India sentences four rapists to death. We should do the same.

[riqster]

http://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/india-sentences-four-rapists-to-death-we-should-do-the-same/

Snips:

"Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you saying “how barbaric” or something of such. But to Hell with it. Rape is endemic across the globe, and even when the victim dies or has their life ruined, most of the vile scumbag perverts get off with a slap on the wrist, or are not punished at all.

And because our “justice” system constantly sends the message that rape is no big deal by handing out little or no punishment for crimes of sexual violence, men think it’s OK to rape. Our smirking, winking, jocular, nudge-nudge cultural attitude towards rape is also a part of the problem. India provides a sharp departure from this sickening norm.

The four men who raped and murdered that poor woman in New Delhi will die by hanging. Yes. Rope around the neck, open the trapdoor, and the guilty party dangles and struggles until he dies. A horrible and painful death."

More at the link, including links to stories of rape and injustice from India, Ohio, Montana and Connecticut. I am fully aware that many people oppose the death penalty in all cases, and I respect their opinion. I just differ in the case of crimes of sexual violence.

[cali]

1. fuck Mr. Blunt and Cranky- to be blunt

the last thing we need in this country is to expand the dp. It's sick to support it.

Your lust- oops, I mean Mr. Asswipe Blunt and Cranky's lust- for "horrible painful death" as he fantasize over this execution is sick.

[Puglover]

21. +1000

God I hate seeing this shit on DU. Lock em up. Through away the fuckin key. The End.

Greatings from teh "Cyst on the Anus of the World" Cali!

[cali]

22. hey Pug

good to see you. hope all is well in "Cyst on the Anus of the World".

[Puglover]

68. Watching the sun set behind my beloved Cotacachi.

The cyst is paradise. Pure and lovely.

Listening to the music from Fiesta de Jora waft up the valley from town. (Jora is the start of the planting, wet season)

I wish I could send you a bottle of this beautiful air. Hater.

[Iggo]

2. Nope.

[treestar]

3. I'm against the DP period

And look at all the murder convictions that turned out to be wrong. For rape, it would be even easier to have wrong convictions, and people who got away with it are so huge in number that it wouldn't be a big deterrent.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

4. If you support executing anyone ever, you support sometimes executing innocent people.

Only an infallible justice system can execute guilty people without sometimes executing innocent people.

Therefor, if you support the death penalty for anyone, ever, you support making it more or less inevitable that sometimes innocent people will be executed.

I think that sometimes *imprisoning* innocent people, potentially including me, is a price worth paying for a) the security I get from would-be criminals having to fear it and b) the justice provided by punishing actual criminals.

I do not think that the additional gain on top of that provided by executing people instead of imprisoning them is sufficient to justify sometimes executing innocent people.

[nomorenomore08]

69. +1

Probably the most sensible post I've read on the subject.

[Marrah_G]

5. I disagree

A) You can never go back an fix a mistake if you sentence someone to death.

B) The state should never be used as a tool to commit homicide.

[Blue_Tires]

6. I though India sentenced four *murderers* to death??

[Iggo]

54. ^^^^^...and then there's this. ^^^^^

[Mariana]

61. Exactly. The headline is a lie. nt.

[riqster]

62. No, it's not. They murdered the girl by brutally raping her.

The "murder weapon" was rape.

[MineralMan]

7. No. I am unalterably opposed to the death penalty

in all cases. I will never move from that position. The state should not be in the position of taking individual lives, since it relies on an imperfect process to determine guilt.

[Jackpine Radical]

29. My objections are somewhat broader. Here is the text of an op-ed I wrote some years ago:

As an ex-field psychologist for the state Department of Corrections, I imagine I have met more murderers than the average citizen, and I have very little sympathy for them as a class of people. Why, then do I oppose the death penalty in Wisconsin? I assure you that my opposition to the death penalty has absolutely nothing to do with tender feelings for anyone who would deliberately kill others. Rather, I am very worried about the consequences of passing a death penalty on the state as a whole.

Four arguments are commonly made in opposition to the death penalty. Let me review them before moving on to the particular concerns I want to discuss. Here, then, are the traditional arguments:

First, we have no need for a death penalty to protect ourselves from murderers because Wisconsin law permits us to put them in prison for life without hope of ever being released.

Second, it is expensive to seek the death penalty. Studies in other states have shown that it costs more to sentence a murderer to death and then wade through the appeals process than it would have to simply imprison the criminal for life.

Third, there is always the possibility of executing an innocent person. Some people seem to think that the use of DNA evidence is an absolutely certain means of avoiding such errors, but that is simply not so. Any number of events, ranging from misbehavior on the part of police officers to errors at the crime lab, could bring about terrible miscarriages of justice.

And fourth, there is no evidence that the death penalty deters crime. Just consider for a moment—can you imagine criminals thinking to themselves, “I want to go on a killing spree, but they will put me to death if they catch me, so I won’t do it. However, I would go out and murder a bunch of people if all I had to face was life without parole.”

If you think the death penalty is somehow going to make you safer, how do you explain this?—Murder rates per 100,000 population range from a low of 1.2 in Maine to a high of 13.0 in Louisiana. Twelve states, including Wisconsin, have no death penalty. The average murder rate for these states is 2.90. The remaining 38 states have the death penalty. Their murder rate per hundred thousand residents is 5.3. The probability of this being a chance result is less than one in a hundred.

At 3.3 murders per 100,000, Wisconsin has a slightly higher murder rate than the average for states without the death penalty, but considerably lower than the average for states with the death penalty. Why, then, should we be in any hurry to legalize the death penalty and thereby join the group of states with the higher murder rates?

Another question—Might there be something about having a death penalty that causes states to have a higher murder rate? As a psychologist, I think there may be a connection. Let us make no bones about it. To approve the death penalty is to assert that it is permissible for a large number of people—the state—to gang up and put one of its members to death. When a state authorizes executions, it is in effect saying that killing is not only permissible, but is in fact desirable, in some circumstances, including circumstances that do not involve immediate self-defense. Children learn both behaviors and attitudes by the example of their elders. From what we know of child development, there is every reason to imagine that children who grow up in a society that approves the killing of human beings will have lower inhibitions against killing than do children whose society teaches an absolute intolerance of killing.

Wisconsin has never executed a criminal since attaining statehood in 1848, and explicitly forbade the practice in 1853. This is a proud tradition that I believe to be worth keeping.

[nomorenomore08]

76. Excellent. Should be an OP.

[Nye Bevan]

8. The death penalty is medieval and barbaric and an embarrassment to the United States.

We are one of the few remaining civilized countries to execute people, and the fact that we do takes away our moral authority to lecture the rest of the world about human rights abuses.

Moreover, innocent people will inevitably be executed. At least if a person in prison is exonerated they can be released and paid compensation.

And with the endless appeals and drama, it is much, much more expensive to execute someone than to simply keep them in prison for the rest of their life.

[stevenleser]

9. No death penalty. LWOP-Life With Out Parole nt

[riqster]

16. If I thought they'd actually keep it and not change it later, sure.

Look at that asshole judge in Montana- blew off the multi-year sentence and gave the perp one month.

Or the cases where LWOP is lessened on appeal, to be kind and gentle to the poor little baby sex criminal.

Those cases are part of why these crimes are so common. Crimes without clear and deterring punishment are perceived as not being all that serious.

[cali]

19. fucking ridiculous. first to use that anomoly as an example

and second the moron myth that lots of criminals get out early on appeal.

your op shows exactly what you are.

[riqster]

26. What I am is a rape survivor.

And I fully admit that I am not objective on the topic. I also said in my OP that I respect the opinions of those who disagree with me.

Anyone who has never been had someone violently assault them in such a manner is unlikely to fully grasp the enormity of such a crime. I was four years old in 1962 when it happened to me the first time.

Nothing was ever done to the perps who raped me. When I told the school nurse, I was later orally raped to such an extent that I required surgery. The surgeon looked the other way and wrote it up as correcting an "abnormality".

The same lack of justice permeates our institutions around the world. And the fact that it is so, 51 years later, proves that what we are doing to stop rape does not work. Simply continuing to do the same thing we have been does nothing but perpetuate the tacit endorsement of rape culture.

Instead of lobbing brickbats at those who disagree with you, perhaps you could offer alternative solutions when you don't agree with the ones presented. Just a thought.

[cali]

33. so am I. YOU sure the hell don't speak for me.

I'm sorry you were raped but that doesn't give you the right to speak for other rape victims.

I despise that blog. It's right wing crap.

[riqster]

36. I would never dream of speaking for you.

Since, in order to so, i would have to leap to conclusions, start flame wars, use ad hominem attacks on a frequent basis, and generally behave in a rude, disrespectful and personally abusive manner towards those with whom I disagreed.

So, don't worry. I will never speak for you. And I doubt anyone would ever think I did.

[cali]

40. sorry, sicko porn fantasies of executions deserve nothing but

scorn and flames.

And that fantasy about hanging is as sick as anything I've seen here.

[riqster]

46. Once again, assuming you understand my motivations.

A word to the unwise: we never know why a person says what they do. By leaping to the conclusion you have, you gain no insight into my mind; but you provide quite a bit of illumination as to what sorts of things are in yours.

[bettyellen]

51. oh please, there's no issue too small. you enjoy insulting others here.

it's your schtick. scorn and flames. blah blah blah.

[cali]

53. that's just bullshit.

but whatever, betty,. blah, blah blah, back at you.

[bettyellen]

56. wow, I'm surprised this is news to you.

It's one thing to be harsh on the issues discussed, if you stop there. But if you so often need to insult the person too, it's just pathetic. Interesting that you have never considered the difference between those two behaviors, or realize how frequently it happens. But by all appearances it seems you get off on personally insulting people here and your good points are often lost amidst all the vitriol. Ask around.

[Katashi_itto]

72. Have you thought about anger management?

Seriously, all that vitriol can't be healthy.

Try Tai Chi, Bonsai maybe.

Oh and Death penalty for Rape? Ummm No. Doesn't make rape any less horrific, but not death. Life without parole.

[Sissyk]

60. I'm sorry for what happened to you, rigster!

Truly sorry. I hope you have been able to find peace.

I can tell you with 100% certainty, though; that I would not want the death penalty for my rapist. I don't even want it for murderers.

We need to arrest and prosecute rapist and let them serve the maximum sentence. Sometimes that can't happen due to lack of evidence; which sucks. But I wouldn't have it any other way. I do believe in the better that one guilty person go free than 10 innocent get convicted.

Again, I hope you have found some peace in your life, rigster.

[petronius]

25. I'd say that's the exact same as one of the more pragmatic reasons for

opposing the DP - because mistakes might be made. It's certainly true that errors may occur with LWOP, but it's equally true that errors (of an irreparable kind) are possible with the DP. So I don't think that avoiding an LWOP error in the future is a good argument for risking a DP error in the present. (Although as an aside, risk-of-error is not my primary reason for opposing the DP.)

I agree that sex crimes need to be taken much more seriously, but there's a lot of room to work/improve between the sentences that are typically given now, and the DP...

[nomorenomore08]

77. Then why are rates of violent crime roughly half what they were 20 years ago?

And the rate of sexual assault, by some measures, a small fraction of what it was decades ago? When we're supposedly so "soft on crime."

[sibelian]

10. How about paedophilia?

Death Penalty?

[NuclearDem]

13. Louisiana already does that IIRC.

Death penalty for raping a child under 12

[riqster]

17. That, too, is rape. nt

[marmar]

11. A society that can't find a better solution than the DP is in trouble.

nt

[NuclearDem]

12. Absolutely not. The death penalty is utterly barbaric.

[riqster]

14. Like I said, I respect complete opposition to the DP.

I just don't share it it cases of rape. Unless we come up with a way to eliminate rape culture in society, it will continue.

Maybe there's another way. Probably is, but I'm not seeing it.

[GeorgeGist]

73. castration?

[MNBrewer]

75. Welcome to Saudi America

[nomorenomore08]

78. +1

Mutilation-as-punishment has basically all the same problems the DP has, namely that it's barbaric and Medieval, and that it's an irreversible punishment. Any chance of innocents being punished this way is unacceptable.

[fishwax]

90. "Maybe there's another way" -- but then again there's no evidence that the DP would work

(There is evidence, though, that the DP results in the death of innocent people.)

[Trajan]

15. Yes .. throw away all sense of moral decency

and accept the bloodlust of your fellow citizens ...

Sorry, Mr. I-Want-Blood-Vengence-And-I-Want-It-Now .... You can take your barbaric notions of blood justice straight to hell

[gollygee]

18. They were sentenced to death for the rape And Murder of the girl

Not sure why the fact that she died is not included in this?

However, I am opposed to the death penalty.

[RebelOne]

57. They should suffer the same torture that

they inflicted on that poor girl.

[gopiscrap]

20. I disagree I don't think there is ever a reason to employ the death penalty!

[cali]

23. I clicked the link. How fucking dare you?

How dare YOU speak for women who have been raped?

[cali]

24. what a stinking pile of shit Mr B&C deposited. And LIES. He's a fucking liar of the worst kind.

Many men simply do not understand that rape is bad, and all the fluffy “we are all good people deep down” pop psychology BS won’t change that. What will change it is meting out harsh, brutal, painful, public justice that admits of no ambiguity. Hang the rapists. And if that doesn’t work, keep hanging the useless, mama-threw-away-the-baby-and-raised-the-afterbirth raping pervert f***s until the message is well and truly understood: rape is a horrible crime, and you’d better not do

Mr. B&C death porn is sick. the asswipe is drooling over painful executions, no doubt jerking off as he types out his moronic shit.

fuck him, fuck him, fuck him.

Sicko freak.

[NoOneMan]

30. Yeah, that some sick stuff

And also...

Many men simply do not understand that rape is bad

Huh? How do they come by this? I really doubt that.

[riqster]

32. See post 26. And learn not to make assumptions.

Granted, that is unlikely. But we can hope.

[ZombieHorde]

27. I wouldn't be suprised if adding the DP would make

convictions even less common than they are right now.

[Mariana]

42. I think it would make survivors of rape less common.

Why would a rapist leave a victim alive to report the crime, identify the perpetrator, and provide evidence, if he's facing execution either way?

[ZombieHorde]

48. Good point. nt

[mythology]

85. This is an excellent point.

I'm glad somebody brought it up.

[NoOneMan]

28. Im bored of "I opposed the death penalty except...."

That means you endorse the state murdering people when it offends your arbitrary, relative moral sensibilities.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

31. No, we should not do the same.

I am absolutely opposed to the death penalty - not because I'm sympathetic toward criminals or "soft" on crime, but because our justice system (along with everybody else's) is imperfect and the death penalty can't be reversed. And there's something wrong with the notion that the state should commit murder, ever. Rapists and others who commit terrible crimes shouldn't escape punishment but nobody should be executed, ever.

Mr. Blunt & Cranky (with whom I have often agreed on other things) says: "Because our “justice” system constantly sends the message that rape is no big deal by handing out little or no punishment for crimes of sexual violence, men think it’s OK to rape. Our smirking, winking, jocular, nudge-nudge cultural attitude towards rape is also a part of the problem." That may well be true, but the cure is not the death penalty; it's changing our cultural attitude toward rape.

[Laelth]

34. Why don't we just execute all men while we're at it? They suck!

Sigh. Obviously rape is a violent, vicious attack, and I am not condoning it, but executing rapists strikes me as terribly unjust.

-Laelth

[LittleBlue]

35. Sorry, no

The death penalty is a sickening human rights violation.

Blunt and Cranky need to control their sick death fantasies.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

37. No.

Sentencing anyone to death solves absolutely nothing, no matter how horrific the crime.

[spanone]

38. killing is killing.

[cali]

39. what are the particulars here?

should everyone convicted of rape/sexual assault be executed?

should a 19 year old who has "consensual" sex with a 15 year old be executed?

[TheDeputy]

41. Pragmatically:

The death penalty is too expensive. It should be abolished. However, if we are going to have the death penalty, rapists, child molesters, and speeders should get it.









(Not serious about speeders)

[cali]

43. Yeah, it's expensive but it's also morally indefensible.

There is no way of guaranteeing that innocent people don't get executed, for one thing. For another it is not effective as a deterrent.

[TheDeputy]

44. Right as a deterrent.

Sometimes emotions demand vengeance. I think it would deter speeders. "You were clocked going 35 in a school zone, Sir. Please exit the car, and follow me to the gallows."

[tkmorris]

45. Whoever wrote that is a very sick individual

I am truly very sorry that you were a victim of such a terrible crime OP, but this is NOT a healthy way to cope with it.

[idwiyo]

47. No to DP, No to Life Without Possibility of Parole.

[The Straight Story]

49. That would be stupid on many levels

One being that if someone was falsely convicted and died it would add that much more pain to the victim and probably cause more victims to hesitate before coming forward.

[onehandle]

50. The death penalty is useless and expensive.

The United States has needlessly violent tendencies.

[Vashta Nerada]

52. Death is a bit much.

It sounds like bluntandcranky was masturbating to death as he wrote that article.

To me, it sounds like rightwing garbage.

[RebelOne]

66. No, death is not a bit much.

Those monsters tortured and raped a girl and then threw her out of the bus. They deserve that fate.

[Vashta Nerada]

67. Yes it is.

No one deserves to die, no matter how heinous the crime.

Let them rot in a jail cell for 50 years instead.

[RebelOne]

71. Yeah sure, and have taxpayers pay for the next 50

years for their food and housing. But these monsters will not last in prison. Someone will take them out.

[Vashta Nerada]

86. That's what I was implying in my post, with your last two sentences.

[joeybee12]

55. No, because capital punishment has never been a deterrent...nt

[cliffordu]

58. Yep. Castration and death by fire.

[rug]

63. Thank you, Torquemada.

Nobody had yet suggested death by fire.

[cliffordu]

65. I used to work with street kids.

Every fucking one of them were raped as children. Boys and girls.

As far as I know, none ever made it off the streets or back home.


Fuck rapists in hell. I say put them in the general population of any max security prison.


Not so they will be raped, I am not advocating that for anyone. I never will.

But a trip to the infirmary every three weeks for stab wounds or concussions or severe burns is a great idea.

I understand that during the Arizona prison riots 30 years ago or so, they used an industrial drill on the skulls of sex offenders.

Nice.

[rug]

80. You'll have to tell me about that work some time.

[cliffordu]

81. It broke my heart. Mebbe my soul.

It took everything away. Every bit of my suppositions about life.


I think I died a little.

[rug]

82. Sorry to hear that, cliff.

Still, there's an impressive amount of you left.

[cliffordu]

87. Thank you, my friend.

I wish I had more to give. I really do.

[uppityperson]

59. No. They did not. They sentenced 4 murderers to death.

[Starry Messenger]

64. Only if you want more rapists to murder their victims to eliminate accusations.

[RedCappedBandit]

70. Rape hardly ever ends in conviction. What does the DP do to address the actual issue?

[MNBrewer]

74. Which part, exactly, deserves the death penalty here?

People are acting like these men were convicted of rape and sentenced to death. NOPE!

They were convicted of rape and MURDER!!!!!

This is in NO WAY a reason to now start calling for the execution of convicted rapists (some of whom, I would like to add, are subsequently exonerated).

[Nevernose]

79. They didn't execute 4 rapists

They executed four murderers, and the horrific rape (is there a non-horrific rape?) was the aggravating factor in sentencing. So they weren't executed because they were rapists, they were executed because they were murderers.

[Warren DeMontague]

83. We need to take rape - and ALL violent crime - more seriously than we do.

Im opposed to the DP because our justice system isnt perfect. Because sometimes we get the wrong person.

The criminals in that Indian case were scum. Im in no way advocating leniency for that sort of thing.

Maybe the first thing to do in this country would be to stop letting violent criminals out to make room in our prisons for the pot growing grannies and the pain patients in wheelchairs who take "too many" pain meds.

[Warren Stupidity]

84. generally trapdoor hanging is gruesome but quick.

so even that part of this deranged sociopathic rightwing bullshit op is wrong.

[LostOne4Ever]

88. Death Penalty

Rape is a horrible horrible crime, but it does not amount to death. The punishment should fit the crime.

Further, if this was implemented it would just be another way for the innocent people to be put to death by the state. People who will never get justice for their murder.

The system needs to be fixed where women are listened to more by the system and where they get the education and support they need to deal with the trauma they are exposed to.

Society also needs to do a better job of telling young men that no means no and impressing upon everyone to respect one another.

These would be better ways of dealing with the problem.

[Egalitarian Thug]

89. We've got some really sick people here. n/t

[99Forever]

91. Absolutely not.

Imprison for life without parole. Fine.

Murder by the state? Not just no, but FUCK NO. Even for your pet crime.