HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » If you know any American ...

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 07:51 PM

If you know any American persons living in another country than America than please let them know

about this. Those that are snowbirds and green card holders, current and those that are no longer using them, need to read this as well. Non American spouses married to Americans living abroad and children of Americans living abroad do need to be aware as well. There are so many that are not even aware of this draconian thing that will happen to them. Pass it on.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/313775-fatca-simple-premise-gone-terribly-wrong#more-blogs

Yet, FATCA is a nightmare for "U.S. persons" living in countries outside the United States. In 2009, President Obama clearly stated this law "would require overseas banks to provide 1099s for their American clients, just like Americans have to do for their bank accounts in this country."

"If (financial institutions) don’t cooperate with us, we will assume that they are sheltering money in tax havens and act accordingly," Obama insisted.

Now, the U.S. Treasury expects banks in every country worldwide to report funds held by "U.S. persons" (not all are U.S. citizens) beginning in 2015. If they do not, foreign financial institutions (FFIs) face huge financial penalties and sanctions.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/313775-fatca-simple-premise-gone-terribly-wrong#more-blogs#ixzz2aO4APnYC

64 replies, 9019 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 64 replies Author Time Post
Reply If you know any American persons living in another country than America than please let them know (Original post)
riverbendviewgal Jul 2013 OP
kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #1
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #2
VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #3
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #4
oldhippie Jul 2013 #6
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #7
HiPointDem Jul 2013 #12
riverbendviewgal Jul 2013 #16
HiPointDem Jul 2013 #17
SugarShack Jul 2013 #53
riverbendviewgal Jul 2013 #54
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #18
HiPointDem Jul 2013 #19
Nye Bevan Jul 2013 #27
muriel_volestrangler Jul 2013 #21
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #22
HiPointDem Jul 2013 #25
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #32
riverbendviewgal Jul 2013 #38
elehhhhna Jul 2013 #28
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #31
COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #42
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #43
snooper2 Jul 2013 #49
Common Sense Party Jul 2013 #51
Xithras Jul 2013 #60
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #63
Xithras Jul 2013 #64
riverbendviewgal Jul 2013 #14
Post removed Jul 2013 #26
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #34
In_The_Wind Jul 2013 #36
RudynJack Jul 2013 #39
PETRUS Jul 2013 #44
magical thyme Jul 2013 #45
riverbendviewgal Jul 2013 #47
Sen. Walter Sobchak Jul 2013 #23
oldhippie Jul 2013 #5
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #9
oldhippie Jul 2013 #11
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #15
truedelphi Jul 2013 #58
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #62
HiPointDem Jul 2013 #13
Lancero Jul 2013 #8
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #10
pampango Jul 2013 #20
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #24
elehhhhna Jul 2013 #29
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #30
Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #37
NoOneMan Jul 2013 #40
riverbendviewgal Jul 2013 #41
riverbendviewgal Jul 2013 #48
riverbendviewgal Jul 2013 #56
riverbendviewgal Jul 2013 #61
loli phabay Jul 2013 #33
DustyJoe Jul 2013 #35
riverbendviewgal Jul 2013 #52
Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #46
riverbendviewgal Jul 2013 #50
mick063 Jul 2013 #55
riverbendviewgal Jul 2013 #57
riverbendviewgal Jul 2013 #59

Response to riverbendviewgal (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 08:09 PM

1. So expatriates won't be able to hide income and evade taxes??

 

Boo hoo. Nothing draconian at all about cracking down on 1%ers cheating on their taxes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 08:14 PM

2. If you are an expat, you shouldn't have taxes due on foreign income

 

But America being the exceptional exception, they have a right to all global income it would seem

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 08:17 PM

3. Why?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 08:23 PM

4. Why should they?

 

I have a child born out of country. They will likely not live in the US. They will not go to public schools, utilize US health care services, contribute to the economy or benefit whatsoever from the US government. For the rest of their lives they will be hounded for income information from the US. Why will my child owe US taxes?

