General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTX to replace asphalt roads with GRAVEL.
Welcome to Texas, where Republican leadership hasnt lowered our electric bill, our insurance rates, our college tuition, or our taxes, but they have done one helluva job lowering our standard of living.
Citing a funding shortfall and ****** impact of a historic oil drilling boom ******, Texas Department of Transportation officials on Thursday announced plans to move forward with converting some roads in West and South Texas to gravel.
Approximately 83 miles of asphalt roads will be torn up and converted to unpaved roads, TxDOT Deputy Executive Director John Barton said. The speed limits on those roads will probably be reduced to 30 mph.
I guess going back to cobblestone is out of the question so once we cant afford gravel, we got dirt. Dirt is still pretty damn cheap in Texas and if it was good enough for Davy Crockett, its good enough for south Texas.
http://juanitajean.com/
SO all this oil production doesn't add any $ to the state coffers, thus the roads go to hell WTF????
Hayduke Bomgarte
(1,965 posts)It'll create lots of jobs.
In the windshield and paint chip repair industries.
Lasher
(27,573 posts)What a shame.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Texas doesn't have State Income Taxes and they have declared some of the most built up areas "Free Enterprise Zones" free of all State and Federal Taxes.
So Basically its a Republican's Deregulation Wet-Dream there
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)So, now Texas gets to be the laboratory of capitalism.
It's not satisfactory, but there's a smidgeon more justice to that.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)These people, in just being mean spirited, and spiking the ball, shit on us in every way they can!
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)I believe they've evolved to thrive on urine.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Anything to not raise taxes. TX is rapidly regressing to a 19th century Third World country.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)...Austin.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)The Colorado River has far too much self-respect to get anywhere near Texas...although if it didn't, Austin would top the list of Places To Go.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Just not the Colorado River you're thinking of.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)ETA: No wonder so many of you people end up in my home state.
northoftheborder
(7,572 posts)out of the Western side of the Continental Divide. The other one, begins in N. Mexico running south and east to the Gulf of Mexico. This one runs right through Austin, and is surrounded on both sides with beautiful landscaped grounds and a fantastic hiking trail. Visit some day...You'll love it.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Although, according to Wiki, the other Colorado is entirely contained within Texas except for occasional input from normally-dry streams in NM.
I'll have to visit next time we go through Texas, although it will be hard to consider it more than a shadow of its mightier-although-much-dammed-and-abused cousin.
Thanks again.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)originates near the Tex/NM border and flows SE through a chain of "highland lakes" (created by FDR-era dam & hydro projects), through Austin (Mosow to the foaming Right), ending in the Gulf of Mexico.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)I've been schooled up on it now.
Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel
(3,273 posts)HubertHeaver
(2,522 posts)They are not funding the schools, the old roads are deteriorating and the new roads are self-funding (toll). So, where is the money going?
eppur_se_muova
(36,259 posts)and has a state Constitution that is more anti-government than any other.
CTyankee
(63,903 posts)to pave highways and roads throughout the state. It was his signature achievement, altho he had been a judge as well. He was lauded for having vision for the state. As a kid in Dallas we traveled to OK to visit friends and always made fun of the Okies, because at the state line, OK roads were gravel and dirt and we had paved roads to travel on.
This is a sad day for my beloved Uncle Tim...
Paladin
(28,252 posts)....to appreciate what a huge step backward this is.
Years ago, Texas highways and roads were first-class, and beyond that, they were sacrosanct. Highway funding and administration were enormously important---you didn't need a state boundary sign to know you'd just driven into Louisiana or New Mexico, the change in road quality was an immediate tip-off. And yes, political influence played a constant role: there were road projects in lightly-traveled West Texas that rivaled the Pyramids in terms of enormity, expense, and architectural achievement, while Highway 290 from Houston to Austin remained a stacked-up, two-lane death trap for decades beyond when it should have been expanded.
Taking improved roads from paved to gravel status in Texas? Governor Goodhair, your shortcomings are more evident every day......
CTyankee
(63,903 posts)government" argument to extremes. Truly a March of Folly. If you read Barbara Tuchman's book of the same title you can well fit her examples, which include the Trojan War and the Renaissance Popes abetting by their folly the Protestant Reformation, and American involvement in Vietnam, to today's folly of the Republican Party. In all these cases there was clear knowledge ahead of time of nearing disaster, there were remedies at hand that could be used and, in her words . . . the policy in question should be that of a group, not an individual ruler, and should persist beyond any one political lifetime."
This is depressing. And stupid. Really boneheaded stupid.
Paladin
(28,252 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)It used to be taken as a sign of progress and good government in most States that gravel roads got paved, even in rural areas. Politicians used to boast about it with pride.
dsc
(52,155 posts)now she would have to just call it Mississippi
reusrename
(1,716 posts)She was truly a national treasure.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)North Mississippi, that is.
eppur_se_muova
(36,259 posts)I lived a couple of years in San Antonio and got a lot of practice guessing at where the traffic lanes were. The painted markings were so worn and faded they were invisible in the rain, and nearly so after dark.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... set your watches back 2 centuries.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Let them secede and accelerate the process.
Kennah
(14,256 posts)BornLooser
(106 posts)Civilization2
(649 posts)Pathetic.
appleannie1
(5,067 posts)But the dears are looking out for your safety.
JCMach1
(27,556 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Called "The Perry", the balloon will soon be seen in the skies over the great state of Texas, floating along the southernly air routes over football stadiums located in Dallas and Houston.
Although the balloon will not require a pilot, ex-Governor Rick Perry announced that he is air-headed enough to make sure the balloon will be seen over the entire state.
As he has proudly volunteered to man the helm of the robotically-controlled balloon, meaning that once again, Perry won't be doing a damn thing for a living, and nothing for Texas!!!!
YEE-HAW!!!
Brigid
(17,621 posts)northoftheborder
(7,572 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Anyone have a pin?
Ravens.Ransom
(11 posts)kick back in your lawn chair and take pot shots with your gun.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)His head is a big enough target you'd have to be a really bad aim to miss.
hatrack
(59,583 posts)While their cars and trucks get shredded.
Wounded Bear
(58,647 posts)are in top notch shape.
mbperrin
(7,672 posts)The originals are destroyed by rig moves weighing 80,000 pounds and up, while the road was rated at 40,000.
There's a $200 fine for doing so, completely laughable, and completely insufficient for actually repairing anything. Won't even cover the cost of the gravel, I bet.
Tace
(6,800 posts)I live in Vermont, about three-and-a-half miles from the nearest paved road. Gravel roads are OK here. --Tace
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)Graded and gravel roads have to be cheaper to maintain in the long run. If heavy trucks beat them up, just dump some more rock and regrade it.
Heywood J
(2,515 posts)Besides, there's always concrete.
mbperrin
(7,672 posts)hauled along roads rated for 40,000 pounds. They will continue to haul these huge rigs on gravel.
I believe it won't be long before they're hauling them in a ditch.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)it! Dust dirt chipped paint. And the dust wasn't confined to the car, my house was a dusty dustbowl of a mess.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)that dust season around here is a pain in the neck.
Heavy rain as well, although even if they did pave my road, it would still wash out beneath the asphalt, like part of another road leading into town.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)In rural Western Mass.
I live about the same distance from a paved road. My road is a combination of dirt and gravel. Sometimes it's actually in better shape than the asphalt road is.
I like that people can't go speeding up and down my road, although some people do it anyway. One day they'll end up 15 or 20 feet down over the side of the road in a creek at the bottom.
Anyway, the only problem we ever had with a cracked windshield was because of a small rock out on the main (paved) road. The only dings and scratches on the body came from parking lots in the city. People opening their own doors. Stray shopping carts rolling into the sides.
I'm even expecting to someday see long scratches along the side put there by some disgruntled idiot who thinks it's OK to vandalize someone's SUV under the assumption that we are city dwellers, not people who live 20+ miles away on a dirt/gravel road at 1300 feet elevation.
sorefeet
(1,241 posts)property value?? A house or business on a black top road is more valuable than one on dusty gravel.
mockmonkey
(2,815 posts)They'll spray the road with waste oil laced with Dioxin, they found some left over from Times Beach at a bargain price.
mbperrin
(7,672 posts)Then the DDT jeep followed, spraying for mosquitoes.
Being downwind from White Sands, we caught that fallout.
And now, the country's newest nuclear waste dump has been built on top of our water aquifer.
"That which does not kill you" or sumthin'.
mockmonkey
(2,815 posts)they are consistent with their bad decisions.
proReality
(1,628 posts)"That which does not kill you immediately mutates your genes."
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)nebenaube
(3,496 posts)As I now live in southern California and I've notice this year that the palm seeds are not all the same size. And half the nectarines I just picked are co-joined twins.
Kennah
(14,256 posts)Champion Jack
(5,378 posts)Prosperity from natural gas! Ain't it wonderful?
penultimate
(1,110 posts)it's difficult to fathom there is a shortage of funds...
Response to penultimate (Reply #20)
penultimate This message was self-deleted by its author.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)People went from using aqueducts to digging wells for water, and they quarried the Coliseum for quick building materials. Yep, we're regressing.
sammytko
(2,480 posts)"The impacted roads are in four South Texas counties Live Oak, Dimmit, LaSalle and Zavala and two West Texas counties Reeves and Culberson"
It is mainly used by the oil and gas companies. The regular roads get torn up by all the traffic and it would mean constant repair. The article I read says that it also means the speed limits would be lowered to 30.
My state rep sent out a message that TxDOT is sending out more repair crews to the towns impacted by the traffic.
Could be funds slated for rural road repair will be spent on small city and town road repair?
WolverineDG
(22,298 posts)There are more cows than people in those counties. Gravel makes sense.
Ilsa
(61,694 posts)four counties. It's only 83 miles of road, but I'm sure a road of a couple of miles services numerous country homes. This is a big deal for the homes affected. Getting upgraded from gravel to asphalt was a big deal for them before, and now losing this is a big deal. The locals need to push the counties they live in to pave them.
TexasTowelie
(112,119 posts)One of the roads being converted back to gravel is the frontage road to Interstate 37 so it isn't limited to sparsely used roads.
In addition, there are several state highways through south Texas that no longer have paved shoulders due to the traffic caused by the oil boom.
Don't expect the state of Texas to spend any money on repairing roads in the small cities or towns either. Remember that Texas is famous for unfunded mandates in education--why should they be generous with transportation infrastructure since roads are the ideas of socialists?
sammytko
(2,480 posts)Being repaired in some way.
They finished a major project on hiway 16 that leads to some of the gas fields and are almost done widening a farm to market road that feeds into it.
I live in town, but the road in front of my house is maintained by the state. They are always doing something around here.
We just had a new high school built, new pre-k, new middle school construction started this summer. New stadium, track, baseball fields. And we are the poor town in the county.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Avalux
(35,015 posts)83 miles of road in remote areas (areas of west and south Texas are desolate), is barely anything. I'd like to see exactly where this is going to be done, but otherwise, not a big deal.
calimary
(81,220 posts)Just watch some teabaggers and libertarians start whining and yowling about that somehow crimps their "freedom" to speed.
Oh their "freedom-freedoms."
svpadgham
(670 posts)In fact, it's sort of fun in a pants-shitting kind of way.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)that you only hit the top of the bumps...much smoother that way.
But you do have to hope there are no curves or reasons to stop suddenly Up Ahead.
Signed: a Yay-hoo
svpadgham
(670 posts)If you look at the map and see the affected counties, you'll notice the areas are sparsely populated. It's not like they're ripping up downtown Austin. In fact, from what I have seen with my own two beady little eyes most road funding is going to where a lot of people are moving to, rather than places with stagnant or dying populations.
Ilsa
(61,694 posts)to push repairs back down to the county level.
Senate Bill 1747 would establish a Transportation Infrastructure Fund and permit counties in high-impact oil and gas producing regions to create County Transportation Reinvestment Zones. These zones would allow counties to use increased revenues from county property and sales taxes to repair and maintain roads that have been damaged by oil production activity.
http://www.rigzone.com/news/oil_gas/a/126717/Texas_Legislature_OKs_Bill_for_OilImpacted_County_Road_Repairs
But the timing is wrong.
The legislature is in special session II and their big issue is transportation infrastructure funding.
Thursday they were talking about it. Friday they had working groups and met to talk about it.
Monday they have to vote on it.
Coincidentally, the amount that the legislature's arguing over is in the ballpark of what DOT says it needs.
This is an attempt to push the ultraconservatives who are against spending the money and the (D) who want either more or different spending, to just say "yes." Even if the result is a referendum, and even if it is in 2014.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Our roads here in NC go to hell when the Republicans get the majorities. State roads get so bad that chunks are literally coming out of the actual road. When we get Democrats in office, state roads get repaved.
Igel
(35,300 posts)They run things, so they don't much have a choice.
The current special session has, as one priority, securing additional transportation infrastructure spending. Perry said if the legislature fails to do so, he'll call a 3rd special session.
The vote is Monday. Thursday and Friday the legislature was meeting to iron out compromises. And just by coincidence, TXDOT issues this bit of embarrassing news.
(However, it's not that much of a problem.)
Arctic Dave
(13,812 posts)Where I work we have nothing but gravel roads. They need constant maintenance with heavy equipment to keep from falling apart. We also have to replace our work vehicles every 4-5 years due to them being ruined from the constant beating they get from driving on the roads.
Windshields need replace annually.
Tires need replaced annual.
Brakes every couple of years.
Any rubber product every couple of years.
Wheel wells are completely sandblasted of paint in a few years and all fasteners need to be cut off because the threads are destroyed.
raccoon
(31,110 posts)Arctic Dave
(13,812 posts)CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)There is probably as much oil in 'paved roads' as there is in the tar sands. And since it is all about extraction these days, this source is easy pickings considering there is no hole to dig.
This will catch on because Americans love to drive and the car-makers have been preparing for this for decades by building off-road, four wheel drive vehicles.
.
Brother Buzz
(36,416 posts)Texas is eating their seed corn
Ilsa
(61,694 posts)Last edited Sat Jul 27, 2013, 11:57 AM - Edit history (1)
being extracted. Oil from fracking is in some other plays in other counties, but it's natural gas they are after in this part of the Eagle Ford Shale play.
On edit: It's mostly gas in Live Oak, but some oil is produced there. There is potential for more oil to be extracted from the entire Eagle Ford shale play.
Mopar151
(9,980 posts)This machine is a COLD PLANER
It works much like a drum style floor sander to level out old, broken pavement, particularly that which has been repaved and/or repaired a lot, and may be too thick (makes the old cracks come to the surface). The stuff you see conveyored onto trucks and hauled away is called Recycled Asphalt Paving, and it makes a hard-topping for secondary roads, which packs a little harder than dirt and isn't so dusty. It can also be run back through an asphalt plant, with some new tar and perhaps aggregate mixed in, and then reapplied with a paving machine. There are machines that train together to do this continuously, but the headache factor has gotta be huge.
This is a RECLAIMER
It tills up the broken pavement, thin concrete, head-size rocks, sand, and mud, and can pump water or chemicals (primarily emusifiers) into the fine gravel the former road has become. Grading, drainage repair, and compaction will make a decent, hard-packed gravel road. RAP or gravel can be added in by spreading it before chewing the road up, building up the road and improving te quality of the "gravel paving". Beats chuckholes that'll take a wheel off and miles of washboard. Laying new asphalt over this makes a good, smooth road, that seems to stay together well, and it can be done next week, or a couple years down the road when sanity returns.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)No one with decent paint or a new car will want to travel gravel roads. I remember the days of the old tar & gravel.
In my town they just used a blacktop slurry which was put on over the top of the old blacktop. Its got heavier stone mixed in but was cheaper than other methods. On the hottest day here 97+, my dinky ass highway dept with some hired on machinery paved my street which is a 1 1/2 miles long 2 lanes. No loose grit no loose stone. In my state they normally send out a pavement reclaimer. It takes up and recycles the old pavement its then rolled out a road bed before repaving. A portion of old blacktop is required in all new mixes.
southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)Ya'll better be paying attention the sneaking little critters do everything behind close doors. Before you know it women and people without property will lose their right to vote. Maybe they will be outlawing divorce. Pay attention people especially republicans who keep voting for these kind of republicans.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)I guess no step backward is too far for these assholes.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Won't that cost more money than maintaining them?
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)Igel
(35,300 posts)The loads that have been hauled over the roads are twice what they've been built for. TXDOT considers them safety hazards as they are.
Oil extraction equipment is heavy. Not many cars on those roads, mostly pickups for oil workers and industry trucks.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)I never mistook the GOP to be "deep thinkers" but still... how can they not be embarrassed by this?
1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)but the locals blame all of our problems on Obama's war on coal. Jesus, its tough to live inside a zoo.
Ilsa
(61,694 posts)have enough money to abandon their homes and move their butts to more temperate climes!
Honestly, I think most of that area should be abandoned as unlivable, the people relocated. Only send in the O&G workers and support industries. It's hot, dusty, dry, with rattlesnakes and javelina for traveling companions.
ShadowLiberal
(2,237 posts)Way to make part of your state seem like part of another country Texas.
Lobo27
(753 posts)That its a plan in their part. Think about it, say Sen. Davis or a Castro brother wins governorship. At some point during their time in office they will use it against them.
"Look Texans the democrats have let your roads gone to shit!"
My only hope for my state is that this mother fucker Abbott doesn't win...
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
freshwest
(53,661 posts)No need to tear these roads up. So I guess next they will tear up the power lines. I smell some make work contracts for some of Perry's fascist friends there.
penultimate
(1,110 posts)At least in the areas I've been in and around (I've been to and from most of the major cities)
I'm only mentioning this because of all the comments about Texas roads going back to the 1800's 'cause of this. If these roads are rarely traveled, it might actually be a good thing to contract our over expansion. Do we really need to pave the entire world?
northoftheborder
(7,572 posts)the interstate system was built. It was so obvious, especially crossing the border into another state, like Arkansas, you would go from a solid safe well maintained road, suddenly into a really shoddy surfaced road, with unsafe shoulders. We did have a lot of gravel roads (the county roads) but gradually have been paved. i can't understand going back to gravel roads, they are really difficult and expensive to maintain, especially with truck traffic. With rains, the gravel eventually migrates to the ditches, and even in dry area, gradually becomes an awful washboard over which you can travel about 20mph without shaking your back bones out of place.
Truly, Texas has become Mississippi, only more arrogant in insisting "we're the biggest and
best."
Kennah
(14,256 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)kentuck
(111,079 posts)..and an indication or where this present Republican Party will take our country. Wake up people! I'm tired of talking...
Aristus
(66,316 posts)n/t
MrsBrady
(4,187 posts)but I know what you mean
Aristus
(66,316 posts)This is not a knock against good Texas progressives who are trying so hard...
BTW, I'm glad you replaced your Lone Star avatar. I DO stand with Texas women!...
Igel
(35,300 posts)And, while you're at it, there's this
http://www.chron.com/news/texas/article/Texas-lawmakers-reach-deal-on-transportation-funds-4688227.php?cmpid=htx
"Instead they have proposed taking an estimated $848 million in oil and gas taxes that would normally flow into the Rainy Day Fund to help pay for transportation. Nichols said the money would only be spent on non-toll roads and bridges and could not be spent to pay off debt."
They want the referendum on this to be in 2014 because of a $2 billion water infrastructure referendum this fall.
gulliver
(13,180 posts)It's "oil extraction." Calling it "production" makes it seem more virtuous and harder to tax.
Ilsa
(61,694 posts)It's almost entirely gas extraction. Live Oak Co has some oil, but a lot of the fracking is for natural gas along the Eagle Ford Shale play.
"Production?" Need a refinery for that, and you are right: it's still not production.
sammytko
(2,480 posts)Ilsa
(61,694 posts)I have an old friend whose spouse worked there. There are refineries further down-river, too, closer to the Port of Corpus Christi.
I was talking about the drilling in LOC being mostly for natural gas, not oil, and that I agree about the term "production" vs "extraction." And "refining" should be the term, not "producing", just for cleanup and turning crude into higher grade crude or gasoline.
sammytko
(2,480 posts)In Kingsville tx.
Haven't been there in years, but planning on doing a tour of the king ranch in the fall.
When I was a student at A/I, used to be able to drive on the ranch, guess its locked up now.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)The destruction of America continues...
Making a rural comeback: The old gravel road
http://www.startribune.com/local/118713504.html
jmowreader
(50,553 posts)Between the trucks forcing the gravel down into the roadbed and them flinging it off, gravel roads used by heavy equipment don't stay graveled long.
GeorgeGist
(25,319 posts)one state at a time. USA! USA! USA!
raptor_rider
(1,014 posts)Constant replacements of windshields!
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)is paved with good intentions. So I guess if you stay off the paved roads...
NMDemDist2
(49,313 posts)and yeah, the trucks tear up the roads.
1monster
(11,012 posts)After twenty years of reneging on their promises to pave the roads in our development, the county agreed to pave our roads if we, the land owners on each road paid for it, over an above our regular property taxes. They got very few takers.
Then one day, the county got an offer from a cold processing pavement company to pave the whole development's road for $300,000. It was a kind of loss leader for the company. If the county was satisfied with the job, the county would give the company more business.
The process worked great. After about five years, the roads got another top coat of cold process pavement and have not needed anything in maintenance since.
Prior to the pavement, the roads needed grading at least once a month and after serious rain storms or they became serious hazzards. That was a constant expense in equipment and man power.
Done right, paving is very cost effective.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Metro135
(359 posts)The inside of Rick Perry's head?
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)please call 1-800-555-1212"
With the appropriate phone number, of course.
Those paper signs used by candidates here, with the wires, (they have those everywhere?) should be just about perfect.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)NickB79
(19,233 posts)In North Dakota, a couple of stretches nearly 10 miles long have gone to gravel along with a sprinkling of smaller patches. County leaders are discussing more such changes, a transportation official there said.
South Dakota may hold the distinction of being the most torn-up state in the Midwest. A state transportation official estimated that 120 miles of pavement have been ground up or left to crumble back to gravel.
Note that this article is 2 YEARS OLD.
tofuandbeer
(1,314 posts)Texas is huge. It seems 83 miles of road is a drop in the bucket. Are these roads that are not used much, so they've decided not to waste what little tax dollars they have on resurfacing these roads?
Either way, it sux! I'd hate to have the road near my home torn up for some rich frocks.
EDITED: now that I thought about it more: the GOP would love to have all streets that don't intersect with their lives be gravel. What a bunch of sick foks.
Snake Plissken
(4,103 posts)Those are next on the list, your electric bill will be brought down to $0.00 once electric service is discontinued and college tuition will also be free once all the colleges are replaced with churches, but first he have to work on eliminated residential running water.
erpowers
(9,350 posts)When I saw the title post my thought was, this must be from the onion.
yellerpup
(12,253 posts)Next: privatizing roads
Conium
(119 posts)Texans love air pollution. It tastes like money. Besides, gravel roads are probably smoother than their paved ones.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)whatever road taxes that would be required to maintain the asphalt roads.
The political leadership in Texas is doing everything in their power to ruin a beautiful and bountiful State.
Bethany Rockafella
(952 posts)There's your answer.