Breaking: U.S. tells Russia it would not seek the death penalty if Edward Snowden returns to U.S.

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

Reuters Top News @Reuters

U.S. tells Russia it would not seek the death penalty if Edward Snowden returned to the United States: U.S. Justice Department #breaking

http://www.twitter.com/Reuters

[CincyDem]

1. Instead - the US will seek the "solitary confinement for 100 years" penalty? Much more humane. nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

4. They didn't say anything about torture so

that's still fair game. But no death so its all better.


Russia said fuck you



http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/change-russia-extradite-snowden-us-19780190

[The Straight Story]

2. Yeah, and we told the Indians the truth too

[morningfog]

43. Holder pinky promised!

[MannyGoldstein]

3. We are a nation that tortures, and keeps secret extrajudicial kill lists

I'd imagine that by international convention countries should not extradite to us.

[Safetykitten]

7. +1

[Ichingcarpenter]

12. Dutch Court Won’t Extradite Terror Suspect to US Over Torture Concerns

Dutch Court Won’t Extradite Terror Suspect to US Over Torture Concerns
July 23, 2013

A Dutch court has blocked the extradition of a terrorism suspect to the United States amid concern about American collusion in his torture.

The 26-year-old man, known only as Sabir K, is accused of taking part in attacks on US forces in Afghanistan.

He says he was tortured in Pakistan after his arrest there in 2010, and that the Americans knew about it.

The judge denied the extradition request, saying the degree of US involvement was "unclear".

[MannyGoldstein]

15. Lovely

But thanks.

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

18. Obama ended torture, but nice try.

Rated as: PROMISE KEPT by Politifact.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/175/end-the-use-of-torture/

[MannyGoldstein]

20. Manning was tortured, according to the UN.

And as noted on this thread, the Netherlands has a suspicion that we still at least countenance torture.

[Ichingcarpenter]

24. Not in US prisons ..just with the military.

Evidence of U.S. Human Rights Violations

Torture and abuse of prisoners in the United States stand in contrast to international treaties, conventions, and declarations that provide basic guidelines for the treatment of prisoners.

Human rights law must be upheld by the U.S. police, court, and prison justice systems. One way to foster this change is for prisoners, their families and loved ones, and prisoner rights advocates to weave the language of international standards and treaties into their arguments for humane prison conditions and treatment of prisoners.

This report presents prisoners’ testimonies of torture and abuse alongside related international human rights agreements.


https://afsc.org/sites/afsc.civicactions.net/files/documents/torture_in_us_prisons.pdf

[leveymg]

29. AINIS, you need to clean and restock your sources: that one is a bit moldy.

[David__77]

31. You believe that the US no longer tortures?

Really?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

38. Ended torture? Ended the practice of forced feeding of prisoners at Guantanamo? Good to know.

[morningfog]

40. Except when we torture. See Gitmo forced feedings.

[JackRiddler]

46. Oh my god, some website said it was so...

And this website put "fact" in its name!

Therefore Manning was not tortured!

Everything's great at Gitmo, where force feeding is not torture!

Decades of solitary confinement for many prisoners - not torture!

Etc.

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

48. Politifact has an extraordinary track record unmatched by any other fact-checkers.

Sorry that you feel entitled to your own facts, but you are not.

"some website said it was so"

None of you even want to go there, as that's the basis of most of your outrage.

[JackRiddler]

49. A completely irrelevant answer. What's the fact?

The track record of some pretend neutral facts site has absolutely nothing to say about any given statement. None whatsoever.

Each statement is true or false (or something in between) on its own. Resort to an authority doesn't change that.

"Obama ended torture" is a false statement, as demonstrated by the counter-examples immediately posted in response to your making this false claim.

Long as you think platitudes substitute for thinking, here's a useful one: Anyone who uses the ROFL smiley loses.

[leveymg]

57. Politifact apparently ignores the practices of proxy torture and torture after rendition, both of

which have continued under the Obama Administration. For instance, Matt Hentoff Hentoff cites reports that torture results in Afghanistan from "proxy' interrogations of Taliban suspects, including children, turned over to the Afghan gov't.: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/hentoff050813.php3#.UfMbYtg1n24

"Even more troubling," reports the Constitution Project, "is the evidence that Afghan detainees have been tortured after U.S. forces turned them over to the Afghan National Directorate of Security (NDS)."

The Constitution Project cites a 2011 report from the U.N. Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA). According to the report:

"Torture was especially pervasive in Department 124, the NDS's facility for 'high-value detainees' in Kabul. Of 28 former detainees at Department 124, 26 told UNAMA they had been tortured by methods such as 'beating, suspension, and twisting and wrenching of genitals.' Seventeen of those 26 had been captured by coalition forces. Five of the 26 were children."

Hear that, President Obama? And dig this, sir: "According to The Washington Post, Department 124 is across the street from the United States' military headquarters in Kabul and was built with U.S. funds."

Torture sites paid for by your and my taxes.

Finally, in July 2011, the U.S. did ban prisoner transfers to the NDS in Kandahar. But, according to the Constitution Project, "there was evidence that the military's restrictions on transfers were not being applied to transfers by the CIA," which has a privileged place in Obama's soul.

Here's what one person transferred by the CIA told the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission, as related by the Constitution Project: "I was severely beaten by cable in the head and neck. I was shackled and they connected the shackles to an electrical current and shocked me until I was unconscious. They also beat me on the back and waist very hard ... Even my tongue is severely damaged from the electric shock."

This may help you understand why the "liberating" United States is so detested in Afghanistan.

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

5. If he doesn't take this deal, they should put it back on the table.

[think]

9. What kind of sweetheart deal can we get for the Carlyle Group?

Oh wait. They paid their $20 million dollar fine for their bribes totaling over $13 to access $730 million in New York pension funds.

My bad! That' not a reason to be concerned that these people are being paid billions to run our spy program.....

OK. back to the party! Death to Snowden!!!!!!

[morningfog]

41. You support the execution of Snowden. Noted.

[think]

6. Is that straight from the Carlyle Group? Or just some other govt. source?

[Cleita]

8. Because life in prison is so appealing?

Fail.

[treestar]

11. So it makes no difference?

Then you aren't against the death penalty, since life in prison is not acceptable either?

[Cleita]

21. I'm not for the death penalty or even prison except in extreme cases

where leaving a perp free would endanger innocent people. Otherwise an enlightened society would punish criminals in other ways but allow them to work and live outside of prison so they can support themselves and their children. In some countries in South America thieves are made to go into the army for a period of tim. Their salaries are confiscated and given to their victims.

[treestar]

22. You'd be OK with sending them to the army?

Suppose in the US the punishment for theft was a stint in the army. You wouldn't have a problem with that?

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

26. We should sentence murderers and rapists to play musical chairs in a prison like the one in Norway.

If they make enough macaroni art and talk about their feelings, they might just stop raping and butchering little girls.

[Cleita]

33. What a BS false equivalency.

Maybe the Norwegian model is not for us, but neither is the Turkish prison model which is what our nation is devolving into under privatization.

[Cleita]

27. I never said that. I said there are other ways to punish a

non-violent person. For one thing there should be a caveat to compensate the victim. Next one would be to make them have to put their free time into some kind of unpleasant community service like mining landfills, processing sewage or other things like that.

[treestar]

39. That actually doesn't sound like a bad idea to me

At least for minor offenders. Going back to school if applicable, too. Or any community service, to make people feel like they are part of society. In my opinion the reason for crime is not feeling like being a member of society and thus wanting to damage it. But with a good social safety net, too.

[Cleita]

44. Thanks. I find our present day system of incarceration

in the majority of cases barbaric. Sure we don't want the likes of Charles Manson out free, but for the majority of offenders, imprisoning them is counter productive.

[treestar]

10. Russia has the death penalty

And nothing Snowden was charged with carries it.

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

14. Is that what your Carlyle Group handlers told you to say?

[treestar]

17. Weren't you there are training this morning?

[Scurrilous]

54. LOL

[Enrique]

30. espionage carries the death penalty n/t

[treestar]

55. He's charged with three statutes and none of them have the death penalty.

Each has a 10 year maximum.

[markiv]

13. Snowden is a unique hearts and minds issue for Putin

for both the USA and Russia

he returns Snowden, he's the evil KGB agant, conspiring with the worst image of the CIA

[Purveyor]

16. Don't believe a damned word of it Vlad... eom

[Le Taz Hot]

19. But they will use

"enhanced interrogation" methods right before he is ushered into a Kangaroo Court.

(Note: Edited a THIRD time because I apparently can't type today.)

[Cleita]

23. Yep, it's a good possibility considering how they have reacted in the past.

I don't think things will suddenly change.

[Puzzledtraveller]

32. The fact this is even offered indicates their intentions

If Manning is to be an example I can't imagine what they have in store for Snowden.

[bemildred]

25. The trouble with that is our word is not worth a bucket of warm spit at this point. nt

[Puzzledtraveller]

28. So reassuring.

Wow.

[RedCappedBandit]

34. Regardless of one's personal thoughts on the matter,

why in the hell would anyone trust a word the U.S. says?

[Ichingcarpenter]

35. Haliburton just got a sweetheart deal

I don't see much justice for individuals in this nation. I don't care for Russian, Chinese or American justice.

Anyway Russia said no to the talks and deal so the story is mute just like the OP usual banal rantings.

[ladjf]

36. Such a deal! nt

[Sunlei]

37. life in a federal prison w/ guards daily 'funnin' imo is worse than death

[morningfog]

42. That letter is meaningless with respect to what the final charges and sentence faced would be.

If the US ever gets their hands on Snowden, he will never walk free again with absolute certainty, and will probably be executed.

ETA: The DOJ has not and would not give up their right to use the death penalty as leverage in plea negotiations.

[KamaAina]

45. Of course not.

That would mean putting him on trial. WAY too messy.

He'd just be Baxtered.

[JackRiddler]

50. Please define Baxtered.

The internet is not telling me a definition that would make any sense.

[KamaAina]

51. Baxtered = suicided.

It happened to Cliff Baxter, who knew a little too much about Enron.

[JackRiddler]

52. Right, Baxter...

Thanks for reminding me.

Or Kellyed, as the British might say. No doubt about that one. Connelled. Probably Wellstoned. And how many don't we know?

That's not what they'd do to Snowden if they had him, however. They'd make a big old example out of him, like they're about to do with Manning. First stick him in a hole for a year or three...

[treestar]

56. Like Julian's claims to this

it's just ridiculous. Absurd. He's too well known for "them" to get away with it. And you're watching too many movies if you think things like that happen all the time.

[Whisp]

47. if Snowden releases NSA agents names,

and harm or death results from this, he does deserve the death penalty.

[snappyturtle]

53. Just like what happened to the 'outers' of Valerie Plame. Got it. nt