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elehhhhna

(32,076 posts)
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 08:20 AM Jul 2013

TX to replace asphalt roads with GRAVEL.

Welcome to Texas, where Republican leadership hasn’t lowered our electric bill, our insurance rates, our college tuition, or our taxes, but they have done one helluva job lowering our standard of living.


Citing a funding shortfall and ****** impact of a historic oil drilling boom ******, Texas Department of Transportation officials on Thursday announced plans to move forward with converting some roads in West and South Texas to gravel.

Approximately 83 miles of asphalt roads will be torn up and converted to “unpaved” roads, TxDOT Deputy Executive Director John Barton said. The speed limits on those roads will probably be reduced to 30 mph.

I guess going back to cobblestone is out of the question so once we can’t afford gravel, we got dirt. Dirt is still pretty damn cheap in Texas and if it was good enough for Davy Crockett, it’s good enough for south Texas.


http://juanitajean.com/

SO all this oil production doesn't add any $ to the state coffers, thus the roads go to hell WTF????

135 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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TX to replace asphalt roads with GRAVEL. (Original Post) elehhhhna Jul 2013 OP
TX to replace asphalt roads with GRAVEL. Hayduke Bomgarte Jul 2013 #1
Have they closed all the rest stops on the interstates? Lasher Jul 2013 #2
I went through a year ago - they were all open FreakinDJ Jul 2013 #6
Yes, they couldn't impose this on Iraq caseymoz Jul 2013 #37
They weren't all open, more closed now, and they all get more overgrown than they used to. Dustlawyer Jul 2013 #117
Rest Stops in Texas are where the shrubs get thick.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #113
all the gas tax money that used to be earmarked for roads now goes into the general revenue hobbit709 Jul 2013 #3
and the only new roads we're building are toll roads elehhhhna Jul 2013 #17
Most of them surrounding Moscow-on-the-Colorado... Eleanors38 Jul 2013 #53
And nobody here takes them. hobbit709 Jul 2013 #59
I have yet to take one. Eleanors38 Jul 2013 #60
"...-on-the-Colorado..."? truebluegreen Jul 2013 #69
Learn your Texas geography, son. There is indeed a Colorado River flowing through Austin. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2013 #78
Sorry, but there can be only One. truebluegreen Jul 2013 #79
There are TWO Colorado Rivers in the US. One, the one you probably know, runs WEST..... northoftheborder Jul 2013 #80
Thanks. I was shocked but I looked it up and you and previous poster are right. truebluegreen Jul 2013 #82
There's more than one Colorado. The "Texas Colorado" Eleanors38 Jul 2013 #125
Yep. Got it. truebluegreen Jul 2013 #126
and most toll roads are outsourced, Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Jul 2013 #92
The state's responsibilities are roads and schools HubertHeaver Jul 2013 #107
Well, TX was **founded** as a 19th century Third World country ... ;^) eppur_se_muova Jul 2013 #110
back in the late 40s and early 50s my uncle, a TX state senator and a Democrat, wrote legislation CTyankee Jul 2013 #124
Maybe you have to be an old, life-long Texan like me...... Paladin Jul 2013 #128
you have to wonder what Goodhair is thinking. This is taking "the least government is the best CTyankee Jul 2013 #133
Agreed. Even by Rick Perry's low standards, this is is a standout stupid move. (nt) Paladin Jul 2013 #134
Plans to move backward . . . to the Great Depression. leveymg Jul 2013 #4
Molly Ivins used to call Texas, Mississippi with good roads dsc Jul 2013 #5
Damn, I miss her. reusrename Jul 2013 #8
Nope, that would be Indiana. Brigid Jul 2013 #93
The highways are great (Federal funds, ya know) but the local roads are terrible. eppur_se_muova Jul 2013 #111
Welcome to Texass... 99Forever Jul 2013 #7
Soon the infrastructure will reduce them to covered wagons and burros. onehandle Jul 2013 #9
You said burro, and I thought of Rick Perry. Kennah Jul 2013 #64
And Guv. Hee Haw thinks asphalt is a butt disease. BornLooser Jul 2013 #118
The American Taliban hard at work going back to biblical times,. . Civilization2 Jul 2013 #10
They used the asphalt to fill their empty heads. There is none left. appleannie1 Jul 2013 #11
Texans love their roads... this is a very bad sign for Repbublicans JCMach1 Jul 2013 #12
This just in . . TX to replace Governor with hot air balloon. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #13
Our thread winner. Brigid Jul 2013 #22
Heh!!! northoftheborder Jul 2013 #84
I have the solution for that davidpdx Jul 2013 #101
Ah hell, it's Texas Ravens.Ransom Jul 2013 #104
I think a large bamboo tube and a dart would do davidpdx Jul 2013 #105
Freedumb frum EEVUL TAXIS!!!! hatrack Jul 2013 #14
lol ctsnowman Jul 2013 #16
Betcha the roads going to and from the oil facilities... Wounded Bear Jul 2013 #15
No, these ARE the roads to the oil fields. mbperrin Jul 2013 #43
Not To Dispute Any Comments On This Thread... But Gravel Roads Can Be OK Tace Jul 2013 #18
Asphalt means a depletion of petroleum resources Kolesar Jul 2013 #33
Asphalt comes from a separate part of the oil barrel than fuel. Heywood J Jul 2013 #135
The roads are torn up because drilling rigs weighing 80,000 pounds are being mbperrin Jul 2013 #41
I lived on a gravel road in Missouri and I hated Ed Suspicious Jul 2013 #48
I have to admit pipi_k Jul 2013 #131
Same here... pipi_k Jul 2013 #130
What about the drop in sorefeet Jul 2013 #19
No dust mockmonkey Jul 2013 #25
In the 50s, when I was a kid, the county DID spray dirt roads with waste oil. mbperrin Jul 2013 #44
At least mockmonkey Jul 2013 #51
I think the quote goes like this: proReality Jul 2013 #52
that which does not kill you is a-okay per US regulations elehhhhna Jul 2013 #58
Don't mention mutations... nebenaube Jul 2013 #102
That which does not kill you cannot be proven in a Texas court Kennah Jul 2013 #68
They'll spray the roads with frack fluid don't mind the arsenic! Champion Jack Jul 2013 #127
Given the perpetual road construction that goes on all over Texas (at least the major cities) penultimate Jul 2013 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author penultimate Jul 2013 #62
And during the Dark Ages . . . Brigid Jul 2013 #21
No one lives out in these areas - well, sparsely populated sammytko Jul 2013 #23
Yeah, all the truck traffic is killing those roads WolverineDG Jul 2013 #28
It's about 40,000 people, combined, for all Ilsa Jul 2013 #36
I grew up in Live Oak County. TexasTowelie Jul 2013 #86
I live in a small town one county up from these areas, all our roads are sammytko Jul 2013 #99
The windshield repair shops are thrilled. WilliamPitt Jul 2013 #24
Interesting. I don't think it's a big deal though. Avalux Jul 2013 #26
"The speed limits on those roads will probably be reduced to 30 mph." calimary Jul 2013 #27
Gravel roads don't keep yay-hoos from speeding. svpadgham Jul 2013 #30
Best way to drive gravel roads is to go fast enough truebluegreen Jul 2013 #70
I think there may be a bit of over reacting to this story. svpadgham Jul 2013 #29
My understanding was that TxDOT was trying Ilsa Jul 2013 #31
Perhaps. Igel Jul 2013 #71
I have never known Republicans to fix roads. Jamastiene Jul 2013 #32
This is Texas. Igel Jul 2013 #72
Pushing the cost to the car driver. Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #34
Are you in Alaska? nt raccoon Jul 2013 #66
I am. Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #77
They're doing it for the oil. CanSocDem Jul 2013 #35
The real savings is recharging the old asphalt to repave/repair major existing roads Brother Buzz Jul 2013 #45
These 4 counties have natural gas, not oil, Ilsa Jul 2013 #46
I think there are Some misconceptions here = as I know a bit about asphalt paving... Mopar151 Jul 2013 #115
Can they please supply these to mapquest!!!! Historic NY Jul 2013 #38
Yes, indeed. Moving forward with the republicans means moving backward is their new way. southernyankeebelle Jul 2013 #39
The republican con job rolls on.... blackspade Jul 2013 #40
They're actually going to tear up the asphalt roads? sufrommich Jul 2013 #42
Exactly what I was thinking. Sounds really stupid. nt SunSeeker Jul 2013 #49
The roads are trashed already. Igel Jul 2013 #75
The symbolism of this is totally lost on them I guess. reformist2 Jul 2013 #47
Shit, they've been doing that in West Virginia since Reagan 1-Old-Man Jul 2013 #50
In other news, residents of south Texas finally Ilsa Jul 2013 #54
In other words, we don't care about the peopel of west and southern Texas ShadowLiberal Jul 2013 #55
The sick part in all of this is... Lobo27 Jul 2013 #56
k&r for the truth, however depressing it may be. n/t Laelth Jul 2013 #57
Damn, the roads were good out there for the most part, especially Farm-to-Market roads. freshwest Jul 2013 #61
Out of all the states I've been in, I found Texas roads to be some of the better ones... penultimate Jul 2013 #63
My memory of Texas highways goes way back. Truly, Texas used to have wonderful roads, even before northoftheborder Jul 2013 #81
So an oil drilling BOOM causes a funding shortfall? Kennah Jul 2013 #65
Does Texas really even need roads? Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #67
Now, that is what I call progress... kentuck Jul 2013 #73
Jesus. I'm so glad I no longer live in that fucked-up state... Aristus Jul 2013 #74
we have good democrats here... MrsBrady Jul 2013 #88
I know. And I feel bad for them. Aristus Jul 2013 #94
A link with a few more facts. Igel Jul 2013 #76
I hate the term "oil production" gulliver Jul 2013 #83
And in these four counties, Ilsa Jul 2013 #91
There is a refinery in Three Rivers, in live oak county sammytko Jul 2013 #121
Yes, it's been there for over three decades. Ilsa Jul 2013 #122
We used to pass through there on our way to Texas A&I university sammytko Jul 2013 #123
Can't have paved roads paid for by evvvvvil taxes! Thats socialism friend! workinclasszero Jul 2013 #85
Change that to dirt jmowreader Jul 2013 #87
Building the New Third World ... GeorgeGist Jul 2013 #89
There goes insurance rates due to raptor_rider Jul 2013 #90
Not only can't you fix stupid, it's contagious. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #95
They say the road to Hell ThoughtCriminal Jul 2013 #96
that's just 20 miles south of me NMDemDist2 Jul 2013 #97
Really short sighted of them. Unpaved road take more maintenance than paved roads. 1monster Jul 2013 #98
Doesn't that qualify as "messing with Texas"? stevenleser Jul 2013 #100
Where is the gravel coming from? Metro135 Jul 2013 #103
"This New Road Brought To You Courtesy of Your State Republicans. To phone in your appreciation, jtuck004 Jul 2013 #106
going backwards Liberal_in_LA Jul 2013 #108
It's happening in a lot of states, actually. NickB79 Jul 2013 #109
This is obscene! There must be more to this. tofuandbeer Jul 2013 #112
" where Republican leadership hasn’t lowered our electric bill, our college tuition" Snake Plissken Jul 2013 #114
Seriously Thought It Was The Onion erpowers Jul 2013 #116
Who owns the gravel company? yellerpup Jul 2013 #119
More dust to breathe Conium Jul 2013 #120
That will be a boon for the vehicle repair shops. The added maintenance costs will far exceed ladjf Jul 2013 #129
Isn't hispanic the largest population in South Texas? Bethany Rockafella Jul 2013 #132

Hayduke Bomgarte

(1,965 posts)
1. TX to replace asphalt roads with GRAVEL.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 08:23 AM
Jul 2013

It'll create lots of jobs.

In the windshield and paint chip repair industries.

 

FreakinDJ

(17,644 posts)
6. I went through a year ago - they were all open
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 09:01 AM
Jul 2013

Texas doesn't have State Income Taxes and they have declared some of the most built up areas "Free Enterprise Zones" free of all State and Federal Taxes.

So Basically its a Republican's Deregulation Wet-Dream there

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
37. Yes, they couldn't impose this on Iraq
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:57 AM
Jul 2013

So, now Texas gets to be the laboratory of capitalism.

It's not satisfactory, but there's a smidgeon more justice to that.

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
117. They weren't all open, more closed now, and they all get more overgrown than they used to.
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 07:42 AM
Jul 2013

These people, in just being mean spirited, and spiking the ball, shit on us in every way they can!

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
113. Rest Stops in Texas are where the shrubs get thick....
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 02:38 AM
Jul 2013

I believe they've evolved to thrive on urine.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
3. all the gas tax money that used to be earmarked for roads now goes into the general revenue
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 08:36 AM
Jul 2013

Anything to not raise taxes. TX is rapidly regressing to a 19th century Third World country.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
69. "...-on-the-Colorado..."?
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 02:21 PM
Jul 2013

The Colorado River has far too much self-respect to get anywhere near Texas...although if it didn't, Austin would top the list of Places To Go.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
78. Learn your Texas geography, son. There is indeed a Colorado River flowing through Austin.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 02:58 PM
Jul 2013

Just not the Colorado River you're thinking of.

northoftheborder

(7,572 posts)
80. There are TWO Colorado Rivers in the US. One, the one you probably know, runs WEST.....
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 03:07 PM
Jul 2013

out of the Western side of the Continental Divide. The other one, begins in N. Mexico running south and east to the Gulf of Mexico. This one runs right through Austin, and is surrounded on both sides with beautiful landscaped grounds and a fantastic hiking trail. Visit some day...You'll love it.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
82. Thanks. I was shocked but I looked it up and you and previous poster are right.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 03:20 PM
Jul 2013

Although, according to Wiki, the other Colorado is entirely contained within Texas except for occasional input from normally-dry streams in NM.

I'll have to visit next time we go through Texas, although it will be hard to consider it more than a shadow of its mightier-although-much-dammed-and-abused cousin.

Thanks again.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
125. There's more than one Colorado. The "Texas Colorado"
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 10:19 AM
Jul 2013

originates near the Tex/NM border and flows SE through a chain of "highland lakes" (created by FDR-era dam & hydro projects), through Austin (Mosow to the foaming Right), ending in the Gulf of Mexico.

HubertHeaver

(2,522 posts)
107. The state's responsibilities are roads and schools
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 12:50 AM
Jul 2013

They are not funding the schools, the old roads are deteriorating and the new roads are self-funding (toll). So, where is the money going?

eppur_se_muova

(36,259 posts)
110. Well, TX was **founded** as a 19th century Third World country ... ;^)
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 01:36 AM
Jul 2013

and has a state Constitution that is more anti-government than any other.

CTyankee

(63,903 posts)
124. back in the late 40s and early 50s my uncle, a TX state senator and a Democrat, wrote legislation
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:54 AM
Jul 2013

to pave highways and roads throughout the state. It was his signature achievement, altho he had been a judge as well. He was lauded for having vision for the state. As a kid in Dallas we traveled to OK to visit friends and always made fun of the Okies, because at the state line, OK roads were gravel and dirt and we had paved roads to travel on.

This is a sad day for my beloved Uncle Tim...

