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Fri Sep 20, 2013, 05:43 PM

WE HAVE LOST OUR SOUL

Last edited Fri Sep 20, 2013, 10:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Yes as a nation I remember a young president on a crisp clear day asking not what your country can do for you, but you can do for your country. And the nation took that heart. Peace Corps and Vista a couple of examples of that.

I remember a nation repulsed as they watched children and teenagers being hosed down in the streets of our southern cities. And the nation took action. A landmark civil rights bill.

I remember a nation being outraged that a president would try to rig an election, burglarize his enemies office and pay hush money to the perpetrators. And as a nation we forced a resignation.

But now...but now...

We see elections rigged with electronic voting machines and do nothing
we see districts gerrymandered and do nothing.

We see a president lie us into war and yet we vote for more military spending and do nothing

We see a president let a major American city laid to waste after a hurricane and do nothing

When we can't order our priorities to include universal health care like every other industrialized nation, we have lost our soul....

Worst yet...

We have let a mean streak into our national soul.

We shout over each other on news talk shows and chalk it up to entertainment.

We have relaxed or eliminated the civilized façade that held our societal glue together and yet laugh at the insults to those who can't defend themselves.

We witness the killing of 20 little children at an elementary and still value the possession of a gun over human life we have definitely lost our soul.

and most of all...

We cut the only funding the hungry have, we cut the money for housing for the homeless, we cut education for the masses, we cut mass transit for those who can't afford private transportation, and we enable the obscenely rich to get richer and control the national dialogue.

But worst even yet: we accept it. For every time we could have called, emailed, written, gone to a meeting and better yet get out in the streets and have passed that up...a little more of our soul flees.

If we don't speak up...no one will.....let's restore our soul...lets call for the decency and care that marked us as a nation. Let us lead...and for once and for all.... LET US PUT PEOPLE FIRST!!!



108 replies, 11167 views

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Arrow 108 replies Author Time Post
Reply WE HAVE LOST OUR SOUL (Original post)
gopiscrap Sep 2013 OP
LiberalLoner Sep 2013 #1
questionseverything Sep 2013 #2
CrispyQ Sep 2013 #90
questionseverything Sep 2013 #94
dreamnightwind Sep 2013 #96
questionseverything Sep 2013 #99
dreamnightwind Oct 2013 #100
questionseverything Oct 2013 #101
Arugula Latte Sep 2013 #3
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #5
rock Sep 2013 #79
furious Sep 2013 #4
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #6
socialist_n_TN Sep 2013 #7
FiveGoodMen Sep 2013 #14
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #34
FiveGoodMen Sep 2013 #56
Enthusiast Sep 2013 #69
socialist_n_TN Sep 2013 #83
ewagner Sep 2013 #8
Enthusiast Sep 2013 #70
Jakes Progress Sep 2013 #93
Enthusiast Sep 2013 #95
Jakes Progress Sep 2013 #92
ewagner Sep 2013 #98
zeemike Sep 2013 #9
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #35
Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #10
Jefferson23 Sep 2013 #11
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #36
BillyRibs Sep 2013 #12
Cryptoad Sep 2013 #13
SunSeeker Sep 2013 #17
CRH Sep 2013 #15
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #16
CRH Sep 2013 #19
Enthusiast Sep 2013 #71
Boom Sound 416 Sep 2013 #18
CRH Sep 2013 #23
nikto Sep 2013 #31
sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #20
Skidmore Sep 2013 #85
lastlib Sep 2013 #21
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #22
CRH Sep 2013 #26
niyad Sep 2013 #45
life long demo Sep 2013 #64
Enthusiast Sep 2013 #72
Raster Sep 2013 #24
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #25
blkmusclmachine Sep 2013 #27
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #38
Enthusiast Sep 2013 #73
Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #28
zeemike Sep 2013 #43
Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #62
zeemike Sep 2013 #77
Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #78
Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #86
1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #81
Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #87
1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #97
BelgianMadCow Sep 2013 #29
Whoopdedoo Sep 2013 #30
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #33
caseymoz Sep 2013 #32
LaydeeBug Sep 2013 #37
aikoaiko Sep 2013 #39
MFM008 Sep 2013 #40
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #41
greytdemocrat Sep 2013 #42
AAO Sep 2013 #44
niyad Sep 2013 #46
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #47
niyad Sep 2013 #48
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #49
99Forever Sep 2013 #50
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #52
99Forever Sep 2013 #76
pediatricmedic Sep 2013 #51
NoOneMan Sep 2013 #53
leveymg Sep 2013 #54
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #55
questionseverything Sep 2013 #89
defacto7 Sep 2013 #57
Rhiannon12866 Sep 2013 #58
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #59
Rhiannon12866 Sep 2013 #60
DissidentVoice Sep 2013 #61
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #63
Enthusiast Sep 2013 #75
ReRe Sep 2013 #65
Enthusiast Sep 2013 #66
Chiquitita Sep 2013 #67
kelliekat44 Sep 2013 #74
redstatebluegirl Sep 2013 #68
dotymed Sep 2013 #80
Dustlawyer Sep 2013 #82
Iwillnevergiveup Sep 2013 #84
MoonRiver Sep 2013 #88
gopiscrap Oct 2013 #106
llmart Sep 2013 #91
gopiscrap Oct 2013 #102
llmart Oct 2013 #104
gopiscrap Oct 2013 #105
llmart Oct 2013 #107
gopiscrap Oct 2013 #108
Laelth Oct 2013 #103

Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 05:49 PM

1. Great thread, and something to think about when

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 05:55 PM

2. about those voting machines

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #2)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 02:33 PM

90. Time to send bradblog a donation!



But with an inability to see inside computers, Lance's hopes may be impossible to achieve.

"I wish I could tell you all that happens to our vote totals and why. No one can without reviewing the software programming codes," Burks wrote.

"One thing is completely certain," she said. "Arkansas has among the worst election problems with vote counts and totals in the nation and --- with the exception of The BRAD BLOG, VotersUnite.org and NCVoter.net --- has been widely ignored."

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #90)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 03:01 PM

94. love brad and bev of blackboxvoting

this article is one of hundreds maybe thousands that shows ,the politicians "reported" to have won,may not have....

richard charnin has done a great study about the red shift and electronic vote counting...

1988-2008 Unadjusted State and National Exit Poll Database

The Ultimate Smoking Gun that proves Systemic Election Fraud:
1) The Likely Voter Cutoff Model eliminates newly registered Democrats from the LV sub-sample. Kerry had 57-61% of new voters; Obama had 72%.
2) Exit poll precincts are partially selected based on the previous election recorded vote.
3) In the 1988-2008 presidential elections, 226 of 274 exit polls red-shifted to the Republicans. Only about 137 would normally be expected to red-shift. The probability is zero.
4) 126 of the 274 exit polls exceeded the margin of error. Only 14 (5%) would normally be expected. The probability is ZERO.
5) 123 of the 126 exit polls that exceeded the margin of error red-shifted to the Republicans. The probability is ZERO.


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Response to questionseverything (Reply #94)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 05:02 PM

96. Great post

I was pretty much already aware of that, but it's great to see some numbers attached to it, and just to keep telling that story. Obama's victories have lulled people into thinking things are working.

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Response to dreamnightwind (Reply #96)

Sun Sep 22, 2013, 12:25 PM

99. i give obama tons of credit for

"counting" his supporters thru social media but i am sure congressional districts are still being stolen,,,we hear alot about gerrymandering but here in central illinois,we were supposed to be the downstate dem carve out...over parts of 14 counties,including 4 universities our wonderful candidate dr gill lost by 1500 votes...sounds like a wide margin until you realize that is only a 110 vote a county switch

and my city has a company from spain report our votes...that does not seem like democracy to me

here is a case in az that presents a solution i like,scanning paper ballots so any1 can count them


http://www.sweetremedy.tv/fatallyflawed/media/RTA_Fraud_Flyer_3_7_12.pdf

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/08/arizona-election-fraud-pima-county-superior-court-judge-kyle-bryson-affirms-his-own-ruling-and-pushes-case-back-to-the-appellate-court-2458300.html

from last link:


From the perspective of election transparency, here are the facts:


1) Pima County Agrees It Is Easy To Cheat: page 7;


2) The Arizona Attorney General Agrees It Is Easy To Cheat: page 8;


3) The Arizona Secretary of State Agrees It Is Easy To Cheat and State Law Prohibits The SOS From Checking County Computers To Find Out If Counties Are Cheating: page 9;


4) Multiple Expert Examinations Confirm The Irredeemable Flaws In Our Election Computer Software: page 12”;

(Excerpt from statement of facts filed 1/12/12: http://tinyurl.com/LPFiling)

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #99)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 02:01 PM

100. At first glance, I like it

From the first link you posted:

Our primary choice of remedy is independent graphic scanning of all ballots
— scanning of
early ballots as they are tabulated and scanning of precinct ballots at a receiving station after the
polls close. These ballot images would then be posted on a public website starting no earlier than
one hour after the polls close so anyone could count the ballots via the images. Fast turnaround
is necessitated by Arizona’s tough requirement that challenges to an election occur within 5 days
of the final canvas.
This scanning must be publicly observable and done by an “independent” system — not by the
same system that generated the original tally. In addition, the scanning station’s capability should
be limited to “taking pictures of pieces of paper” and not interpreting the meaning of ballot
marks. That way, the graphic scanner cannot be programmed to cheat. Arizona law requires that
voter anonymity be preserved but does not require ballot secrecy. Posting the ballot images
publicly does not violate this requirement and is the best way to achieve election transparency.


I don't know how good this solution is, there could be a problem that I'm not seeing, but it does look like a significant improvement, thanks for bringing it to our attention. It requires a physical ballot that can be scanned, so won't work with electronic ballots, but that's a good thing, electronic ballots basically mean faith-based voting, they're unverifiable, at least in their current form.

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Response to dreamnightwind (Reply #100)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 02:12 PM

101. it is a compromise

paper ballots counted openly and publicly at precinct level would be best but that has been made illegal in az where this lawsuit takes place

it is based on the humbolt county project,where after the scanning citizens counted their votes and found some were "missed" by the scanners

electronic ballots should be illegal except for the disabled and close numbers kept on how many votes are on each machine

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 05:57 PM

3. I agree for the most part, but sadly

 

as long as politicians are allowed to be bought entirely by big business "speaking out" will do very little. Campaign finance reform is what we need, but I don't see us getting it because the system is already rigged.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 06:01 PM

5. That to me is speaking out...cal out for campaign finance reform

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 09:26 AM

79. Why can we give politicians money but we can't give cops money?

Cops don't legislate.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 05:58 PM

4. Well spoken.

 

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Response to furious (Reply #4)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 06:02 PM

6. Thank you

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 06:12 PM

7. Well as Maggie Thatcher famously said.....

*paraphrasing* We're not really a society, just a collection of individuals. That kind of attitude is what has brought about your list. Got to get with the program!

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #7)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 07:27 PM

14. For that statement alone, I think she should have been executed.

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #14)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 09:49 PM

34. If I wasn't against capital punishment , I would agree!

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #34)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 12:46 AM

56. I'm against it, too, as a policy.

Too much to go wrong; just isn't worth it.

But some people still deserve it, even if we owe it to ourselves not to carry it out.

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #56)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 07:39 AM

69. Sometimes we just have to make an exception...........nt

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #69)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 12:08 PM

83. "Sometmes we just have to make an exception".....

Yep sometimes we do. Maggie's dead already, but there are a LOT of Wall Street banksters still out there carrying on her tradition.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 06:29 PM

8. From the 1975 Movie, NETWORK



Arthur Jensen: You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it! Is that clear? You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case! The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU, WILL, ATONE! Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale? You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state, Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do. We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that... perfect world... in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality. One vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock. All necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused. And I have chosen you, Mr. Beale, to preach this evangel.


THIS is the problem. Paddy Chayefsky foresaw what the horrible power of television could become in the hands of corporate rule....what he only marginally paid attention to was how the American public could (and ultimately were) turned into a brainless, seething mob by a media (right wing megaphone) hell bent on serving their corporate masters through creation of a pseudo-political party/movement and, in doing so, come damned close to destroying America.

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Response to ewagner (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 07:42 AM

70. Amazing! nt

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #70)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 03:00 PM

93. Amazingly prescient. And Ned Beatty nailed that speech.

His delivery was spot on. In 1976, he sounded just like the guys that are taking our country from us now. Scary.

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #93)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 03:31 PM

95. It is scary.

And not the faked up WMD in Iraq scary, either.

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Response to ewagner (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 02:58 PM

92. Another line from that movie rings less true today.

We are all mad as hell, but it appears we will be taking it from now on.

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #92)

Sun Sep 22, 2013, 11:13 AM

98. Yep....

I always took from that movie...and the "mad as hell" line in particular...that Dianna and the network saw into the anger and frustration of their audience and tapped into it, first by using Howard Beale as "the mad prophet of the airways" and then filling in with panderings to their superstitions, fears, paranoia and blood-lust.

Our media did all of that....

Starting with the deification of Reagan...the villianization of Clinton...the anointing of Bush II...

I think it's all come to pass in a way we could have never imagined.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 06:30 PM

9. I remember those times too.

They were far from perfect, but we now are far from then...I am not sure where that puts us not, but it ain't a good.
It has been so painful seeing it all go down in one generation.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #9)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 09:51 PM

35. I so agree

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 06:30 PM

10. You still have voting machines? What's wrong with your State?

 

Not a single one here. We are not the only State to get rid of them.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 06:32 PM

11. Public funded elections would help.

Good rant.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #11)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 09:52 PM

36. I fully agree, I belong to a graoup called Washington Public Campaigns

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 06:35 PM

12. We are programed against insurrection.

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 06:45 PM

13. The Obama Haters have lost their Minds and Souls

The GOP voted today to shut our government down if they can not deny American's the right to affordable health care and somehow it is Obama's fault.

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Response to Cryptoad (Reply #13)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:05 PM

17. Exactly. It was not "we," it was the GOP. nt

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 07:46 PM

15. Yes, you remember from the sixties, but that time is real no longer, ...

you have memories of a time with an expectance of 'hope'. Sorry, but that consciousness left with the seventies. Truth is, Reagonomics overwhelmed truth. Now you are left with the consequence.

