Am I the only one who is terrified?

[redstatebluegirl]

We are not rich people, we are more able to pay our bills than most people, and we are grateful for that but for the most part live paycheck to paycheck. We have taken care of elderly parents which took a toll on our savings. We both had student loans that took a big chunk of our money for a long time. We still have my husband's retirement which is in the market and bonds but I am terrified what all of this will do to that nest egg we have sacrificed to save.

I am not working due to health issues, but am thinking of trying to find something just to give us more of a cushion. My doctor is not real pleased but I have to do what I have to do.

You know 20 years ago we would be considered very upper middle class, now we feel like we are lower middle class if that. We are both educated but it doesn't seem to matter anymore. Every time I go to the grocery store it costs more than the last time. Gas costs more, home repairs everything.

This debt ceiling thing scare the crap out of me, I am afraid to lose what little we have accumulated. Am I alone in this feeling? I know there are people in much worse shape, but we are a couple of paychecks away from being in pretty terrible shape.

I want to scream at everyone concerned, this is not a game it is our lives!

[gopiscrap]

1. Yes I am quite concerned

[Swede Atlanta]

114. I hope that, despite the public announcements, the President is willing to

take off the gloves against the traitors among us that should be hanged at sunrise (the entire puke delegation in the House and Ted Cruz).......

He needs to absolutely use the Constitutional option which, while never tried, is a definite option for him.

[gopiscrap]

129. Me too

[Chaco Dundee]

157. yes

There is no argument with that assumption.

[el_bryanto]

2. I don't think you are alone by any means.

We do get wrapped up in the horse race aspect - even here at DU sometimes. Because it is a game to some people, but it's helpful to be reminded the consequences of that game.

Bryant

[shenmue]

3. Not the only one

So many are living paycheck to paycheck. Me included.

[lonestarnot]

4. Expect nothing, then one is never disappointed. It's just stuff, our lives are just stuff

apparently. I will not go willingly.

[Zorra]

27. "The most dangerous creation of any society is the person who has nothing to lose".

James A. Baldwin

[lonestarnot]

29. How many have pigliCONs put into that position?

How dangerous are we?

[magical thyme]

5. everybody is afraid. that is their goal. that's what makes the GOP terrorists.

They are behaving like terrorists. They want us to capitulate to their demands out of fear of losing whatever.

If we give in to these demands, they will demand more and it will never stop. In that situation then we will lose everything.

I'm hopeful that if push comes to shove, President Obama will pull out the 14th amendment and simply declare the debt ceiling raised by executive order.

He has not ruled it out. He has stated he doesn't believe he has that authority, but he hasn't stated why he doesn't believe he has that authority and certainly based on the last presidency there is nothing to stop him from claiming that authority.

The congress still has the authority to make the budget and appropriate money. But by claiming the authority to actually pay the bills, the President will balance that power out and prevent congress from running up debt and then defaulting, as the GOP is trying to do now.

Kind of like saying that one business partner does the budgeting, but another partner writes the checks to pay the bills, to make sure those bills get paid and the business doesn't get re-possessed...

[meadowlark5]

18. This is what I think

I think the rethug terrorists know that Obama can't totally be backed against the wall with this. I hope he'll invoke the 14th amendment if necessary and cut those assholes off at the knees. They'll still have their govt shutdown, but at least the country won't default and the economy tank and the market not adversely effect peoples investments and retirement accts. At least not too much.

They are terrorists, running around on all the morning shows today inciting fear and urgency. I wish there was a way to charge them with treason, at least the 80 who signed the letter to shutdown the govt. Plus Cruz. If this were reversed, Darryl Issa would be having hearing after hearing looking for evidence of treason. I wish the dems would do the same.

[underthematrix]

33. I think PBO plans to invoke 14.4 at 12:01 am on 10/17

I think Boehner already knows this, which explains why he has dug in.

[Lobo27]

46. Question if the president invoked the 14th...

Would it be open to court rulings etc??? Like could someone sue him?

[magical thyme]

102. I expect it could go to the supreme court

to interpret the meaning of the clause.

It wasn't added in there for no reason. It doesn't specify who has authority to execute it, congress or the President. Just states the the US will always pay its bills.

[kelly1mm]

106. And that is why using the 14th Amendment and/or a trillion $ coin will not be a full solution.

The reason, financially, we don't want to default is that it would damage world investor opinion on us paying our debt instruments, and thus would need an additional risk premium (read higher interest rates). A questionable action done by executive action without congressional authorization and the ensuing legal battle would likewise mandate an additional risk premium.

So, bottom line is this - right now with US borrowing costs at about 2% (historically low), we pay about 360 billion per year in interest payments or about 10% of government revenue. It it goes to 4% (normalish) then 20% of revenue goes to interest. 6% (a bit high but has been higher) would be 30% of revenue to interest. So, if it goes to 6%, we would have to make a 20% cut in expenditures just to be where we are now.

[magical thyme]

145. it will be a full solution once it all falls out....

and that is the point. Let them challenge it and get the pain over with. Then they can never pull this shit again.

[Swede Atlanta]

116. It is not a question of whether it "could go" to the SCOTUS...

Definitely the puke party would immediately challenge the action in federal court. It is likely this would be expedited to sit on the SC docket.

Personally I have no idea how this could go. The language seems plain enough to suggest that the President, as head of the Executive Branch, must ensure that the "credit of the US is not questioned" would include raising the debt ceiling if necessary. But we don't know and we have a conservative majority on the Court. While usually you would expect them to vote for business (i.e. increasing the debt limit) to protect the vested interests of the 1%, they are also Repukes which could mean they will do what is needed to tow the partly line.

[magical thyme]

126. I think they are more the party of the 1% than the party of the teabaggers

or at least enough of them to see that giving that power to the President puts a check on congress from hijacking the country.

Giving that power to congress puts too much power in one place. It is only by splitting the budget power -- by giving congress the power to make the budget and somebody else the power to pay the bills -- that you create checks and balances.