What are taxes for? To fund a government. Why should someone pay them? Because we all benefit from the service of the government. Should someone who does not benefit be liable?

Just about every country in the world says "NO" resoundingly. Why is the US special? Why do you deserve expats income? Why do you want to double tax people income?

You do realize that wherever people are bonafide residents, their income is already taxed by that country that they receive services from? Why burden hard working people more just because your government can't properly tax its own residents?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 08:30 PM

6. If they are US Citizens, they have the rights and duties ....

 

... of US Citizens. Pay the taxes. It's the law.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oldhippie (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 08:35 PM

7. Your law sucks

 

Double taxing hardworking people who don't even live there because your incompetant government can't fund itself from slashing taxes on the upperclass sounds like a real dutiful approach.

Seriously, get your house in order before you consider having any high ground to talk about rights and duties. You are just making an excuse to gouge people who have no representation to avoid unjust taxation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 08:51 PM

12. renounce your citizenship then. easy solution.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #12)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:03 PM

16. many are

Check the figures.
It costs too. $450 EXIT tax and report of 6 years bank info and 3 years tax returns. Some do not have to do this because they became citizens of other country before 2004. They just need a CLN.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:04 PM

17. i don't care. bye.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #16)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 03:54 PM

53. Indeed. My sis in law and my nephews went to Ireland. They are now Irish citizens!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SugarShack (Reply #53)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 03:56 PM

54. Please advise them about FATCA

They need to know what will be happening in 2014.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #12)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:04 PM

18. That makes Christmas trips a bitch

 

But to think, easy border access for a lifetime of double taxation on income earned somewhere fuckin else? Yeah, maybe its not worth it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:04 PM

19. yep. bye.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:25 PM

27. Non-citizens can visit the US, no problem.

I'm sure many DUers have encountered foreign visitors. Even at Christmas time.

So renouncing US citizenship would seem to be the solution.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #12)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:07 PM

21. The article claims that wouldn't be enough

Whether this is correct, I'm not sure, but:

Even the King of Thailand, the Mayor of London, England and the Premier of the Canadian province of New Brunswick are considered "U.S. persons" under American law simply because they were born in United States.


That would, for instance, include my uncle, who was born in the USA, to British parents (like the Mayor of London), but has not lived there for about 88 years. He renounced his opportunity to be an American citizen around WW2, when he joined the British military, rather than the American.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #21)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:14 PM

22. Exactly. People have no inkling how many people this impacts who have no US interests

 

Just normal people. The entire class division in the US is driving this blind, uber pro-tax stance (that still allows the rich and corporations to sideswipe it) that fails to understand that the US is a world exception in its absurd global tax scheme. Other countries do not do this and do not double-tax its global citizens.

My current taxes fund programs for the poor and universal healthcare where I choose to live. I couldn't be more proud of that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #21)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:20 PM

25. i'd like to see some support for the proposition that you can renounce your citizenship & still

 

have to pay US taxes on income earned outside the US.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #25)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:50 PM

32. As far as I am aware, you pay an "exit tax" when you renounce on all wealth

 

I haven't verified this because I haven't investigated this option fully: http://www.expattaxandlaw.com/Exit_tax_877A_US_Citizens_Renouncing_Citizenship.html

Its done once. Then no more NR returns each year forever. Im not sure if thats is still or ever was finalized

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #32)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 10:09 PM

38. us has the banks where you have accounts report for 10 years after you renounce

BUT think on this people . They will have foreign banks report to the IRS on people who renounced.





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:32 PM

28. Nooneman is a one issue antitaxer misinformation spewer

IGNORE THe TROLL

He's from the Heritage Foundation or he's a Koch Head

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Reply #28)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:46 PM

31. Oh, Im a sockpuppet now? WTF are you talking about?

 

I live overseas. I don't make tons. I have to file a 1040NR. I get an exemption on earned income up to a certain amount. Its all bullshit. Other countries don't do this. WTF are you talking about?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 08:29 AM

42. You do know that there is a quite large

exemption for US citizens working abroad, don't you? I haven't looked at the law in years. Some time ago you were allowed to earn $85,000 a year without being liable for US taxes. In addition, you can deduct foreign withholding and other taxes you paid.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to COLGATE4 (Reply #42)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 10:02 AM

43. Yes, its been posted here.

 

Your point? Thats not large where I live. Exemption or not, it makes no sense.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #43)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 03:40 PM

49. You'll be okay in the morning

When you wake up you will have forgotten all about it

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oldhippie (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 03:52 PM

51. If they earn the income in this country, they pay the taxes to this country.

If they are living in, say, Brasil, and earn the income in Brasil, then they can pay the taxes to Brasil.

Why should they pay taxes to both the U.S. AND Brasil?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oldhippie (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 04:37 PM

60. The U.S. is the only first world nation with citizenship based taxation.

In the rest of the intelligent and civilized world, nations only tax their citizens when they are making money from that nations employers, or residing within that nations territories. Only two nations on the planet punish their citizens this way...the United States and Eritrea (a single party dictatorial state, and the only nation on Earth that scores lower than North Korea on some human rights comparisons).

If a UK citizen lives in Paris full time and works for a French employer, they pay their taxes to France, not the UK. If a Mexican citizen lives in the U.S. and works for a U.S. employer, they pay taxes in the U.S, not Mexico. If a Spaniard moves to Finland and goes to work for Nokia, he owes his taxes to the Finn's, not the Spanish government.

So goes the rest of the first world. All except the United States. We're "special" and recently decided that the mere fact that you're born on our dirt means that you owe the government a cut of your income for the rest of your life. Even when that nations government is ALREADY taxing you on that income.

There's nothing liberal or progressive about extracting taxes from retirees and expatriates simply because they haven't renounced their citizenship. It's abusive and fascist. It's not something that anyone here should be defending.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Xithras (Reply #60)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 04:51 PM

63. Love it or Leave it (and pay taxes forever)

 

We're "special" and recently decided that the mere fact that you're born on our dirt means that you owe the government a cut of your income for the rest of your life.


Or just if your parents are born on this dirt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #63)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 05:15 PM

64. It'll be interesting to see the IRS try and chase them down.

I don't see many nations complying with IRS enforcement efforts against citizens of other countries who have never entered the United States and yet hold U.S. citizenship by birthright. My wife has a cousin that applies to. He was born and raised in Vancouver to American parents, and technically holds American citizenship by birth, but considers himself Canadian and has only visited the U.S. a few times in his life as a tourist, or to visit relatives on holidays.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 08:58 PM

14. exactly

Several types of american expats.
children born of an american parent outside of the USA.
Children born in america in an American hospital because non American parents on vacation and birth was not expected.
Children born in america to non american parents who were there for work and did not remain in usa and become American citizens.
AP living abroad for decades as permanent residents not knowing they had to file US tax returns, even if they would not have to pay US taxes.
APs who became citizens of the country they work and reside in, never going back to the USA.
Some AP never aware they were considered US having never worked or lived in the USA any part of their lives. They just have an AP for a parent.
Green card holders are liable even if their card expired.
Snow birds liable if they have property or a bank account in the US, even if they are no US CITIZENS.

That is the short list.
The USA and Eritrea are the only countries in the world that double tax.
Most ex pats are just middle class or less. Never making more than the limit to have pay tax.

The tax consultants are salivating over this make money for them to fill tax returns. Some charging more than $1000 for a year return plus the IRS will charge penalties for each year charged, as much as $10,000 a year.

Many ex pats are now renouncing or relinquishing. They have families and jobs in the country they reside.
They are not traitors or tax dodgers.
I sensed some hostility in the reply comments.
There another point to FATCA and that it is suppose to be reciprocal and the US provide the banking info of non americans who have bank, accounts and investments in american banks. US House Rep says this will not happen. TREASURY is using strong arm tactics with the countries in the world.

