General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIn case you were curious, Peet's Coffee & Tea has gun sense.
Superior coffee, to boot.
CTyankee
(63,773 posts)It's superior coffee, too. They are obviously conscious of their better educated, socially conscious clientele. But even more than that, they are making COMMON SENSE! Jeez...
THANK YOU, PEET'S COFFEE & TEA!
hlthe2b
(101,730 posts)and the gunners that come to scream may as well move on. Given recent "accidental" shootings associated with "responsible good guy" gun owners, I'll take my chances with the bad guys, thank you very much.
I would gladly frequent restaurants, bars, coffee shops and stores that exclude guns and conversely avoid those who knowingly do not.
Like the idiot pastor open carrying an AR15 into an Alabama Walmart recently... As if I needed ANOTHER reason to avoid Walmarts.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)hlthe2b
(101,730 posts)enough
(13,237 posts)Peet's Coffee & Tea sold for nearly $1 billion, but not to Starbucks
July 23, 2012|By Tiffany Hsu
Peets Coffee & Tea Inc., the Bay Area-based cafe chain, is going private for $977.6 million but its not being sold to Starbucks, its giant Seattle rival. Instead, German conglomerate Joh. A. Benckiser will shell out $73.50 a share to buy the Emeryville company, paying a 29% premium on Fridays $57.16 closing price. Peets had just under 200 stores as of this spring.
Last spring, Peets and Starbucks were rumored to be in talks to combine in an effort to boost both brands presence in grocery stores. Peet's founder Alfred Peet knew the Starbucks founders and sold them coffee beans when they launched their business a few years after Peet's first opened.
But now, Peets will go to a company better known for its holdings in beauty and luxury. Benckiser owns a majority stake in Coty Inc., the maker of OPI nail polish and celebrity perfumes. Coty recently abandoned its attempts to buy beauty company Avon Products Inc. for $10.7 billion and said it instead plans to raise $700 million in an initial public offering.
Benckiser also owns Labelux, a luxury goods company with brands such as Jimmy Choo and Bally. The deal with Peets, which was unanimously approved by the coffee-makers board, is expected to close in about three months.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Cha
(295,929 posts)Good to know!
Thanks Robb, for your relentless information on gun awareness.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)otohara
(24,135 posts)like say the Koch Brothers paper products or Coke, McDonald's???
I boycott a lot of things and I am a lot healthier for it.
Fuck Starbucks and their hypocritical gun policy - guns allowed, bullets not, ciggies within 25 feet not.
Bunch of fat fucks traipsing around with their empty guns - it's hilarious.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)I spend my dollars where they provide the most value. That means I sometimes even shop at that ebil Wal-Mart, too.
I don't drink coffee, though, so if it makes you feel better, I suppose you could say I'm *effectively* boycotting starbucks (and peets, and seattle's best, and...)
otohara
(24,135 posts)Fuck that family of money hoarders and slave wages.
Hekate
(90,202 posts)Yavapai
(825 posts)I will continue to go to Starbucks.
Skittles
(152,967 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)bluestate10
(10,942 posts)non-official yahoos with guns around me while I am trying to enjoy a meal or snack.
spin
(17,493 posts)your chances of getting shot by a criminal or a person with severe mental problems is far higher than your chance of getting shot by a licensed civilian carrying a handgun.
But the chances as a customer of your getting shot in a restaurant are extremely slim even if there is a no-guns sign on the door. You're more likely to get attacked in the parking lot.
SunSeeker
(51,378 posts)spin
(17,493 posts)Understand that one of my favorite hobbies is target shooting handguns. If I got rid of my handguns, I would be like a golfer without clubs.
I'll choose Peets now. I remember when it was one little place in Berkeley. Very popular even back then.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It's all about the Benjamins.
I think whichever gun owner groups have decided to put corporate chains on the spot like this are going to regret it.
I think the plan is 'backfiring'.
No franchise really wants to have a scene similar to what happened in Livermore, California, back in January.
http://blog.sfgate.com/scavenger/2010/01/29/peets-and-cpk-tell-open-carry-customers-no-guns-allowed/
I don't patronize either chain if I can help it, there's usually a Mom and Pop java house around.
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)It is now illegal in the state of California to open carry handguns.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Fools walking into Starbucks and people calling 911 caused a diversion of police services to this nonsense.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/10/local/la-me-brown-guns-20111011
surrealAmerican
(11,340 posts)It's a reasonable policy for them, and for many other businesses.
wild bird
(421 posts)and not because of the whole guns thing, it's because I can make a better cup of coffee at home for a hell of lot cheaper.
