So Its Now Pretty Obvious Snowden Gave the Names of US and British Agents to China and Russia

[arely staircase]

Last edited Sat Aug 31, 2013, 11:13 AM - Edit history (1)

Whether knowingly or through gross negligence, the fact that his spokesman has his boyfriend travelling through international airports with that info (and its encryption password written on a piece of paper ) paints a pretty clear picture of the level of security Snowden and company have maintained on their world wide espionage tour. It is also now clear that Greenwald lied about the quantity and nature of the data he possesses. This isn't about any so-called domestic spying. This is about the identity of US and UK forward deployed intelligence operatives and puts Mr. Snowden and Mr. Greenwald and his partner in a completely category. The whistleblower bullshit just went out the window. They are probably about to be in some deep shit.


UK government says Greenwald partner practiced terrible security

In a written statement to a British court Friday, Oliver Robbins, deputy national security adviser in the Cabinet Office, said that the the UK government had managed to access some of the documents Miranda had been carrying in encrypted form.

While most of the files remained encrypted, it was possible to access a portion of files on the hard drive because a piece of paper containing basic instructions for accessing some of the data that included a password for decrypting one of the files was among Miranda’s things.

Robbins said assessments by GCHQ had shown that the number of documents on the hard drive seized from Miranda was consistent with the number that Snowden would have had access to when working at the NSA and that he “indiscriminately appropriated material in bulk”, and that at least some of that was being couriered by Miranda.

Robbins “believes the data may have already been obtained by one or more of the countries through which Snowden has passed since he fled the US,” including China and Russia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/30/uk-government-says-greenwald-partner-practiced-terrible-security/


http://www.businessinsider.com/david-miranda-glenn-greenwald-documents-national-security-2013-8

[kelliekat44]

1. As they should be. nt

[Adrahil]

31. Errr..... What? You advocate giving up our agents to our adversaries?

[arely staircase]

35. I think the poster menat they should be "in deep shit." nt

[Rockyj]

37. How do you know its not PLANTED?

To stop REAL journalism?

[arely staircase]

45. has greenwald said it was? nt

[Adrahil]

53. Any evidence of that? nt

[randome]

54. Greenwald's outrage is planted to...to...now I'm so confused!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[BlueToTheBone]

63. very funny. n/t

[treestar]

91. Come to think of it, you may be right!

Maybe it's a joke.

[BlueToTheBone]

104. I don't know about the op being funny

but the response that this is planted news to help GlennSnow is.

[treestar]

90. You know you're in bad shape when your default and assumed position is

CT category stuff.

Too many movies.

[Turbineguy]

2. That will be

something of a denoument for their fan club.

[madokie]

3. All I know is I sure am glad I'm not them

snowbot or greenwad

[Downwinder]

4. Creative Speculation

[arely staircase]

5. simple inferencing nt

[MNBrewer]

6. simple something

[KittyWampus]

7. Why didn't Assange ever release the files he got on Russia?

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. Wild-ass guessing with no basis at all

I'm only posting to let you know why you won't get many replies; your OP is not worth replying to, for most people. It's fiction.

[arely staircase]

20. well, no basis other than all the top secret documents with the encryption code written on paper

I'm pretty sure the Russians and Chinese - and my twelve year old niece - are just as capable of figuring that one out as the Brits are.

[muriel_volestrangler]

143. Miranda did not go to Russia or China - this all your fantasy (nt)

[arely staircase]

155. no but the guy he got the stuff from damn sure did. nt

[TM99]

206. So the Brits

have a piece of paper with Snowden's handwriting that shows that he, and not Miranda, followed bad security protocols?

[arely staircase]

207. Miranda claims he had no idea what he was carrying. If he is telling the truth

he wasn't involved in any security protocols.

[TM99]

209. There is no way in hell that

Miranda had a handwritten note by Snowden with the 'password' for the encrypted files.

[arely staircase]

210. He claimed he didn't know what he was carrying and yet he had the "password"

how is that?

[TM99]

211. There is so much speculation in that article as it is.

It is not a note from Snowden. The kid is smart enough to have accessed the date, retrieved the date, and left such a minimal to non-existent footprint (i.e. the NSA is still not exactly sure what he accessed and what he didn't), he did not give Miranda through Greenwald a handwritten note with a freaking password for the encrypted files.

The note held one password to one encrypted file. Which one? What was on it? Was it definitively from Snowden?

Again, speculation is all that is really given in this article.

[Mojorabbit]

230. No, the op is making it up as he goes. nt

[cantbeserious]

26. CIA Runs Agents - NSA Does Signals Intelligence - Why Would Agent Names Be Part Of NSA Files?

eom

[RC]

62. Why indeed? Especially when most of the NSA "intel" is private Communions between people just living

their lives.

Nothing to do with anything governments would or should be interested in. Can anyone site any case where the NSA stopped a terrorist that wasn't part of a FBI sting? No? How about when some politician suddenly changed his positions 180° from a life long commitment?

[cantbeserious]

68. Yes - Signals Intelligence (SIGINT) And Human Intelligence (HUMINT) Are Quite Different Matters

eom

[sweetloukillbot]

191. Because there is cross-pollination?

Snowden himself was in the CIA before working for the NSA. Why is it unreasonable to think there may be a file with names?

[cantbeserious]

199. Because Of The Division Of Responsibility Be The Tow Intelligence Agencies

eom

[sweetloukillbot]

212. So the NSA doesn't know what the CIA is doing. OK gotcha.

But wasn't there a big stink about 12 years ago that led to more communication between the organizations? I think there was some big terrorist attack or something. But I'm sure you know EVERYTHING about how the CIA and NSA communicate between each other and share information. You're posting on the Internet.

[cantbeserious]

217. InterAgency Rivalry Is Still InterAgency Rivalry

eom

[avaistheone1]

131. According to DU rules shouldn't this kind of thread be in Conspiracy Theories.

[arely staircase]

135. since it is being reported today by the washington post, cnn and business insider

im gonna guess it is just fine where it is.

[avaistheone1]

138. The media has a vested interest in spinning conspiracy theories.

At the end of the day this is sill the stuff of conspiracy theories.

[arely staircase]

139. oh ok then I guess we should post all stories from major media outlets

in the CT group. Makes perfect sense. Should we do that with the stories about phone data collection as well? Since they are after all being reported in the same places this story is.

[Bonobo]

8. "Boyfriend"

Gotcha.

[MNBrewer]

11. They do tend to give themselves away, don't they?

when they use terms like "boyfriend" or "sexual preference", or "gay lifestyle"....

[rbixby]

13. Well, how should Greenwald's partner be referenced?

If it was his girlfriend, would you still have the same righteous indignation?

[arely staircase]

18. no shit.

it was his boyfriend.

[randome]

19. No, no, he was a journalist because...Greenwald said so.

Case closed!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[arely staircase]

24. I'm still trying to wrap my head around "boyfriend" being a homophobic slur

having one myself. I guess we have been bashing one another these past few years.

[Whisp]

29. Greenwald is married to Miranda, so 'boyfriend' is now a homophobic slur

if you didn't know. And by gawds, we should all know the marital status of anyone in the news.

Apparently.

[arely staircase]

32. Had I known they were married I would have called him his husband.

But as my invitation to the wedding must have been lost in the mail, I wasn't aware.

[treestar]

93. their having to resort to this sort of thing

shows the flimsiness of their argument. I just call him "Miranda" and a player in the whole thing. His relationships are irrelevant.

[sweetloukillbot]

189. Greenwald refers to him as partner, as do most stories

I was confused for a while too - I thought I read a few years ago that he had become an ex-pat to marry Miranda.

[otohara]

190. The detention of my partner, David Miranda

there's a reason why some of us didn't know they were married.

Glenn Greenwald: detaining my partner was a failed attempt at intimidation

The detention of my partner, David Miranda, by UK authorities will have the opposite effect of the one intended

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/18/david-miranda-detained-uk-nsa

[MADem]

174. I don't think that is accurate.

They are in a registered "domestic partnership"--Greenwald has a permanent visa (like a Green Card) because of this, issued by Brazil, but they aren't married, I don't think.

I'll take a link and be happy to be corrected if I am wrong, FWIW, but I don't think I am.

I think they may sometimes revert to the shorthand terms of husband/spouse, but I don't think they've taken that last step, yet anyway.

[Whisp]

178. okay, I'm not sure where I heard they were

but now I'm going to have to be Real Careful how I say that.

I think Miranda is the best and safest.

[MADem]

181. They are in a long-term relationship, that much we know.

Close to ten years, I believe.

[GeorgeGist]

236. Spouse.

[arely staircase]

21. well I guess I will have to stop calling mine that

[Adrahil]

36. Wtf?

One of my best friends is gay. Know what he calls his partner? His boyfriend.

[MNBrewer]

41. One of my best friends is gay.

uh huh...

[arely staircase]

48. so me and mine should stop calling each other that? seriously we would both like to know what you

want us to call each other. maybe we will call each other "journalists"

[randome]

65. LOL!

Both of you keep thumb drives on your persons and you're good!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[arely staircase]

70. we have our password memorized

it is "password"

[Whisp]

85. hee hee. n/t

[pkdu]

182. DUZY!.....for " journalists "...brilliant . Nt

[Bluenorthwest]

115. One of my best friends is straight and you know what? He first introduced her as 'my date' and

later as 'my girlfriend' and then 'my fiancé ' and then 'my wife'. Each stage of their relationship reflected in the language they and others used to describe it. It hardly seems like rocket science....

[Liberal Veteran]

224. Which implies it is much easier to know the proper term when one is more close to the parties.

Given that our marriage is something fairly new to me despite 22 years together, I still refer him as "spouse", "partner", "husband", "boyfriend", "other half", and "lover" at various times to this date.

It may not seem like rocket science, but sometimes the right word just doesn't cement itself.

[JI7]

243. and i know straight and gay people who refer to people they have been with more than 5 years as

boyfriend or girlfriend.

[arely staircase]

17. uh, he is in fact thus. nt

[pnwmom]

154. Unfortunately, many of the mainstream media accounts use that term.

The WA Post in this article calls Miranda his partner, not his husband. And I've seen Greenwald repeatedly refer to him as a partner. So I'm not surprised many here don't know they're married; and not every gay person considers the word "boyfriend" to be a slur.

[arely staircase]

157. I assumed they weren't for that very reason. nt

[randome]

9. I'm still not convinced those were Snowden's documents.

Think about it. This group of Libertarian 'soldiers' is clearly operating across the globe. Snowden may not have been the only person they 'turned'.

Why would NSA servers be chock full of British documents?

Greenwald, Poitras, Snowden, Wikileaks...put it all together and you come up with an international espionage team.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[joshcryer]

16. names are probably secret

but with the proper intel could be inferred

access seems to be a shared internal wiki

[Whisp]

34. But why would they be so sloppy?

That has got me really confused. It looks like they Want to be found out for the spy ring they are.

Is it that Greenwald is a 'journalist' (ahem) and they are testing the limits and using that as cover and safety and can do anything then cry freedom of the press?

There are people here that think Obama is after every journalist to jail them all so if GG gets his sorry ass questioned by 'authorities' the screaming from the deluded fan base would indeed be loud...

[arely staircase]

39. Exciting chapter and publicity for his book. nt

[Whisp]

77. you know, it could be as simple as that.

but Assange and the Russian Spy and all else involved aren't in this for Greenwald and his book.

Greenwald got suckered in, just because of his kind of used car salesman personality. They knew he'd get suckered in easy.

Do they let you write books in prison?

[randome]

52. I don't think they are smart enough to do feints.

If this is all some mutant revival of Wikileaks after its presumed burial, they are operating in a small group and without much in the way of resources.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Adrahil]

38. The US and the UK share lots of intel

Thats why they would have Brit documents.

[randome]

42. But didn't Snowden give everything to Greenwald earlier?

So why involve Miranda unless these documents were newer ones obtained by some other means?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Whisp]

94. good question! n/t

[PSPS]

12. Is this another #5/#13 weekend?

Worshiper/Apologist Hit Parade:

1. This is nothing new
2. I have nothing to hide
3. What are you, a freeper?
4. But Obama is better than Christie/Romney/Bush/Hitler
5. Greenwald/Flaherty/Gillum/Apuzzo/Braun is a hack
6. We have red light cameras, so this is no big deal
7. Corporations have my data anyway
8. At least Obama is trying
9. This is just the media trying to take Obama down
10. It's a misunderstanding/you are confused
11. You're a racist
12. Nobody cares about this anyway / "unfounded fears"
13. I don't like Snowden, therefore we must disregard all of this
14. Other countries do it

[randome]

14. 1. "I am not here to hide from justice."

2. The NSA is watching our thoughts form as we type.
3. Snowden could spy on the President if he wanted to.
4. PRISM shows that the NSA is downloading the Internet on a daily basis.
5. Snowden says he "saw things".
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[jsr]

22. 15. They're not giving Obama the opportunity to TRULY excel

in missile strikes, drone killings, warrantless wiretapping, NSA surveillance, Trans-Pacific Partnership, tax cuts for the rich, privatizing public education, cutting Medicare/Social Security, etc.

[arely staircase]

203. he ended warrantless wiretapping, raised taxes on the rich ended torture and did not cut

Social Security and Medicare.

But feel free just to make shit up.

[treestar]

97. 14 arguments you can't refute

and thus are tired of seeing?

And why are you using insults? Again because you can do nothing with the material of the debate?

[reformist2]

15. Probably, pretty obvious, likely... or maybe just making stuff up.

[AgingAmerican]

129. I choose door number four

nt

[madrchsod]

23. meanwhile greenwald is writing his book....

well maybe he`ll be a good chap and give the proceeds to snowden

[cantbeserious]

25. Speculation At Best - CIA Runs Agents - Not NSA - All Part Of Continuing Character Assassination Efforts

eom

[randome]

30. These were British documents detailing British agents.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[cantbeserious]

33. Snowden TooK NSA Files - Why Would British Agents Be Part Of Signal Intelligence Files

eom

[randome]

40. It's my contention that this Libertarian 'Army' does a lot more spying than we thought.

Snowden likely isn't the only gullible man they 'turned'. Did these documents come from Snowden or somewhere else?

If Snowden gave everything he had to Greenwald earlier, what was the point of ferrying copies of the documents to him again?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[cantbeserious]

43. Interesting Speculation - AFAIK The Files Related To Signals Intelligence Not Covert Spy Networks

eom

[JDPriestly]

73. Journalists investigate stories.

Greenwald is a journalist. Probably a much better educated and prepared journalist than about 98% of American journalists. The readers on Fox News consider themselves to be journalists and indeed are technically speaking journalists. But Greenwald fits the definition of journalist far better than they do.

Definition of JOURNALIST
1 a : a person engaged in journalism; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium
b : a writer who aims at a mass audience

2 : a person who keeps a journal
See journalist defined for kids »

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/journalist

and Press:

noun

1a device for applying pressure to something in order to flatten or shape it or to extract juice or oil:a flower press a wine press
. . . .
2a printing press.
[often in names] a business that prints or publishes books:the Clarendon Press

3 (the press) [treated as singular or plural] newspapers or journalists viewed collectively:the incident was not reported in the press [as modifier]:press coverage of the trial
[mass noun] coverage in newspapers and magazines:there’s no point in demonstrating if you don’t get any press [in singular]:the government has had a bad press for years

4an act of pressing something:the system summons medical help at the press of a button these clothes could do with a press
. . . .
more

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/press

[randome]

79. Greenwald is smart enough, I agree.

But he injects too much of himself into his stories. He wants badly to be 'right' when the best journalists, IMO, only want to be 'correct' and let readers make their own interpretations.

There is a difference.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

144. So you theorize that there is a Libertarian Army conspiring to spy on somebody?

Now you do have a good point here: "If Snowden gave everything he had to Greenwald earlier, what was the point of ferrying copies of the documents to him again? "

Seem incredulous that Greenwald's partner would hand carry this "data" thru an airport. How convenient for the authorities. And he had the encryption code written on a piece of paper so the authorities could verify what the encrypted data is. I guess for those looking to blindly believe the authorities, this will make their life easier. Snowden/Greenwald, bad, the spy agencies good.

Do you have any evidence of this "Libertarian Army" and what they are out to do? Sounds like CT to me.

[randome]

151. It's a theory. A guess. The fact that Wikileaks rushed to Snowden's defense 'proves' nothing.

But is suggestive of much, IMO.

So if Miranda's documents were not 'real', why the outrage by Greenwald? Maybe it's all fake? I'm certainly not saying the NSA are always the good guys.

But Greenwald is a Libertarian. Snowden has expressed support for the Libertarian 'cause'. Wikileaks is, by its previous actions and intent, firmly in the Libertarian camp.

All these entities working together is suggestive.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[neverforget]

152. Libertarian army?

Oh God make it stop!

[randome]

156. You'll notice that 'army' is quoted, which is grammatical shorthand for 'so-called'.

Greenwald is Libertarian. Snowden is Libertarian. Wikileaks is Libertarian. I'm not sure if Poitras has professed as much. But does this not suggest something?

This 'army' is nothing but a group of would-be 'superheroes' who think they can change the world by stealing stuff. As I said, I'm guessing they have other 'irons in the fire' than Snowden.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

165. Shouldnt discussions of a mystic Libertarian Army and their conspiracy be relegated to

CS?

[randome]

172. The only thing 'mystic' about this group is Snowden's claims of omniscience.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

175. So you claim there really is a "Libertarian Army"? nm

[randome]

202. Not an army. An 'army'!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[SidDithers]

214. Don't Hosts only deal with the Original Post in a thread?...

Are you suggesting that now Hosts should be considering the replies in a thread too?

Sid

[rhett o rick]

216. Are you asking or telling? I didnt even mention "hosts". I was simply trying to

point out that those that pretend to be hard and fast against CT are really only hard and fast against CT that doesnt agree with their world view. Seems to me they are using CT as an excuse to lock threads that they dont like.

[arely staircase]

44. dunno

but that is what he had. I suppose there could be all sorts of reasons for the NSA to know who British agents are as they are intercepting and sifting through foreign signals. Say the are reading the e-mail of Ahmed the courier and it is of value to know when he is communicating with an undercover MI5 agent pretending to be an AQ member as opposed to a real one.

[cantbeserious]

46. Again Speculation - Signals Intelligence Information And Spy Networks And Agent Name Are Not The Same

eom

[arely staircase]

50. so then the phone data collection isn't spying, since it is being done by the NSA? nt

[Warren Stupidity]

66. That is not even an attempt at an honest argument.

[arely staircase]

72. i know I am calling bullshit on the poster's claim the NSA isn't a spy organization nt

[cantbeserious]

78. I Never Stated That The NSA Does Not "Spy" - However, The NSA Does Not "Run" Agent Networks

eom

[Warren Stupidity]

113. The dishonest responder is conflating

the verb spy with the noun spy to make a ridiculous point. Obviously the dishonest responder thinks we are all easily fooled idiots.

[cantbeserious]

71. Signals Intelligence (SIGINT) and Human Intelligence (HUMINT) Are Quite Different Parts Of "Spying"

Both are treated as separate specialties within the intelligence communities.

That is why the CIA is responsible for HUMINT and the NSA is responsible for SIGINT.

[arely staircase]

75. I am well aware of that.

But they work very closely together - one doing the traditional cloak and dagger stuff and the other intercepting signals. you were implying that the NSA (being signals) would have no access to or need for the knowing who is and who is not a spy.

[cantbeserious]

76. Yes - NSA Does Not "Run" Agent Networks - The CIA "Runs" Agent Networks

eom

[rhett o rick]

121. I missed that. Can you provide a link? nm

[randome]

132. The link in the OP refers to them as "highly classified UK intelligence documents."

I suppose that doesn't prove they came from the U.K. but since Snowden said he gave everything to Greenwald earlier, why would Miranda be trying to smuggle more documents to him?

My guess is that Greenwald, Poitras, Wikileaks, etc. have more than one spying operation going on. This is a Libertarian 'army' that wants to change the world to their advantage.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[KittyWampus]

74. Snowden originally worked for the CIA. Maybe he ultimately is part of the CIA/NSA feud over funding.

[randome]

80. So who gets to do the actual blackmailing?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Democracyinkind]

27. Further evidence that there's only one kind of conspiracy theory allowed in GD.

[Bonobo]

47. +1. Ain't THAT the stone cold truth. nt

[SidDithers]

28. DU rec...nt

Sid

[TwilightGardener]

49. Upsetting. Fucking idiots.

[FarCenter]

51. Snowden worked for the CIA in Geneva and elsewhere. His collection probably goes back

to when he worked for them.


And NSA and CIA work together. e.g. if a black bag job is needed to plant a bug or to physically access a computer, it is probably the CIA who sends the agent.

[JDPriestly]

55. "Obvious?" How do you know that? You don't. You are guessing and that theory fits

in your overall view of the situation. You may be right, but you may be wrong.

It isn't "obvious." We don't yet know what was in Miranda's electronic equipment. We don't know who has seen what was on Snowden's computers, etc. We don't know what the Chinese and Russians already knew before Snowden. (I think it is obvious that they weren't all that excited about learning whatever it was he showed them, so it seems obvious to me that the Chinese and Russians already know who our agents are.)

We are supposed to be fighting terrorism and cooperating with nations around the world. Isn't that the current meme?

[arely staircase]

114. for the hundredth time

http://www.businessinsider.com/david-miranda-glenn-greenwald-documents-national-security-2013-8

[JDPriestly]

158. Those claims were made in legal arguments requesting the permission of the court to review

the documents, weren't they? Those are reasonable guesses but not reliable information.

[arely staircase]

167. they have indeed asked (and I believe received) permission from the court to continue to analyze the

documents - which I assume means decrypting the rest and reading them. however, they had already decrypted some of it because Miranda had the decryption key for some of it with him. among what was decrypted was ""personal information that would allow British intelligence staff to be identified," including overseas."

what is very telling is that Greenwald/Miranda et al have not denied this. At first they claimed there was no top secret stuff on Miranda's computers then when the British found the code and decrypted the "personal information that would allow British intelligence staff to be identified," Greenwald went into a very unGreenwald like STFU mode.

[dotymed]

56. Your "facts" are

totally fucked up.
Just a precursory reading shows that you even got your "talking points" all screwed up.

[arely staircase]

59. well I am a computer algorithm persona within a giant NSA mainframe computer

so I don't always pass the turing test.

[dotymed]

82. Very telling......eom

[arely staircase]

87. This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.

I know that you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.

[HangOnKids]

233. With enough time to write 33 posts a day

Every day. Gee how fun that must be.

[arely staircase]

239. counting other DUrs posts

now that is a hobby

[chuckstevens]

57. Valerie Plame

Remember how virtually all of us agreed that the outing of Valerie Plame by the Bush cabal was an act of treason? Why is Snowden any better if, in fact, he did give up our intelligence agents? This is UNACCEPTABLE!

[Whisp]

102. That is true, and very disturbing, isn't it?

Just goes to show you what people will do to protect their own wrong headedness. Snowden was a Hero within an hour of the breaking news - he had the tights and the cape and a bag of chips! He was going to save the world from domestic spying.

Now that the curtain is lifting on who he actually is and what kind of low life, the supporters feel they have to stick to the Hero plot or lose face, or something.

There is nothing wrong in being wrong. This is how we learn - if we were right all our lives about everything you don't grow and learn. This is what makes humans stupid to the point of destroying ourselves. Ego.

[HangOnKids]

235. Great

Are you learning from your 6 hidden post? I hope so because your message is very uplifting!

[arely staircase]

241. they have called me homophobic

I guess if I were Black they would call me a white supremacist.

[Bluenorthwest]

111. We knew about that because Joe and Valerie told us. See the difference?

There was no ' if, in fact,he did' in that scenario. Big difference between direct testimony and theories spun by internet posters, don't you think? I sure do.

[muriel_volestrangler]

245. Because no-one in the real world has said he did 'give up' any intelligence agents

The UK government's lawyer is guessing that among the still-encrypted material is information that could identify agents:

The government has been forced to assume that copies of the information held by Mr Snowden, who worked for the US National Security Agency, are now in the hands of foreign governments after his travel to Moscow via Hong Kong, Mr Robbins said.

Disclosure of the material could put the lives of British intelligence agents or their families at risk, the court heard, and the general public could also be endangered if details about intelligence operations or methods fell into the wrong hands.

Another statement by a senior officer from Scotland Yard’s Counter Terrorism Command, SO15, disclosed police have so far only reconstructed 75 of the 58,000 classified documents which Mr Miranda was carrying.

In her statement to the court Detective Superintendent Caroline Goode said the encrypted files were “extremely difficult to access”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10276460/David-Miranda-was-carrying-password-for-secret-files-on-piece-of-paper.html

This idea that one written password has unlocked all the files Miranda was carrying is a fantasy. And 'classified documents' does not mean 'details of agents'; it was classified that the USA was spying on its own citizens, for instance, or that the UK was spying on the Europe-US internet traffic.

[hueymahl]

58. I really hate to contribute to these flame bait/character assassination posts, but

What exactly is your source for this nugget of information? Did I miss something?


And I am really asking just to see whether you are completely full of shit or not. Regardless of the answer, Snowden and Greenwald as persons are completely irrelevant to the core story, how much the government is violating the constitution. If they did not exist and this information anonymously appeared on the internet, NOTHING WOULD CHANGE about what the core story is, despite multiple persons attempting to change the topic.

[arely staircase]

69. ok

http://www.businessinsider.com/david-miranda-glenn-greenwald-documents-national-security-2013-8

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/30/uk-government-says-greenwald-partner-practiced-terrible-security/

[TheBlackAdder]

130. The UK Govt. is judging security? The same UK Govt. that allowed all their shit to get stolen? n/t

[arely staircase]

134. so, uh

they can't be believed when they say their shit was stolen because their shit was stolen?

gotcha

[TheBlackAdder]

136. You've completely missed the point.

What's with this gotcha stuff?

[arely staircase]

225. no, the British government has implied their secrets were stolen

you imply that they can't be trusted when the claim that because their secrets were stolen. that is what you said and it is comically absurd because your reason for not trusting them is that they were right in the first place.

your post is ctually one of the funniest ones today.

[hueymahl]

221. Thank you.

I don't come to the same conclusions you do, as I don't necessarily draw the same inferences from the article since it is third party conjecture. And I don't necessarily trust the British Government's mouthpiece on this, Mr. Robbins. That said, It does appear that Greenwald and his partner were being grossly negligent in handling the information, regardless of what is in it. It is almost as if they wanted to be caught.

[underthematrix]

60. I wrote here on DU when this Snowden thing first came up

that Snowden was a foreign agent. Or he was being blackmailed or both. Why? According to published reports, Snowden had a serious credentials gap. His lack of credentials alone should have eliminated him from the first level of screening. This suggest he had inside help at both Dell and Booz Allen. His handlers at both companies are still there and this is who and what the US is really after. They also want Snowden back because by physically examining him the US will learn how he infiltrated their most secret system. Americans are so easily duped it's pathetic. This is what happens when you grow up in a country where information is treated as entertainment.

[creeksneakers2]

61. How do you know

that they were carrying the names of agents?

[arely staircase]

64. here

The material contains "personal information that would allow British intelligence staff to be identified," including overseas.

http://www.businessinsider.com/david-miranda-glenn-greenwald-documents-national-security-2013-8

[bemildred]

67. Well, it's weird, is what it is.

The source of the weirdness remains speculative, but it's definitely incompetent to have your passwords etc. handy to the encrypted stuff in transit, and Miranda says he gave them what he had, but we have no details as to what he had, just AES256, and we know it was a bunch of Snowden's stuff because Greenwald said so, but again no details.

But Snowden is "famously paranoid", and one assumes he was not careless with keys, so how is this "Snowden's Stuff" if he did not encrypt it? Who did encrypt it? Poitras? But she is "famously paranoid" too. Greenwald could be that incompetent, and Miranda clearly is, but Greenwald's back in Brazil, so I don't see him encrypting this, though they would use his key.

So I'm waiting for the other shoe to fall, which would probably come from Greenwald, in the form of continued silence or a statement of apology or counterattack.

And I don't see that it affects more than Greenwald's personal drama, the stuff is still out there and being released.

[arely staircase]

84. he should have used snowden's invisibility hoodie

Snowden was said to have been so paranoid about security he lines the doors of his hotel room to prevent eavesdropping and covers his head and laptop with a large red hood to prevent passwords being copied by secret cameras.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/edward-snowden-whistleblower-responsible-biggest-1944928

[bemildred]

86. Being snotty won''t get you far with me, Sir.

I know feelings have been hurt, credibility damaged, and one wants to lash out, but it's not my problem.

[arely staircase]

89. yes, credibility has indeed been damaged. nt

[bemildred]

92. Mr. Greenwald's certainly has, and Ms Poitras is in question, but it remains to be proven.

Right now we only have one side, I'm waiting to see what they have to say for themselves.

[arely staircase]

98. someone here has suggested the stuff was planted on Miranda's computer.

odd that neither Miranda, Poitras or Greenwald have claimed that.

[bemildred]

103. Anything is possible at this point. They all lie.

You are right that the long response time is "uncharacteristic" at this point, I think, but there are other explanations, ...

Not saying you are entirely wrong, mind you, seen it before, but as I said elsewhere here: false certainty will get you in a lot more trouble than mere attentive doubt.

Edit: one keeps ones options open precisely because it seems stupid, it you see? One doesn't want to make the mistake of underestimating ones opponents again, eh?

[arely staircase]

108. one thing is for sure

once greenwald posts something he will inevitably "update" it as he rarely gets it right the first time.

[bemildred]

112. Well, he obviously likes his job, so I do expect him to keep at it, as best he can.

And it's not pretty when he gets defensive, but so what? Greenwald is not the guy you need to worry about, he's just a reporter. The rest of the press has figured out that not doing it's job will do them more immediate harm than the spooks can, so Greenwald may well have to retire to obscurity again after this, although I expect he will be a "celebrity" forever, but again so what?

[sweetloukillbot]

198. He will also issue some sanctimonious tweets as soon as the story starts changing too n/t

[bemildred]

238. Right, we don't want anybody acting sanctimonious, do we?

Only the government gets to posture and preen.

[randome]

105. It's alien hoodies that are spying on us! That 'woman' is obviously a plastic manikin!

It's a ruse! They even have a guidebook: "To Warm Man".
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[arely staircase]

109. to serve man nt

[Mojorabbit]

231. Yes. I can't see Poitras sending a password on a piece of paper.

Something is just off about this whole incident.

[stonecutter357]

81. I think Glenn and comrad eddie are communist spies.

They are probably about to be in some deep shit.
GOOD

[randome]

88. They are their own worst enemies so maybe the best thing to do is leave them be.

They will eventually self-implode. Greenwald will punch out a school security guard for 'spying' on him. Or Snowden will be caught leaking details about Putin's 'fish' stories


"Psst. Vladimir. I know what you do to my friends when no one is looking."
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Warren Stupidity]

218. Wow. 1950 called. They want their red baiting back.

[stonecutter357]

237. No one is coming after you.

Wow Libertarians called they want their TROLL back

[rhett o rick]

83. "Its Now Pretty Obvious " Really? How so?

"the fact that his spokesman has his boyfriend travelling through international airports with that info ... paints a pretty clear picture of the level of security Snowden and company have maintained on their world wide espionage tour."

How do you know what data he has and who has gained access? Is this theory?

"It is also now clear that Greenwald lied about the quantity and nature of the data he possesses."

Really, it's now clear? How exactly is it now clear?

This looks like a Conspiracy Theory to me.

[arely staircase]

95. because their security methods suck

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3568899

[rhett o rick]

117. You are pushing a Conspiracy Theory.

Last edited Sat Aug 31, 2013, 12:16 PM - Edit history (1)

You have no proof of what documents they carry or how they are encrypted or if anyone got their hands on them.

[arely staircase]

124. lol

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/30/uk-government-says-greenwald-partner-practiced-terrible-security/

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/30/world/europe/uk-miranda-greenwald-court/?hpt=hp_t4

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nsa-leaked-documents-row-glenn-greenwalds-partner-david-miranda-held-notes-on-how-to-crack-computers-when-detained-at-heathrow-8791547.html

[rhett o rick]

179. Did you read the articles? Speculation and theory.

"Robbins said the material seized was "highly likely to describe techniques", "highly likely" is not definitive.

"A particular concern for HMG (the UK government) is the possibility " "is the possibility" is theory.

Looks like the British Authorities are pushing speculation and conspiracy theories.

And your "lol" ridicule is childish.

[MannyGoldstein]

96. So the NSA totally blows off pretty basic data protections, and that's cool, but

a guy writes down a password on paper (which could have been intentional to mislead authorities, BTW), and suddenly someone twice removed from him is responsible for disclosing all manner of state secrets.

Woof!

[caseymoz]

99. Yeah, except the story is unbelievable.

So, no, it's not pretty obvious.

Sorry, if they found that on him, they would have released it within 72 hours while the story of the arrest was hot. They also wouldn't have released Miranda without an arraignment and bail. You really think if you had gone through with the info they're claiming to have found on Miranda that they would have released you? Especially when you were likely to flee? Yes, espionage is done just like that.

No, it took them about a month to get their story together. You're taking the word from people who's job it is to lie to the public and who have every foreseeable motivation to smear Greenwald and Snowden. I'd like to say, what's wrong with you?

This has all the markings of a setup, and you're taking the word of the known liars and opportunists. I think it's pretty obvious that you're a little biased in making judgments about this.

[Octafish]

100. Link?

That's a lot of inference. I'd like to know if it's true.

[arely staircase]

133. links

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/30/uk-government-says-greenwald-partner-practiced-terrible-security/

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/30/world/europe/uk-miranda-greenwald-court/?hpt=hp_t4

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nsa-leaked-documents-row-glenn-greenwalds-partner-david-miranda-held-notes-on-how-to-crack-computers-when-detained-at-heathrow-8791547.html

[TomClash]

101. Does using the phrase "forward deployed intelligence operatives" mean . . .

. . . you're an intelligence expert?

I thought they were just called agents, but what do I know.

Just sayin'.

What evidence suggests Snowden revealed the names of agents?

[arely staircase]

106. the story that has been posted several times in this thread

http://www.businessinsider.com/david-miranda-glenn-greenwald-documents-national-security-2013-8


and I use the term forward deployed to mean working clandestinely in the field overseas as opposed to analysis or interpreting or research etc. no I am not an expert and I may be misusing the term.

[scarletwoman]

107. Except this basically refutes your suppositions:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023569245

[Ocelot]

110. LINK PLEASE?

"Pretty obvious" doesn't cut it, sorry.

[Bluenorthwest]

116. CT should not be allowed in GD.

And this is that and nothing else.

[rhett o rick]

119. But I notice that the Anti-CT squad has approved this message. They only lock CT that goes against

their world view.

[randome]

123. There is no amorphous 'they'.

And I agree. The OP is based on supposition. Therefore, have fun with it and post something else!

This is who the NSA/UK is really after! He's the most mind-staggeringly dangerous man in the world!


[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

169. Personally I think we are to "CT" paranoid. Obviously some CT gets way crazy, but

some is worth discussing. Like did Snowden conspire to give secrets to our enemies? Is the NSA spying on millions of Americans? Politics abounds with conspiracies.

[SidDithers]

163. Awww....

Sid

[rhett o rick]

173. I am disappointed but not surprised at your petty ridicule. Are you here to only

ridicule or do you ever actually enter into discussions about major issues?

[SidDithers]

176. Wait...

"But I notice that the Anti-CT squad has approved this message. They only lock CT that goes against their world view."

That was discussing a major issue?

Pot. Kettle.

Sid

[rhett o rick]

184. That is your argument? You're justifying your behavior on what I do?

Even if I didnt discuss major issues, that shouldnt make any difference as to what you do.

Maybe I just miss it, but I never recall seeing you discussing major issues. Dont you have an opinion on the TPP, fracking, Wall Street, Glass-Steagall, the privatization of prisons, drone killing, etc.

[SidDithers]

197. Pot. Kettle...nt

Sid

[Warren Stupidity]

219. Well yah. Volunteer as a gd host. Interesting things

Happen. Sometimes it gets so interesting that trolls out themselves and get sent to troll heaven.

[rhett o rick]

220. I am a GD host. And it is very interesting. nm

[arely staircase]

120. uh huh

UK government says Greenwald partner practiced terrible security

In a written statement to a British court Friday, Oliver Robbins, deputy national security adviser in the Cabinet Office, said that the the UK government had managed to access some of the documents Miranda had been carrying in encrypted form.

While most of the files remained encrypted, it was possible to access a portion of files on the hard drive because a piece of paper containing basic instructions for accessing some of the data that included a password for decrypting one of the files was among Miranda’s things.

Robbins said assessments by GCHQ had shown that the number of documents on the hard drive seized from Miranda was consistent with the number that Snowden would have had access to when working at the NSA and that he “indiscriminately appropriated material in bulk”, and that at least some of that was being couriered by Miranda.

Robbins “believes the data may have already been obtained by one or more of the countries through which Snowden has passed since he fled the US,” including China and Russia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/30/uk-government-says-greenwald-partner-practiced-terrible-security/

[Whisp]

141. you wouldn't be one who still thinks Hastings car was hacked

and he was murdered by Obama?

There was that one and it had quite the long life here, and it sure was CT.
The family didn't appreciate that much.

[arely staircase]

196. Don't forget the FBI plot to kill OWS protestors in Houston.

That one got posted three or four times and stayed around for a while on each occasion.

[totodeinhere]

118. It is not obvious all. There can be many alternate explanations.

Your spin fits your own personal agenda on this matter.

[arely staircase]

128. my spin?

UK government says Greenwald partner practiced terrible security

In a written statement to a British court Friday, Oliver Robbins, deputy national security adviser in the Cabinet Office, said that the the UK government had managed to access some of the documents Miranda had been carrying in encrypted form.

While most of the files remained encrypted, it was possible to access a portion of files on the hard drive because a piece of paper containing basic instructions for accessing some of the data that included a password for decrypting one of the files was among Miranda’s things.

Robbins said assessments by GCHQ had shown that the number of documents on the hard drive seized from Miranda was consistent with the number that Snowden would have had access to when working at the NSA and that he “indiscriminately appropriated material in bulk”, and that at least some of that was being couriered by Miranda.

Robbins “believes the data may have already been obtained by one or more of the countries through which Snowden has passed since he fled the US,” including China and Russia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/30/uk-government-says-greenwald-partner-practiced-terrible-security/

[Snake Plissken]

122. Why should private contractors have access to this information in the first place?

Isn't this the question that should be ask, rather than what that private contractor ended up doing with it?

[randome]

125. Apparently Snowden used his coworkers' passwords.

It still should not have been that easy.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[arely staircase]

126. definitely nt

[AgingAmerican]

127. Except the article doesn't say that

Nor if there any evidence of it, according to the article.

[arely staircase]

137. really

Some of the key points of the statement, which intelligence analyst Joshua Foust called "extraordinary":
Robbins said that the case material included 58,000 documents that were "highly classified UK intelligence documents."
Among the documents was a piece of paper with the decryption password.
Police decrypted one file on Miranda's hard drive with the password.
The material contains "personal information that would allow British intelligence staff to be identified," including overseas.
Because of the size and scope of the material gathered, the British government believes that Edward Snowden "indiscriminately appropriated material in bulk."
In what could be a particularly troubling development, the UK government has "had" to assume that Snowden's data is in the hands of foreign governments to which he has traveled: Hong Kong and Russia. (Greenwald told Business Insider last week that it was "highly unlikely" that had happened, however.)
Robbins argued that it is "impossible" for Greenwald or any other journalist to determine which information could damage national security.


http://www.businessinsider.com/david-miranda-glenn-greenwald-documents-national-security-2013-8

[Whisp]

142. Except it doesn't say that...

in Russian.



We are being flooded with De Niles.

[AgingAmerican]

148. Assume

Suppose to be the case, without proof.

[Whisp]

164. so that should also apply to Snowden, proof he can hack into Obama's email, etc.,

???

[AgingAmerican]

168. Assume = wild guess

nt

[arely staircase]

149. and conspicuously absent is a denial from miranda, greenwald, etc.

they originally claimed he just had games on his computer then when the Brits decrypted some docs, not a peep. if he wasn't carrying around the names of British agents why hasn't he said as much?

[Whisp]

166. I am losing track on the sequence of events...

but when the UK/Miranda story broke, didn't GG actually admit Miranda had some of the Snowden documents on him? Then he changed the story to games?

This is like watching Inspector Gadget with that group.

[arely staircase]

186. ok

In an Aug. 19th Guardian story Miranda said he had no idea what he was carrying from "Laura" to Greenwald.

"His carry-on bags were searched and, he says, police confiscated a computer, two pen drives, an external hard drive and several other electronic items, including a games console, as well two newly bought watches and phones that were packaged and boxed in his stowed luggage.

"They got me to tell them the passwords for my computer and mobile phone," Miranda said. "They said I was obliged to answer all their questions and used the words 'prison' and 'station' all the time."

"It is clear why they took me. It's because I'm Glenn's partner. Because I went to Berlin. Because Laura lives there. So they think I have a big connection," he said. "But I don't have a role. I don't look at documents. I don't even know if it was documents that I was carrying. It could have been for the movie that Laura is working on."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/david-miranda-interview-detention-heathrow

Greenwald's statements have just been indignation concerning the detention of Miranda and have neither confirmed nor denied that Miranda knew what he was carrying - as far as I can tell.

[Whisp]

192. I certainly can be wrong on this

but fairly certain GG made another U turn in his story.

I'll look around and see if I can find something.

[arely staircase]

195. if he did send Miranda through Heathrow unknowingly carrying an encrypted list of British agents

that is kind of shitty.

[AgingAmerican]

146. Had to "ASSUME"

Assumptions are not facts, hence my reply.

[arely staircase]

153. so if someone not intrusted with your credit cards got ahold of them and took off to europe

would you assume they had been compromised and cancel them? Or say "I'm not going to speculate as to what the person who stole my cards may do with them, I'm going to wait for proof that they are using them?

[randome]

159. And when you're talking about people's lives at stake, it's even more important to not take chances.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[arely staircase]

160. Exactly. nt

[randome]

161. Actually, the very act of trying to move agents to safety can endanger them.

Depending, I guess, on how their exits are portrayed. That's why compromising national security is a serious offense regardless of whether or not one can point to a dead body to prove it.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[AgingAmerican]

171. Nice try except

It has nothing to do with credit cards. Assumption = wild guess.

[arely staircase]

227. yeah, the stakes are much higher than a credit card situation -lives are on the line nt

[AgingAmerican]

232. Lives are on the line 'if what they made up is true'

Only problem is they made it up.

[stupidicus]

140. The only thing "obvious" is that claims have been made

which no doubt will be taken as gospel by countless _________.

Wow, Robbins "believes" all the files are in the possession of other governments? Does he "believe" in his own integrity do you think?

Gee, were the 58K docs encrypted with hundreds of keys, and weren't they lucky that the one he stupidly provided them reveals the names of agents, etc?

But the government’s statement raises as many questions as it answers. For example, the government claims that Miranda was carrying 58,000 encrypted documents. Yet David Barrett of the Telegraph quotes the government saying that so far, “only 75 documents have been reconstructed.” If the government had the password used to encrypt the documents, they should have been able to unscramble all 58,000 documents. If not, how did they know how many files he was carrying?

I believe I own the Golden Gate Bridge -- would you like to buy it?

[arely staircase]

145. so they can't count encrypted files? nt

[stupidicus]

170. it's your material/proof

of what you "claim" as a result.

Obviously the point of my using it wasn't to get into a protracted debate about whether they can or can't count "files", but rather to point out how truly lucky they were that outta all the potential keys (assuming there are more than one as this whole line of BS makes the case for) that the one "stupidly" left behind is the one that allows them to make the specific case they are -- that personnel, methods and means, etc, are potentially endangered.

but do keep dodging. So far that's been the only strong suit your side has had in this "debate".

And in the final analysis, even it all that should be proven true, Snowden's guilt of such in no way alters the guilt for illegalities on the part of the NSA and the one in responsible charge of them.

Another thing I'd like to know, not that I expect an answer from any of you wouldbe braniacs, is even if the Russina or Chinese managed to get their hands on the files, where's the evidence that any keys were present or provided? Did they torture it outta him? As far as I can tell that was something that was uniquely part of "mule" process ongoing between GG and Miss P, so they'd not have access to it. Oh that's right, the "SNowden is an anti-American spy" narrative is just to tantalizing to let die, no, so you'll cling to anything that keeps it alive?

You guys are making mental/logic leaps with all the intelligence and sense of direction a mexican jumping bean possesses.

please continue

[arely staircase]

187. if the british can decrypt enough of it to see that the info revealed the identities of their agents

one can reasonably infer the Chinese and Russians could and did do the same. they would be idiots not to. what do you reckon was going on while snowden was in the Russian consulate in China with his laptops? Exchanging Borscht recipes?

If I took off to Europe with your credit cards would you wait for proof that I was using them or would you use common sense and assume you accounts had been compromised? No great mental leap needed.

[AgingAmerican]

200. And IF pigs could fly

One can reasonably infer that we would be able to use them as a new form of transportation.

[arely staircase]

201. and if you would make a coherent point we could discuss this issue nt

[stupidicus]

246. good grief

in other words, Snowden has been traveling around with the encryption key as Miranda allegedly was?

the only thing there's any real evidence for here is that you lack it.

You champions of the "SNowden is a traitor" narrative will just make it up as you go along, no?

[arely staircase]

247. What do you think he was doing at the Russian consulate with the data?

Just holding it in his lap and talking about other stuff? I know it is getting harder and harder to defend this guy, but I suppose some are determined to try.

[stupidicus]

248. it's child's play against the likes of you

since you have nothing but speculation that you're apparently silly enough to think qualify as facts.

[SidDithers]

147. Spending a couple of days at the Russian consulate in Hong Kong...

before flying to Moscow.

What possibly could have been going on?

Sid

[MADem]

177. Visiting old friends?

Maybe ones he made when he was visiting Hong Kong on vacation with his girlfriend, back when he worked in Japan?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[SidDithers]

180. It certainly makes the choice of Moscow the destination from Hong Kong curious...

I don't for a second believe anymore that he innocently got stuck at the Moscow airport when the US revoked his passport. I don't think he was en route to another destination via Moscow.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if Moscow was his destination all along, and the "month" in the transit area was nothing more than theatre from he and Putin.

But DUers sure love their Eddie.

Sid

[MADem]

183. I am singing from that same sheet music.

I think he got a great payday out of all this, too.

No wonder those 'usual suspect' South American nations were so eager to offer asylum--they likely knew they'd never have to make good on it. Nudge, wink, eh!

[arely staircase]

193. His 30th birthday party then off to a private residence for

Fried Chicken, Pizza and cell phones in the fridge.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-08-26/world/41446952_1_edward-snowden-snowden-s-russian-consulate

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-24/world/40166097_1_u-s-justice-department-arrest-warrant-julian-assange

[delrem]

150. Well this OP sure has distinguished the thinkers from the haters.

Like moths to flame.

[ucrdem]

162. good lord.

Where to begin. I won't. Thanks for this info which is astonishing. Rec.

[NCTraveler]

185. I would, at a minimum, like to see Snowden answer for his actions.

At the same time, the conversation he started is extremely important. I do not have to like him in the least to feel that way. He is, at this point in time, pretty insignificant to me. The information is out there and one would have to be pretty foolish to think China and Russia are not in possession of that information. The ongoing conversation this has started is important to all of us.

[mick063]

188. This is about an inability to secure information.

If this is a matter of trust, then the mistrust goes beyond Snowden.

Why is the intelligence community put in such an embarrassing position to begin with?

Do they let any old "traitor" steal information?

For every Snowden caught, how many are running free?

How many are extorting/coercing politicians, financial leaders, or policy makers?

The mistrust of the NSA begins with unnecessary blanket surveillance and ends with their inability to properly manage and secure it.

Get to the root of the issue here.

[Harmony Blue]

194. Since we are throwing CT

now in the general forum here is mine.

Both the UK and US governments were outraged by the Snowden revelations because it threw their timetable to attack Syria off kilter.

[bvar22]

204. Posts like this are an embarrassment to the DU Community.

Don't we have a basement forum for Wild Assed Conspiracy Fantasies?

[randome]

205. We do have a forum for that. It's called 'General Discussion'.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[bvar22]

208. This should be filed next to Colin Powell's speech before the UN.

I propose a NEW Forum for you guys:

The
[font size=3]Stuff we really, REALLY want to be true,
because then we wouldn't look like such assholes
for believing things without a shred of evidence,
but enjoy repeating baseless fantasies in public because it makes us feel better[/font]
Forum.

Better make that a Protected Group so you can keep reality from intruding.

[Whisp]

213. Detained partner of Guardian journalist was ‘human carrier pigeon’, High Court is told

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nsa-leaked-documents-row-glenn-greenwalds-partner-david-miranda-held-notes-on-how-to-crack-computers-when-detained-at-heathrow-8791547.html

NSA leaked documents row: Glenn Greenwald's partner David Miranda held notes on how to crack computers when detained at Heathrow

...

Oliver Robbins, a senior adviser for intelligence security and resilience in the Cabinet Office, said that while the memory sticks Mr Miranda had were encrypted, the Government had been able to view 58,000 pages of highly classified documents on one of them because Mr Miranda had passwords and basic instructions written on paper he was carrying. They could represent the entirety of British intelligence held on one network at the US National Security Agency, Mr Robbins added. The couriering of insecure information, along with memory sticks, displayed “very poor” judgement and Mr Robbins claimed there was a real possibility that “non-state” actors could view or seize the material.

...

He said he could not go into detail about the “real and serious” damage already caused by the disclosures and said that officials were still attempting to view other encrypted files. “I can say with confidence in this statement that the material seized is highly likely to describe techniques which have been crucial in life-saving counter-terrorist operations and other activities vital to UK national security,” wrote Mr Robbins. “The compromise of these methods would do serious damage to UK national security and ultimately risk lives. Anything that reveals or indicates the identities of members of UK security and intelligence agencies would be of value to elements hostile to the national interest of the United Kingdom, including foreign intelligence agencies and terrorists.”

[alarimer]

215. More lies from the authoritarian camp. n/t

[GeorgeGist]

222. Your insults are homophobic.

[Whisp]

223. Your criticism is weak.

and stupid.

[arely staircase]

229. given what I just spent the last hour and a half doing

you win the most absurd post of the day award.

[woo me with science]

226. No, it's not.

This is perhaps the most underwhelming attempt at smear propaganda you have posted yet, for reasons that others have already explained many times in this thread.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

228. It's been obvious from the beginning

I keep posting this and the Snowden folks keep ignoring it. But there's just one small thing, ever so slightly inconvenient: These are Snowden's own words.

Pay attention people:

What Snowden May Know About Human Ops

Beyond technical systems, U.S. officials are deeply concerned that Snowden used his sensitive position to read about U.S. human assets, for example spies and informants overseas as well as safe houses and key spying centers.
They worry this recent quote from Snowden was not an exaggeration: ”I had access to the full rosters of everyone working at the NSA, the entire intelligence community, and undercover assets all over the world. The locations of every station, we have what their missions are, and so forth.”
So it’s not just about what he took, but what he knows, officials emphasize. Officials describe Snowden as a walking treasure trove, a dream for foreign intelligence services. One intelligence official called Snowden and his cache an “entire U.S. government problem.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/06/officials-how-edward-snowden-could-hurt-the-u-s/

So why has this debate gone on for 200 posts in this thread, and Lord only knows how many posts in other threads? Why are we debating this when he said it flat out? What about that quote is it that you guys do not understand?? Seriously?

This isn't a game, you know.

[SwampG8r]

234. we have had some discussions that didnt go badly

so ill take a chance
this is the second night I came home from work and saw this bucked up to the top
so its been at least that long since you wrote it
please read the first sentence and think about what the tone says to gay duers
I don't know if you intend to do so but the terminology is insulting
it adds nothing to what you are trying to show and in fact makes the issue undebatable
why stir it up more, when your point could be made by letting the gallon of information out without the tablespoon of wrong it has right at the top

[arely staircase]

240. gay and bisexual men have boyfriends, I know because I am one who does. jeez

where is this world where that is unsulting? are only straight women allowed to use that word for their partners? as I post this my boyfriend is making coffee.

[SwampG8r]

242. i hope its a good cup

they are married so boyfriend could and has been seen as belittling
straight women would say my husband when talking about someone who they are married to and married guys don't call their wives girlfriends....trust me on this
if and when your boyfriend and yourself make a legal commitment would you find it insulting if I kept referring to him as your boyfriend to the exclusion of recognizing your marriage?
now I don't drink coffee myself it makes me edgy and my stomach all squirrelly but my wife does and she puts about a half a cinnamon stick in with hers to brew
she says it brings the flavor out

[flamingdem]

244. recommend

verrry interesting, thanks