My dear DU friends of all stripes

[arely staircase]

I am afraid of what is happening. I think you are about to be asked to chose between the elected, constitutional, and often very wrong civilian leadership of this country and very powerful men that you were never given a chance to vote for but who are in positions of great power. Civilian control of the military is essential to the survival of our Republic. Don't be a sucker, don't get behind some powerful general who seems to be on your side at whatever given time. That is why we have elections. Our founders knew we should put those generals under the control of our Elected President (Art. 2, US Constitution). For all our problems THAT is what separates us from tyranny, civilian control of the most powerful military ever. Look within your hearts. Don't be on the wrong side of history, I beg you.

Think.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Wait. You're suggestion we're on the brink of a military coup?

[dkf]

4. They don't need a coup. They've got all the info they need to get the result they want.

We will never know if things happen because of choice or manipulation.

[Whisp]

5. see this link for context:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3116284

[Whisp]

2. I was really shocked at some of those comments...

and I thought nothing could do that to me anymore here.

unbelievable.

[cali]

3. I'm confused. What Have I missed?

I agree that civilian control of the armed forces is vital, but have I missed some plan for a coup?

What are you talking about? Is it the ex-general who may have been a leaker? How is that an affront to the President's control of the military?

[quinnox]

6. WTF, This is *High Drama* indeed

Last edited Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:53 PM - Edit history (2)

Ok, after finding out what this refers too, and what the reality is, compared to what the OP is hinting at, they are very far apart. About the same as saying a news story about a satellite malfunctioning near Mars *must be the work of Aliens*, for example.
I suggest laying off the alcohol, or suggest seeing one too many spy thriller movies lately can lead to strange fantasies about news happening in the real world.

[patrice]

7. Context please.

[Cali_Democrat]

34. US general is under a DOJ investigation for leaking classified information

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/justice-dept-targets-general-in-leak-probe/2013/06/27/9ad8bc4e-df7c-11e2-b2d4-ea6d8f477a01_story.html

Scary. Looks like the general may have tried to undermine the administration. Also he was passed up by Obama for joint chiefs position.

[Buzz Clik]

9. This place has stripped all its gears. I need a vacation from this sanitorium.

Starting now.

Jesus Fucking Christ!

[arely staircase]

10. when we decide the generals, "hoss" cartright or otherwise

will protect our liberties, we have stripped our gears. people here are already praising this guy.

[Whisp]

11. kick for some sunshine on the sanitorium. n/t

[arely staircase]

13. Sadly some are siding with Gen "Hoss" Cartright here - calling him a hero

over their elected president.

Taking the side of the generals over the elected president NEVER brings more freedom.

But I don't want to attack anyone. I just want everyone to think very hard about the repercussions of siding with a general over the president that was constitutionally and democratically elected to command that general.

[winter is coming]

15. Who are we allowed to "side with" instead of the President?

I'd like to know who's on your list of approved others.

I'd also like to know why we're required to choose sides, much less choose them absolutely. It's possible for people to be right about some things and wrong about others. Agreeing with people when they're right and disagreeing when them when they're wrong isn't disloyalty; it's common sense.

[arely staircase]

16. people here are already praising this man

just look up and down the GD threads.

[winter is coming]

20. And you interpret that as an imminent threat to civilian authority because...? n/t

[arely staircase]

24. imminent no, but a slow rolling attempt to put military authority above civilian leadership

all in the name of the bad civilian leadership's "spying" on Americans. We already have DUrs talking about how great an unelected general is for breaking his civilian chain of command and leaking intel info to the press. And the intel isn't even about domestic communications. It is a general supposedly who leaked how we apparently were behind the virus/worm that clogged up the Iranian nuclear program.

And he is another "great man" leaker.

Dangerous stuff.

[winter is coming]

26. Oh, bullshit. There's zero evidence that Cartwright's actions represent a concerted attempt

to "put military authority above civilian leadership". Our government has done a lot of things it shouldn't have, and exposing that isn't more wrong than the things being brought to light. It's pretty insulting to believe that the President's leadership is so fragile that it can't weather some embarrassing leaks.

[winter is coming]

12. PUI?

Paranoia undermines intelligence.

One general says he's being investigated for a leak and you transform that into a military coup?

[siligut]

27. An EX-general and the leak happened during the 2012 election campaign

As soon as the Times report appeared, Congressional leaders demanded a criminal probe, and president Obama said he had “zero tolerance” for “these kinds of leaks.” Republicans charged that senior administration officials had leaked the details to bolster the president’s national security credentials during the 2012 campaign.

Ditto on the

[kentuck]

14. We have heard the crap for so long about letting the Generals decide what is best...

How many times have we heard people like John McCain say that we should trust the judgement of the generals on the ground? If the military says we need to do something, then we should be listening to the military. We have heard that consistently for the last 12 years. The executive branch abrogated its responsibilities to the military in many instances. It was a terrible precedent.

[Amonester]

17. I think that that leaker General wants to stir up sh*t in the hopes it will start a war

for oïl

[octoberlib]

19. Thinking the same thing.

War is very profitable for a lot of people.

[Amonester]

22. Yep. And in general, Generals have connection$ in high places...

This whole story stinks to high heaven, IMO.

[patrice]

25. McCain is the one who put indefinite detention under the Sec Def in that NDAA (2010?11? - I forget)

McCain and Carl Levin.

[octoberlib]

18. I've never trusted the military enough to get behind any General.

McChrystal was insubordinate too when he did all that crap behind the administration's back to prolong the war in Afghanistan. I think they have too much power. We don't know what Cartwright's motivations were. Money? Revenge because he got busted acting inappropriately with a military aide?

[Amonester]

21. Revenge because he got busted wanting a bomb-bomb-bomb, bomb-bomb

Iran song... And our President said: no?

[octoberlib]

23. +1 nt

[msongs]

28. this thread is the first time ive seen this on du. hardly a revolution in the making nt

[Hissyspit]

29. Yeah, I think all the time.

In "Seven Days in May," a military man plots a coup, and another military man prevents it.

[HardTimes99]

30. Who is praising the general who allegedly leaked? I've read the other thread and

heard or read no praise for the general's alleged leaking.

I think you are using the allegations of the general's leak to try to impugn the patriotism of those who support Snowden's leaks. Sort of a sneaky 'guilt by association' play, once removed. That is, your argument suggests that those who support Snowden may also support the General's alleged leak, like somehow those who support Snowden are dupes for the military's usurpation of the Constitution.

Snowden: leaks details of massive government spying on Americans and other civilians, in gross violation of the Fourth Amendment.

Hoss: allegedly leaks details of a covert op against Iran.

Not all leaks are created equal and your post insults the intelligence of DUers by presuming they are unable to make the distinction between the two.

And that's not even to mention the alarmism and histrionics that infuse your OP; there's no military coup, no imminent coup. The only coup I've seen in the US was back in 2000 and its instigators were the SCOTUS.

[Poll_Blind]

31. LOL! Dude, you just gave me the "Don't go out with a black girl" speech my mom did when I was 17

First, I wanna be up front- what you said has nothing to do with race or anything like that. I'm not claiming that. But that, what you said, I'll forever know that as the "Don't go out with a black girl" speech my mom gave me when I was a junior in high school, because there was this black girl I was thinking about dating.

"Mom loves you. You know that. I'm sure you like this girl and I'm sure she likes you too. And I'm sure she's pretty. Isn't she? I bet she is. (pause, head tilt) But if you go out with this girl...there's going to be all sorts of problems. Problems you didn't expect. People will cause problems, maybe big problems, for you and her around here. I know I can't change your mind if that's what you want to do. But I'm asking you, because I love you, not to go out with this girl.

It's just...going...to...cause...all...kind...of...problems."

That's not quite it but close enough. It's been forever.

Arley, I think I speak for all of us when I say we're real glad and all that you don't want us to mistakenly support a putch against a duly-elected Democratic official.

We don't want that either.

We're going to have opinions that're different from yours or, maybe, the exact same. But let's all remember that we can have different opinions and not be, ahem, on the wrong side of history...eh?

PB

[HardTimes99]

32. +Infinity! - nt

[SwampG8r]

33. i agree

come together people
all the other shit is nothing compared to this
this isn't civilian employees exposing possibly unconstitutional facts
this is the us military losing the trust of the people
a high level member of the us military does not "leak"
this more Arnold than Revere and it undermines our nation

[GeorgeGist]

35. Think.

Who declared war on Iran?