Lucky Luciano
(11,242 posts)or do some work or people watch. It is nice to do so when the weather is nice.
wild bird
(421 posts)Invite friends over, fire up the ole BBQ, jump into the pool, have a few drinks or coffee, whatever is appropriate.
Much better in my opinion.
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)And what's happening at Starbucks today is the same thing
Skittles
(152,967 posts)what about the right of customers to be free of gun humping nut cases who are unable to drink a cup of coffee without being armed?
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Are following the la no such right exists. If I can't see it I don't xare... I prefer to live a life free of paranoias
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Sleep deprivation will do that to ya
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)doesn't always carry tone
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Sucks. I hate when I am texting my SO and cat tell if she is pissed, or just messing with me lol
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Sucks. I hate when I am texting my SO and cat tell if she is pissed, or just messing with me lol
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Ha ha
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)"Free of paranoia" certainly doesn't come to mind...
*Edit: I wasn't referring to you specifically. Just to clarify.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)In some parts of the city I pass through....smart.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Nit that I carry..its too much work.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Which I suppose isn't true in all cases.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Its true, still goes on in our big cities.... we have areas that even the cops like to avoid.
AllyCat
(16,039 posts)Went into a Starbucks in Janesville awhile back and couldn't figure out why there were all these pro-gun bumper stickers in the parking lot (including one with a graphic of looking through a sight with the words "this is my peace sign" . Next day I read here Gunbucks is the new favorite hangout for those who like to stroke their guns while having a cup of burnt joe from that dreadful establishment. I was with a bunch of little kids and couldn't get out of there fast enough.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)Are there any age limits?
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)And legal are two terms that come to mind
Tolerance is not a la carte
AllyCat
(16,039 posts)That is really too bad.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Don't really care for them personally
branford
(4,462 posts)Ironically, you've probably enjoyed many a meal or cup of coffee at any number of establishment with these "gun humping nut cases" without nary an incident or violent encounter, you just didn't realize it at the time.
Skittles
(152,967 posts)gun humpers here are as common as weeds
branford
(4,462 posts)Nevertheless, I have no objection to a private establishment limiting guns on their premises under most circumstances, such as with Pete's in the OP.
CTyankee
(63,773 posts)As a matter of fact, it is a common occurrence in CT. Funny, that. We just don't have a fear of that here where we have some semblance of sane gun safety laws...
How in the world did that happen?
Skittles
(152,967 posts)Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Skittles
(152,967 posts)Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Skittles
(152,967 posts)sure, cowards are free to be armed getting coffee but I am free to feel nauseated about them
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)As of Sept 23, 2012 you had 176,446 concealed carry permits in CT. Since then the number has gone up. You have shared public spaces with many of them and didn't realize it.
CTyankee
(63,773 posts)One of them was a volunteer of mine when I was on staff at a woman's clinic. We had been thru some loud, annoying picketing by antichoicers and she showed me the pistol she carried in her purse one day when we were sitting in my office. I told her to take her gun home and never bring it with her again to the clinic, if she wished to continue volunteering with us. She agreed to my condition. But I will say that my opinion of her going forward was different. This was only months after my niece was shot to death by her stepgrandfather down in Dallas and the tragedy in my family was indescribable.
wild bird
(421 posts)CTyankee
(63,773 posts)Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)And while I would presume you agree with the OP (as I do) what about the rights of the customers of said establisment that enjoy the rights of the constitution?
I guess they can both just go somewhere else. Yes?
oxymoron
(4,053 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)I'll thank you to keep your gun in it's holster if I am in a place of business and a hold up goes down. Very seldom are shots fired/people hurt in a hold up if everyone cooperates. We don't need you to start the shooting that would otherwise probably not happen. There is nothing in that cash register worth anyone getting killed over.
branford
(4,462 posts)Every self-defense situation is unique and must be separately evaluated. However, the use of a firearm in the commission of a felony, such as the robbery you cite, is prima facie evidence of the willingness to use lethal force against an innocent, and would justify a lethal response even in my VERY anti-gun home town of NYC.
As to Pete's policy, I both support the Second Amendment AND have no objection to the owner of a private establishment setting policy on their premises, so long as it does not infringe on other fundamental rights (e.g., refusal to serve someone because of race, etc.). Potential patrons can decide how they wish to react. I, personally, see such an obvious sign as an invitation to robbery or vandalism, but it certainly is not my decision.
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)but every cop I know agrees with me. If you pull out your gun and shoot first, make sure you're good enough to drop him with the first shot, and be prepared to take responsibility for every injury and death that happens from return fire.
Oh, and I hope the bad guy you pull your gun on doesn't have an accomplice you didn't see that drops you first.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)I am not responsible for the shots a criminal may fire.
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)That's how I see it. I'm sure you wont agree, but we will have to agree to disagree.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)If the situation is such that I am legally allowed to shoot, then I am legally responsible only for those rounds that I fire.
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)but good luck with the civil suits you may be faced with.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)If my shooting is legally justified, then I can't be sued. The criminal can be sued, but they usually don't have any money anyway.
Remember, I will only bring my gun into action if my own life, or my wife's, is in deadly peril. Otherwise, I will leave bad enough alone and not make it worse.
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)and you pull your gun and start shooting, and a robber's accomplice you didn't see shoots my wife, you're in the clear. Thanks for reminding me of yet another reason to not live in Texas.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)You can't hold me responsible for the illegal actions of someone else. Yes, you could sue, but the defense against such a suit is easy.
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)It would probably cost you thousands of dollars to defend yourself against such a suit.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Further, I have done extensive reading on the subject, by recognized authors. It may cost some money to defend against frivolous lawsuit, but the alternative would be to allow some thug to kill me. I hope you will understand if I choose to stay alive in such a situation. Remember, my gun will not come out unless my own life or my wife's is in danger. The person who is suing will be trying to claim that I should have allowed myself to be killed.
branford
(4,462 posts)Also, note that I said that every situation is unique and must be evaluated. Even with legal immunity, a responsible, lawfully armed citizen should consider the risk to innocent bystanders. I just happened to find your blanket advice to quietly comply with a violent criminal because an armed robber probably will not kill or seriously injure you to be far too neat and simple.
Ironically, I do not own a gun, and I would probably not shoot it if one came into my possession in your hypothetical because I would likely increase the chances of injury to myself or others without actually stopping the criminal. However, I luckily have never been in such potentially a life or death situation, and would understand if someone believed or behaved differently, particularly if they had more training or experience with firearms.
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)I will agree that I perhaps over-simplified the situation. I just like my odds better in a room where no bullets are flying than in one where they are. And yes, I have had guns pointed at me.
branford
(4,462 posts)I most certainly do not believe that owning and carrying a gun requires that it be drawn, no less fired, in every potentially risky or violent situation. We agree that Main Street, USA is not the OK Corral.
I also believe that if one chooses to own and carry a firearm, they should be very familiar with the relevant laws in their jurisdiction and be properly trained in the use of the weapon.
As with any right, it should be exercised with care and responsibility.
Similarly, I do not believe that the comparatively few who abuse such rights, justify curtailment of those rights by the otherwise law-abiding members of our society.
Blue Idaho
(4,988 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)But even the police will tell the person being robbed to cooperate with the robber, and have a much better chance of living to talk about it. I'll take being a compliant live victim over being a dead hero anyday.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)hell, put the money in a bag if they want it- just give them the money.
branford
(4,462 posts)I'm not even saying that you definitely should have a gun or that the proper response is always to shoot at an armed assailant. I'm objecting to the poster's apparent belief that quiet compliance is always the best policy.
Even if compliance was generally the safest route, every situation must be evaluated on the merits and as understood by the individual at the time and place their life is threatened. Owning and carrying a firearm simply provides additional options in a life and death scenario.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)the one thing we pounded into peoples' heads- don't be a hero. Open the register and give them all the money. The loss of a couple hundred dollars is not worth the loss of a person.
branford
(4,462 posts)Particularly since I value the lives of the clerk and the customer far more than the armed assailant.
If you would be kind enough to read my follow-up posts, my objection was to the blanket advice that compliance is always the better option. I readily conceded that may be generally true, and the option that I would personally employ, but every situation is different.
I most certainly do not object to legally carrying a firearm for self-defense purposes, but I do not believe that it is always the most prudent or safest path to draw, no less fire, the weapon in every potentially risky or violent encounter.
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)All I meant was that odds are things have a better chance of going well if nobody starts shooting. But I can agree that every situation is different and must be evaluated. By the way, I believe in the right to carry concealed. I will not discuss whether I do or not on a public forum, but I'll just say permits are not hard to get where I live. Thank you for a sensible discussion.
branford
(4,462 posts)bluestate10
(10,942 posts)get the money and leave. If you run into a robber that wants guns play I suggest you not have your gun because you would have run into a killer who will likely end up killing you if you get in his or her way.
branford
(4,462 posts)We are in far less disagreement than you appear to imply.
I simply believe that if one chooses to legally carry a gun, it provides them with another option in a violent encounter. All options and repercussions should be considered when faced with death or serious bodily injury. I could care less if an establishment loses money in a robbery, the potential loss of life of the clerk or innocent patrons, no less of me or my loved ones, is another matter entirely.
Although I do not mean to be flippant, I do have question concerning you comment: How does one determine in the heat of the moment if you are being threatened only by an "average" robber? And is firearm use acceptable when the robber is anything but average (high on drugs, etc.)?
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)If you re-read my post #16, I never used the word always. I said in most cases, no one gets hurt in a robbery where everyone complies. No two situations are ever the same, and you can never say always. That's why I used word like seldom and probably.
branford
(4,462 posts)Unfortunately, when talking about guns on DU, people, obviously including me, are so used to the typical comments and rants that we often seem to read what we expect to see, not what the writer actually states or intends.
Unfortunately, many of the "gun humper" comments and other posts with "colorful" language are continuing the tradition of not-so civil discourse about firearms on DU. It's a pity.
I bet some of those who made comments about me missed the fact that I have no substantive objections to Pete's policy on guns on their private premises.
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)where my comments in this thread would have resulted in death threats in my PM box by now.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)I have a CHL and carry rountinely. My gun is to defend myself, not some store's cash register which is almost certainly insured anyway. I don't want to get into a gunfight to save an insurance company some money. If my gun comes out it will be because I have decided that my own life (or that of my wife) is in deadly peril. If the store is getting robbed, I will take careful observations (Yes, I have had training for that.) and be a good witness.
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)Well stated and I agree totally.
spin
(17,493 posts)It is quite possible that shooting at a robber may escalate the situation and more people might end up injured or dead than if the person with the concealed weapon merely observed and tried to remember details about the robber or robbers.
Unfortunately there are times when the robbery turns violent and clerks and customers get shot by the robbers.
This happened within walking distance of where I lived in Tampa.
In trial, a portrait of murder
By COLLEEN JENKINS
Published May 16, 2007
A witness provides a chilling image of the Subway killing of 2004.
A hooded man hovered behind Subway employee Danielle Miller. He pointed a gun, yelling for her to open the cash register. Freaked out, 22-year-old Miller fumbled with the touch screen.
She worked at the Town 'N Country sandwich shop to fund her education at the International Academy of Design & Technology. Just 26 seconds earlier, she had served her final customer his sandwich.
Now she couldn't open the register.
Girl, you're too slow, " the gunman said, according to a witness. "You gots to die."
He shot Miller three times. She fell to the floor.
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/16/Hillsborough/In_trial__a_portrait_.shtml
Once before another robbery ended tragically at a gas station connivance store within also walking distance of my home. In this incident the female clerk gave the robbers the money but they shot her to death as they were leaving the store.
Several years after the incident I pulled into this same station to fuel up my car and I didn't think anything of the police car by the entrance. When I tried to pump my gas, the pump would not function. A police officer appeared at the door of the store and yelled at me that a robbery had just happened and the pumps had been turned off.
The next day I stopped at the station and asked the clerk what had went down. He said, "Some kid walked in and pointed a gun at me. I gave him the money in the register and he left. No big deal."
Had I been inside the store a few minutes before I might have been in the middle of a bad situation. I would have calmly observed but if I had sensed that things were about to go seriously downhill or if the robber had shot the clerk, I would have been willing to use the snub nosed .38 revolver in my pocket to attempt to stop the robber.
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)I think scenario #2 is what happens in most robberies.
spin
(17,493 posts)I was headed to work on the graveyard shift and I stopped at a Walgreens liquor store in Town 'N Country in Tampa. I needed some cigars to enjoy on break time at work and because of theft, Walgreens had decided to move all their tobacco products to the attached liquor store.
I entered the store and there were only two young male customers and the clerk inside. Something set off my situational awareness about the two customers. One was walking up to the counter and the other was acting erratic and nervous and was rapidly pacing up and down the aisles.
I picked up a pack of cigars and approached the counter. The guy who was checking out offered me the opportunity to go first. I politely declined and stepped back by a row of counters placing my hand in my pocket on my snub nosed revolver. The guy at the counter then reached in his pocket and announced that he must have left his wallet in his car. He left his purchases on the counter and exited the store to retrieve it. Several minutes later he returned and looked at me appearing slightly frustrated. I smiled.
The clerk rang up his purchases and both guys left the store. I felt the clerk looked slightly relieved.
I stayed in the store for another ten minutes bullshitting with the clerk who I had often talked to before. Consequently I was late for work but since I was the shift supervisor I didn't get any heat.
Now perhaps my imagination was in overdrive that night. If so that is the only time that I have ever had the hairs on the back of my neck stand up since I have started to regularly carry a handgun for over fifteen years.
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)The good thing is you were aware of your surroundings, kept your head and evaluated the situation before taking any action you may regret later. That was the proper thing to do. Glad it turned out well.
spin
(17,493 posts)But fortunately all turned out well.
It did cause me to consider exactly what I should have done if the guy at the counter had whipped out a gun and pointed it at the clerk.
Since the guy at the counter appeared rational and not drunk or high, I feel my best approach would have been to merely observe. Of course I have taken some criticism from those who knew I carried on a regular basis but the bottom line is all is well that ends well. The highest probability is the clerk would have complied and the robbers would have left.
If the robber would have shot the clerk, I would have had good reason to fear for my life as I was a witness and I could have been next. Hopefully I would have been able to shoot my handgun accurately enough to stop his attack.
But if the clerk would have been shot, I would have to live with the fact that I might have been able to intervene before he did so. Still even if I shot the robber afterward, I would have to live with that fact too. Often when a cop shoots another person and it is entirely justified, he has to seek professional counseling. Shooting another person is a traumatic,life changing event. I hope and pray that I never find myself in such a situation. I currently sleep well at night with good dreams and not nightmares.
One factor that might have made a difference if the guy at the counter was actually planning to rob the clerk was that I was wearing a photographer's vest. I always wore one to work and it was loaded with tools and supplies to help my crew do their job and make it through the long nights on the 3rd shift. Not only did the vest have flashlights and tools but it was also a medicine cabinet.
But a photographer's vest without a camera is also a dead giveaway that you are packing heat in the hot months in Florida. The guy at the counter might have noticed this and also the fact that I my hand was in my pocket and moved back toward cover if I needed it.
Bazinga
(331 posts)And for that I thank you.
I would only add that an armed person still has the option to comply, but an unarmed person does not have the option of armed self-defense should compliance fail.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)I suport their right to make their own decision, even while I think the decision is stupid.
They don't have any stores in Texas so it doesn't effect me.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Squinch
(50,774 posts)the gun has to be unloaded and holstered, and the ammunition has to be carried separately from the gun.
So what advantage is there to those who insist on carrying big guns where everyone can see them other than to intimidate other people? Why not just open carry two-by-fours which are more readily used for self protection?
Truly, these Rambo's who need a gun to go to Starbucks are just seeming more and more silly.
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)California has since made it illegal to open carry handguns period. What you posted was correct before the new law was passed. The ammunition magazine could be carried on the belt right next to the holster. A trained person could have the gun loaded within seconds. Also, in counties with a population less than 200,000, such as the one where I live, the gun was allowed to be loaded.
Squinch
(50,774 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)but I have not yet heard of them doing so. It would be counter productive to their cause, because those guns would also then be banned, given the makeup of our state legislature and governor.
petronius
(26,581 posts)Exceptions exist for for both long guns and hand guns, of course (obviously you can still hunt and engage in other shooting sports at appropriate places, security guards can get open-carry permits, people can do what they want on private property, movie sets and other entertainments can still operate, etc), but general open-carry is effectively non-existent in CA...
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)I had not heard that.
nolabear
(41,915 posts)Very good dark roasts. I've always found Starbucks to be sour. But that's me.
Aristus
(66,099 posts)Since Starbuck's bowed to the gun-humpers back in 2006 or 7, I've spent my coffee money at locally-pwned small business establishments.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)I may be a rube, but I drink black coffee only and absolutely love Dunkin Donuts coffee ... I would definitely support a coffee house chain with a stated "no guns" policy!
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)I certainly don't want my kids near idiot gunners carrying guns around the streets with no formal LEO training.
More businesses should give us the choice of avoiding these assholes.
Aristus
(66,099 posts)SunSeeker
(51,378 posts)moondust
(19,917 posts)And the coffee there isn't too bad either.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)appleannie1
(5,044 posts)carry me and I will buy what I am looking for somewhere else. So if stores want my money, they will not allow guns in their store.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)I certainly don't subscribe to the "MORE GUNS EVERYWHERE" philosophy of some folks out there.
appleannie1
(5,044 posts)I am not going to stick around to find out.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)carrying concealed, and never known it.
Response to Robb (Original post)
PorridgeGun This message was self-deleted by its author.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)If they don't, how do they know?
Robb
(39,665 posts)mwrguy
(3,245 posts)Gun nuts are not known for obeying the law or the wishes of property owners.