Paladin

(28,252 posts)
128. Maybe you have to be an old, life-long Texan like me......
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 10:31 AM
Jul 2013

....to appreciate what a huge step backward this is.

Years ago, Texas highways and roads were first-class, and beyond that, they were sacrosanct. Highway funding and administration were enormously important---you didn't need a state boundary sign to know you'd just driven into Louisiana or New Mexico, the change in road quality was an immediate tip-off. And yes, political influence played a constant role: there were road projects in lightly-traveled West Texas that rivaled the Pyramids in terms of enormity, expense, and architectural achievement, while Highway 290 from Houston to Austin remained a stacked-up, two-lane death trap for decades beyond when it should have been expanded.

Taking improved roads from paved to gravel status in Texas? Governor Goodhair, your shortcomings are more evident every day......

CTyankee

(63,903 posts)
133. you have to wonder what Goodhair is thinking. This is taking "the least government is the best
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 01:40 PM
Jul 2013

government" argument to extremes. Truly a March of Folly. If you read Barbara Tuchman's book of the same title you can well fit her examples, which include the Trojan War and the Renaissance Popes abetting by their folly the Protestant Reformation, and American involvement in Vietnam, to today's folly of the Republican Party. In all these cases there was clear knowledge ahead of time of nearing disaster, there were remedies at hand that could be used and, in her words “ . . . the policy in question should be that of a group, not an individual ruler, and should persist beyond ‘any one political lifetime."

This is depressing. And stupid. Really boneheaded stupid.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
4. Plans to move backward . . . to the Great Depression.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 08:43 AM
Jul 2013

It used to be taken as a sign of progress and good government in most States that gravel roads got paved, even in rural areas. Politicians used to boast about it with pride.

dsc

(52,155 posts)
5. Molly Ivins used to call Texas, Mississippi with good roads
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 08:51 AM
Jul 2013

now she would have to just call it Mississippi

eppur_se_muova

(36,259 posts)
111. The highways are great (Federal funds, ya know) but the local roads are terrible.
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 01:41 AM
Jul 2013

I lived a couple of years in San Antonio and got a lot of practice guessing at where the traffic lanes were. The painted markings were so worn and faded they were invisible in the rain, and nearly so after dark.

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
9. Soon the infrastructure will reduce them to covered wagons and burros.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 09:08 AM
Jul 2013

Let them secede and accelerate the process.

appleannie1

(5,067 posts)
11. They used the asphalt to fill their empty heads. There is none left.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 09:14 AM
Jul 2013

But the dears are looking out for your safety.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
13. This just in . . TX to replace Governor with hot air balloon.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 09:29 AM
Jul 2013

Called "The Perry", the balloon will soon be seen in the skies over the great state of Texas, floating along the southernly air routes over football stadiums located in Dallas and Houston.

Although the balloon will not require a pilot, ex-Governor Rick Perry announced that he is air-headed enough to make sure the balloon will be seen over the entire state.
As he has proudly volunteered to man the helm of the robotically-controlled balloon, meaning that once again, Perry won't be doing a damn thing for a living, and nothing for Texas!!!!

YEE-HAW!!!

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
105. I think a large bamboo tube and a dart would do
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 12:07 AM
Jul 2013

His head is a big enough target you'd have to be a really bad aim to miss.

mbperrin

(7,672 posts)
43. No, these ARE the roads to the oil fields.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 11:09 AM
Jul 2013

The originals are destroyed by rig moves weighing 80,000 pounds and up, while the road was rated at 40,000.

There's a $200 fine for doing so, completely laughable, and completely insufficient for actually repairing anything. Won't even cover the cost of the gravel, I bet.

Tace

(6,800 posts)
18. Not To Dispute Any Comments On This Thread... But Gravel Roads Can Be OK
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 09:44 AM
Jul 2013

I live in Vermont, about three-and-a-half miles from the nearest paved road. Gravel roads are OK here. --Tace

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
33. Asphalt means a depletion of petroleum resources
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:47 AM
Jul 2013

Graded and gravel roads have to be cheaper to maintain in the long run. If heavy trucks beat them up, just dump some more rock and regrade it.

mbperrin

(7,672 posts)
41. The roads are torn up because drilling rigs weighing 80,000 pounds are being
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 11:06 AM
Jul 2013

hauled along roads rated for 40,000 pounds. They will continue to haul these huge rigs on gravel.

I believe it won't be long before they're hauling them in a ditch.

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
48. I lived on a gravel road in Missouri and I hated
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 11:17 AM
Jul 2013

it! Dust dirt chipped paint. And the dust wasn't confined to the car, my house was a dusty dustbowl of a mess.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
131. I have to admit
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 01:27 PM
Jul 2013

that dust season around here is a pain in the neck.

Heavy rain as well, although even if they did pave my road, it would still wash out beneath the asphalt, like part of another road leading into town.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
130. Same here...
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 01:24 PM
Jul 2013

In rural Western Mass.

I live about the same distance from a paved road. My road is a combination of dirt and gravel. Sometimes it's actually in better shape than the asphalt road is.

I like that people can't go speeding up and down my road, although some people do it anyway. One day they'll end up 15 or 20 feet down over the side of the road in a creek at the bottom.