Read the article.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #4)


Response to Post removed (Reply #26)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:54 PM

34. Are you calling a fellow DUer a "Koch head"

 

Is that a policy violation?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #34)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 10:04 PM

36. Looks like the jury agrees with you.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jul 28, 2013, 10:02 PM, and the Jury voted 5-1 to HIDE IT.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #34)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 10:15 PM

39. Only if a jury decides that way

and it seems they did. But from what I've read in ATA, there's no longer a specific rule regarding this. It's up to juries.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 10:21 AM

44. What are taxes for?

An alternate view: taxes create demand for the currency in question, encourage the development of markets, and moderate inflation. A currency-issuing government such as the US does not actually need tax revenue in order to spend.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 10:29 AM

45. do you not have a US embassy where you are?

 

Will that embassy not provide you services?

If your children plan to never return to the US, they can always renounce their citizenship

As, as the poster above wrote, so can you. If you don't plan to return and don't plan to collect Social Security when you retire, then you always have the option of leaving for good.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to magical thyme (Reply #45)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 03:37 PM

47. people have left for good,,some more than 50 years ago

some never went to the USA...They were just born to an American parent in another land.
This law came up out of surprise in 2009....America is the only country in the world beside Eritria that is citizen based taxation not resident based taxation..

People will rectify this ..Can renounce, relinquish but those that never knew they American are caught by surprise and have to file US income taxes and report their bank earnings for at least 6 years...even if they never worked a day or lived in the USA. AND in 2014 the banks in the country where these APs live in have to report their bank transactions and amount of money they have in the bank, forever..

Some now say this will also happen in the USA...All banks will have to report the government all the money and investments Americans have in their accounts.. You want that?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:16 PM

23. If only...

Most of the people who are being nailed by this are the children of expatriates with few ties to the United States and no disproportionate wealth and would never think to file a US tax return. They just happen to be easier to identify than the well heeled tax evader.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to riverbendviewgal (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 08:28 PM

5. I don't see the problem .....

 

US citizens living abroad still have to pay US income taxes on their income. If Bill Gates takes his money to Switzerland and invests it there and lives there he still has to pay US taxes on the income. Do you want it otherwise?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oldhippie (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 08:38 PM

9. I don't see why that's a problem

 

If income leaves the US, it has already been taxed (or your shitty system failed). Why do all perpetual profits made from that income elsewhere subject to infinite & perpetual taxation, if such capital's action no longer depends upon the US infrastructure and its initial taxes have already been paid?

It makes no sense. Not a single bit.

If the US is failing to tax that income when it is first made, fix that problem. If the US is no longer an attractive place for people to live an invest their money, fix that problem.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #9)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 08:44 PM

11. Are you sure ....

 

... you're a Democrat?

So it's OK with you if the 1% cash in their assets, pay the capital gains, and take their funds to Switzerland and live the high life in Europe and never again have to pay US tax on any of that income?

You realize that would result in massive capital flight? You think that would be good for the country? It sounds like you don't care about the USA.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oldhippie (Reply #11)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:02 PM

15. First off, it'd be fine with me if the US tax system wasn't broke in the first place

 

The real problem isn't about what the US can get from overseas income forever, but rather that its capital gains rate is shit and the 1% pay a pitiful effective tax rate on the money in the first place. Sure, if cashing out their assets and leaving actually incurred the proper amount of revenue for the infrastructure they relied on to generate it, then sure, yeah, Im fine with that. Of the money I took overseas (which wasn't much), I paid 30%+ on it when I earned it in the states. Those taxes didn't do dick except fund and unjust war so I'm glad to not pay em


You realize that would result in massive capital flight?