So Yeah, if you are searching for soul, of country; it was lost a long time ago, and before it was presumed.

If you search for what you can do, do not conform.

Search for truth, question everything, then, compare it to what your government preaches is patriotic. Forget the patriotic, and return to the truth. History proves, your government can not be trusted.

I certainly expect this post to be censored.

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Response to CRH (Reply #15)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:03 PM

16. Nope I agree

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #16)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:08 PM

19. Ten thumbs up to you, ...

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Response to CRH (Reply #19)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 07:45 AM

71. To you, both.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:07 PM

18. An effect of five years of class war

 

I saw a Ferrari in a parking garage today. And all I could think was, "damn I want one of those, even just for a day, and I'll keep working for that day."

I don't know if the guy that owned it (or gal) shilled 10 thousand people out of their homes. Maybe he did. And I'm not saying I don't care if he did. I just think about bettering my family's life. Not necessarily by a one day cash burn, but it might be a perk.

Nevertheless, I hear people yell asshole at the guy in the back of the Rolles indiscriminately.

And I'm not talking about trickle down either. I'm talking about moving up. I'm talking about a lack of focus. About being pissed off at the other guy because he screwing us. And may be his. Hell, maybe they all are. But it's misplaced energy. It's an idling of the spirit.

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #18)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:13 PM

23. And, ... you spirit is measured in material and consumption, ...

or what, Please enlighten us.

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #18)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 09:02 PM

31. I have no envy of the possessions of The Wealthy

 

I just reject their "screw everybody else" mentality (possessed by MOST of The Rich, not all).

Most of all, I do not envy their putrid, greed-charred souls.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:08 PM

20. Take the money out of politics, that is the ONLY way we will become a civil society again.

We are still killing people all over the place, and under the guise of 'humanitarianism' proposing more killing, because anyone who thinks that a 90 day bombing campaign won't kill countless innocent people, is seriously deluding themselves.

But the first step towards restoring some semblance of a civil society to make it a goal to stop the flow of money from heartless, unethical, immoral 'Corporations' into our electoral system. Right now, the whole system is tragic joke.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #20)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 12:25 PM

85. Those tools are the window dressing for a nation that refuses to

call its citizens on the national character flaws of greed and selfishness. These have become desirable traits to use to achieve success in this nation. I think it is the other way around. Our political system is very much a reflection of the people we are and the values deemed desirable by this particular culture in the time we live in. You see this rampant cult of self marketed and rewarded everywhere you look, not just in the political arena.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:09 PM

21. I stand with you, Sir!

I too saw a young leader's call to build a greater nation--then saw him gunned down in a Dallas motorcade.
I saw a young preacher give voice to the hopes and aspirations of millions of black men and women--then saw him gunned down in front of a hotel in Memphis.

I saw another young man call for the building of a more just and equal nation--then saw him gunned down in a Los Angeles hotel.

I saw millions of young people shout out for peace--then saw them beaten in the streets of Chicago, and gunned down on a midwestern college Campus in Kent, Ohio.

But I WILL NOT GIVE UP!! I WILL NOT DISHONOR THEIR SACRIFICES BY SURRENDERING TO THE SOULLESS MACHINE that has brought untold suffering to so many, and untold wealth and power to so few.

I WILL NOT GIVE UP!!

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Response to lastlib (Reply #21)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:11 PM

22. Thank you!

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #22)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:24 PM

26. And as of, ... this part of the thread, thank you for your feelings., ...

They touch home too.

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Response to lastlib (Reply #21)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 11:24 PM

45. thank you +1 million

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Response to lastlib (Reply #21)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 03:47 AM

64. Lastlib, that was beautiful

Me also. Thank you.

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Response to lastlib (Reply #21)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 07:58 AM

72. Very nice post, lastlib!

And I stand with you.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:16 PM

24. Thank you for the poignant analysis. I could not agree more.

As I read Jason's posting last night, I shook my head and muttered "what have we become?" We used to be the shining beacon in the night. We are Americans, damn it. We believed in things that were right and true. We comforted the sick and we fed the hungry. And now... what have we become? Now we vote on taking food out of the mouths of the least fortunate. Now we espouse on the merits of torture in the halls of Congress. What have we become?

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Response to Raster (Reply #24)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:16 PM

25. Thank you

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:33 PM

27. We let "Christian Dominionists" infiltrate our Government. These results were expected.

 

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Response to blkmusclmachine (Reply #27)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 09:54 PM

38. yup that's part of the problem

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Response to blkmusclmachine (Reply #27)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 08:00 AM

73. It's worse.

They're Machiavellian Christian Dominionists.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:33 PM

28. Then you are "remembering" the fantasies in your head.

 

The nation was not repulsed by " children and teenagers been hosed down in the streets of our southern cities", nor did it bother them when it was done in northern cities.

This fantasy/marketing campaign that the Democrats are better for the people on Main Street is nothing but wishful thinking and fantasy.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #28)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 10:49 PM

43. No that is NOT true.

I lived through that time and my memories are not just in my head.
I was in the military from 1960 to 67 and I saw the change...And yes the killing and attacks on black people DID have an impact on the general public, and I saw much of it first hand....I was in Meridian Mississippi in 1964 for the search of the three civil rights workers that were killed there.
And I remind you that at Me Lie massacre many of the soldiers refused to kill women and children when Lt Cally ordered them too...and they finely took some action against him...and that was because we drafted men then, and that kept the sociopaths in check...not like now where they join up to do the killing and like it...and we call them heros...even if they piss on the dead people they just killed.

There HAS been a change in our morals and for the worse.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #43)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 01:40 AM

62. WELL, MY CAPS LOCK WORKS TOO! You are not alone in having lived

 

during those times, and your word is not representative of reality despite your Woody Allen fired fantasies. The facts were, and remain clear. America was not, is not, and likely will not. ever be moved into a better future. They hated all the change that the '60s & '70s brought, that's why they voted for reagan, and all signs since then have pointed to Americans remaining the uptight, constipated, Calvinistic assholes they've been for the foreseeable future.

While you were in the military being fed a consistent diet of bullshit and indoctrination, the rest of us were here watching and living what actually happened.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #62)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 08:40 AM

77. So you think I was living in some kind of bubble because I was in the military?

Well that many be true now but is was not true then...I actually interacted with real people not in the military...and saw some historic events personaly...so dismiss it if you must.

I described no Woody Allen reallity...that time was far from perfect and I saw that too up close and personal, but I know that when it was revealed to the general public many were shocked and felt real emotions, and because of it many things changed...except for those so rooted in their evil ways that nothing will ever change with them...and they are still with us today.
What has changed is that many of those others have lost their soul and now accept the inequality and violence of the world as if it were normal.
Reagan won on the TV and the media, who convinced many that greed was good, and having a soul was a liability...and now they rule us...but it is wrong to think it has always been so just because you have become used to it.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #62)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 09:18 AM

78. Is the 'Woody Allen' comment about Woody being Jewish?

 

Hard for me to even think of fantasy he presents. Hyper realistic neurotic urbanites are what I recall from his films.
I wildly disagree with your passionate pessimism and contempt for your fellow citizens. I reject that poisonous hubris.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #78)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 01:21 PM

86. WTF? All of his films from that era were fish-out-of-water comedies

 

revolving around his nebbish character being thrust into completely bizarre situations where he slowly learns that everything he believes turns out to be wrong, but somehow it all works out in the end as reason overcomes the irrational.

I don't think that has anything to do with his being Jewish. However, they all do portray the myth that most people are good when given a chance.

History shows quite clearly that, given the chance, most people will choose a course that generates short-term gains for themselves regardless of the consequences resulting for anybody else. The good people have always been a small minority, that's why they so frequently end up dead.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #28)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 09:40 AM

81. There we go kind of agreeing, again ...

 

Too many romanticize the 60s; the African-american, Hispanic, GLBT, womanist/feminist, poor communities have a very different memory.

I say "kind of" agree only because Democrats actually, and empirically, ARE better for the people on main street (than republicans ... the only comparator, available).

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #81)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 01:54 PM

87. I don't disagree.

 

I think the difference is that the Democrats do give out small consolation prizes while they are ensuring that the parasite class continues to rule. Civil rights, marriage equality, somewhat equal pay, etc. are all great, but in the end we got them because they have no significant negative impact on the agenda that counts.

The romanticizing of that time is like the old Woodstock joke,
Q: How many people were at Woodstock? A: 500,000.
Q: How many people claim to have been at Woodstock? A: 5,000,000.

The civil rights supporters, the hippies, the beatniks, the feminists, the draft protesters, and so on were always in the minority working against the overwhelming majority that always hates and resists change.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #87)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 09:29 PM

97. Okay ...

 

Full agreement here.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:42 PM

29. Word - but no, WE'RE FINDING IT

spoken from the heart. Heard you.

Power to the people. The power of love.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:44 PM

30. What is with all this 'we' talk here.

I haven't missed a vote in fifty years and maybe we let the scoundrels in because others chose not to vote. That would be a 'they' and not a 'we' declarative.
I already know what I have to do to improve this shit mess. I have allowed my Democratic friends to post signs all over my property to get them elected.
The only 'we' I see is if we get out the vote.
I can sympathize with the point the article makes. But it only addresses the disenfranchised and not the grassroots who are fired up to make a change. I don't post here often so this following story should not be old. (It is else where particularly on Political Wire.)
But a tea bagger got elected to my district by about 50 votes. It could have been just one. We turned that disaster around two years later and elected a progressive Congressman back into my district.
You have to vote dammit. You have to take the ten minutes and vote.

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Response to Whoopdedoo (Reply #30)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 09:20 PM

33. Neither have I but I am speaking about the collective majority

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 09:19 PM

32. The people are speaking, the government isn't listening.


the difference is, they don't have to listen to us to stay in power now. To stop it, we have to get our Wal Mart-type employers to give us all a month off without pay and still feed ourselves and our families while we march and bring the country to a standstill. Except that won't work, because we now have a militarized police force coordinated by Homeland Security and a for-profit prison system that will just love to put 10 million more people in prison and have them work for even less than minimum wage.

And the Occupy Movement was the people speaking out, and the way they were treated serves as an example to the rest of us.

We're not apathetic. We're screwed.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 09:52 PM

37. We've allowed them to conflate being spiteful with being noble. nt

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 10:04 PM

39. Ahhhh. the good old days.


As someone who didn't become politically aware until Ronnie was in the White House I have a different context than you.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 10:12 PM

40. excellent piece

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #40)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 10:14 PM

41. thank you

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 10:49 PM

42. Speak The Truth!!!

To Power!!!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 11:15 PM

44. Screwed, blued, and tattooed.

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 11:25 PM

46. k and r + 1 million

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Response to niyad (Reply #46)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 11:26 PM

47. thank you

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #47)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 11:35 PM

48. I well remember those times, when it seemed we might actually become a nation with a soul.

that dream died bit by bit--from dallas to memphis to ohio, to chicago, and the jungles of a far-away country. not much left now, a small ember--but I keep hoping that we will be able to fan that ember into flame again. as long as I draw breath, will never give up.

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Response to niyad (Reply #48)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 11:45 PM

49. I agree

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 11:57 PM

50. I agree with the sentiment completely.

But honestly, speaking out just doesn't do shit.

The time for action has arrived. (And no, I am not talking about starting violence)

Large scale NATIONAL general strikes are a good starting place. Shut the entire machine down and keep doing it until WE get results, REAL RESULTS, not just more pretty speeches from phony politicians.

Sadly tho, the average soft American probably hasn't got the guts to do it and will likely just bend over and take it as the 1% and their police thugs strip them of EVERYTHING.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #50)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 12:00 AM

52. yup that was whagt I was getting at

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #52)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 08:28 AM

76. Then we stand shoulder to shoulder.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 11:59 PM

51. Hard to put people first when everyone is taking sides

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 12:05 AM

53. But you'll go on living there, working there, funding the mess, etc,

 

and some of you will catch some sleep at night, enough to energize your next outrage at your country. At some point I have to shake my head


Everything looks backwards from expat land

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 12:18 AM

54. We need to do something stunning, purposeful, and shocking but not terrifying or lethal or evil.

We, the great mass of middle-class people, must again become threatening and serious enough that the rich and powerful and global believe they have no choice but to make concessions, now not later, as it was during the time of Franklin Roosevelt.

We have to help shape a crisis that will scare the rich and powerful into giving up some -- much -- of their ill-gotten gains of the last four decades, but not start a civil war. If we provide a pretext for the police state to take charge, we will all lose.

We must demand that they do what is right and hand over what is due, or the fire next time.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #54)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 12:22 AM

55. Exactly

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Response to leveymg (Reply #54)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 02:11 PM

89. how about we supervise our own

elections?

post 2 i linked to a bradblog article that shows voting results swinging wildly (by thousands) from the night of election to about a week later...the election officials can not explain it...so how do we know what was reported is ACCURATE?

the 30 plus year shift to the right corresponds with the introduction of blackbox voting machines and the electronic reporting of votes

before siegleman was prosecuted he had an election "stolen"

////////////////////////

Representative Bob Riley defeated Siegelman in his November 2002 reelection bid by the narrowest margin in Alabama history: approximately 3,000 votes. The result was controversial, as on the night of the election, Siegelman was initially declared the winner by the Associated Press. Later, a voting machine malfunction in a single county, Baldwin County, was claimed to have produced the votes needed to give Siegelman the election. When the malfunction was corrected, Riley emerged the winner. Democratic Party officials objected, stating that the recount had been performed by local Republican election officials after Democratic observers had left the site of the vote counting, thus rendering verification of the recount results impossible. The state's Attorney General, Republican Bill Pryor, affirmed the recounted vote totals, securing Riley's election. Pryor denied requests for a manual recount of the disputed vote in an opinion warning that opening the sealed votes to recount them would be held a criminal offense.[12]

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 01:04 AM

57. I'm with you 100%

I was there too. We are the generation of disappointment.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 01:18 AM

58. K&R! Excellent post, very well said...

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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #58)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 01:21 AM

59. I like your banner the only difference is that

Bush had 8 years to fuck it up and did it all on his own, but Obama trying to clean it up is met with obstruction every step of the way!

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #59)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 01:27 AM

60. Thank you!

I've had it since before the last election, have thought of changing it for exactly the reasons you say. It's totally insane, have trouble even listening to the news sometimes, these days, since it gives me that same sick feeling of disbelief that I had just after the 2004 election. You've articulated the situation perfectly...

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 01:33 AM

61. The cruelty of America

We have become a nation of "sovereign citizens," imbued with the most toxic kind of "individualism."

Those who have controlled the country for over 30 years have instituted rule based on Ayn Rand's "virtue of selfishness," and blatantly attempt to disguise it under the veneer of "the Constitution" and "the Founding Fathers." They have accorded the "Founding Fathers" a near-divinity that they would never have claimed to begin with; men who did not believe that a woman had a right to vote or that a black person was any more than 3/5 of a human being.

We are, in the main, descendants of Europeans (my own roots mainly coming from Alsace-Lorraine, Switzerland and Ulster) who came to this country first to establish a theocracy. We then set on a systemic pattern of genocide of those who were here first. They live today on mostly-squalid "reservations" that we magnanimously "gave" them - shards of a land that was once ALL theirs. We called it "manifest destiny."

We fought a war over whether or not a human being could be thought of as simply chattel - another labour-saving device like a cotton gin. The wounds of that war have never healed, and they never will.

We waited until the last year of "the war to end all wars" to enter - only when too many of our ships had been sunk and Germany was making promises to Mexico of getting old territory back. Then we claim to have been the ones to have turned the tide in that war.

A President after this war said "the business of America is business." Too many of us took that to heart, and it has been the raison d'etre of the so-called "American Capitalist" ever since. The hell with your neighbour. Screw you Jack, I'm all right.

Another President tried...very hard, and had some success. But the Republicans, then as now, bucked him all the way, especially on the creation of a national health plan.

We waited two years to enter another World War, despite the pleas of our principal ally, Winston Churchill, and after American men were already fighting and dying in the air over Britain as members of the "Eagle Squadrons" of the Royal Air Force and Royal Canadian Air Force. We opened the Pandora's Box of the atom to end this war. We took credit for winning this war, too.

Since then, we have had war upon war, none declared, under the guise of "police actions," "stopping aggression," "fighting the war on terror"...and the blood of too many (one was too many) Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines and Coasties spilled for the military-industrial complex that a wise Republican President who had seen too much war in his lifetime warned us against.

Too many of us have come to equate far-right laissez-faire with "patriotism" and even "Americanism" itself. They have been encouraged by verbal bomb-throwers on AM radio and cable TV who are making millions upon stoking the anger of these listeners.

We have become, indeed, a very, very cruel country...and many of us are shockingly proud of that. "The poor are that way because they're lazy and shiftless." "They're all nothing but a bunch of lazy (insert your favourite racist epithet) anyway." "Why the hell should I give MY tax money for someone else's health care?" No...it's "let them die!"

http://www.truth-out.org/archive/item/94040:americas-culture-of-cruelty

http://www.thenation.com/article/163690/cruel-america#

I was raised to be patriotic. I was a Boy Scout, almost an Eagle Scout. I raised my right hand and swore to defend State and Nation in the Air National Guard.

But right now, if I could legally decamp to somewhere like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc., I wouldn't take much persuading.

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Response to DissidentVoice (Reply #61)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 01:46 AM

63. thank you you said it was better than I did!!!

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Response to DissidentVoice (Reply #61)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 08:08 AM

75. Very well done.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 04:02 AM

65. I pray for the biggest Democratic majority in our nation's history....

... in both the House and the Senate! 2014! 2014! 2014!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 07:38 AM

66. Kicked and Recommended!

Well said, gopiscrap.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 07:38 AM

67. If we had the power to change things, what should we do first?

Yes. You are right totally. Let's put people first and not accept the status quo.
Let's insist on getting something done for cripes sake. Who's here that's working on things?
We should have more action threads and DU "To do list". Some smart DUers should be able to show us the "king pin" issues that we should tackle first.
What, in your mind is the issue that, if we had the power to change it, would create the most push in the right direction?

Two ideas:

1. Raise the minimum wage
2. Repeal Citizens United

Activism people. We need to become activists and there are a lot of ways to do it.

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Response to Chiquitita (Reply #67)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 08:01 AM

74. Yes And get at least 10 people who have never voted in state or local elections to VOTE in 2014.

 

It all really begins with state and local elections. These are the people who get to draw the voting districts, who get to determine how much state aid goes to cities and counties, who get to play a major role in sending people to Congress, etc. The GOP is way ahead of us on this and that is why you have the situation in Congress we have now. AS you talk to people about voting use the time to educate them about things they have not heard by listening to FOX and Rush. I think a well-prepared talking-points sheet with questions and answer format that you can hand to them as they walk away is a good tool to use. Or a simple FACT sheet on some of the hot topic issues of SS. ACA, Food Stamps etc. Make up your own passionate FACT sheet and begin handing them out in your own neighborhoods and shopping malls. We have to meet people where they are before they get home and sit and watch FOX or before they get into their cars and turn on Beck and Rush. It's a start.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 07:39 AM

68. Great Thread!

We have become a very mean spirited people. We don't care about our neighbors or anyone for that matter. Food for thought.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 09:32 AM

80. Boots on the ground,

mass revolt is our only hope.
We cannot get a sane, Progressive elected because of the Elite and the uninformed who have stolen America.
I say we who care, return to Occupy, elect our leaders there and proceed to clean this elitist, uneducated , government up.
It will be the largest CIVIL RIGHTS struggle of our history.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 11:42 AM

82. K&R! I am glad to see that COMPLETE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM (CCFR) is gaining traction!

Part of CCFR is Publicly Funded Elections. We can only hope to achieve this by massive demonstrations equivalent to an American Spring. It will also entail finding candidates willing to vote for CCFR. Our current corrupt system of electing politicians allows for legal bribery which takes away our Representative form of government and allows the 1% to run everything.
Once we take back control we must break up the corporate media which uses our airwaves to brain wash us. Break up the Big Banks which use money to control us. We can right this ship but we have to really want to do it! We cannot get caught up in their blame game where they shift the blame they deserve to other innocent parties! We also need to understand that there are no longer Democrats and Republicans in office, but corporate controlled shills who distract us with their petty battles while the job of truly governing goes unfilled!
Glad to see this kind of discussion, we need MORE OF IT!!!!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 12:19 PM

84. Very well said

And I would also include Cesar Chavez as an enlightened leader who sacrificed his body through hunger strikes to bring attention to farm workers mistreatment.

What Elizabeth Warren said last week is so true: "When we fight, we win." So fight we must.

K&R

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 01:59 PM

88. Thank you for this wonderful thread!

It's all true and very well said!

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Response to MoonRiver (Reply #88)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 04:22 PM

106. No, thank you for the affirmation.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 02:41 PM

91. Terrific thread......

with many good analyses and comments. However, my only question to anyone on here would be this - why oh why do many in the middle class in this country vote for these people? Are they really that gullible? Have they really lost all common sense? What responsibility do some in the middle class who continue to vote against their own self interest bear? Is it that we have lost all common sense?

What was the leading news story on my local news two days ago? A reporter outside a mall early in the morning interviewing people who had been standing in line since four in the morning perfectly giddy at the opportunity to buy the latest I-phone, as if their lives depended on it. There has always been advertising but people were more discerning about how they spent their time and money.

I'm not trying to place blame here on the middle class. I just am trying to understand that in my almost 65 years on this earth how we have gotten to this point where the masses are so easily bamboozled by capitalism.

Maybe someone who is more articulate than I am right now can explain it to me. I ask myself this every day. Why can't more people see that if we're going to live in a capitalist society, than we do have some power not to buy the extraneous goods and services that we can do without. It may be the only way to have any power at our middle class level.

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Response to llmart (Reply #91)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 02:12 PM

102. So often in the middle class I have that if it doesn't directly and immediately affect them

they don't care. Also TPTB have us where they want us...for the vast majority we have just enough to sustain us (food, housing, clothing) to forstall a riot, but also have us in a place where almost all of us are one to 3 paychecks from being on the street. To me the only thing that is going to change our apathy is either a depression or a revolution.

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #102)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 03:28 PM

104. Yes, I get that......

but even when it directly affects them and their loved ones they feel powerless to do anything about it. But there is strength in numbers and we are the majority.

I came of age in the 60's when we saw the power of numbers and the power of dissent, so why can't we see it now? Is there a "straw that breaks the camel's back" moment we need to live through before we'll stand up and fight for what's right once again? If we didn't in 2008 when we found out exactly how crooked bankers were and how they deliberately destroyed our economy (the closest thing to a depression most of us have lived through), then what will it take? Have people already forgotten the Enron scandal where people lost jobs and pensions?

By the way, I'm probably lame about this, but what does TPTB mean???

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Response to llmart (Reply #104)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 04:21 PM

105. oops you're not lame TPTB means

the powers that be

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #105)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 04:23 PM

107. Thanks....

They used to have a place on DU where they explained all the acronyms that are used, but I don't know if they still have that and I'm too lazy to look for it

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Response to llmart (Reply #107)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 04:26 PM

108. Not a problem

I happen to have a teenager at home and half the time she talks in acronyms otherwise I wouldn't know what it meant either.

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Response to llmart (Reply #91)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 02:15 PM

103. Western Civilization went through a huge transition in the 20th century.

The modern Republican party is the result of that change. Any analysis of the present that ignores this change is inherently flawed.

-Laelth

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