Anyway, the only problem we ever had with a cracked windshield was because of a small rock out on the main (paved) road. The only dings and scratches on the body came from parking lots in the city. People opening their own doors. Stray shopping carts rolling into the sides.

I'm even expecting to someday see long scratches along the side put there by some disgruntled idiot who thinks it's OK to vandalize someone's SUV under the assumption that we are city dwellers, not people who live 20+ miles away on a dirt/gravel road at 1300 feet elevation.

sorefeet

(1,241 posts)
19. What about the drop in
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 09:51 AM
Jul 2013

property value?? A house or business on a black top road is more valuable than one on dusty gravel.

mockmonkey

(2,815 posts)
25. No dust
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:20 AM
Jul 2013

They'll spray the road with waste oil laced with Dioxin, they found some left over from Times Beach at a bargain price.

mbperrin

(7,672 posts)
44. In the 50s, when I was a kid, the county DID spray dirt roads with waste oil.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 11:12 AM
Jul 2013

Then the DDT jeep followed, spraying for mosquitoes.

Being downwind from White Sands, we caught that fallout.

And now, the country's newest nuclear waste dump has been built on top of our water aquifer.


"That which does not kill you" or sumthin'.

 

nebenaube

(3,496 posts)
102. Don't mention mutations...
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 11:24 PM
Jul 2013

As I now live in southern California and I've notice this year that the palm seeds are not all the same size. And half the nectarines I just picked are co-joined twins.

Champion Jack

(5,378 posts)
127. They'll spray the roads with frack fluid don't mind the arsenic!
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 10:30 AM
Jul 2013

Prosperity from natural gas! Ain't it wonderful?

penultimate

(1,110 posts)
20. Given the perpetual road construction that goes on all over Texas (at least the major cities)
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 09:54 AM
Jul 2013

it's difficult to fathom there is a shortage of funds...

Response to penultimate (Reply #20)

Brigid

(17,621 posts)
21. And during the Dark Ages . . .
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:03 AM
Jul 2013

People went from using aqueducts to digging wells for water, and they quarried the Coliseum for quick building materials. Yep, we're regressing.

sammytko

(2,480 posts)
23. No one lives out in these areas - well, sparsely populated
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:11 AM
Jul 2013

"The impacted roads are in four South Texas counties — Live Oak, Dimmit, LaSalle and Zavala — and two West Texas counties — Reeves and Culberson"

It is mainly used by the oil and gas companies. The regular roads get torn up by all the traffic and it would mean constant repair. The article I read says that it also means the speed limits would be lowered to 30.

My state rep sent out a message that TxDOT is sending out more repair crews to the towns impacted by the traffic.

Could be funds slated for rural road repair will be spent on small city and town road repair?

WolverineDG

(22,298 posts)
28. Yeah, all the truck traffic is killing those roads
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:32 AM
Jul 2013

There are more cows than people in those counties. Gravel makes sense.

Ilsa

(61,694 posts)
36. It's about 40,000 people, combined, for all
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:48 AM
Jul 2013

four counties. It's only 83 miles of road, but I'm sure a road of a couple of miles services numerous country homes. This is a big deal for the homes affected. Getting upgraded from gravel to asphalt was a big deal for them before, and now losing this is a big deal. The locals need to push the counties they live in to pave them.

TexasTowelie

(112,119 posts)
86. I grew up in Live Oak County.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 03:30 PM
Jul 2013

One of the roads being converted back to gravel is the frontage road to Interstate 37 so it isn't limited to sparsely used roads.

In addition, there are several state highways through south Texas that no longer have paved shoulders due to the traffic caused by the oil boom.

Don't expect the state of Texas to spend any money on repairing roads in the small cities or towns either. Remember that Texas is famous for unfunded mandates in education--why should they be generous with transportation infrastructure since roads are the ideas of socialists?

sammytko

(2,480 posts)
99. I live in a small town one county up from these areas, all our roads are
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:54 PM
Jul 2013

Being repaired in some way.

They finished a major project on hiway 16 that leads to some of the gas fields and are almost done widening a farm to market road that feeds into it.

I live in town, but the road in front of my house is maintained by the state. They are always doing something around here.

We just had a new high school built, new pre-k, new middle school construction started this summer. New stadium, track, baseball fields. And we are the poor town in the county.

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
26. Interesting. I don't think it's a big deal though.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:23 AM
Jul 2013

83 miles of road in remote areas (areas of west and south Texas are desolate), is barely anything. I'd like to see exactly where this is going to be done, but otherwise, not a big deal.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
27. "The speed limits on those roads will probably be reduced to 30 mph."
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:29 AM
Jul 2013

Just watch some teabaggers and libertarians start whining and yowling about that somehow crimps their "freedom" to speed.

Oh their "freedom-freedoms."

svpadgham

(670 posts)
30. Gravel roads don't keep yay-hoos from speeding.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:36 AM
Jul 2013

In fact, it's sort of fun in a pants-shitting kind of way.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
70. Best way to drive gravel roads is to go fast enough
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 02:26 PM
Jul 2013

that you only hit the top of the bumps...much smoother that way.

