck your Cuba extradition stuff.

Cuba has dozens of U.S. fugitives it is protecting including people who murdered law enforcement, hijackers, etc. They have refused all requests by the U.S. to return them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to former9thward (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:42 AM

7. True - but the Cubans are not stupid

there is a reason they are remaining quiet and Snowden is stuck in Moscow.

There is also the not so minor fact that Aeroflot's Moscow-Havana flight would normally pass right over Florida.


The Transportation Security Administration has its Secure Flight program under which it will refuse flights entry to US airspace based on their passenger manifest. Aeroflot's Moscow-Havana flight would normally pass right over Florida, and you can bet that the TSA would either refuse permission to such a flight carrying an Edward Snowden, or warn the Russians that the flight might be forced down.


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/26/snowden_needs_steve_jobs_jet_and_fast/print.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #7)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:09 PM

42. No reason the flight couldn't dip a bit to the east and south

 

because of "threatening weather in the area".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KamaAina (Reply #42)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:12 PM

43. The Russians do not want anything to do with Snowden

they have no reason to help him.

Besides - airliners fly over bad weather.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #43)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:26 PM

44. Well, they don't want their plane forced or shot down, either

 

and it would be a way for them to get rid of the hot potato.

I have been on flights that altered their course slightly to avoid weather.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to former9thward (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:28 PM

18. They have a new accord from 2006 - agreement not to take fugitives from the USA

Plus they have a lot on the line trying to improve relations

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flamingdem (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:55 PM

51. I don't know what the accord from 2006 says.

But there are a lot of down there the U.S. wants. The FBI just put a $1 million bounty ($2 million total) on one of them. http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2013/may/joanne-chesimard-first-woman-named-most-wanted-terrorists-list

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:56 AM

11. Have you ever been stuck at the airport? It's really frustrating.

And it gets old really quick.

So, I wonder if he will chance it, anyways.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #11)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:23 PM

12. I was stuck in one during Christmas time

 

3 minutes was too long. Damn place was packed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #11)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:29 PM

20. I'm sure he's out of the airport

They just don't want a media spectacle at:

ecuadorian embassy
venezuelan embassy

or

another place where they are draining his laptops!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:29 PM

19. Iran

Any reasons why a flight from Moscow to Tehran is not an option -- if there are any such flights that is? Convert to Islam and he could be a "rock star" over there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Brewinblue (Reply #19)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:30 PM

21. That's actually not a bad idea

He could probably get asylum over there lol

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flamingdem (Reply #21)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:45 PM

32. "lol" youre so funny!

 

Not!!

This guy gave up everything so you may know what NSA is doing to you, and you laugh.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #32)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:05 PM

55. He gave up voting for Libertarian nutjob

pro-gun teabaggers who want to cut Social Security (just like the EVIL CORPORATIST SHILL Barack Obama!!!) and the righteous life that goes with it so that we would know, uh, pretty much what we kind of knew all along but for some reason some people need the shizz to hit the fan aka too late before they're OH MY GOSH, THE NERVE!

The people who cry over Snowden and the NSA are frankly the same people who cause us to lose midterms over and over - they never get a clue until it's too late and by the time it's over they blame everyone else but themselves.

Let's see if these folks can quit clutching their pearls long enough to vote in 2014.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Maximumnegro (Reply #55)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:13 PM

56. This is not about parties. This is affecting everyone!

 

If you fail to see that I feel sorry for you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flamingdem (Reply #21)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:57 PM

37. Will they allow him to wear his red hood there?

 



[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font]
[hr]

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to randome (Reply #37)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:08 PM

41. Over there he'll be wearing a red

burka!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Brewinblue (Reply #19)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:34 PM

47. the problem is Ahmadinjead is leaving , and i think the new guy who will come in

isn't the type who just wants to stick it to the US. even if it is just for show and does nothing to help his country.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:32 PM

22. If he does get on a plane and it goes over US territory or an ally of the US can't they

 

force it to land? Seems to me he should go by boat.