[merrily]

148. The question is whether the case would be dismissed.

If the House takes a vote authorizing someone to sue on behalf of the House, I think there would be standing to sue. The question is whether or not the SCOTUS would dismiss because the issue is "a political question."

I don't think anyone can say for certain how that issue would come out.

There is a wiki on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_question

You could click on each case name given and read the wiki of each case.

I did that and my opinion is that it might depend on which Justices had indigestion that day and how many.

[LukeFL]

136. I hope so too

[tofuandbeer]

42. I wonder if this would be impeachable.

Maybe that's what Bohner (or, should I say the Koch Brothers) are waiting for.

[JDPriestly]

54. Why would it be impeachable?

Could the House impeach the president simply because the president interprets his duties under the Constitution differently than the majority in the House does?

Yes. They could. Impeach simply refers to the process of trying a person.

But there would be no grounds for convicting the president because the dispute would not be about a crime or misdemeanor but about a conflict in the interpretation of the presidents' duties under the Constitution.

In fact, the Constitution requires the House, Senate and president combined to either present a budget that pays all debts or raise the debt ceiling or figure out some other way to pay the country's debts. So, if the debts aren't paid and no budget is passed, they are all in derelict of duty, and we have a constitutional crisis. The fact is that the Constitution requires the debts to be paid, states the budget has to originate in the House and then be passed with the accord of the executive, the Senate and the House, but does not specify who has to make sure the bills are all paid. Arguably it falls to the House, Senate and president to agree to a budget and to agree to find the money to fund the budget and then to the president to pay the bills.

The House is only one part of that triumvirate. Even if the Republicans have a majority in the House, they are in the minority of the government and should give way.

[Enthusiast]

138. Your argument sounds very reasonable to me.

Great post.

[ancianita]

147. Thanks for the clarity. Which puts in sharp focus this cheap minority party drama.

[merrily]

149. I agree that conviction is unlikely because a 2/3 Senate vote is not possible.

n fact, the Constitution requires the House, Senate and president combined to either present a budget that pays all debts or raise the debt ceiling or figure out some other way to pay the country's debts.

Despite what some TV pundits say, what Section 4 (and Section 5) of the Fourteenth Amendment mean outside the context in which they were written is far from well-settled.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

158. thanks!! so clear

Some of us don't remember our HS civics class!

[rdking647]

58. even if it was

do you think there a chance in hell the senate would convict?

[tofuandbeer]

65. Yeah, I didn't think the GOP would accomplish it, but I know they've been

looking long and hard for a way to get the process started.
I was just throwing it out there, and I'm not familiar with the law, so certainly stand to look stupid for suggesting it.

[Politicalboi]

73. If it can be dragged into the 2014 election

Hopefully there won't be as many GOP senators and congress to deal with. This way the people's majority can decide if Obama should be impeached by the election.

[tavalon]

120. Nope

[markpkessinger]

69. "Impeachable" is whatever a majority of the House decides is impeachable . . .

. . . and I have no doubt that if President Obama claims authority under the 14th Amendment, the House will vote to impeach. But they need a 2/3 vote in a Senate trial for the impeachment to be successful, and they don't have the votes to do it. That is precisely why the President should go ahead and do it!

[sendero]

94. I hope the Repugs think it is .

... because if they play the impeachment card they are toast.

[go west young man]

135. I agree....

if it all falls that way then the Republicans will be hoisted by their own petard and it's possible we may seem them finally go the way of the dinosaur within the next few years. One can only hope!

[Enthusiast]

139. They will look like even greater fools.

But not like greater fools than they actually are.

[DearAbby]

45. I would fucking dare the Teahadists to try and Impeach Obama

for using it. It's what they really want to do. Would they be that crazy?

[burnsei sensei]

144. They crossed the line from terrorists to traitors

when they cut food stamps such that 7 million people are arbitrarily off the rolls.
To be a traitor in the U.S. is to make war on the American people. In the shutdown, the grandstanding, and in their assault on the poor, the GOP is guilty of nothing less than treason.

[leveymg]

6. Thank you. You speak for many of us out here.

My spouse has commented that this is a bit like it was for the Russians twenty years ago watching the Soviet Union collapse.

[redstatebluegirl]

8. I think what bothers me the most is

I don't think that the people in Washington, either side, cares a lick what happens to all of us. They are playing a game, see who's d... is biggest. I hope you are wrong but you might not be. Makes me so sad that we have come to this. I blame the RW media for a lot of this, but the big money behind the media is like the wizard in wizard of oz, don't look behind the curtain.

[arely staircase]

11. actually the corporations and money people are freaking out too

this is the work of the big time crazies who they let take over their party. there is no "either side" to this.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

84. I hope they are placing calls to Boehner, Cantor, McConnell

and threatening to refuse to write any more checks to their re-elections next year if they keep on threatening to default- and they're ALL up for re-election too!

[Bluenorthwest]

12. I blame the Republicans. This 'both sides' crap just does not apply in this case.

I am beyond sick of hearing that. Really beyond sick of of it. I don't blame Democrats and the press and then Republicans, I blame Republicans.

[dionysus]

134. +1

[Cha]

95. That's where we differ.. I know that President Obama and his Admin

care very much what happens to people out here in the Country. That's why I'm concerned but not as worried as I would be if I thought nobody gave a shit.

[sheshe2]

111. I love your new avatar, Cha!

[Cha]

113. Hey sheshe! Thought I'd

sport it for awhile in support during our crisis of Government.

What do you think about the Obama Admin caring about the People out here who are suffering and those who will suffer if they don't raise the Debt Ceiling?

[sheshe2]

115. The Admin, they are doing everything in there power to stop this Cha.

The fear and uncertainty, it's starting to trickle into the economy now. I can see it and I am damn sure that I will start feeling it.

The repukes wish to bring this country to her knees.

[Cha]

118. Since the teaparty rephucks won't do it unless the ACA Law of the land is

changed.. I'm hoping Pres Obama does it with this 14th Amendment I keep seeing referred to.

"Other prominent Democrats, including former President Bill Clinton and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), have advocated the idea as well. They point to Section 4 of the 14th Amendment, which states: “The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payments of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.” Since the "public debt" cannot be questioned, then, Democrats argue, the debt ceiling itself could be seen as unconstitutional."

Much more..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/05/14th-amendment-debt-ceiling_n_4050428.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

[sheshe2]

122. I have read some pros and cons on using the 14th.

It would defiantly face judicial challenge.

I trust PBO to find the right answers.

[tavalon]

121. Isn't it fun to watch the boys playing on the playground?

Not.

[maryellen99]

7. I am very concerned as well nt

[polichick]

9. Americans would be better off if we all started screaming! k&r

[redstatebluegirl]

10. I have been calling all my reps and senators

every single day! What else can we do, should we march on Washington. I hate to sound dramatic, but I would drive the 2 days to get there if I thought it would matter at all.

[polichick]

14. I was thinking that maybe people should start visiting those gerrymandered...

Tea party districts in huge numbers - put the blame where it belongs.

But we also have to hold the prez responsible for things like the new trade bill he's pushing. Big Ed will cover that this week on his show.

[Frustratedlady]

15. We'd all need to carry pitchforks. I doubt that would go over too big.

We're past the point of clever signs, stupid outfits and props...the Tea Party pretty much ruined that ploy.

Back to pitchforks and torches.

We're doomed.

[Jamastiene]

96. Capitol police would shoot us dead if we carried anything even remotely resembling

pitchforks or torches, much less both, unfortunately.

[Marrah_G]

13. Everyday scares the hell out of me.

Like alot of people, I live paycheck to paycheck, no retirement, no savings. Today I realized we are out of toilet paper and don't get paid until Tuesday.....joy. For me, the debt ceiling thing is so far removed from what I have to worry about that don't really think about it. I know I should, but I just can't.

My small light at the end of the tunnel is that hopefully as soon as my kids are out on their own and my guys kid is self sufficient, we are moving to VT and with the two of us, things will be alot easier.

[CrispyQ]

24. This statement of yours, I think is a reality for too many Americans.

For me, the debt ceiling thing is so far removed from what I have to worry about that don't really think about it. I know I should, but I just can't.

And frankly, they don't care. They are probably happy you are too overwhelmed to pay close attention to what's going on. They are evil bastards, every one. I'm re-evaluating every repub I know, because, seriously, if they can still support this party after all this shit, then I have serious doubts about their character.

[Marrah_G]

26. I agree

They don't want us to have time to think about these things, or the ability to take a few days off and travel to DC to protest. As long as we are struggling to stay afloat... they can keep robbing the country blind.

[840high]

98. Check to check is how

I exist. I understand.

[BelgianMadCow]

141. Marrah

is all

[Triana]

16. You are not alone.

I think too many people don't even realize the entire scope of our current situation nationally. They think it's a game. But millions of people's lives are hanging in the balance, waiting to see what the Tea Party Terrorists are going to do to 'we the people' next.

[Metro135]

17. I'm terrified as well

Every day I read more stories about the shutdown and I think, has this country gone completely insane? Are these nut cases really going to refuse to raise the debt ceiling? Am I really seeing screenshots from Sean Insanity's show with the headline "The Obama Shutdown"? (!!!) Is this just a nightmare and will I wake up?

[Cryptoad]

19. We got this!!!!!

[SammyWinstonJack]

31. Really? Just who is 'we'?

[Cryptoad]

70. We be the Democratic Party,,,,,,, nt

[redstatebluegirl]

20. I have been on DU more the past few weeks trying to make sense of all of this.

With all of the hollering, name calling whatever, I just wanted to put a reality check on here. This is my life, this is how it is impacting me. Yes, it feels like terrorism, I have not felt like this since 9/11 when I was living in St. Louis and drove home from work to see all of the planes parked at the airport and feeling so scared I could not sleep waiting for what they would do to us next.

To think, these terrorist work for us..how sad!

[oldandhappy]

21. You are not alone

I think the tremendous fear in the culture is the reason for the tremendous anger and hence so much bully behavior. I send you cyber best wishes and a smile and a hug.

[redstatebluegirl]

22. I could use one, thanks!

I find the DU community to be one I feel comfortable being myself. At first not so much, but now I do. I think people accept you for who you are warts, fears and all.

[Voice for Peace]

25. It is a crazy scary time all over.

I'm also very glad for this community. You didn't ask
for advice but don't overwhelm yourself with information
about what's going on. Things are changing moment to
moment and won't necessarily change for the worse.
Keep a focus on hope. There is hope innate in every one
of us, we just need to call on it. That's the source of
human strength, frankly. Not our fear or anger.

I'm reminded always that there aren't any guarantees
in life, on the outside or in the world around us. We
can't really ever count on anything. Stuff changes, it
goes up and down and back up and back down again.

So I look to the steadiness of Nature for her wisdom.
Keep focused on the simple things right in front of me.
Seek out hope inside of me, share that.

You are definitely not alone.

[awoke_in_2003]

23. I make $70k a year...

I don't live extravagantly. My house loan (11 years into a 15 year note) was just $120k. My truck is a 2005, and my motorcycle (primary work vehicle to save fuel) is an 83 HD. I understand the feeling of knowing you are a few weeks from disaster. My only true "wealth", thanks to a few years with crappy insurance and a sick wife, is the equity on my house. If everything crashes that wont be worth squat. On the bright side, the bank would get the house back cheap The rich walk through shit and keep coming out smelling like roses.

[mnhtnbb]

28. You are not alone.

Many people figured out, very quickly, that this is not about
the ACA, it is about a small group of very well funded individuals
hijacking the government of the US. The question is, will
Boehner--and any other Repubs not beholden to Tea Party money--
step up and do the right thing, or will it fall to the Attorney General
to charge these crazy terrorists--and that's what they are--
with appropriate crimes that remove them from office.
Remember, they all took an Oath of Office to support and
defend The Constitution of the United States. Their actions
do not jive with that oath.

Until then, I don't know what we, the people, can do, other than
write our Representatives (which I have done) and The President
(which I did http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251327537),
write LTTE, pass along the truth (especially to those who call
themselves apolitical and haven't been propagandized for years
by Fox News and right wing radio because they are a lost cause)
and maybe even organize a group of like minded friends to get
out and stand on a street corner with signs expressing the truth
like the brave folks in Alamogordo, NM http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3791753

Hang in there. You are definitely not alone.

[Kermitt Gribble]

30. Welcome to corporate America.

You are not alone in this feeling. They want us to live paycheck to paycheck so we are terrified of losing our jobs. That way, we'll be obedient little worker bees.

[factsarenotfair]

32. I'm beyond terrified.

[thatgemguy]

34. We're with you girl...

My wife and I keep losing ground too. I was hurt in 2003, and endured a few years of treatments and surgeries. I applied for SS Disability in 2006, it was 2009 before I could get in front of judge to appeal my case, finally I began receiving benefits late 2009.

My wife had a job during this time and she supported the household. She was laid off from her job in February of 2012, we live in an area with high unemployment and she has been unable to find another job.

Unemployment benefits gone, we now make do with what meager benefits I receive. Our 2004 model car has 150,000 miles on it, we live in an old house in the country that we bought for 36,000. Our heating oil bill goes up every year, while we set our thermostat lower.

I applied for assistance, only to be told that we make too much money to get anything, we do qualify for $15 a month in food stamps, though.

I'll be 60 in December, and this is the worst shape I've seen this country in my life. My first job, paid $65 for a 40 hour week. Looking back, I'm amazed how far those dollars went. My first apartment was $125 monthly, furnished with utilities included.

Our problem isn't that things cost too much, but rather that we are being paid too little for our work.

[underthematrix]

35. In 2014 let's see how many fail to the polls

and let's see how many of them vote Republican

[Faygo Kid]

36. The debt ceiling default is coming - Cruz would have it no other way

He and his Tea Party cronies are going to bring the economy down in shambles.

Kiss any savings or 401k goodbye. I'm in my 60s, still working - and also terrified.

[CrispyQ]

55. You are right, they want it all. Every last dime.

No hot lunches for our kids, no meals on wheels for our seniors, but plenty of martini lunches for the 1%.


I have dumb fucks in my family who will still vote repub.

[LondonReign2]

87. You only have to kiss them goodbye if you sell

Yes, on paper the value will drop if the market drops, but unless you sell them you will be fine in the long run. Once this latest Republican-caused crisis ends there will be a bounce back.

[joanbarnes]

37. I agree. Can't imagine how terrifying to have no safety net at all........

But I think we are the ones 'they' are after. The richest 1% want IT ALL. No small pension or emergency fund for the middle class. They want what we save and sacrifice for.

[redstatebluegirl]

38. Why can't these backward uneducated people who elect these

idiots see that they are hurting themselves? I know they use cultural tactics to scare them, like gay marriage, abortion, black president all of that but I don't get it.

[maryellen99]

68. I think it is not only cultural issues

I also think they feel they can relate to them and I also call them "1% wannabes"

[OldEurope]

39. I found this

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/06/tea_party_radicalism_is_misunderstood_meet_the_newest_right/

I'm sorry, cannot find the original DU-post providing this. But I thought this was an important matter.

[AAO]

40. If the pubs do that the stock market will take a big hit

But after dems take back control of the house and get 60 votes in the senate, things will start to get done under President Warren and the market will SKYROCKET!

[kentuck]

41. Be brave.

Surrender is not an option. We have to steel ourselves for the battle.

[RebelOne]

43. I am also terrified.

My sole source of income is my Social Security and if we hit the debt ceiling deadline, SS checks will be delayed. My next check is due on the 16th and I fear it may be my last check for a while.

[freshwest]

80. I hear you, RebelOne. So many in the same boat, tens of millions. The stress would kill many quick.

It's what they want. They want us gone.



I found this gleeful comment by a libertarian republican a few days ago, and will only quote snippets, as I can't link this here. It's just how warped they are:

Like the bankruptcy of Detroit, this is a very good thing! The fading away of the old and the beginning of the new - there is no doubt of that!

Obviously the years of suffering due to libertarian policy and capitalism weren't important...

Shut the government down for good! Who needs them????

Obviously, a landed, wealthy white male doesn't, as us lesser mortals need, the government to uphold our rights to protect us from religious zealots and regulate the hounds of unbridled predators like Romney...

...the "real billionaires and trillionaires" of the world are coming together now - bypassing the traditional banking system, and starting their own thing!

And those billionaires and trillionaires have always been so generous to people and the planet, I'm sure nothing can do wrong with letting them have complete control over our lives...

...equities and the production of the "production" systems.

The 'producer' class that deserve anything they want.The rest of us are just 'parasites' existing at their leisure...

...the "old" system will be saddled with the debt, and fade away.

Those debts in the old system are pension liabilities. And those who depend on them are just supposd to fade away...

The new system will be able to expand unhindered.

The one run by plutocrats and oligarches. Don't t hinder them in their work to expand their wealth over our dead bodies...

That is what one sees here! The fading away of the old and the beginning of the new! It's a very exciting and fulfilling thing!

Said the raptor as he devoured his prey alive, how exciting and tasty for him...

Yes, I am exceedingly worried. The fruits of my work that were set aside for me, my friends and family mean everything to me.

RebelOne.

[kestrel91316]

44. No. I just had my worst week ever at my clinic.

NO ONE is spending any money right now. They are afraid the repukes will crash everything and they will lose all income. SOON.

[redstatebluegirl]

47. We have really pulled in the spending.

I don't know what kind of clinic you have but we have 3 dogs, one is very old and needs meds and for the first time in my life I had to think about it before getting them refilled.

[Lobo27]

48. In the late 90's early 2000's my father...

Was making 55k a year as a welder/shop foreman. Now still in the position he is make 27-29k. Some bullshit if ask me.

[graywarrior]

49. Scared here, too.

Have trouble working due to health issues also, but need to find something just to have enough to pay bills. I've been applying to a lot of different jobs, but standing for more than a half hour kills me. Not sure what I'm gonna do, but I keep trying.

[redstatebluegirl]

52. Hugs to you, I know how that feels.

[maui902]

50. No, you are not alone. And what is happening is extremely unfair.

The uncertainty alone is causing an economic slowdown. If there is a default, it could get very bad. And for what? Even the Republicans in the House aren't on the same page regarding what it is that would satisfy them. I am making calls and writing letters to members of Congress, even those who don't represent me; it is about the only thing we can do now.

[AAO]

60. This is an attempt to overthrow our democratic system.

They should be dealt with harshly.

[BlueToTheBone]

51. Call your rep's office. Especially since they're red.

Tell them your concerns.

I am going to organize a petition and group visit to our red puke. We may be able to get coverage and try and get it to go viral. We'll see what happens. If too many people are asleep or scared into inaction, it may not come to anything. For me, the best way to fight the fear is to do something. Since you're not able to work right now, maybe you could use your small amount of energy this way. In the end, it might be more profitable than a job. Of course, it is more important not to get angry. Your health cannot take it. So calm your self before and after each call. Call your local dem party (they may have a website) and see if they are arranging calls to the rep and join in with them. (Safety in numbers and all that.)

But, yes, I feel your fear deep inside myself. My beloved and I are now the aging ones and everything you said is on our plates as well as the body problem thing. Good luck to us all!

[oxymoron]

53. K&R

[dickthegrouch]

56. Certainly not alone

I'm 56 and just finished 4th month of unemployment. Live in Silicon valley, have experience as a software development manager and Senior manager and even Director, and I can't even get call backs, far less interviews. All the posted jobs are way below my target salary (which I've already reduced, again )

Due to a three year unemployment stint 10 years ago, I cannot afford another financial hit. As it is I think I'll need to work until I'm 70 to recover sufficiently from the previous stint to retire with any degree of comfort or cushion.

Thankfully I followed all the advice, built up a six month cushion and I'm still on track with that. But I need a job that will continue to pay the mortgage and all the other obligations as soon as possible.

[noiretextatique]

76. sounds like my life

Except I am an Accountant. I used to a Senior one, but now I am doing clerk-level work. I am going to take a 10k paycut to do crap work I was doing 20 years ago, just so can feel more secure. I have been temping for a year, but I am tired of not knowing if I will have work...really income. I am 54, and seriously considering moving to Guatemala. I can do taxes for expats.

[rdking647]

57. im also scared

ive taken steps to protect my portfolio. there is still time to protect yourself but you have to act quickly. id be happy to give you some advise on ways to protect yourself via pm is you contact me (i spend 20+ years on the trading floor trading bond options)

[dkf]

59. We are going to go through this on an annual basis for years to come. Better get used to it.

[redstatebluegirl]

62. Gee thanks....

[dkf]

63. I've been jumping at every one of these incidents for the last 4 years since Lehman.

I'm emotionally drained and no longer capable of the full freak out.

[handmade34]

61. ...

YES! "this is not a game it is our lives!"

I have had too much trauma in my life to be terrified of the GOP terrorism... but I understand what you are feeling...

I am much more angry than scared right now, but a default of the debt would mean no money coming into our house right now!!


We all need to know we are in this together and somehow find ways to help each other... at all times but especially times like this

[tavalon]

123. Angry is the appropriate response

They are playing with our lives like we are tiddlywinks. We are not tiddlywinks.

[duhneece]

64. Creativity is the antidote to fear

Creative activism, create a dance, draw with some youth, read, "Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined" by Steven Pinker, write a poem, go outside for a walk...

[tavalon]

124. Join with your neighbor. Create a neighborly co-op

Yeah, it's more work than hitting the local malwart, but worth it. We need to link hands, become, ironic as it sounds, Citizens United.

[duhneece]

160. You are so right....ORGANIZE

It's amazing how much you can influence others when you reach out, share how you see things.

[Paper Roses]

66. I am a widow living on Social Security alone, just getting by if I juggle bills.

Trying to keep my house but it is not looking good.
I'm scared to death.

Worked all my life and resent what the re-thugs are doing to us.
I am angry that our country is spending so much money overseas also. We need to take care of those at home. No more wars.

I never agreed with the re-thug platform but I am now angry at them. We, as a country, should not be held hostage to a group of right wing crazies.

Twenty years ago, I was working, my husband had a job too. He has since died, I was laid off, company moved to Alabama. After almost 2 years, I gave up looking for a job. Grey hair? Forget it.
I volunteer for a charity to keep myself busy. It is a good cause but does not pay my bills.
Yes, I'm scared to death.

[RebelOne]

75. Yes, I know what you are going through.

I am also a single woman living solely on Social Security. I had a fantastic job and was laid off in 2010 because of the economy. It wasn't because of my age as three others were laid off at the same time who were all younger than me. I decided that because I was past retirement age, I would just retire since I knew there was no chance of finding another job at my age, and I did not want to be a Walmart greeter.

I have some savings, but that is rapidly dwindling. I am scared as hell.

[Skittles]

83. we hear you Paper Roses

and we are all in this together

[Warpy]

67. Most older Boomers are even worse off than you are

since we took wage depression combined with runaway inflation on the chin. Most of us weren't paid enough to save and invest for our retirements. In addition, pensions have been looted and those silly 401K plans are largely eaten up with fees.

My own retirement plan was to buy a shabby fixer in a really bad neighborhood that would be a hedge against rising rent. It was within two years. Social security would have allowed me to pay the bills if I'd given up the car to either walk or take the inadequate bus system wherever I needed to go. I didn't have savings because I didn't have health insurance.

I'm afraid there's a whole cohort out there who are facing penury, with minimum wage part time jobs helping them eke out their social security as long as their bodies hold up.

After the fear comes rage and calling what I feel about cheap labor conservatism from both parties "rage" is to diminish what I really feel about it.

[Paper Roses]

74. You said it well, Warpy.

This old timer is trying to keep house and home together like millions of others.
My retirement plans went down the sewer when my husband died, plans since then have only caused more chaos in my life.
If SS is cut, I will be on the streets or close to that anyway.
Your statement about 'rage' is right on the button. I wish there was a stronger word than 'rage'.

What job? If you have grey hair and are on SS, there are no jobs available...at least in my neck of the woods. 401K? we never had the option. Pensions? I never worked for a company that offered it. Even those that did are shafting people who paid into pension funds for years.

I used to, be proud of the good old USA, now? Not so much.

What a sorry state we are in.

[BelgianMadCow]

71. "retirement which is in the market and bonds"

Two words of advice:
1) Don't panic. A lot may happen, but the US is NOT going to default on its bonds. Not even Greece was allowed to default.
2) The entire financial system is sick and rotten to the core. It's being propped up. This can not go on forever (and frankly, we shouldn't let it, either).

So my advice would be: get that retirement out of the market & bonds, and into something tangible, like arable or well situated land, a redesign of your house so as to make it energy-independent, tools & skills, your family...

Of course, never take advice from someone on the internet

[hopemountain]

72. personally, more pissed

than scared. my blood pressure is through the roof.
i'm a survivor and my dignity and freedom are worth more than allowing others to yank my chain. my ancestors already paid the price and i have paid more than my share as well. fuck the teatick party.

[roody]

77. Not terrified but planting edible

perennials. And fruit trees. Nut trees also.

[barbtries]

78. i am not terrified.

the energy spent worrying will be better spent coping with the catastrophes headed our way.

[lostincalifornia]

79. Being scared will not change the stakes. If the Democrats, for hypothetical argument,

did dismantle the ACA, that would create a far worse scenario then the republicans not allowing the debt ceiling to be raised.

Giving in would destroy our form of government, and its laws.

The debt ceiling not getting raised, may destroy the economy, and throw us into a depression.

One we can recover from, the other one we can't, and yes people will be hurt if the debt ceiling is NOT raised, but a lot more would be hurt if the republicans were allowed to destroy established law.

This is a war, and I believe the majority of the populous does NOT agree with the tyranny of the republicans.

Keep the faith, write, call republicans and tell them how you feel

[valerief]

81. You're not the 1%. You don't matter to the people who control your life. nt

[Skittles]

82. I hear you redstatebluegirl

I used to constantly think, how do poor people survive - now it is just becoming people in general

[DCBob]

85. Me too. Im freaked out about it but at the same time I think its going to work out..

somehow.

[Yo_Mama]

86. I think the feeling of insecurity is very widespread

And you are apparently in better shape than many households, but I realize that your fears are not unfounded.

Can you imagine how the tens of millions with considerably less feel?

Also seniors on restricted incomes hearing all this talk about benefit cuts?

Not to mention younger people with large student loans trying to pay them with poor jobs?

[redstatebluegirl]

88. I completely understand!

I know we are in better shape than many, I tell my story just to show that what used to be considered a "safe income level" is not any longer. More and more people are feeling insecure, even when they have done what seemed prudent.

One of my volunteer jobs is at a food pantry. I have noticed in the last year we see more an more first time people who are clearly uncomfortable asking for help but they cannot feed their families. Then a one percenter pulls up in an expensive SUV, drops off a small box of outdate food and waits for a tax receipt. It makes me crazy.

We know we have been blessed, believe me.... If we had not been able to help our parents at the end, Lord knows where they would have been. It tapped us out but this is what you do when you can. We couldn't do it now that is for sure...

[Yo_Mama]

89. Yes - you now have to be in the top 10 or at least 15% to have any security

That alone tells the tale.

It's everything, not just health insurance, although that has been bad enough for millions. The reality is that it is very hard to save enough for any sort of retirement on most people's incomes, job security, wages, benefits and opportunities have been steadily declining for at least 60% of the population, and even if you are fine one moment, you could be a year away from losing your house because you can't pay your mortgage - and that can happen to most in the upper middle class nowadays.

But hey, the older we are the luckier we have been, and it's the young sprats that I worry about the most.

I can tell you that the word has gone out to Wall Street that we are NOT going to default, and there is a pretty close pipeline between the big boys there and the White House, so I wouldn't worry about this one. The real angst is going to hit in a couple of years, though.

[MyshkinCommaPrince]

90. Not terrified... yet.

Extremely anxious and deeply worried. Not quite at the point of terror yet, but that could well happen as the days go by. A deep enough economic crisis could leave many of my family members homeless. Most of us didn't recover fully from 2008. My parents have retired since then, and now they and my surviving grandparents are reliant on SS and their limited investments. A few times since 2008, various of my siblings only stayed afloat with help from older relatives. If there's a market crash and safety net programs are disrupted as part of the larger problem, any or all of us could be at risk. Scary stuff.

And now... have to run off and look at funny cat pictures, to calm myself again. And then find someone to hug.

[yuiyoshida]

91. This country was in trouble when Geroge Bush Jr was given the office...

We knew Obama would try to clean it up, but now we have Republicans standing on his mop, preventing him from doing so while blaming for the mess in the first place. The country still has poor unemployment, and many jobs have gone from full time to part time, so companies could avoid handing out benefits..because they were greedy and needed those profits. They made it difficult for anyone to not only find a job but even keep it. There were always others waiting to take your place...and people were threatened with this..to keep their jobs. Unions were destroyed, or made useless. America made the best place to work, Walmart or McDonalds where they could exploit their employees. People who graduated with Degrees were told they were too smart to work, or overqualified.

And now, here we are...with the Republicans holding a gun to our heads...some people can not work, because they have been told to take a furlough until this is over. The Republicans do a happy dancing because they are making ROME burn all over again... and can not wait to bring this country to its knees, because if they can not rule, NO ONE CAN.

Yes its scary right now...the idea of this country imploding right before our very eyes, all because of a few greedy bastards who want power and control... and can't stand the black man in the White House.

You have to wonder, when there are villains like this... Where are the Superheros ..who will defend us.
'

[PasadenaTrudy]

92. Times like this..

you have to take day by day, minute by minute. Try to stay in the present

[ThingsGottaChange]

93. It really is tough out there. Very scary.

Try making it on 14,000 a year. No, I don't have a house. My car is 20 yrs old. I'm 58, worked until I got disability when I was 50. Went to work every damn day with depression and anxiety. Savings? What the hell is that? Now I have to move again and find something I can afford. Oh, that is so funny! The good news is that I hate leaving my "dwelling" so I save a bunch on gas! And that darned Debt Ceiling. That just might take a bite out of that fabulous "salary" I make. But, I suppose I didn't make the wisest choices financially. Can you imagine how much I should have saved from all those factory jobs? Living alone and paying all the bills myself? Why, I could just kick myself. Wait....I do kick myself. Every day. But, only because that is what life taught me. And a special thanks to Uncle Pedo for making me the responsible, upper class citizen that I am.

You know what folks? It really could be worse than you think. Go ahead and ream me it it'll make you feel better.

[shanti]

130. We're all in this together

[Jackpine Radical]

97. If it were me, I would get my money out of stocks & be damned careful about bonds as well.

Better no interest on money in an insured bank account (or in my case credit union) than 1929 Redux. There will be a worldwide market crash if we default.

Bonds have always been relatively safe in the past, but the inviolable floor has always been US Treasury notes. If we once default on T Notes, the world will not regain confidence in them again for generations. I'm not a financial expert, but I do imagine that the bond market will go all squishy if the T Notes blow up.

On the other hand, maybe the Republicans are not quite crazy enough to drive the clown car off that cliff. That's the bet you have to make here, because we're all in the trailer they're pulling behind the clown car.

[CountAllVotes]

154. +1

Agree.

I haven't had a thing to do with Wall Street in many years now. I'm not rich but I'm not losing anything either.

As you pointed out, even a zero percent savings rate is better than a huge loss that cannot be recouped in many cases.

I fear for the worst with this economy that is going basically nowhere but down down down IMO.

Recovery? Not where I live!

[Stryke]

99. 2nd Post

Took a while to retrieve acct info. Have lurked for a while and posted once.
Yes, The current shutdown and debt ceiling default possibility scares the crap out of me. Haven't been this obsessed with the news since the last debt ceiling threat.
All this crazy dysfunctional government insanity has turned me into somewhat of a prepper. The next economic crisis will be a lot worse than the robbery of 2008.

[handmade34]

105. Welcome to DU

just time for us to unite... we have power if we just use it

[Uncle Joe]

100. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for sharing your feelings, redstatebluegirl.

[NoOneMan]

101. The more people are scared, the bigger "compromise" (assfucking) theyll accept

Hey, don't sweat the small stuff. Go enjoy a walk or the sunset. Its all we can do and maybe the best defense

[cheapdate]

103. I'm 100% with you. This keeps me awake at night for real.

Another recession could hurt us badly. I was out of work for 6-months during the last one. I don't know how we could manage through another one so soon.

[magical thyme]

104. I want to clarify that I'm not afraid of default so much as that President Obama will capitulate to

avoid it.

He. Must. Not. Capitulate.

If push comes to shove, he needs to invoke the 14th. In fact, I'm beginning to wonder if that is Boehner's and the GOP's game plan. Push him against the wall to force him to invoke the 14th and then try to impeach him on that, creating a constitutional crisis. It would force the Supreme Court into the act, to determine the constitutionality.

If they uphold it, then no party or small party faction would *ever* be able to hold us hostage again. It would mean that Congress is forced to pay for their budget, no matter what.

I don't see how they could not uphold it.

[kiranon]

108. Agree. He must not capitulate. Be not afraid - the

future belongs to the Democrats. Also agree the Tea Party/GOP game plan is to create a Constitutional crisis along with financial collapse in the false belief it will benefit the GOP. But it won't. This President is one smart, cool customer. He has their number and knows what they are planning and will prevent the Tea Party/GOP intended destruction. IMHO.

[bvar22]

107. In 2005, after another questionable and uncontested election,

....and after experiencing the nightmare in New Orleans immediately after Katrina,
my Wife & I (solid middle Working Class) cashed out everything,
paid the penalties,
sold everything else,
used the cash to pay off all debts,
and bought inexpensive, Bubble Proof property in The Woods of the rural South with an Ozark Mountain spring.
We live there now, as sustainably, green, independently, and simply as possible.
No Credit Cards, No Mortgage, No Debt

We grow a good percentage of our food (fruit, berries, and vegetables),
keep free range chickens,
and maintain two colonies of European Honey Bees.
If need be, there is plenty of Fish & Game in the adjacent National Forest.

We both have the good fortune to be in good health with strong backs,
and have the skills to make this fun (most of the time)
but it gets harder every year as we age. We won't be able to work this hard forever.
The Medicaid Expansion has relieved our greatest fear (if we make it to the 2014 with no problems).

We are not "survivalists".
We are just two old Hippies who have found a way to live simply but well on a very LOW taxable income, and stuff we learned in the 60s.



Good Luck to us all.

[Lonr]

109. I think this is by design

with worse to come

[Skittles]

110. I agree with this assessment

the powers that be love an unlevel playing field

[blkmusclmachine]

112. The Republicans are Terrorists, and yet the DC DEMS treat them like equals.

[lanlady]

117. I'm scared out of my wits

When I heard that Boehner backpedaled today on the debt ceiling, meaning that the GOP is revving to drive the economy over a cliff, I realized that the lunatics are truly running the asylum.

[tavalon]

119. No, you aren't the only one and yet,

I do hope you can find a way to change that to a more powerful emotion. The one you are feeling is the one that turns bunnies tharn and humans hopeless.

And that is the last 12 step aphorism I will dump on you. These are scary times and the people who are supposed to be "running" things are childish, alcoholic idiots with no more interest in you than in a pesky fly. I'm sorry that's how it is and if I could be queen for a day, I would clean house and it wouldn't be pretty but it is so necessary.

Soon, we are going to need to start turning to one another. This consumer culture has taught us how to not even know our next door neighbor and yet, we not only will, we must, because only by turning to one another and creating co-ops can we stop being consumers and start being compatriots. Tool co-ops, food potluck/co-ops, clothing co-ops and barter, barter, barter.

We were never taught such things. We have to teach ourselves.

[DeSwiss]

125. ''What you resist, persists.'' ~Carl Jung - K&R n/t

[TNNurse]

127. I will be 64 this week

I work part time since my cancer treatment. I never thought that I would be afraid of the Congress. I am so glad many people in my family did not live to see this.

We have no debt and are OK financially......for now. I fear things will happen. Neither my husband or I can continue to work 12 hr shifts much longer and we are certainly not in a position to find new jobs.

I have not been this frightened since 1962 and the Cuban Missile Crisis......9/11 did not scare me this badly.

[Skittles]

133. those 12 hour shifts get harder and harder

I hear you TNNurse

[Jackpine Radical]

159. Happy Birthday!

I'll be 69 on Sunday myself.

[TNNurse]

162. Happy Birthday

Back at you....I plan to retire at 65 so I am celebrating!!! Hope you are, too.

[Jackpine Radical]

163. Not retiring anytime soon.

Can't afford to.

[Politicub]

128. No, me too

I think the GOP is seditious enough to try and force the end of the American experiment.

They hate their country, yet they are in a position to govern.

The more this drags on, the more our retirement accounts get hit until there's nothing left.

[mountain grammy]

131. I'm nervous, but not scared. I refuse to be scared of these fools.

They are the ones who are afraid; armed to the teeth with military weapons and believing in wild conspiracy theories. Afraid of anyone or anything different from themselves. Hiding behind faith that "it's all up to Jesus" and "Jesus plus nothing" these extremists are terrified people. It's their job to be afraid and to spread fear and lies throughout the land.

It's our job to stay strong and speak truth to lies, sacrifice when we must and go on, like we always do. We can't be scared because we have been carrying this country for a long time and fear will cause us to give in and give up.

[ltheghost]

132. The Hard times

I'm currently living paycheck to paycheck too. Along with that wonderful Student Loan payment every month until infinity. The Republicans are playing a dangerous game with people's lives because they are having an inferiority complex issue. I don't like it but if they keep this up after the 17th, I think it is time to seriously consider labeling them traitors to the state. They are going to harm the country because they disagree with a health care program that is already LAW. There is nothing to negotiate, it is the law. I think they need to look in the mirror and take a step back. If their actions start affecting world markets it may be time to arrest them and let them thing about it prison.

I would be totally fine with a government shut down if it didn't last long or wasn't this close to the debt ceiling. All this bickering back and forth with the President just makes them look like little children. Well, the moment it starts to bother Wall Street or people who shop at Wal-Mart, I'm expecting them to change their tune.

[JNelson6563]

137. Ok, so you're not the poorest

of the poor. That does not negate the fact that you do not have the security you and your husband worked to achieve.

It is truly shameful that people do what they are suppose to do but end up without much security anyway.

There's something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there?

Julie

[BelgianMadCow]

142. Thank you Julie

for that clip, reminding me to finally watch V, which I've got on DVD but never really viewed..ermm, consciously.

[JNelson6563]

161. Stay strong friend!

So many of us are going through difficulties of varying degree. We need to stand together.



Julie

[MichaelKelley]

143. everyone feeling same..

I must add to the fact that you are not only one facing this problem, but the whole nation is feeling the same as you. We are tired of these things and we should have a permanent solution for this, but we do not know how to handle this and the government is acting irresponsible.

[annabanana]

146. As one 100% reliant on a federal pension with

with a very sick husband and son



terrified doesn't even come close

[merrily]

150. I am so very sorry for your troubles and hope that default does not add to them.

[CountAllVotes]

151. Terrified

Yep, that is where you end up during times like this when you have your money in the Wall Street casino.

I'd get as far away from it as I could, that is what I'd do.

[liberal N proud]

152. Anyone who is not afraid isn't paying attention

[merrily]

153. Terrified is how they want us.

Then, no matter what happens, we will be relieved when it ends.

[Chaco Dundee]

155. you should be

This looks like its going south.I knew all along that rep.are insane,but now they show their criminal intend as well.same old story,it has to get a lot worse bevore it gets better.

[redstatebluegirl]

156. I called my Representatives office again this morning.

I am going to keep calling until they are sick of me or out of office. They really do not care if this country implodes. In my mind that is treason.
The lady in my reps office told me they first got tons of calls in favor of shutting down the government, then open it back up, now they are back to hold your ground.

Rush and Hannity are doing a great job of brainwashing.

[ladyVet]

164. Not the only one.

At least we don't have far to fall. My retirement is long gone, we're surviving on a part-time retail salary. Luckily, no big bills, just a land payment ("only two more years" is our mantra) and utilities.

I expect Obama won't use the 14th Amendment. He'll likely cave, at least in part, to whatever the repukes want. I know I'll catch flack for that belief, if anybody bothers to reply, but it's my feelings judging from past behavior.

My advice is to stock up what you can, eliminate debts and hang on.