But you do have to hope there are no curves or reasons to stop suddenly Up Ahead.

Signed: a Yay-hoo

svpadgham

(670 posts)
29. I think there may be a bit of over reacting to this story.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:33 AM
Jul 2013

If you look at the map and see the affected counties, you'll notice the areas are sparsely populated. It's not like they're ripping up downtown Austin. In fact, from what I have seen with my own two beady little eyes most road funding is going to where a lot of people are moving to, rather than places with stagnant or dying populations.

Ilsa

(61,694 posts)
31. My understanding was that TxDOT was trying
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:42 AM
Jul 2013

to push repairs back down to the county level.
Senate Bill 1747 would establish a Transportation Infrastructure Fund and permit counties in high-impact oil and gas producing regions to create County Transportation Reinvestment Zones. These zones would allow counties to use increased revenues from county property and sales taxes to repair and maintain roads that have been damaged by oil production activity.

http://www.rigzone.com/news/oil_gas/a/126717/Texas_Legislature_OKs_Bill_for_OilImpacted_County_Road_Repairs


Igel

(35,300 posts)
71. Perhaps.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 02:30 PM
Jul 2013

But the timing is wrong.

The legislature is in special session II and their big issue is transportation infrastructure funding.

Thursday they were talking about it. Friday they had working groups and met to talk about it.

Monday they have to vote on it.

Coincidentally, the amount that the legislature's arguing over is in the ballpark of what DOT says it needs.

This is an attempt to push the ultraconservatives who are against spending the money and the (D) who want either more or different spending, to just say "yes." Even if the result is a referendum, and even if it is in 2014.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
32. I have never known Republicans to fix roads.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:45 AM
Jul 2013

Our roads here in NC go to hell when the Republicans get the majorities. State roads get so bad that chunks are literally coming out of the actual road. When we get Democrats in office, state roads get repaved.

Igel

(35,300 posts)
72. This is Texas.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 02:32 PM
Jul 2013

They run things, so they don't much have a choice.

The current special session has, as one priority, securing additional transportation infrastructure spending. Perry said if the legislature fails to do so, he'll call a 3rd special session.

The vote is Monday. Thursday and Friday the legislature was meeting to iron out compromises. And just by coincidence, TXDOT issues this bit of embarrassing news.

(However, it's not that much of a problem.)

 

Arctic Dave

(13,812 posts)
34. Pushing the cost to the car driver.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:47 AM
Jul 2013

Where I work we have nothing but gravel roads. They need constant maintenance with heavy equipment to keep from falling apart. We also have to replace our work vehicles every 4-5 years due to them being ruined from the constant beating they get from driving on the roads.

Windshields need replace annually.
Tires need replaced annual.
Brakes every couple of years.
Any rubber product every couple of years.
Wheel wells are completely sandblasted of paint in a few years and all fasteners need to be cut off because the threads are destroyed.

 

CanSocDem

(3,286 posts)
35. They're doing it for the oil.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:48 AM
Jul 2013


There is probably as much oil in 'paved roads' as there is in the tar sands. And since it is all about extraction these days, this source is easy pickings considering there is no hole to dig.

This will catch on because Americans love to drive and the car-makers have been preparing for this for decades by building off-road, four wheel drive vehicles.


.

Brother Buzz

(36,416 posts)
45. The real savings is recharging the old asphalt to repave/repair major existing roads
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 11:14 AM
Jul 2013

Texas is eating their seed corn

Ilsa

(61,694 posts)
46. These 4 counties have natural gas, not oil,
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 11:15 AM
Jul 2013

Last edited Sat Jul 27, 2013, 11:57 AM - Edit history (1)

being extracted. Oil from fracking is in some other plays in other counties, but it's natural gas they are after in this part of the Eagle Ford Shale play.

On edit: It's mostly gas in Live Oak, but some oil is produced there. There is potential for more oil to be extracted from the entire Eagle Ford shale play.

Mopar151

(9,980 posts)
115. I think there are Some misconceptions here = as I know a bit about asphalt paving...
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 05:40 AM
Jul 2013

This machine is a COLD PLANER

It works much like a drum style floor sander to level out old, broken pavement, particularly that which has been repaved and/or repaired a lot, and may be too thick (makes the old cracks come to the surface). The stuff you see conveyored onto trucks and hauled away is called Recycled Asphalt Paving, and it makes a hard-topping for secondary roads, which packs a little harder than dirt and isn't so dusty. It can also be run back through an asphalt plant, with some new tar and perhaps aggregate mixed in, and then reapplied with a paving machine. There are machines that train together to do this continuously, but the headache factor has gotta be huge.
This is a RECLAIMER

It tills up the broken pavement, thin concrete, head-size rocks, sand, and mud, and can pump water or chemicals (primarily emusifiers) into the fine gravel the former road has become. Grading, drainage repair, and compaction will make a decent, hard-packed gravel road. RAP or gravel can be added in by spreading it before chewing the road up, building up the road and improving te quality of the "gravel paving". Beats chuckholes that'll take a wheel off and miles of washboard. Laying new asphalt over this makes a good, smooth road, that seems to stay together well, and it can be done next week, or a couple years down the road when sanity returns.

Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
38. Can they please supply these to mapquest!!!!
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 11:01 AM
Jul 2013

No one with decent paint or a new car will want to travel gravel roads. I remember the days of the old tar & gravel.

In my town they just used a blacktop slurry which was put on over the top of the old blacktop. Its got heavier stone mixed in but was cheaper than other methods. On the hottest day here 97+, my dinky ass highway dept with some hired on machinery paved my street which is a 1 1/2 miles long 2 lanes. No loose grit no loose stone. In my state they normally send out a pavement reclaimer. It takes up and recycles the old pavement its then rolled out a road bed before repaving. A portion of old blacktop is required in all new mixes.

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
39. Yes, indeed. Moving forward with the republicans means moving backward is their new way.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 11:04 AM
Jul 2013

Ya'll better be paying attention the sneaking little critters do everything behind close doors. Before you know it women and people without property will lose their right to vote. Maybe they will be outlawing divorce. Pay attention people especially republicans who keep voting for these kind of republicans.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
42. They're actually going to tear up the asphalt roads?
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 11:07 AM
Jul 2013

Won't that cost more money than maintaining them?

Igel

(35,300 posts)
75. The roads are trashed already.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 02:35 PM
Jul 2013

The loads that have been hauled over the roads are twice what they've been built for. TXDOT considers them safety hazards as they are.

Oil extraction equipment is heavy. Not many cars on those roads, mostly pickups for oil workers and industry trucks.

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
47. The symbolism of this is totally lost on them I guess.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 11:17 AM
Jul 2013

I never mistook the GOP to be "deep thinkers" but still... how can they not be embarrassed by this?

1-Old-Man

(2,667 posts)
50. Shit, they've been doing that in West Virginia since Reagan
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 11:24 AM
Jul 2013

but the locals blame all of our problems on Obama's war on coal. Jesus, its tough to live inside a zoo.

Ilsa

(61,694 posts)
54. In other news, residents of south Texas finally
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:01 PM
Jul 2013

have enough money to abandon their homes and move their butts to more temperate climes!

Honestly, I think most of that area should be abandoned as unlivable, the people relocated. Only send in the O&G workers and support industries. It's hot, dusty, dry, with rattlesnakes and javelina for traveling companions.

ShadowLiberal

(2,237 posts)
55. In other words, we don't care about the peopel of west and southern Texas
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:06 PM
Jul 2013

Way to make part of your state seem like part of another country Texas.

Lobo27

(753 posts)
56. The sick part in all of this is...
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:15 PM
Jul 2013

That its a plan in their part. Think about it, say Sen. Davis or a Castro brother wins governorship. At some point during their time in office they will use it against them.

"Look Texans the democrats have let your roads gone to shit!"

My only hope for my state is that this mother fucker Abbott doesn't win...

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
61. Damn, the roads were good out there for the most part, especially Farm-to-Market roads.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:58 PM
Jul 2013

No need to tear these roads up. So I guess next they will tear up the power lines. I smell some make work contracts for some of Perry's fascist friends there.


penultimate

(1,110 posts)
63. Out of all the states I've been in, I found Texas roads to be some of the better ones...
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 01:01 PM
Jul 2013

At least in the areas I've been in and around (I've been to and from most of the major cities)

I'm only mentioning this because of all the comments about Texas roads going back to the 1800's 'cause of this. If these roads are rarely traveled, it might actually be a good thing to contract our over expansion. Do we really need to pave the entire world?

northoftheborder

(7,572 posts)
81. My memory of Texas highways goes way back. Truly, Texas used to have wonderful roads, even before
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 03:16 PM
Jul 2013

the interstate system was built. It was so obvious, especially crossing the border into another state, like Arkansas, you would go from a solid safe well maintained road, suddenly into a really shoddy surfaced road, with unsafe shoulders. We did have a lot of gravel roads (the county roads) but gradually have been paved. i can't understand going back to gravel roads, they are really difficult and expensive to maintain, especially with truck traffic. With rains, the gravel eventually migrates to the ditches, and even in dry area, gradually becomes an awful washboard over which you can travel about 20mph without shaking your back bones out of place.

Truly, Texas has become Mississippi, only more arrogant in insisting "we're the biggest and
best."

kentuck

(111,079 posts)
73. Now, that is what I call progress...
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 02:32 PM
Jul 2013

..and an indication or where this present Republican Party will take our country. Wake up people! I'm tired of talking...

Aristus

(66,316 posts)
94. I know. And I feel bad for them.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 09:32 PM
Jul 2013

This is not a knock against good Texas progressives who are trying so hard...



BTW, I'm glad you replaced your Lone Star avatar. I DO stand with Texas women!...

Igel

(35,300 posts)
76. A link with a few more facts.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 02:40 PM
Jul 2013
http://www.texastribune.org/2013/07/25/with-funds-lacking-txdot-converts-road-to-gravel/

And, while you're at it, there's this

http://www.chron.com/news/texas/article/Texas-lawmakers-reach-deal-on-transportation-funds-4688227.php?cmpid=htx

"Instead they have proposed taking an estimated $848 million in oil and gas taxes that would normally flow into the Rainy Day Fund to help pay for transportation. Nichols said the money would only be spent on non-toll roads and bridges and could not be spent to pay off debt."

They want the referendum on this to be in 2014 because of a $2 billion water infrastructure referendum this fall.

gulliver

(13,180 posts)
83. I hate the term "oil production"
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 03:21 PM
Jul 2013

It's "oil extraction." Calling it "production" makes it seem more virtuous and harder to tax.

Ilsa

(61,694 posts)
91. And in these four counties,
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 06:11 PM
Jul 2013

It's almost entirely gas extraction. Live Oak Co has some oil, but a lot of the fracking is for natural gas along the Eagle Ford Shale play.

"Production?" Need a refinery for that, and you are right: it's still not production.

Ilsa

(61,694 posts)
122. Yes, it's been there for over three decades.
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:46 AM
Jul 2013

I have an old friend whose spouse worked there. There are refineries further down-river, too, closer to the Port of Corpus Christi.

I was talking about the drilling in LOC being mostly for natural gas, not oil, and that I agree about the term "production" vs "extraction." And "refining" should be the term, not "producing", just for cleanup and turning crude into higher grade crude or gasoline.

sammytko

(2,480 posts)
123. We used to pass through there on our way to Texas A&I university
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:50 AM
Jul 2013

In Kingsville tx.

Haven't been there in years, but planning on doing a tour of the king ranch in the fall.

When I was a student at A/I, used to be able to drive on the ranch, guess its locked up now.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
85. Can't have paved roads paid for by evvvvvil taxes! Thats socialism friend!
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 03:26 PM
Jul 2013

The destruction of America continues...

Making a rural comeback: The old gravel road

http://www.startribune.com/local/118713504.html

jmowreader

(50,553 posts)
87. Change that to dirt
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 03:39 PM
Jul 2013

Between the trucks forcing the gravel down into the roadbed and them flinging it off, gravel roads used by heavy equipment don't stay graveled long.

1monster

(11,012 posts)
98. Really short sighted of them. Unpaved road take more maintenance than paved roads.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:43 PM
Jul 2013

After twenty years of reneging on their promises to pave the roads in our development, the county agreed to pave our roads if we, the land owners on each road paid for it, over an above our regular property taxes. They got very few takers.

Then one day, the county got an offer from a cold processing pavement company to pave the whole development's road for $300,000. It was a kind of loss leader for the company. If the county was satisfied with the job, the county would give the company more business.

The process worked great. After about five years, the roads got another top coat of cold process pavement and have not needed anything in maintenance since.

Prior to the pavement, the roads needed grading at least once a month and after serious rain storms or they became serious hazzards. That was a constant expense in equipment and man power.

Done right, paving is very cost effective.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
106. "This New Road Brought To You Courtesy of Your State Republicans. To phone in your appreciation,
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 12:23 AM
Jul 2013

please call 1-800-555-1212"

With the appropriate phone number, of course.

Those paper signs used by candidates here, with the wires, (they have those everywhere?) should be just about perfect.

NickB79

(19,233 posts)
109. It's happening in a lot of states, actually.
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 01:19 AM
Jul 2013
http://www.startribune.com/local/118713504.html

Michigan has changed more than 100 miles of pavement to gravel. After one road was torn up a year and a half ago, the County Road Association of Michigan bottled the millings and asphalt and sent them to state legislators as a message.

In North Dakota, a couple of stretches nearly 10 miles long have gone to gravel along with a sprinkling of smaller patches. County leaders are discussing more such changes, a transportation official there said.

South Dakota may hold the distinction of being the most torn-up state in the Midwest. A state transportation official estimated that 120 miles of pavement have been ground up or left to crumble back to gravel.


Note that this article is 2 YEARS OLD.

tofuandbeer

(1,314 posts)
112. This is obscene! There must be more to this.
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 02:23 AM
Jul 2013

Texas is huge. It seems 83 miles of road is a drop in the bucket. Are these roads that are not used much, so they've decided not to waste what little tax dollars they have on resurfacing these roads?

Either way, it sux! I'd hate to have the road near my home torn up for some rich frocks.

EDITED: now that I thought about it more: the GOP would love to have all streets that don't intersect with their lives be gravel. What a bunch of sick foks.

Snake Plissken

(4,103 posts)
114. " where Republican leadership hasn’t lowered our electric bill, our college tuition"
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 03:54 AM
Jul 2013

Those are next on the list, your electric bill will be brought down to $0.00 once electric service is discontinued and college tuition will also be free once all the colleges are replaced with churches, but first he have to work on eliminated residential running water.

erpowers

(9,350 posts)
116. Seriously Thought It Was The Onion
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 07:39 AM
Jul 2013

When I saw the title post my thought was, this must be from the onion.

Conium

(119 posts)
120. More dust to breathe
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 08:19 AM
Jul 2013

Texans love air pollution. It tastes like money. Besides, gravel roads are probably smoother than their paved ones.

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
129. That will be a boon for the vehicle repair shops. The added maintenance costs will far exceed
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 10:59 AM
Jul 2013

whatever road taxes that would be required to maintain the asphalt roads.

The political leadership in Texas is doing everything in their power to ruin a beautiful and bountiful State.

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