It is his own fault he is stuck in Moscow.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hrmjustin (Reply #22)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:33 PM

25. Obama made it clear today that he won't "scramble any jets" over this

I think he's stuck there because he has no passport and no country wants to grant him passage to Venezuela.. and his "friends" won't cough up the money for a direct charter to Venezuela or Ecuador

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flamingdem (Reply #25)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:35 PM

26. I think if he is flying over the nation Obama will have to force the plane to land.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hrmjustin (Reply #26)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:56 PM

36. Wanna bet it wont happen?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #36)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:58 PM

38. Yes it is 50/50 in the end.

 

But he would be pressured to do it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hrmjustin (Reply #38)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:59 PM

39. No he wont.

 

Highjacking a foreign airline is not going to happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #39)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:02 PM

40. If it is over US airspace then he has the right to order any plane to land.

 

The reason I say this is almost all flight plans from Europe and Asia that go to South America go over US Airspace. Your right that he may not do it in the end but the pressure on him to do it will be strong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hrmjustin (Reply #22)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:59 PM

54. There's no point it it. The horse has left the barn.

They might as well let him be a fugitive for the time being until he trips up. There can't be any more harm done to them by him. What they should be doing is yanking all those spy contracts up in the private sector and putting them back where they belong, in the government, with the CIA and FBI.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:32 PM

24. "Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the son of man has no place


to lay his head.


Context is everything, I guess.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LiberalAndProud (Reply #24)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:56 PM

35. I assume he had a bed in his home in Hawaii.

 

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font]
[hr]

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:44 PM

31. Really, i don't care what happens to Snowden. I care about jobs for American families and the VRA

 

What Snowden did he did on purpose. He knew exactly what he was doing that is why he fled. Thousands of people are suffering through no fault of their own. I care about them. I deliver food, clothing where i can when i can. I tutor kids for free and volunteer at my grand children's elementary school when i can. And I check out DU in spare time. If the government wants to list my phone calls good. They will find out how much of a nuisance those telemarketers are. We don't have a government that is too big...it's not big enough. It may be more intrusive than many like but on the whole it's much better than most other governments.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kelliekat44 (Reply #31)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:51 PM

34. +1 Voting rights, climate change, + citizens united

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flamingdem (Reply #34)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:39 PM

50. Which is why you're spamming the board with Snowden slams?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #50)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:58 PM

53. + end the embargo on Cuba

Does the Comrade approve of this?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:48 PM

33. Yep..... Would Not want top rob a bank with him.


.... for sure a failure to plan properly. He should have stayed in Hong Kong. Putin is not going to let him stay forever.


Hey Ed, where is the get away car...... ah! oooops, I forgot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:30 PM

45. Maybe he needs to fly somewhere safe, then get on a boat

 



He needs to do something cool or else this part of the movie is gonna suck. Maybe parachute from a helicopter to a yacht.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #45)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:31 PM

46. There's a need for that to get him to Ecuador, I see a hacking through the Amazon

scene coming on. Maybe he get's dropped in the Colombian jungle and Farc helps him with his escape!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flamingdem (Reply #46)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:37 PM

49. Not a bad plot line either for a spy thriller. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #45)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:15 PM

58. Right on about the movie!

Some have suggested dressing as a woman. A Russian babe can lend him her passport so he can get into the country, then flee to St. Petersburg to get on a boat. Or more exciting, flee north to the Arctic and face some ice floes in the boat. Of course there has to be at least one good chase scene on the trip from the airport to the boat!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:36 PM

48. Somebody has to get some women's clothes and a wig and some contact lenses to him.

Then he can board the train from Moscow to a seaport on the North Sea where I'm sure he can find some smugglers willing to put him on a tramp steamer headed for Iceland. The Icelanders might give him temporary shelter. Any way if I were writing a spy thriller, this is a story line I would entertain.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cleita (Reply #48)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:52 PM

52. agree. Iceland and Moscow are much better backdrops

for a spy thriller vs. venezuela or ecuador

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:23 PM

57. Bummer. Buy the ticket, take the ride. nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread