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Archae

(46,522 posts)
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 11:39 PM Oct 2013

Archae not to attend JFK assassination conference. Do you think JFK still matters?

Some of JFK's legacy, yes.

But there is a lot left out of the actual history by the JFK crazies.

JFK was not this "great liberal hope" who was half-deity.
He was being groomed by his Father (who had some rather shady finances,) to attain high office, Senator or possibly President.
He was able to make it because people were simply sick of Tricky Dicky and his "Get dem commies!" policies.
People wanted Kennedy and his "Vigah!"

Kennedy himself was a consummate politician.

Kennedy also was a "rounder," as my Mom would say.
A philandering bastard.

Kennedy was also willing to put into play policies left over from Eisenhower and Dulles, and did so.
The Bay Of Pigs was the most notorious.

Kennedy was in Dallas to kiss up to right-wing bigwigs in Texas, old cronies of Johnson's.

A certified wack job who had been in and out of mental hospitals severely wounded Reagan.
A rabid Confederate sympathizer killed Lincoln.
A religious nutjob who kept demanding a cushy job from Garfield killed him.
A crazy anarchist killed McKinley.

And a grandiose far-leftist shot and killed Kennedy, all the available CREDIBLE (as opposed to wild charges, theories and innuendos,) point to Oswald.

The latest grandstander jumping on the JFK conspiracy bandwagon is Jerome Corsi, he would accuse his own Mother of being a communist for money.

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Archae not to attend JFK assassination conference. Do you think JFK still matters? (Original Post) Archae Oct 2013 OP
The Bay of Pigs actually was where he shifted. joshcryer Oct 2013 #1
The Lincoln assassination was a conspiracy carried out by a lone assassin, conspirators were hung. gordianot Oct 2013 #2
Do you remember where you were when Kennedy was shot, Archae? JDPriestly Oct 2013 #3
Thank you. Lugnut Oct 2013 #4
I posted this graph on another thread regarding a different subject but it clearly reflects the Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #5
Thank you, JD, Blue_In_AK Oct 2013 #6
And Bobby Kennedy & MLK whose assassinations also contributed KoKo Oct 2013 #15
Yes. Too many "coincidences." JDPriestly Oct 2013 #16
Yes, it matters. The only "grandiosity" I see at the moment is in the OP. villager Oct 2013 #7
How much money do you need not to attend? jberryhill Oct 2013 #8
Mean-spirited thread tkmorris Oct 2013 #9
+1 SecularMotion Oct 2013 #10
+1 KoKo Oct 2013 #14
Agreed. City Lights Oct 2013 #13
yep Archae i agree with you on this one dembotoz Oct 2013 #11
Nasty. Sheldon Cooper Oct 2013 #12

joshcryer

(62,300 posts)
1. The Bay of Pigs actually was where he shifted.
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 11:53 PM
Oct 2013

It was basically handed to him (it happened in the first few months of his Presidency) and it caused a shift in his thinking. He was originally a "War President" someone who wanted to govern under the auspices of war. After the Cuban Missile Crisis his shift toward world peace was pretty dramatic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_University_speech

I think Hit List: An In-Depth Investigation into the Mysterious Deaths of Witnesses to the JFK Assassination is pretty compelling.

gordianot

(15,329 posts)
2. The Lincoln assassination was a conspiracy carried out by a lone assassin, conspirators were hung.
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 01:06 AM
Oct 2013

The Warren Commission had its share of wild charges, theories, innuendo and was a botched investigation which is why it is still an issue today.

The events of September 11, 2001 was also a botched investigation, at the least it was a grave national security failure by the most incompetent executive administration to ever hold office.

In October 2013 there is a conspiracy by a faction of the Republican Party to destroy extort the United States Federal Government and make mockery of the United States Constitution. This situation has the potential to be a world wide catastrophe.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
3. Do you remember where you were when Kennedy was shot, Archae?
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 01:11 AM
Oct 2013

Last edited Wed Oct 9, 2013, 02:15 AM - Edit history (1)

Because many of those of us old enough to remember do not agree with you on a lot of points.

In 1960, we who were young (I was a freshman in college) in America were more excited at the prospect of replacing old Eisenhower with the youthful symbol of hope, Kennedy than the Obama youth were in 2008.

A lot of questions are unanswered when it comes to Kennedy's assassination. The news reports of the time presented information that was later never dealt with and simply swept under the rug.

The assassination involved so many coincidences, so much information, and the conclusions of the Warren Report were so conclusive that it is unlikely that the Report is accurate. Life just isn't that snugly tied together with a big bow. That is not how it works.

The Warren Report needs to be reviewed at this half-century mark. I'm hoping that some good historians working with forensic scientists who are capable of analyzing all the information with today's techniques and based on the knowledge about forensics acquired since 1963 will review all the evidence and reports and testimony and give us an updated report on that assassination. The errors in the Report may be many, may be few, but it needs recurring review.

And, Emperor Franz Josef (Woops! Wrong. Rereading this, I wrote and thought of the wrong name. It was Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria whose assassination in Sarajevo set off WWI), for example, was killed by one of a number of conspirators. So were many other leaders in the world including, very possibly, Abraham Lincoln.

Women's lib was just a faint hum on the breeze in 1960. A lot of women were going to college. We didn't all really want to be nurses, secretaries or teachers. Many of us were capable of joining professions that were at that time pretty much limited to men. We weren't yet clamoring for property rights, abortion rights, etc. Birth control pills were something new, revolutionary in the early 1960s. Attitudes about gender roles were pretty old-fashioned. The guy was in the driver's seat. High school boys, for example, were viewed as future world or community leaders. Girls were destined for the Junior League at the best.

The churches were always officially at least opposed to womanizing or pre-marital or extra-marital sex at least superficially. But the reality was that men were viewed as being free to do whatever they wanted. The Kennedys, like most men even those of my generation (I was obviously much younger than he was), were probably raised that way. Sex was something that boys could enjoy as they wished, but good girls were not supposed to even know much about it much less do it (Good heavens. Unmarried and pregnant??? How was that possible? We girls knew next to nothing or nothing about sex. You cannot imagine how it was if you live today.) Never mind that the reality was that teen pregnancy was pretty common and shotgun marriages routine in my high school. There was a double standard not just between what was allowed by boys and not allowed by girls, but also between what everybody pretended was happening and what really was happening.

Honesty was not a major value when it came to sex or politics in the early 1960s. That's just an unfortunate fact. The Nixon era woke Americans up. Suddenly we demanded honesty. Roosevelt was apparently fairly honest. Whether true or not, Truman had a reputation for being very, very straightforward. What you saw, we were encouraged to believe, was what you were getting. But lying was so common and finding things out so difficult that I don't know whether to trust the common belief of that time or not.

The Kennedys were sinful, but their personal lives would not have made the front pages of a newspaper back then. And Johnson was probably no better in his day (just not as goodlooking and therefore with fewer opportunities to philander), and Nixon????? Lucky to have a wife.

So sex would probably not have ended Kennedy's political career. Probably wouldn't even have caused a pause. Remember, Eisenhower is believed to have had a mistress while serving in the military (maybe true, maybe not) and Roosevelt most definitely did have a mistress. Yet they were two of our best presidents ever. So Kennedy's sex life is really a nonissue. It was kind of par for the course at that time.

So, no. I don't agree with your post. The Kennedy assassination continues to intrigue because too many of us have this sense that the mysteries have not yet been fully solved. I hope that all the files will be opened to the public and especially to historians this year. 50 years. It's been a long time. But everything changed when Kennedy was assassinated. It completely disillusioned my generation. The hippies were in part a big reaction to that assassination. So was the investigation into Watergate and the upheaval that resulted. Reagan was a counter-revolution, a reaction to the generation that had lived through the Kennedy assassination and become disillusioned by that event and the Nixon years and had, thus, given up on government. Add a little racism in Southern voters and you have a Reagan election.

Uncle Joe

(59,176 posts)
5. I posted this graph on another thread regarding a different subject but it clearly reflects the
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 01:59 AM
Oct 2013

disillusionment that you mention in regards to Presidential Voter turnout.



So, no. I don't agree with your post. The Kennedy assassination continues to intrigue because too many of us have this sense that the mysteries have not yet been fully solved. I hope that all the files will be opened to the public and especially to historians this year. 50 years. It's been a long time. But everything changed when Kennedy was assassinated. It completely disillusioned my generation. The hippies were in part a big reaction to that assassination. So was the investigation into Watergate and the upheaval that resulted. Reagan was a counter-revolution, a reaction to the generation that had lived through the Kennedy assassination and become disillusioned by that event and the Nixon years and had, thus, given up on government. Add a little racism in Southern voters and you have a Reagan election.



Presidential voter turnout peaks in 1960, the year JFK was elected and continually drops until 1992.



Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
6. Thank you, JD,
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 02:01 AM
Oct 2013

you summed that up perfectly. I was 17 when JFK was assassinated, and I really believe it was a defining moment in my life.

Personally, I think it's impossible to ignore the possibility, or probability even, of conspiracies at work. Too many of our leaders have died violent or mysterious deaths, and just look where we are today. All the fascist dreams are finally coming to fruition. I don't have much hope at this point.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
15. And Bobby Kennedy & MLK whose assassinations also contributed
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 09:57 AM
Oct 2013

to the disillusionment. The Nantucket plane crash of JFK's son. The "Kennedy Curse" it has been called. What are the odds of that?

Recommend your post, J.D. Priestly.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
16. Yes. Too many "coincidences."
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 12:30 PM
Oct 2013

If it had just been JFK and not also so many, some whom we have forgotten, fewer people would think there might have been a conspiracy. You have to have been alive then to remember how rabid the South was, how they were lynching liberals. How hate so quickly translated into a conspiracy and death. Martin Luther King is obvious.

The three students in Mississippi and many other cases. Too many to list. It pains me to try to remember.

Medgar Evers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medgar_Evers

The three students in Mississippi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_civil_rights_workers%27_murders

The young generation now coming of age does not remember that time or realize how horrible the assassinations, every couple of years were for us. The assassinations just kept coming. People now have to go back to the Reagan era to think of an assassination attempt, an unsuccessful assassination attempt.

But we were going through that civic and societal trauma every few years. If that was a "coincidence"? I'm using the word coincidence because I don't have proof of some sort of scheme, but the assassinations and killings of prominent leaders were so frequent, it seemed like something more.

There for a while a couple of "plane crashes" killed Democratic leaders. Wellstone in 2002 comes to mind. There was another one, Carnahan in 2000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Carnahan

Those were followed by the plane crash that killed to prospective witness in the deposition about voter fraud in 2004.

Coincidences? Maybe some of them. But it is far-fetched to think they all were. Who knows who or what was really behind it all. That is why we have the Southern Poverty Law Center. Odd that some person would name the Southern Poverty Law Center as an inspiration for his violence. Because the whole point of that organization is to stop the violence that ran rampant for so many years.

As I review the list of right-win attacks on liberals, I ask, "Why worry about Muslim terrorists?" We grow our own right here every once in awhile.

tkmorris

(11,138 posts)
9. Mean-spirited thread
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 09:41 AM
Oct 2013

If you wanted to mock Octafish for his thread you would be better off doing it IN his thread. Or better yet, not at all.

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