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Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:56 PM

Let's be honest about Russia's role in the Edward Snowden matter

President Putin says that Snowden is a "ordinary transit passenger" who can travel wherever he wants. Except that he's not.

I am flying to Moscow in two hours, where I will also be a transit passenger (I'll let you know if I run into anyone). Except that I have an onward ticket to another destination. If I didn't have another ticket, the airline wouldn't let me on the plane. If they did, and I was denied entry or transit passage, the airline would be subject to fines as well as the cost of shipping me back where I came from.

Additionally, I can't just show up and enter the country. Russia requires a Visa for American citizens, and believe me, it's a time-consuming process to get one for an "ordinary" passenger. If Snowden has left the airport building (I don't think I'll run into him washing in the bathroom and sleeping on some seats), he would at least need a transit visa, which isn't much easier to get.

Bottom line -- the Russians knew he was coming in advance, invited him in, and in all probability have him tucked away at a hotel or other facility outside the terminal.

34 replies, 2950 views

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Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply Let's be honest about Russia's role in the Edward Snowden matter (Original post)
brooklynite Jun 2013 OP
monmouth3 Jun 2013 #1
Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #5
sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #2
flamingdem Jun 2013 #3
Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #7
railsback Jun 2013 #4
MADem Jun 2013 #6
flamingdem Jun 2013 #10
LineLineLineReply ?
ForeignandDomestic Jun 2013 #16
flamingdem Jun 2013 #17
MADem Jun 2013 #29
Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #8
flamingdem Jun 2013 #11
Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #12
flamingdem Jun 2013 #13
FarCenter Jun 2013 #14
Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #15
FarCenter Jun 2013 #20
Cha Jun 2013 #22
longship Jun 2013 #27
MADem Jun 2013 #30
pnwmom Jun 2013 #18
FarCenter Jun 2013 #9
pnwmom Jun 2013 #19
flamingdem Jun 2013 #21
MADem Jun 2013 #31
H2O Man Jun 2013 #23
DirkGently Jun 2013 #24
MADem Jun 2013 #32
GeorgeGist Jun 2013 #25
flamingdem Jun 2013 #28
elleng Jun 2013 #26
MADem Jun 2013 #33
struggle4progress Jun 2013 #34

Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:00 PM

1. It probably takes a while to download four laptops also...n/t

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Response to monmouth3 (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:13 PM

5. Our Fatherland Security does it in a few minutes.

 

But I suppose the pathetic commies over in russia haven't discovered newegg yet.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:04 PM

2. Let us know if you run into Snowden. Maybe you can make a citizen's arrest, or can we only do that

in our country?

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:04 PM

3. Yes they're up to their necks on this one, plus Putin lied by saying he's still in the airport

Snowden is bound to be at an embassy and the story will be he went there under diplomatic immunity, imo

I think it's the Venezuelan embassy, two people were seen exiting the airport before others and were picked up by a diplomatic vehicle sporting ecuadoran or venzuelan plates according to a Russian journalist.

I think they are on shakey ground obviously with that and the refugee document wasn't even signed so that was bogus.

The whole thing is a Wikileaks game facilitated by Putin who gains by creating a distraction from the trial of his enemies over ... civll rights issues in Russia, going on now.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:14 PM

7. maybe we can arrest putin.

 

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:05 PM

4. He seems to be in need of a country

 

I wonder how long Russia will let him stay there.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:14 PM

6. Of COURSE they knew. But maybe they bit off more than they could chew...

The phrase "too clever by half" comes to mind. About the only place they could stash him, aside from somewhere in Russia (in an embassy, or maybe as Gerard Depardieu's "computer guy" is in Cuba. Cuba, though, might not like that, as they inch towards normalization with USA as Fidel gets older and frailer.

Venezuela and Ecuador have to make a decision about their trade relations with the US. They make up only a small percentage of the US portfolio, but we make up a massive percentage of theirs. I'm betting that John Kerry has already told his counterparts in those nations that there will be serious consequences in the whole tariffs/trade theater if they try to harbor Runaway Ed.

If you see him, ask him how his Russian language lessons are going! He might need them...!

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Response to MADem (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:21 PM

10. Cuba can't be that dumb, I think Ecuador will take him

so they can curry favor with the left in Latam, and the rest of el mundo.

Correa figured he wasn't going to get the trade deal removed anyway, and then Sen. Menendez shot off his mouth threatening them .. add pride .. Snowden has a new home

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #10)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:40 PM

16. ?

 

Why would the left here in the USA have a problem with the left in Latin America?

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Response to ForeignandDomestic (Reply #16)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:41 PM

17. How did you understand that from what i wrote, i used el mundo - whole world

because yes it's more than the left in Latin America

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 04:06 AM

29. Correa knows that Menendez isn't the decider, though. He knows all roads lead through John Kerry.

He also knows that if he turns his back on US trade with preferential tariffs, that there will be increased unemployment in his country. I think there's still some discussion going on--the fist waving and drama are all for the cameras.

One way it could be made to work for him is if China does some SERIOUS debt forgiveness (he owes them a bundle). I can't see them doing that (though it could happen)--they like having people over a barrel. They also like a bit of tension, the tug and yank of economic interests intersecting.

Someone has to step up and tell Correa "Hey dude, we'll buy your roses and broccoli and bananas and so forth," and they'd better do it on the same or similar terms as USA does, otherwise there will be adverse effects in Ecuador. For us, it's not a big deal--we can find other outlets for what Ecuador sells us. I will say they provide very good product, reliable, well packaged, nicely shipped, no e-coli or other recall problems, so we do benefit as well, but we aren't up against it the way they are.

If they "take" Snowden, they may well just shove him in the trunk and take him to the Moscow Embassy. Then he can compare notes with his 'pal' Julian (who keeps trying to steal his limelight) about who has the nicest room at the Hotel Ecuador!!!

The only way Cuba would do it, I agree, is if someone stepped up to the plate and replaced the cash that flows to their island by way of US people-to-people programs, the limited trade we do with them on a humanitarian basis, and the money sent by family members back to the island. That latter piece is problematic--people now are allowed to send money home to their family, and they wouldn't want to have to go back to the old "sneak it out through Canada/Mexico" routine of years past.

I wonder if Snowden has run out of underwear, yet, and has had to use the sink in the men's room to do his laundry? Such a glamorous life 'in transit' ... ugh !

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:17 PM

8. How to get into a transit zone and stay there.

 

1. have a ticket to transit zone airport.
2. have a ticket to somewhere from transit zone airport, for example Havana.
3. get off airplane at transit zone airport.
4. don't get on airplane to somewhere from transit zone airport.

Please keep this information to yourself. It is highly confidential.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:22 PM

11. Snowden would need a visa to leave the transit area

He's not there. It's a small hotel and there's a ton of reporters watching all movement there.

They've warped the rules again and have him in an embassy where he can be more comfy imo

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #11)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:24 PM

12. So you think that Russia should always follow international law to the letter in all instances?

 

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:25 PM

13. Why would I care, I just share my observations nt

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:31 PM

14. I think he really did have tickets to Moscow and onward to Ecuador when he left Hong Kong

 

However, just as he precipitously decided to leave Hong Kong, once he got to Moscow he decided not to go on to Ecuador.

Possibly he thought that the Cubans would not guarantee safe passage. Possibly he thought that Ecuador would not grant asylum once he arrived.

Either he got cold feet, or possibly Moscow was his intended destination as a second choice after Beijing.

It's hard to tell who's using who in this drama. Greenwald, Assange, and Snowden each have their own interests. Not that the Wikileaks legal team are not representing Snowden. We haven't heard from Sarah Harrison, nor from Assange recently. And Greenwald and the Guardian seem to have been cut out of the action by the South China Morning Post some days ago.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #14)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:39 PM

15. Possibly he thinks a great power is a better shot at staying out of prison for 30 years.

 

My guess is that the transit zone is a convenience and that the plan from the outset, negotiated with the russians in advance was to go to moscow and stay there for "a while". We've shit on Russia since the collapse of the USSR. Payback is a bitch.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #15)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:48 PM

20. I think that he thought Hong Kong really would/could give him asylum as a celebrity whistleblower

 

He was probably encouraged to believe this by Greenwald and Poitras. Recall also that he and his girlfriend made and earlier trip, and he could have scouted out sympathetic groups in Hong Kong at that time. These would tend to encourage him, particularly if they did not actually know who he was or the scope of what he would reveal.

When he found out that asylum in Hong Kong was unlikely, he began improvising with the help of Wikileaks. Since then, his decision making has deteriorated in the face of ever poorer options.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #20)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:58 PM

22. Interesting theory, FarCenter.. thank you.

Because none of this makes any sense to me.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #20)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 12:55 AM

27. You are reading my mind.

It really is the only thing that makes sense and is in line with the reportage.

We really have not heard from Assange or Harrison in a few days. So, inevitably in that vacuum people are beginning to make shit up. I presume we'll next read here that Snowden's getting his fingernails pulled out for his pass phrases while Putin himself Hoovers his laptops and thumb drives. I have heard nearly as much here.

I have no patience for wild speculations. It's okay to say I don't know.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 04:15 AM

30. He wanted Assange's lawyer, and that lawyer declined to take him on as a client.

Perhaps the lawyer saw the difference between receiving classified materials and distributing it...?

This is the whole piece from the below-cited link:

MADRID--Spanish lawyer Baltasar Garzon said Wednesday he had turned down a request to join the legal advisory team of U.S. intelligence leaker Edward Snowden.
In a short statement by his law firm ILOCAD SL, the former judge said he would continue to serve as senior legal council for WikiLeaks and to represent its founder Julian Assange "in the defense of the fundamental right to freedom of information and expression."
Mr. Snowden, who is wanted by the U.S. for allegedly leaking details of U.S. domestic and international surveillance operations, is currently believed to be holed up in an airport transit zone in Moscow.
He has formally requested asylum in Ecuador, and the country has already said it would consider the request.



Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/spanish-lawyer-garzon-says-decided-not-to-represent-snowden-20130626-00644#ixzz2XUqtARTF

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:43 PM

18. But I read somewhere you can only stay in a transit zone for 24 hours

without a special visa.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:17 PM

9. He doesn't need a visa to access the Capsule Hotel

 

Hotel “V Express”

Moscow International Airport Sheremetyevo invites you to stay in a new Capsule Hotels V-Express. Comfortable economy, business and first class rooms are at your service. These rooms include everything that you need for having a rest, recovering your strength and flying in a good mood.

V-Express built on the basis of European Capsule Hotels. Primary difference from Japanese analogue is that rooms of “V-Express” Hotel not so much look like capsules as resemble cabins of cruise liner. To stay in such room is unalloyed pleasure- soft lighting, exquisite interior in light colors make you feel lightness and comfort.

Capsule Hotel at Sheremetyevo gives a nice opportunity to pass the time before a flight. Designers of a Hotel complex took care that everything in the room was maximum comfortable and caused only positive emotions. Rooms in one part of a Hotels at Sheremetyevo have a beautiful land view. Rooms in other part designed in such way that nonexistence of windows in no case affected the comfortable staying of the guests. Rooms designed in light colors due to which it is created a feeling of light and airiness.

We provide not only with opportunity to have a rest, but also to dispatch of current business. Every room is equipped with internet access. When waiting you may check your e-mail, continue business messaging or communicate with friends. New format of Capsule Hotel at Sheremetyevo Airport based on optimum combination of comfort and availability of hotel service. The concept of Capsule Hotels ideally suited for such big traffic centers as Sheremetyevo Airport, because the hotel includes adequate number of rooms located within a small space.

On our website you can find hotel room rates: prices depend on room class and accommodation time. In case of prolonged staying it is used the hourly payment, you can see all information about it on the website of our Capsule Hotels.

Special rates for 4-hour stay, hourly rates starting from 4 hours. Sheremetyevo Airport, Terminal E, Clean & Transfer area.

The only hotel in Sheremetyevo, located in the area after passport control, which makes the stay of transfer passengers at the airport more comfortable and enjoyable. The capsule hotel is located in the terminal "E" directly between Mother-and-child room and the First Aid post.

There are different class 66 rooms. Despite the small size of rooms (from 7.5 to 22 square meters), they are equipped with everything you need — individual bathroom, telephone and Internet, a modern security system. One of the advantages is its location in the Aeroexpress terminal, where guests have the opportunity to use the wide infrastructure of the terminal, visit the cafes, restaurants and shops.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:44 PM

19. No, but he does to stay in transit more than 24 hours.

You will note that the rates they quote are for 4-hr. stays.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #19)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:51 PM

21. Now that's a fact we can work with -- he breaking that rule

along with about 500 other ones!

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #9)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 04:30 AM

31. They look like shipping containers, tricked out with beds, doors and windows!

The following articles are all from the Voice of Russia, which might as well be called The Mouth of Putin...but whatever:


It has been confirmed that fugitive US whistleblower Edward Snowden had holed up at an airside capsule hotel at Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport, but has recently moved out, Russian media say.
“He [Snowden] spent several hours here, but he checked out long ago,” reporters were informed at the reception desk of Sheremetyevo’s Air Express Hotel in Terminal E.
According to the source with the hotel staff, a group of journalists settled down at this base hotel almost at the same time as Snowden did, but the whistleblower managed to avoid them.
Another informed source told Russia’s RIA-Novosti news agency Snowden still remains in the airport’s transit area.
Read more: http://english.ruvr.ru/news/2013_06_26/Snowden-moved-out-of-Sheremetyevo-airport-capsule-hotel-8480/


A former CIA employee, Edward Snowden, believed to have been staying in the Sheremetyevo airport transit area, may have obtained a transit Russian visa that’s valid for 72 hours, a source that’s familiar with the situation has told the RIA-Novosti news agency.
If transit passengers have a ticket to fly to another destination, as well as visas to enter third countries they may get a transit Russian visa. If Snowden is in possession of such documents, he has the right for a transit Russian visa at a consular service, right at the airport, and he may have done this, the source said.
According to the RIA-Novosti news agency, Snowden has twice reserved tickets for the Moscow-Havana flight, for June 24th and 25th . But he was not found aboard the plane the first time, while reservation for Tuesday’s flight was removed just hours before the takeoff. A document allowing the entry to a third country could be a refugee document to enter Ecuador that the Ecuadorean authorities have given him, something the WikiLeaks whistle-blowing website, which provides Snowden with legal support, reported earlier.
Under Russian law, foreigners may get a transit Russian visa at Russian Foreign Ministry consular offices abroad, but in an emergency, they may likewise get such visas at the expressly set-up consular points at Sheremetyevo or Domodedovo airports.
Read more: http://english.ruvr.ru/news/2013_06_26/Snowden-may-get-Russian-transit-visa-source-0878/


The former CIA employee Edward Snowden has had his passport revoked; he therefore cannot buy a flight ticket and is forced to remain at Sheremetyevo Moscow airport’s transit zone, a source close to the whistleblower has told the Interfax news agency.
Snowden’s US passport has been annulled, he carries no other documents proving his identity, so he is compelled to stay at the airport’s transit zone, since he cannot either enter Russia, or buy a flight ticket, the source said.
Read more: http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_06_26/Snowden-stays-transit-area-of-Sheremetyevo-because-his-passport-was-revoked-source-2715/




U.S. National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden did not stay at the capsule hotel of Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport but only entered there for a couple of minutes to ask for the prices, an airport employee said.
"Yes, I saw Snowden, he stopped by here to see the pricelist but decided not to stay here. He is not here now, either," an employee from the capsule hotel's reception in Sheremetyevo's terminal E said. "Someone just pulled this hoax, and everybody believed it," she said.
The hotel is comprised of slightly more than 40 small rooms looking like capsules, some of them without windows. Each room has a bed, a table, a shower cabin and a WC.
None of the Sheremetyevo employees could say anything about Snowden's current whereabouts.
Read more: http://english.ruvr.ru/news/2013_06_27/Snowden-did-not-stay-at-Sheremetyevo-Airports-capsule-hotel-employee-0366/


It's really a game of Where's Waldo....who knows what the deal is? Maybe he's hiding in a stall in the airport crapper, sitting on the throne, clicking away at his laptop...?

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:59 PM

23. How un-American

of them!

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:01 PM

24. I remember when people used to defect from Russia to the U.S.


... and old Soviet Union made dire, impotent threats to anyone harboring them.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #24)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 04:34 AM

32. That was a two way street....

Lee Harvey Oswald defected, married, lived there for awhile, came home, and killed JFK.

There were a few others as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_defectors_to_the_Soviet_Union

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:18 PM

25. Assuming he's alive.

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #25)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 01:00 AM

28. Now that's one theory I haven't heard

kicked around, yet

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:24 PM

26. I think I've heard there's a 'Transit hotel' at the airport.

Makes sense. That's probably where he's been hanging out.

Wouldn't take them very long to get him Transit Visa, when he was in 'limbo' in HK, probably, if ruskies wanted to do so.

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Response to elleng (Reply #26)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 04:35 AM

33. It's very expensive. One report says he stayed there for a bit, another report says he asked

about the price, and then didn't take the room.

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Response to elleng (Reply #26)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 04:43 AM

34. If he's still at the airport, the better guess might be he's not in a public area

Beyond the hotel and shops and lounges accessible to the public from the transit zone corridor, there are quite a lot of "behind the scenes" areas not available to the public: areas where security or pilots or flight crews or other workers might have lounges or perhaps even overnight accommodations

The Russians may have him stashed there. Or they might have spirited him out of the airport completely. Or maybe it's all part of a bigger game, and he never went to Russia

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