Huh? Rich people don't have to worry about this shit as of now. They have accountants and shelters this wont touch. Only really the middle class that leave are caught in this trap. So if there isn't capital flight now, there never would be.


It sounds like you don't care about the USA.


Honestly, I really don't care much at all beyond how it impacts me. Most of the pitiful political discourse these days is a joke. A world sideshow.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #9)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 04:35 PM

58. To me, it makes a great deal of sense.

And I have worked alongside of people from many different nations. Often they are getting full benefits, including housing vouchers, food stamps, despite owning property in other countries, having bank accounts in other countries etc.

One woman even confided in me that she loves coming here to work for a year or two, get her health insurance and have her kids here, while knowing she can go back to her untouched monies safely stashed away.

My spouse used to label my statements "racist," but then he got a job at Social Services, and suddenly he realized how we as a nation are being scammed.

And I could care less what color someone's skin is. If a person is not suffering from poverty, they should spend their own money and not come to the USA for handouts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to truedelphi (Reply #58)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 04:42 PM

62. "they should spend their own money and not come to the USA for handouts"

 

What in the world are you ranting about?

The US is that last place anyone wants to go for handouts. Its a shithole.

But everything you are saying has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

The question at hand is should a baby born in another country to US parents, who never steps foot a single day in the US or has anything to do with the US, be potentially liable for US taxes the rest of their lives and harassed for financial information as well as their banking institutions?

This would be like if Mexico was taxing income from US born babies of their immigrant parents, who never left the US a single day of their life for Mexico.

No, it makes no sense. The US Government here is being the welfare queen looking for handouts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oldhippie (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 08:51 PM

13. bill gates actually doesn't. rich people have ways.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to riverbendviewgal (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 08:37 PM

8. The entire issue is that...

This law doesn't differentiate between the corporations that are dodging taxes and the middle class citizen who decided to move to another country in search of new opportunities.

This bill will affect both.

That said, taxing corporations good. They make money off of the US. But forcing a person to pay taxes to the US when all he owns is a local bakery in *insert country here* that only serves *nationality/whatever here*?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lancero (Reply #8)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 08:40 PM

10. Worse, that bakery is already taxed in *insert country here*

 

Lets bleed people dry across the globe more because the 1% pay a 15% effective tax rate at home

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to riverbendviewgal (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:06 PM

20. There are many treaties that prevent double taxation of people who are citizens of one country but

live and work in another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_treaty

Libertarian lawmaker blocks international tax treaties, making strange bedfellows

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) has been holding up treaties with Hungary, Luxembourg and Switzerland in the Senate for well over a year now, a turn of events that has angered business interests that have called approval of those sorts of agreements routine.

Liberal groups have more recently joined in the efforts to free up the treaties, which they say would help smooth the implementation of a law aimed at cracking down on Americans who use foreign banks to cheat on their taxes.

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/international-taxes/297741-libertarian-lawmaker-blocks-international-tax-treaties

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pampango (Reply #20)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:17 PM

24. Many of the double taxation exemptions only cover up to a certain amount

 

Basically, its the average income where I live, which also is accompanied by the average debt of $30K+ per household. So as long as I stay below "average" (pretty fucked, going in debt, but treading water), I get to avoid double taxation

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #24)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:38 PM

29. I know many expats working in the oil biz

and you are full of beans

on purpose or what? google is your friend. use it. and stop misrepresenting int'l tax treaties and rates. we aren't as stupid as you think.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Reply #29)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:42 PM

30. What are you talking about? Explain exactly what I am wrong about

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #30)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 10:05 PM

37. I know people who are Americans living abroad and they only wind up paying US taxes on

 

expat income when they make a very sizable amount of money. Very sizable. The others have to file forms, but you know I have to do that for 2 or 3 States every year. My income most years is such that only my resident State really gets any money, but the others have to be filed and one has to refund me most years and yes it is a pain in the ass and extra work but it is not like being taxed in each State as if it was my only State at all.
The UK has big issues with 'non domiciled' citizens fleeing to tax havens. They are legally allowed to do so of course but ethically and morally I think it is wrong. I agree with JK Rowling, who stays and pays on truck loads of income. UK made her wealthy, she remains to repay the society that nurtured her.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #37)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 10:21 PM

40. Its under $100K

 

And pretty damn well at the "average" income in my province, which barely helps people tread water. So if I make above average, Ill pay Federal, provincial, 12% sales tax, and US tax on all amounts above the exemption

BTW, interestingly, last I looked it up it was in the $80K range. Its jumped up quite a bit since then:
http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Foreign-Earned-Income-Exclusion

In any case, I find the notion absurd. I find it absurd that my children have to face it, no fault of their own (or face that whole "exit tax" business)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #37)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 11:35 PM

41. people leave America for various reasons

Like getting married. They stay in their new country, pay taxes, become citizens. The USA wants all foreign banks to report the banking info of these APs and their non-American spouses, their children, even not born in the USA.

What is wrong is that the US government is making the foreign banks report on APs and telling the foreign governments they be reciprocal and report on their citizens who have bank accounts and investments in the USA . House rep Posey from Florida wrote treasury dept that republicans will not allow reciprocity, in fear that many foreign companies and individuals will take their money out of the USA. So foreign countries are being strong armed if they do not report APs bank accounts, even if the money was earned only in the country the AP lives.
Remember this FATCA is a new law. This is new many APs are just becoming aware.
Some banks in europe are closing bank accounts, even joint bank accounts shared with non American spouse. Mortgages are getting canceled, APs are losing their jobs. Many are dual citizens. It does not matter. There is no US in most cases. It is quite a dilemma. These people are not the 1 percent invading taxes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Reply #29)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 03:38 PM

48. These are people who are returning to live in the USA

They are not those who became citizens of another country. It was not until 2009 that this has become an issue.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pampango (Reply #20)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 04:06 PM

56. You are talking apples and oranges.

You know nothing about FATCA.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pampango (Reply #20)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 04:40 PM

61. Here is a letter from Rand Paul and others that will interest you. to Geithner

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to riverbendviewgal (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:51 PM

33. when I retire, I will probuably renouncr citizenship

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to riverbendviewgal (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 10:04 PM

35. retirees

I wonder if this affects my son-in-laws folks. They moved to Belize and do busy work there, nothing earth shattering or a moneymaker. They keep a bank account in the US where their SS is direct deposited and don't bank in Belize because the banking system there is so corrupt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DustyJoe (Reply #35)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 03:52 PM

52. You can check with the Isaac Brock society to get info on that

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to riverbendviewgal (Original post)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 10:40 AM

46. an established bona fide non-resident U.S. Citizen is exempt from about the first $94,000 - annually

of earned income - but they have to file and declare the income and they do have to spend a full 365 days outside the U.S. with no more than 30 days back inside U.S. territory --- Reference IRS Form 2555 or 2555EZ for the finer details.

This is also the case with almost every other country in the world - Even Sweden exempts almost all foreign earned income with rules considerably laxer than the U.S.


For some finer details regarding U.S. Tax law for foreign earned income:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i2555.pdf

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #46)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 03:49 PM

50. Many will renounce and relinquish

They do not want to be a US citizen when the US government will get the foreign banks they bank and invest in report to the government directly ...or if they are not allowed they kick off these people who lived and banked for decades off accounts, as well as their non American spouses who share an account with the.

All countries in the world have resident based taxation...The American government and Eritrea has citizen based taxation. This was never an issue until 2009...but now there is a financial crises in America and small minnows are easier to catch...90 percent don't own anything to the IRS but now they will be penalize $10,000 per income tax return year not filed. Some have not filed for decades.


