U.S. bugged EU offices, computer networks

[Ichingcarpenter]

(Reuters) - The United States bugged European Union offices and gained access to EU internal computer networks, according to secret documents cited in a German magazine on Saturday, the latest in a series of exposures of alleged U.S. spy programs.
Der Spiegel cited from a September 2010 "top secret" document of the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) which it said fugitive former NSA contractor Edward Snowden had taken with him and which the weekly's journalists had seen in part.

The document outlines how the NSA bugged offices and spied on EU internal computer networks in Washington and at the United Nations, not only listening to conversations and phone calls but also gaining access to documents and emails.

The document explicitly called the EU a "target".



http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/29/us-usa-eu-spying-idUSBRE95S0AQ20130629?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=992637

[villager]

1. According to many here, if we spied on them, they were -- by definition -- an "enemy"

I guess we must have lots of enemies.

Never mind the Pogo definition, the NSA was working with...

[Ichingcarpenter]

5. Trying to find out how to do

socialized medicine and other progressive things.. LOL

This will cause an uproar in Europe.

[WillyT]

2. K & R !!!

[morningfog]

3. Cue the apologists! "The EU is not an ally!"

[Recursion]

42. We spy on allies too, and they spy on us

Not sure why you'd think they aren't an ally.

[temmer]

56. Proof that the US embassies in Berlin, Paris, Brussels are spied upon?

This is not "business at usual".

Heads must roll. Clapper, Alexander.

[Recursion]

60. Australia, the UK, and Israel have all spied on us in the past two decades. Did heads roll? (nt)

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. USA, USA, USA!!! You see, we can do that,

but will howl when others do it to us.

Granted, we spy on them, they spy on us, that's tuesday... but this will lead to a nasty diplomatic row, to use the british term. I am guessing folks here do not get it... but I think we just crossed to rogue state.

[Ichingcarpenter]

7. 'The Target' quote

sounds like something expressed with North Korea or Iran.

[pnwmom]

6. Yes, and it is just so helpful that Snowden has revealed all this,

because no al Queda ever need to be tracked in Europe. How fortunate the United States is to have Snowden to decide he knows better than the people we actually elected to make these decisions.

[The Link]

8. Terra!

Threat level midnight.

[flamingdem]

9. This is probably Assange inspired, he's into attacking the EU since they want his hiney in prison

Some people fail to see that this is not about Snowden's purported purpose of enlightening Americans and the 4th amendment.

This is creating chaos between countries and it's a Libertarian dream of undermining governments.

[morningfog]

12. Any opinion on the US bugging EU offices?

[flamingdem]

13. My opinion is that it's not Snowden's job to create international problems

for the sake of his "cause". Whatever that is we can see he'll spew his info to just about anyone about anything.

[morningfog]

15. Any opnion on the US bugging EU offices?

You misunderstood the question the first time I asked.

[think]

26. More like

selective reading than misunderstanding. it's like selective hearing only in written form.

But it was nice of you to be polite....

[pnwmom]

14. My opinion is they're probably bugging ours as well.

[morningfog]

16. You think that EU nations are bugging US government offices?

And, you're okay with that? These are allies. I remember you dismissed the spying on Russia and China as not allies. Are you moving the old goalposts in an effort to dismiss spying on true allies now?

[pnwmom]

20. I'm not moving goalposts. When people called Russia and China allies,

that was laughable.

EU is an ally, so that's a separate issue. But no, I don't really care. Major countries have been spying on each other forever. All that's changed are the methods.

[morningfog]

23. Can you just admit that you will defend anything and everything the Obama Adminsitration will

ever do?

They are infallible, aren't they?

And, yes, you are moving goalposts.

[pnwmom]

31. Can you just admit you decided Snowden was a hero on day 1,

despite knowing almost nothing about him or his motives, and you don't care how much damage he does to our relations with other countries?

[morningfog]

34. I dont' give a rat's ass about Snowden.

I am glad that information is being made public. The avenues to public release do not concern me. I have no opinion on Snowden as a person. I care only about what is being done by our government and to whom.

I do rather enjoy watching how the blind defenders have to change and modify their positions with each new revelation. As we know, this is the tip of the iceberg. Good luck moving forward! LOL

[flamingdem]

37. You have no idea of the damage/help that Snowden's revelations will cause

So you are the blind one my friend.

You're operating here with a deficit of information and a deficit of common sense.

[morningfog]

40. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

As President Obama said on day one: "I firmly believe that Justice Louis Brandeis once said, that sunlight is the best disinfectant, and I know that restoring transparency is not only the surest way to achieve results, but also to earn back the trust in government without which we cannot deliver changes the American people sent us here to make."

Don't lose sight that it is the acts and secrets of our government that would be the cause of any damage, not the exposure of their existence.

[flamingdem]

46. Then why doesn't Snowden come back to the USA and make his case?

He clearly doesn't believe that and Assange is about manipulating the law, as seen with the document kerfuffle with Ecuador.

None of that is on the up and up. Now they can't even admit where they are?

[morningfog]

48. Why does that matter to the over reaching policies of the US?

[flamingdem]

51. Switching subjects, moving goal posts I see nt

[morningfog]

54. Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

I said I don't care about Snowden, but only what our government has done. You said I can't know the damage. I said the damage rests with our government, not the exposure of what they do. You brought it back to Snowden and his motives. I reiterated, as I did originially, that Snowden is not relevant to the government's policies and acts.

Read through the exchange a few more times. I am sure you can find where you were lost. You are the one with a staying on subject problem.

[flamingdem]

57. Personal attack, right on cue nt

[morningfog]

59. This is hilarious.

I can see that there is no use in engaging with you.

[Comrade Grumpy]

35. Gulping koolaid by the gallon. n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. IF the US Senate and House of Representatives

were tapped by EU think about that..... searching for al Queda excuse...

what a dumb point

[morningfog]

11. Are you suggesting that AQ may have connections and communications with EU offices?

[pnwmom]

17. information may be accessible there that could help in tracking al Queda.

That does NOT mean AQ is communicating directly with EU.

[morningfog]

21. Following your logic, these allies can't be trusted to help us?

We need to bug their office to get what they know?

[pnwmom]

24. Since they don't have access to all the information we do, they wouldn't always know

what would help us; and their interests might not always accord with ours, just because they are allies.

[morningfog]

25. Again, we can't trust them to turn over that which we find useful?

These are incredible mental gymnastics you are attempting to justify something you know deep down is wrong.

[pnwmom]

30. "That which we find useful"? How would we have known to ask for it, if we didn't see it?

And they might not know everything that would be useful to us, either, since they don't have all the pieces of OUR puzzles.

[morningfog]

33. They would if you are correct in your assumption that they are bugging us.

I assume that our top diplomats and intel gatherers are effective enough communicators that they can work with allies to sufficiently explain what it is we are looking for and what it is we need.

You are practicing some incredible double think, because clearly you start from the position of "how can this be defended?" Rather than, "Is this right or wrong?"

[pnwmom]

45. Two sets of eyes can look the same data and see different things

depending on their perspective.

As is evidenced daily on DU.

[Comrade Grumpy]

38. Your logic is impeccably totalitarian.

Anything goes in the forever war against the boogeyman.

[morningfog]

41. It is a sight to behold.

[KoKo]

22. Information could also be sold to Wall Street Traders, who have great interest

in what the EU is doing and decisions they are making economically. Since we know the NSA uses Private Outside Contractors...then any one of those collectors of info could be sending it on to Wall Street Traders or even Multinational Corporations who could profit from decisions made in EU Policy.

This needs to be investigated as to who authorized this spying on EU and what Private Contractors did the actual monitoring.

[zeemike]

62. When you think about it, that could be a money maker.

For Wall Street...And for some NSA contractors that got the kick back.

[flamingdem]

18. Was known more than 5 years ago meaning BUSH enjoy being played by Assange et al

Without citing sources, the magazine reported that more than five years ago security officers at the EU had noticed and traced several missed calls to NSA offices within the NATO compound in Brussels.

[morningfog]

58. The article states that the EU was a target for bugging in 2010.

That was 3 years ago and Obama was president then.

[mindwalker_i]

28. So just to get this straight

Our government created this massive apparatus to spy on al-Qaeda, then used it to spy on the EU. They collected all the phone records and possibly the actual converssations of U.S. citi- I mean consumers. The laws were changed in secret, or the interpretations were secret, so it wasn't breaking the law. But the guy who told us about it is evil.

Gotcha

[cali]

44. Are you actually defending this practice?

and do explain how bugging EU offices and listening in on phone calls in those offices, has helped track A-Q in Europe.

[pnwmom]

49. I'm not condemning it.

One, I don't know if the report is accurate. Two, I don't know the history behind it. Three, I don't know if it has proven to give us any critical information, or if it's just a waste of resources. So I"m reserving my opinion on it.

But I elected Obama and my Congress people to make these decisions, not Ed Snowden.

[flamingdem]

53. This info is 5 years old and the EU knows about it already

This is probably more snow being throw up to cover for an awkward situation.

Wikileaks is looking bad! They can't manage their latest leaker with much grace.

[whatchamacallit]

19. So?

[Enthusiast]

36. That's what Dick Cheney said.

[Savannahmann]

27. Do we have any friends we haven't spied upon?

Seriously? Anyone?

[Ichingcarpenter]

29. Wall Street, Major Banks, Monsanto

Oil corporations, Koch brothers... etc.

[Enthusiast]

39. Those corporations are not socialist, the EU is, kinda.

Justification enough.

[Recursion]

43. No, nor any that don't spy on us.

Israel, Australia, and the UK have all had spies caught in the US

[temmer]

32. this is a global issue

- repost from a duplicate thread -

For US citizens, the biggest scandal is certainly the wiretapping of the own people and the question of constitutionality.

There are obviously strong forces under way to lull the people and downplay the Orwellian character of the NSA programs.
Even here on DU. "Snowden is a traitor!" "Snowden cheats in billiard!"

But as NSA/GCHQ are obviously wiretapping everything, everyone, everywhere, the US government will not get away with riding this out.

Heads must roll. Alexander, Clapper.

[Brewinblue]

47. Nothing to see here folks except egregious violations of law, treaties, and the constitution.

Now move on.

[temmer]

50. Europeans are furious - biggest embaressement for US so far

bigger than Prism or Tempora because terrorism is no excuse here.

[flamingdem]

52. links that show this fury? nt

[temmer]

55. here - some instant reactions

it's in German, however.

These people have expressed their outrage - others will certainly follow:

Martin Schulz - president of EU parliament
Jean Asselborn - minister of foreignn affairs, Luxembourg
and four members of the EU parliament

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/reaktionen-auf-abhoerprogramm-der-nsa-gegen-eu-vertretungen-a-908570.html

Believe me - this is the biggest international embarassement for Obama so far. I'm looking forward to the first official statement.

[Octafish]

61. It all depends on what your definition of' target' is.

Obviously, here it's used as a friendly term. If it wasn't, the word would be replaced with the phrase: "All right, pop a drone on his ass."

[Kolesar]

63. EU is an economic unit of over 300 million people--what part did we spy on?

That article's use of the term "EU" is quite vague. The way it is written, it does not say be bugged the prime ministers of every country in the EU.

[reorg]

66. No, the use of EU is very specific, they are talking about

bugging conference rooms and hacking the computer network in the EU representation in Washington DC:



also about the European Union Delegation in New York:

http://www.eu-un.europa.eu/articles/en/article_458_en.htm

[rg123]

64. Does Not Add Up

Who is the weekly's journalist. Snowden gave documents to only the Guardian and the Washington Post not Der Spiegel.
Snowden is in Russia not Germeny and has not been seen to date by any journalist there at all not one. Where is the document like the one's supplied by the guardian to the public establishing proof of possession of said documents. This article states that the NSA said Snowden took the document how do we know the NSA is being truthful we don't.

[reorg]

65. You didn't read it

obviously.

Der Spiegel articles are mostly written by more than one journalist. In this case, as indicated below the headline:

Von Laura Poitras, Marcel Rosenbach, Fidelius Schmid und Holger Stark.
http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/nsa-hat-wanzen-in-eu-gebaeuden-installiert-a-908515.html

Laura Poitras was involved in the reporting on the leaks from the start:

Poitras is still in Hong Kong, where she is filming the story behind the story — including her co-author on the Guardian story and former Salon columnist Glenn Greenwald — for her forthcoming documentary on whistle-blowers and leaks. In a wide-ranging interview, she explained how she first made contact with Snowden, her reaction to the possible future investigation into his leaks, and why Snowden didn’t go to the New York Times. What follows is a lightly edited transcript.

So how did this all begin?

I was originally contacted in January, anonymously. (...)

http://www.salon.com/2013/06/10/qa_with_laura_poitras_the_woman_behind_the_nsa_scoops/