"it presents a real danger to the Republican future: will give the Democrats a lock..."

[Cerridwen]

The real reason they hate and fight the ACA even to the brink of economic collapse.

No, I don't think they'll raise the debt ceiling. I pray, and I don't normally pray, that I am wrong.

There is a long and sordid history of repubs against healthcare for the US.

From page 2 of the timeline quoted and linked below.

December 2, 1993 - Leading conservative operative William Kristol privately circulates a strategy document to Republicans in Congress. Kristol writes that congressional Republicans should work to "kill" -- not amend -- the Clinton plan because it presents a real danger to the Republican future: Its passage will give the Democrats a lock on the crucial middle-class vote and revive the reputation of the party. Nearly a full year before Republicans will unite behind the "Contract With America," Kristol has provided the rationale and the steel for them to achieve their aims of winning control of Congress and becoming America's majority party. Killing health care will serve both ends. The timing of the memo dovetails with a growing private consensus among Republicans that all-out opposition to the Clinton plan is in their best political interest. Until the memo surfaces, most opponents prefer behind-the-scenes warfare largely shielded from public view. The boldness of Kristol's strategy signals a new turn in the battle. Not only is it politically acceptable to criticize the Clinton plan on policy grounds, it is also politically advantageous. By the end of 1993, blocking reform poses little risk as the public becomes increasingly fearful of what it has heard about the Clinton plan.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/may96/background/health_debate_page2.html

I highly recommend reading the entire timeline. There are so many parallels to today. It is also, in my opinion, the origin of the deluded and extreme hatred of the Clintons and of Hillary specifically. Had you lived through those times and remember, you might agree.

[Cerridwen]

1. "What's past is prologue"

"What’s past is prologue" is a quotation by William Shakespeare from his play The Tempest.

[cui bono]

2. k n r

[Cerridwen]

3. Thank you. I like your sig line.

What if that is what it's all about?

[gopiscrap]

4. Interesting

[freshwest]

5. Don't forget the ACA also registers people to vote. They can't have that!

They will torture this nation to keep power.

[gopiscrap]

7. Exactly

[Cerridwen]

6. It is.

Those of us who lived through a very similar scenario, recognize a lot of what is happening now.

I hope "Harry and Louise" finally have affordable health insurance and that it leads to affordable health care and a healthy retirement for them. The shmucks.

[freshwest]

8. Their retirement had better not depend on SS, if recent reports run true. Depressing stuff.

[Cerridwen]

9. If you read the timeline at the link in my OP,

you'll see the repubs were setting up then to go after Medicare and SS.

This is not all recent, teabagger shit. This is long time and vast, right wing conspiracy.

I have the old newtie boy's pac documents floating around somewhere; they were dated early 90s I think. They had the entire fucking plan laid out from infiltrating local offices and judiciary and policy level positions and higher education, too if I remember correctly. They had/have talking points and words to use and words not to use to frame the message and lie their collective asses off.

[freshwest]

10. I read the timeline, not disputing your OP. Talking about the debt ceiling.

But I used to have clippings from the 1950s of their plans and lived around Birchers, etc. I know what they've been up to for years, how they think, and what they do.

Now they may have their dream come true, which they could never get the votes to do, so they are going to try to burn the house down. Preferably with minorities, the elderly, disabled and poor in it.

They are not living in the same economy that most of us are, as I've said for years and are not as dependent on government as some may think. It is the rural and urban difference.

They didn't burn out and lynch the blacks, brown, natives and poor whites out of the country 'just' for kicks, but to preserve a'way of life' that included their maintaing possession of natural resources. The newer generation did a Romney a long time ago, using more complex methods. But the ends turn out to be the same, robbing and excluding others from the chance to get up again.

In my mind, the 'vast rightwing conspiracy' has been in place since the country was founded, but their class and views were largely ignored until they saw the time was right for the biggest killing of all.

Obama has been facing up to these killer guys since Day One. They are not kidding about this, and are not stupid. I have tried to warn people that they have 'good' reasons to them, for what they do, they are not
'voting against their own interests' at all.

They have been extorting us all for longer than PBO has been in office. They nearly made their move in 2008; then 2009; and before that, 2000 and 1979. If we want to leave 1963 out. But as I said, it goes back to the founding of the nation. We have always had them with us geographically working against us from within.

It's been a dance to keep them from doing what they want as they really do own this country, with a lot of accomplices in the middle and working class, many who are unconcerned with anything that doesn't give them a paycheck. This is normal human behavior but intensely destructive.

And now the music at the dance is about to stop.

[Cerridwen]

12. Yessss! You get it. Now, I must apologize.

I did not mean to imply you hadn't read the link. If it came across that way, I'm sorry. I meant to direct you to the information about Medicare and SS and their plans.

Now.

Yessss! You get it.

Since the beginning of this country that faction has existed and has made attempts along the way; with varying degrees of success. I've been reading through the debates of the Continental and Congressional Congresses and some of the journals and documents of that time. You can see it there as well. (the generic you)

This attempt appears to have more of a chance of succeeding. Perhaps it has appeared so to previous generations. I'm not sure. I just know that I'm living through this attempt.

It is horrifying.

[freshwest]

14. GMTA. Thom Hartmann's take the same as ours, posted today:

Thom Hartmann: The GOP is Terrified & They're Going to Lose

He posted this morning in Video & Multimedia:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=149615

And here we are.

[Cerridwen]

15. Cool. Thanks for bringing that over to

this thread.

I had to watch it first or I would have replied sooner.

[YoungDemCA]

11. +100000. People like government programs that they benefit from...

The GOP understands this, but they've spent several decades demonizing government programs, so to admit that government works would be to admit defeat, and would be the end of them politically.

[Cerridwen]

13. They, and their puppet masters, have known it for a long time.

I think they're running scared. That gives me no pleasure. Wounded and cornered animals are beyond dangerous.

As I noted above in another reply, perhaps previous generations felt this way. I don't know. I just know I live during this latest monstrosity.