Switzerland is kicking off Americans off accounts, UNLESS , they have over a Million dollars in their accounts. Americans who worked there for decades and became Swiss citizens are losing their jobs and their mortgages


read this and check out the whole blog.

http://www.iexpats.com/rolled-back-deadline-of-fatca-gives-critics-hope/
Who, apart from the Treasury officials of course, is really pushing the FATCA agenda?
Mainly from two sources. First, foreign governments that are afraid to defy the US or have deluded themselves into thinking that FATCA compliance, if it were mutual (which it won’t be), would lead to a bonanza of tax revenues, also a pipe dream. Second, the people who would be the only real beneficiaries of FATCA: the so-called “FATCA Compliance Complex” (FCC) of tax lawyers,
accountants, and software and technology firms, who hope to make a fortune selling compliance to FFIs.


This is a very extensive blog.
that will help people understand.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/14/about-the-isaac-brock-society/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to riverbendviewgal (Original post)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 04:02 PM

55. King George wants to tax the colonies.

 

Stock transaction tax

Windfall profit tax

Tariffs on imported goods from nations that don't meet environmental and worker safety standards.

Those should be the priority.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mick063 (Reply #55)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 04:12 PM

57. The thing is that FATCA is a money maker...and taking from the easiest and those not the one percent

The money to be made is not through their income taxes as they usually payer a higher income tax to the country they reside in. and most never meet the limit that they would have to pay.

Many have retirement savings which FATCA is after...a mere pittance for the Rommneys but years of saving and working in their chosen countries other than the USA.
Bank Accounts will be accessed, all PRIVATE information will be handed over to IRS without the American person's permission or those APs are not allowed to have those foreign accounts, the accounts that are in the country they live and work in.

If you are really interested in knowing what is happening read this
http://www.iexpats.com/rolled-back-deadline-of-fatca-gives-critics-hope/

There is an industry who want this.. the people who would be the only real beneficiaries of FATCA: the so-called “FATCA Compliance Complex” (FCC) of tax lawyers, accountants, and software and technology firms, who hope to make a fortune selling compliance to FFIs.

and IRS will penalize these people for not filing their US tax returns. $10k a year.. People who did not know this account existed until 2011 .

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to riverbendviewgal (Original post)

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 04:35 PM

59. There’s no way anyone can put enough lipstick on this pig to make it kissable.

There are truly big tax cheats out there and they should be caught

BUT FATCA is not going to get them...
.

please see why.

lawyer James Jatras, a former US Diplomat and Senate staffer, who set up a high profile campaign to have the contentious legislation repealed.


http://www.iexpats.com/rolled-back-deadline-of-fatca-gives-critics-hope/


RepealFatca.com is a website dedicated to getting rid of the worst law most Americans have never heard of
http://www.repealfatca.com/
FATCA (the “Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act”) was passed in 2010. With the stated purpose of catching “fat cat” tax cheats who hide their money abroad, FATCA instead would have the effect of:

- violating Americans’ constitutional protections;
- overstepping the limits of Executive power at the expense of Congressional authority, especially the Senate’s advice and consent to the ratification of treaties;
- disregarding the mutual respect of sovereignty among nations;
- draining money from the federal treasury under the guise of replenishing it;
- punishing Americans who work abroad bringing business to the U.S.;
- setting up a global financial fishbowl, with personal financial information “shared” among governments worldwide;
- leading to higher taxes and, eventually, international taxation;
- imposing expensive regulatory mandates on foreign and U.S. business, with costs passed on to consumers;
- threatening American jobs and the American economy by scaring off foreign investment in the United States;
- violating trade agreements; and
- injuring America’s global competitiveness.

All this supposedly is justified by FATCA’s claim to “recover” lost taxes of less than $1 billion per year – enough to run the government for about two hours. (In fact, the way the U.S. Treasury plans to enforce FATCA, it would probably lose more money than it would take in!)

Tax evasion at home or abroad is a valid concern, but FATCA is the wrong way to address it. This is one law that needs to be stopped before it is implemented (starting in 2014) and then repealed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread