HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Something is fundamentall...

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 10:05 AM

Something is fundamentally wrong with our system when one of our planet's

biggest assholes can lose three popular votes (counting the Senate here) and still claim victory, when our governmentís vestigial structure (again the Senate) can monkey wrench effective government for years upon the feted whims of a power mad amphibian, and when a lunatic minority (you got it, the Senate) can hold sway over an apparently more creative and intelligent majority. Itís (the Senate) not functional. Itís corrupt. Itís diseased.

54 replies, 5803 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 54 replies Author Time Post
Reply Something is fundamentally wrong with our system when one of our planet's (Original post)
Magoo48 Feb 2021 OP
LakeArenal Feb 2021 #1
ShazzieB Feb 2021 #2
dameatball Feb 2021 #9
KS Toronado Feb 2021 #15
Magoo48 Feb 2021 #24
Laelth Feb 2021 #3
Under The Radar Feb 2021 #4
SayItLoud Feb 2021 #5
paleotn Feb 2021 #16
Under The Radar Feb 2021 #32
paleotn Feb 2021 #41
Under The Radar Feb 2021 #47
LastLiberal in PalmSprings Feb 2021 #35
paleotn Feb 2021 #39
LastLiberal in PalmSprings Feb 2021 #45
Escurumbele Feb 2021 #6
Tommymac Feb 2021 #8
certainot Feb 2021 #22
Escurumbele Feb 2021 #28
summer_in_TX Feb 2021 #50
certainot Feb 2021 #53
summer_in_TX Feb 2021 #54
dameatball Feb 2021 #7
Turin_C3PO Feb 2021 #10
Bettie Feb 2021 #40
Turin_C3PO Feb 2021 #44
Bettie Feb 2021 #46
MrScorpio Feb 2021 #11
MASW Feb 2021 #12
Delphinus Feb 2021 #21
HariSeldon Feb 2021 #31
Maru Kitteh Feb 2021 #48
the_sly_pig Feb 2021 #13
Oldem Feb 2021 #23
BobTheSubgenius Feb 2021 #33
paleotn Feb 2021 #14
BobTheSubgenius Feb 2021 #34
pandr32 Feb 2021 #17
bucolic_frolic Feb 2021 #18
MASW Feb 2021 #19
Initech Feb 2021 #20
llashram Feb 2021 #25
TheRickles Feb 2021 #26
Magoo48 Feb 2021 #27
Pepsidog Feb 2021 #29
TryLogic Feb 2021 #30
Jon King Feb 2021 #36
leftstreet Feb 2021 #43
Hortensis Feb 2021 #37
dalton99a Feb 2021 #38
Blue Owl Feb 2021 #42
msfiddlestix Feb 2021 #49
Magoo48 Feb 2021 #51
msfiddlestix Feb 2021 #52

Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 10:08 AM

1. Great post. Exactly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 10:24 AM

2. I hate to nitpick, since I agree with all of this. But I feel compelled to point out that

Turtles are reptiles, not amphibians.

But like I said, I DO most heartily agree with these sentiments.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ShazzieB (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 11:25 AM

9. He is an Amfibbinagain.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dameatball (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 11:48 AM

15. Qrump had being an Amfibbinagain down to an art form

Love your new word.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ShazzieB (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:24 PM

24. Oops, my bad.🤷🏼‍♂️

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 10:31 AM

3. Reptile ... not an amphibian.

Otherwise, yes. Something is rotten in Denmark.

-Laelth

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 10:51 AM

4. It is worse than that - he can continuously break any law and not be held accountable

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Under The Radar (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 11:18 AM

5. Agree and:

When he is sued for civil damages he will drag it out for years, then in the end IF he's held accountable will offer to settle for X$. WITH his Cults contributions to his "future political efforts".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Under The Radar (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 11:52 AM

16. I wouldn't go that far....

He lost that "power" at 12 noon on Jan. 20. He didn't attempt to pardon himself or his spawn, and no one pardoned him. He's wide open to all sorts of criminal convictions, depending on what can be proven in court. That's not going to happen overnight, but it will happen. Mainly because these aren't the smartest of people. Patience, grasshopper.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to paleotn (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:38 PM

32. Prosecutors judges and juries will be threatened by the MAGA mob

And Trumps own armed Militia will stand in front of their houses taught their families. Some can be bought off and if there are any penalties it will only be a slap on the wrist.
His power is the mob. I donít believe it to be 75 million as claimed, but it is a large enough number that 40% of the legislature wonít stand up to him. The republicans that hate him are quitting, resigning rather than risk their safety and any future as a lobbyist.
Mitch had the power by voting against him and bringing more than 17 republicans with him. He let that pass and it will be very difficult to reverse.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Under The Radar (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 03:58 PM

41. And they will be arrested, tried and convicted.

and sentenced to jail for obstructing justice and threatening witnesses and jurors just like a whole bunch of their compatriots from Jan 6. 40% of the Senate are worried about losing their jobs, not some mob at their house. 200+ of the "mob" are currently arrested, in jail or awaiting trial. Many will be in prison for a long time. And many are on the lam awaiting the inevitable..."I'm agent so and so and this is agent so and so from the FBI."

The republic hasn't fallen, so stop with the hyperventilating and stop with the defeatist bullshit, please.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to paleotn (Reply #41)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 08:43 PM

47. At the moment you are correct, but if they allow Trump to be boss

Law and order is just as he sees it and if only it fits his purpose

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to paleotn (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:54 PM

35. We don't know if he issued himself a "secret pardon."

The lawyer pundits were discussing this possibility during that "pardons go wild" phase Fat Donnie went through before he slithered out the door.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LastLiberal in PalmSprings (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 03:52 PM

39. It will still have to be adjudicated publicly.

And by a court system that owes him nothing. They have life time appointments. He didn't know any of these people anyway, so there's no bond of loyalty to his orange ass. The law is silent on self pardoning by a president. It is also silent on so called secret pardons. When it comes to blanket pardons, there's the problem of specificity. Federally, all this adjudication might take a while. BUT....NY and GA are free to indict, arrest, convict and imprison regardless of what Donnie did in the middle of the night when no one was watching. And like Al Capone, the financial crimes, will probably be his undoing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to paleotn (Reply #39)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 05:40 PM

45. I read that because he drew up the pardons himself, they were so narrowly written that

his co-conspirators are still vulnerable to prosecution on a bunch of other charges. That's the problem with thinking, "Nobody knows more about pardoning people than I do!"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 11:20 AM

6. Yes, those are the Electoral College and the Fillibuster

Get rid of those two and we can really move forward.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Escurumbele (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 11:24 AM

8. But But But...

I got nothing.

You are absolutely right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Escurumbele (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:10 PM

22. to get rid of them destroy RW radio first - everything else will be easy

it's the only significant advantage they have and limbaugh's imminent death and artificial intelligence allowing large scale monitoring of it mean it's on the edge of a cliff. it just needs a push - like some serious AI-enhanced boycotts

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to certainot (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:33 PM

28. You are correct, and...improve the educational system in the USA

Promote reading, the arts, science, when all those things flourish and kids have their minds expanded to do independent thinking they will also stop listening to the bull that limbough and faux news spews on a daily basis.

Lies have to be punished, lying is not supported by the first amendment, that is BS.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to certainot (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 01:02 AM

50. Hugely important.

How do we weave our way through thorny First Amendment issues to deal with those 1500 RW radio stations, FOX News, Newsmax and OAN?

Something has to be done.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to summer_in_TX (Reply #50)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 10:34 AM

53. use AI to automatically record, transcribe, and analyze it - expose it, and boycott it until the

ad industry and the station owners have to break up the monopoly

the ad industry and the station owners are already probably trying to figure out what to do withe 600 limbaugh stations and how they will replace him - they won't be able to get the same revenue for replacements. different owners will want different replacements and none of the second rate options can replace limbaugh.

they might call a 'debate' on global warming legit but all those stations are licensed to operate in the public interest were calling COVID a hoax at ffirst and then overblown and politicized masks, etc. they are responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths. they followed limbaugh to scream HOAX! in a covid theater and they all should lose their licenses.

none of the 87 universities listed at fakenewsradio.org has any excuse to keep broadcasting sports on those stations

it might not take much activism to scare the ad industry into action. they want the ears those stations want and won't want to see a mass exodus of advertisers leading radio for other media

iff you know anyone in media or progressive or dem party leadership get them to start signaling such activism to the ad industry. it might just take a few press releases. the ad industry needs to know its coming. the MIT prototype for mass analysis of RW radio makes it inevitable the ad industry has to force the democratization/break up of the monopoly.

on a smaller scale AI makess it really easy to do a stoprush x 100 type boycotts

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to certainot (Reply #53)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 05:26 PM

54. Excellent suggestion and one I hadn't thought of.

I'll keep my eyes open for the right media activism organization. Maybe one of those participating in the Stop the Hate campaign like freepress.net.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 11:27 AM

10. Senate and Electoral College

are definitely undemocratic but I donít see a way of changing them. Our only hope lies in working within our current system and do as much as we can to elect Democrats.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 03:54 PM

40. Taking the cap off of the House

could mitigate the damage of the EC.

Not a perfect solution, but a good stopgap measure.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bettie (Reply #40)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 05:10 PM

44. That's a good idea.

Definitely doable, I would think. Realistically, a country our size should have closer to 1000 House reps. 435 is far too few.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #44)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 06:21 PM

46. Yes, and raising the number would

ensure that the EC votes and congressional representation would be where people live.

It doesn't fix the Senate, but it would go a long way toward making things better.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 11:31 AM

11. If you're going to build a political system that's hinged...

On disenfranchising an entire population of Black bodies and then would do very little to prevent that disenfranchisement from being reinterpreted in as many ways as possible, then yeah, we shouldn't be surprised about where this country is today.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 11:34 AM

12. Time for the Dems to play some serious f'ing hardball.

 

There can be zero illusions about what the GOP is: an enemy of the US Constitution and the American people. It's a bizarre situation. I don't know what the long-term solution is, but in the short-term, we need to start by doing whatever it takes to stay in power. Reveal every lie and PROSECUTE every crime perpetrated by GOPers. And--I don't know how this is done--but if the electoral college can't be abolished, we need statehood for DC, Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands. We've allowed ourselves to be tricked and trampled long enough.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MASW (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:08 PM

21. Welcome to DU!



And I agree with what you have said.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MASW (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:37 PM

31. We need a drip campaign of ads on tv and radio

Tagline: "86% of Republicans in the US Senate refused to hold Trump responsible for the violence at the US Capitol he incited. Any vote for a Republican is a rejection of the United States Constitution."

Run this for the next two years -- don't let people forget.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HariSeldon (Reply #31)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 08:52 PM

48. Keep it simple and repeat a unified message ad nauseum. Label

them as the fascists they are and never let up on it. Stain them all with the same brush and never miss an opportunity to remind people about the Republican fascist agenda.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 11:45 AM

13. The wheels of justice turn slowly.....

It really doesn't matter whether Dump was convicted in the Senate. The point is that he was impeached twice. The GQP OWNS all of it. The graft, the corruption, the lies, the bigotry ... everything.

So in the coming years I believe the majority of the citizens of the United States are going to have to make a choice. How badly do you(we) want to live in a constitutional republic? The consequences of that decision are heavy regardless of the side one chooses.

Rome fell. The British empire fell. The Egyptians fell. All of which were historically majestic and global powerhouses.

These are the facts as I see them. 75 million US citizens voted for a seditious traitor. An unknown percentage of the military has become radicalized. You cannot fix stupid.

Dump is just a symptom. He'll likely spend the rest of his days in court so who cares.

I don't think the resolution to the the problem of a seditious, treasonous minority population is a peaceful one. During my lifetime United States has always, at least attempted to appear to be above petty, divisive hatred. That is no longer the case.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to the_sly_pig (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:17 PM

23. This. All of it, except that

I see solutions. 75,000,000 people voted for dump; Biden got 81,000,000. That doesn't matter; what matters is that Biden won so many swing states, thus winning the Electoral College by seventy-four votes. So, if we can't get rid of the EC, the goal is to hold on to the swing states, the swing voters. That gives us a defined target; hitting it will ensure victory. Victory is nice, but it's the reverse I worry about: we can't have this version of the repug party in power, again. Voter registration and mobilization thus becomes the solution to the problem.

Repugs have done too good a job winning at the state level, governors, secretaries of state, state legislatures, etc. That must be reversed, and that will take time. Again, it's about voter registration and mobilization. If anything heartens me, it's the recent data on young voters favoring democrats.

Yes, Egypt, Greece, Rome, etc. fell. We're teetering on the brink. But if dems and all dem supporters roll up our sleeves and open our wallets, we might well restore the balance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Oldem (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:38 PM

33. That is an important point. When you talk of the GOP training their sights on state level,

it's even a broader reach than that. It shoots past state leg. and goes all the way down to dogcatcher, or treasurer of a civic beautification board. Anything that's an elected position, they want it, are eager to go after it, and will bide their time doing the job. Or paying a little attention to the job and more time barking at the moon.

Not only do they end up with a power structure from top to bottom (in their best case scenario) but they have candidates that are known to everyone when it comes time to "level up."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 11:46 AM

14. Contrary to popular myth, our founders were not "gods"....

They had to make the same stinky compromises and kick cans down the road just like we do sometimes. America is an unfinished work and each generation is charged with making it closer to it's creed and ideal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to paleotn (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:46 PM

34. That is the other big point I was going to make, but you were ahead of me.

You're absolutely right. They were not prescient, nor anywhere near perfect. Many owned slaves, and enough of them agreed that they were able to adopt and codify the idea that anyone other than a white male land-owner was entitled to, at most, 35 of a vote.

They seemed to attach great importance to that fraction.

Anyway, the point is, they were a product of their times and did a damned good, but not a perfect job using what they had.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 11:52 AM

17. It's the GQP that is the problem

The tight MAQA group within the larger one (leaves few out) and their group think does not operate with reason and ethics. They are the disease, the cult, and we must rid ourselves of them somehow.
In the meantime, Biden and his administration are getting to work and accomplishing much, but with the constant threat of the MAQA group trying to expand their reach and take back control.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 11:53 AM

18. Any institution of rules, law, order

requires making fools of the greatest number of people. It's power, hierarchy, discipline. Problems arise when that power is concentrated in too few people, and especially one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 11:56 AM

19. I'm with you, Sly_Pig.

 

Rome (first the Republic and then the Empire) fell in a manner eerily similar to what we're looking at today. More, let's remember that "crossing the Rubicon" refers not just to a point of no return, but to the point at which Julius Caesar decided to lead troops to invade Rome and declare himself dictator of the Roman Republic. His actions were considered a treasonous insurrection...and as we know, he was murdered. Ten years of civil war followed. When peace was achieved, the Republic was dead. Rome then had a series of emperors as it lumbered toward corruption, insanity, massive inequality...and its eventual fall.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:00 PM

20. I think that this is one instance where you can hate both the player and the game.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:25 PM

25. so true

divinely worded. Thank you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:26 PM

26. An election that went 57% - 43% would be called a landslide.

Some similar stats from another DU post (sorry, can't find the link):
ē Senators voting to impeach represent 61.6% of the population. (202,119,286 people)
ē Senators voting against represent 38.2% of the population. (125,414,488 people)
ē Senators voting for impeachment represent 76.7 million more people than senators voting against

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:32 PM

27. About the amphibian/reptile error. Sorry about that. I taught science for crying outloud.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:33 PM

29. Right on!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 12:34 PM

30. I suggest as time passes certain types of people learn of game the system, any system.

At this point in time, a high percentage of those types of people are Republican.

In addition to upgrading Republican politicians, we do indeed need to upgrade the system.

The biggest challenge may be free speech. This bulwark of democracy also appears to be its greatest vulnerability. Knowingly disseminating misinformation that endangers health, safety, or national security really should be a serious crime.

AND... All viable presidential and VP candidates need to be cleared for top secret security clearance before being placed on the final ballot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 01:02 PM

36. Minority rule is baked into the system...

The electoral college, 2 Senators regardless of population, Citizens United, ridiculously drawn districts, and now a Supreme Court that does not represent the population make up of the country.

And the laughable thing is they are the ones angry and storming the Capitol! The minority who have benefited from the corrupt system forever are the ones acting aggrieved.

Simply amazing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jon King (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 04:23 PM

43. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 01:22 PM

37. The "something" is people, Magoo. The dangerous flaw of

any system that includes free choice as a significant variable.

All I can suggest is I fix me and you fix yourself. If you do a better job than I am, maybe you'll go on to join a group trying to help others be better.

The other possibility is to eliminate people from the system, one way or another, but all ways are big nos for me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 01:24 PM

38. It's fucked up

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 04:19 PM

42. The very definition of dysfunctional

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2021, 08:55 PM

49. Yep, all the things you said.

Now, how do we start to clean it up?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msfiddlestix (Reply #49)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 07:12 AM

51. Hell, I'm not sure.

Iíll continue to support and praise liberty and compassion; Iíll continue to point out greed and corruption. When I see injustice, Iíll call it out. When itís necessary, Iíll boycott or make a ruckus. Sometimes I wonder if anything is really effective, but I feel better when those around me know where I stand.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Magoo48 (Reply #51)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 08:58 AM

52. Well I've been thinking about this question of how to proceed to clean it up

I think the obvious is top priority. We have to continue to ramp up political participation in every single district in the country. Meaning recruiting good candidates for every local office from dog catcher to school boards, to city councils, county supervisors, sheriff offices where those are elected, local and state judges where those seats are elected and so on in every single district possible.

And of course voter participation and awareness and funding.

It's the same old story, it's tiresome, but it's necessary to repair, build and preserve our democracy.

Oh, and get Religion out of our political and policy decisions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread