General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI loved President Obama's statement on immigration reform:
"I'm not running for re-election. I'm doing it because I believe it is the right thing to do."
THE RIGHT THING TO DO!!! It's wonderful having a president who will do that!!!
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Adding dental to Medicare would be better ....
Lifting the cap on SS would be better ....
Raising the minimum wage to a living wage would be better ....
Considering how the right will rally their voters around "immigration reform" in 2014, this - albeit important - seems like a very unproductive area.
gopiscrap
(23,673 posts)but immigration reform is also important
Xipe Totec
(43,872 posts)Maybe you don't have skin in the game, but I do.
RZM
(8,556 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,872 posts)jtuck004
(15,882 posts)it will increase unemployment for at least a decade, and given that the majority of jobs being created are less than living wage, and that inequality is increasing while we argue about everything, anything else, it is like feeding them to the wealthy for the benefit of a few.
Do we address that, or just invite them to become citizens so they can benefit from being equally fucked over like 99% of the people?
Xipe Totec
(43,872 posts)And by the way, do you think that those people who are here undocumented are not working? What is it precisely you think they are doing here that will magically change once we start counting them?
They are here. They are working. If they were not working, they would not be here. So how is that going to change once they are documented?
The only thing that changes is that they get properly counted and can stop being exploited. That will raise living wages for everybody because they will no longer be working for below minimum wage.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)http://lmgtfy.com/?q=economic+impact+of+s.+744
From the report:
"Employment and Wages. The supply of labor in the economy would increase primarily because the legislation would loosen or eliminate annual limits on various categories of permanent and temporary immigration. Enacting the bill would, in CBOs view, increase the U.S. population by about 10 million people (about 3 percent) in 2023 and by about 16 million people (about 4 percent) in 2033.
CBO and JCT expect that new immigrants of working age would participate in the labor force at a higher rate, on average, than other people in that age range in the United States. Relative to CBOs projections under current law, enacting the bill would increase the size of the labor force by about 6 million (about 3½ percent) in 2023 and by about 9 million (about 5 percent) in 2033, CBO and JCT estimate. Employment would increase as the labor force expanded, because the additional population would add to demand for goods and services and, in turn, to the demand for labor. However, temporary imbalances in the skills and occupations demanded and supplied in the labor market, as well as other factors, would cause the unemployment rate to be slightly higher for several years than projected under current law. "
It goes on to say that productivity would increase, which means wages won't, if one is paying attention to the economy for the past 40 years - that's how increased in productivity are achieved, by laying people off and paying the people who remain less to do more work because they now fear for their jobs.
This, by the way, is the Congressional Budget Office, one of the few mostly non-partisan sources that Democrats rely on for factual information. On balance they tend toward being fair, although almost always too optimistic once the numbers come in.
I know you are all wrapped up in what you want to think, but I never said they are not working now. Anyone with half a brain knows they are working now, paying taxes, not getting the benefits of being a citizen. But it does them no favors to misrepresent what will actually happen. Their work might change, but their wages won't go up, and not as many will get jobs because we aren't creating enough.
What will happen is they will then join in the lines of 8, 20, 300 people all vying for one job from a different thieving employer than the thieving employer they are working for now.
A few will achieve more, but like most people the majority will still be exploited just as the 99% are today, but then they will be exploited as American citizens.
Which, of course, makes all the difference in the world.
Xipe Totec
(43,872 posts)But I can see already that courtesy is not something that is in your nature.
I will factor that into any future interaction I might have with you going forward.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)didn't seem to be in your calculations with your first post, either. But it's not about personal squabbles, it's about people's lives, and
what is going to happen to them, what is happening to them today, matters a lot more, eh?
Factor that.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)I think it should happen. I think it NEEDS to happen. This country was built and made great by immigration (well, along with genocide and greed, but that's another subject), and that amalgam of different points of view, new knowledge and ways of looking at things, and just vibrancy that we get from new people is invaluable.
But if we don't change the structure and address inequality, and instead replace that hard struggle with a bunch of lies and falsehoods about how much better it is going to be when these people, who deserve to be citizens if they want, actually become citizens, we are doing them and all of us a great disservice.
And helping the people who are hurting all of us get away with even more.
gopiscrap
(23,673 posts)Cha
(295,899 posts)this may not see how important it is. I don't know anyone but I still know how important it is.
I made a thread on it that you might be interested in..
Excellent! PBO & VP Biden on Sensible Immigration Reform at the Whitehouse~Pics and Vid~
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110218753
More..
Nearly 205K Deportations of Parents of U.S. Citizens in Just Over Two Years
h/t sheshe http://www.democraticunderground.com/110218801
The Democrats have spent 5 years propping up a dead GOP
Why stop now?
This in no way props up the GOP. It will tear them further apart. This will split them between the rational..if you can call them that..part of the party that understands the demographic challenges they face and the batshit crazy portion that doesn't care that they can no longer win elections with just white guys.
Sorry but this is smart politics and will make other changes people are talking about that much easier to accomplish in the long run.
The idea this will help prop up the GOP ignores the political realities the GOP is facing.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)If Republicans stand firm against immigration reform, it will be used against GOP in districts with enough Latino vote to turn elections.
If he can get Dem majority in House, then they can work on other things in your list.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Wouldn't adding dental to Medicare motivate more people to our side? Lifting the cap? Living wage?
Hell, it's the R's that want immigration reform; they love cheap labor.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)tailor our policy to avoid antagonizing bigots.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)the Latinos already vote Democratic, and you don't want to get the racist crazies riled up.
leftstreet
(36,076 posts)But what about the Latino vote???!!!!
The poster was talking about the economic issues directly related to all people
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)"Why energzie the racists" = we need to avoid offending the bigots.
Fuck that noise.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Latinos have been promised, and have been waiting for immigration reform for FIVE years. It would be a disaster, not to mention a betrayal to that promise for Obama to go back on his word in this issue (again)
The racists will not vote Democratic no matter what. Is better to do right by out allies, an show them that a Democratic president does keep his word
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)It's a MAJOR issue, that is LONG overdue. The time for punting on it is over.
Obama was getting heat in 2011 for not doing enough fast enough on immigration.
leftstreet
(36,076 posts)The Obama admin's ICE has deported record amounts of immigrants - mostly for drug and alcohol offenses. His admin has advanced NO immigration 'reform' legislation
Now all of a sudden immigration is important?
pfft
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)of what's been going on with immigration and the Obama administration over the past several years.
http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/ABC_Univision/obama-staking-reelection-immigration-promise/story?id=17599869
Bipartisan immigration reform has already passed the Senate.
Don't forget this:
http://www.wnyc.org/story/216824-dreamers-celebrate-obama-immigration-announcement/
Just because you and your fellow Obama bashers in Congress hate the ACA and view immigration as a distraction does not make it reality.
leftstreet
(36,076 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)arbitrarily and "all of a sudden" in order to gain politically.
http://spectator.org/blog/2013/10/24/immigration-distractions
Also, remember that Obama doesnt actually care about immigration or any other policy issue. His goal is the destruction of the GOP. Thats why he chose immigration as his next focus, because he thinks its the most difficult issue for Republicans and most likely to hurt Republicans in 2014.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/2766309180001/wh-using-immigration-reform-to-distract -from-obamacare/?playlist_id=928378949001
leftstreet
(36,076 posts)You brought it up for no reason other than to paint critics of admin policies as big meanies
Awwww
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"You brought it up for no reason other than to...
Or simply because it's relevant to the overall context of the discussion...
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... back of the line. I agree it's an important issue, and overdue. So are the ones I suggested.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)as more worthy of attention.
Which has been what has happened on immigration far too often.
leftstreet
(36,076 posts)I think that was the point of the post
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)for far too long, and it's time for the President to stand up and demand action on it.
Let the Republicans tell Latinos to 'drop dead'--but we Democrats should not do it.
leftstreet
(36,076 posts)The legislation has been neglected...if that's what you mean
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)things you write here are not true.
Immigration reform has already passed the Senate. Boehner is refusing to allow a vote on it in the House.
leftstreet
(36,076 posts)But you probably know that
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)leftstreet
(36,076 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Latinos have been demanding action on immigration reform for some time.
They are also the biggest supporters of the ACA of any demographic group.
So, no, your Ron Paulesque talking point of ending the drug war being more important to Latinos than immigration reform and health care is nonsense.
leftstreet
(36,076 posts)How many families torn apart? Kids thrown into poverty
You don't know, do you
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)deporations, and then bash Obama for pushing comprehensive immigration reform that has already passed the Senate and would pass the House if Boehner were to allow a vote on it.
Just like you were here pushing the "delay the mandate" talking point literally 2 minutes after the GOP conference decided to attach that provision to its continuing resolution.
leftstreet
(36,076 posts)You guys crack me up. Always on that message discipline
kudos
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)1st Session
S. 744
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AN ACT
To provide for comprehensive immigration reform and for other purposes.
As oppose to your crowd who (a) want to do nothing or (b) do weenie little piecemeal bills.
leftstreet
(36,076 posts)On drug/alcohol charges?
Would you say...1k? 5k? Maybe 50k? How about for the past 5 years?
How many families thrown into chaos and economic disaster?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)immigration reform and a path to citizenship that the deporations and ill-effects on families don't matter to you, but rather are talking points for your Libertarian agenda.
leftstreet
(36,076 posts)duhneece
(4,104 posts)I pray it is the next right thing to do...but I know the President and our congress critters need to hear that roar from us. Come on, you DU activists...let's ROAR!
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Of course, I have several other pet issues that are THE thing for me now, too, but I'm a good multitasker.
duhneece
(4,104 posts)Women's choice is another biggie for me and I'm a co-producer of first (and second and...) The Vagina Monologues in Alamogordo, NM, as well as 2 other plays with local stories, celebrating women's sexuality and acknowledging trans-gendered in our community and male rape.
Then, too, I was out protesting the War on Iraqi's 11 yrs ago...you sound like an activist, too. I hope you're not as poor in financial options!!
Or cutting MIC spending, or increasing infrastructure or education spending, getting rid of Race to the Bottom, reinstating Glass Steagall ... there's several other things, IMHO, he should use this momentum on.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)BluegrassStateBlues
(881 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)Office of the Press Secretary
_________________________________
For Immediate Release October 24, 2013
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
ON IMMIGRATION REFORM
East Room
10:47 A.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. Please have a seat, everybody. Good morning, and welcome to the White House. Today Im here with leaders from business, from labor, from faith communities who are united around one goal -- finishing the job of fixing a broken immigration system.
This is not just an idea whose time has come; this is an idea whose time has been around for years now. Leaders like all of you have worked together with Republicans and Democrats in this town in good faith for years to try to get this done. And this is the moment when we should be able to finally get the job done.
Now, its no secret that the American people havent seen much out of Washington that they like these days. The shutdown and the threat of the first default in more than 200 years inflicted real pain on our businesses and on families across the country. And it was a completely unnecessary, self-inflicted wound with real costs to real people, and it can never happen again.
Even with the shutdown over, and the threat of default eliminated, Democrats and Republicans still have some really big disagreements -- there are some just fundamentally different views about how we should move forward on certain issues. On the other hand, as I said the day after the shutdown ended, that's no reason that we shouldnt be able to work together on the things that we do agree on.
We should be able to work together on a responsible budget that invests in the things that we need to grow our economy and create jobs even while we maintain fiscal discipline. We should be able to pass a farm bill that helps rural communities grow and protects vulnerable Americans in hard times.
And we should pass immigration reform. (Applause.) We should pass immigration reform. Its good for our economy. Its good for our national security. Its good for our people. And we should do it this year.
Everybody knows that our current immigration system is broken. Across the political spectrum, people understand that. Weve known it for years. Its not smart to invite some of the brightest minds from around the world to study here and then not let them start businesses here -- we send them back to their home countries to start businesses and create jobs and invent new products someplace else.
Its not fair to businesses and middle-class families who play by the rules when we allow companies that are trying to undercut the rules work in the shadow economy, to hire folks at lower wages or no benefits, no overtime, so that somehow they get a competitive edge from breaking the rules. That doesnt make sense.
It doesnt make sense to have 11 million people who are in this country illegally without any incentive or any way for them to come out of the shadows, get right with the law, meet their responsibilities and permit their families then to move ahead. Its not smart. Its not fair. It doesnt make sense. We have kicked this particular can down the road for too long.
Now, the good news is, this year the Senate has already passed an immigration reform bill by a wide, bipartisan majority that addressed all of these issues. Its a bill that would continue to strengthen our borders. It would level the playing field by holding unscrupulous employers accountable if they knowingly hire undocumented workers.
It would modernize our legal immigration system, so that even as we train American workers for the jobs of the future, were also attracting highly-skilled entrepreneurs from beyond our borders to join with us to create jobs here in the United States.
It would make sure that everybody plays by the same rules by providing a pathway to earned citizenship for those who are here illegally -- one that includes passing a background check, learning English, paying taxes, paying a penalty, getting in line behind everyone who is trying to come here the right way.
So it had all the component parts. It didn't have everything that I wanted; it didn't have everything that anybody wanted; but it addressed the core challenges of how we create a immigration system that is fair, thats just, that is true to our traditions as a nation of laws and a nation of immigrants. And that's passed the Senate by a bipartisan majority. (Applause.)
So here's what we also know -- that the bill would grow the economy and shrink our deficits. Independent economists have shown that if the Senate bill became law, over the next two decades our economy would grow by $1.4 trillion more than it would if we don't pass the law. It would reduce our deficits by nearly a trillion dollars.
So this isnt just the right thing to do; its the smart thing to do. Securing our borders; modernizing our legal immigration system; providing a pathway to earned, legalized citizenship; growing our economy; strengthening our middle class; reducing our deficits -- thats what common-sense immigration reform will do.
Now, obviously, just because something is smart and fair, and good for the economy and fiscally responsible and supported by business and labor -- (laughter) -- and the evangelical community and many Democrats and many Republicans, that does not mean that it will actually get done. (Laughter.) This is Washington, after all.
So everything tends to be viewed through a political prism and everybody has been looking at the politics of this. And I know that there are some folks in this town who are primed to think, Well, if Obama is for it, then Im against it. But Id remind everybody that my Republican predecessor was also for it when he proposed reforms like this almost a decade ago, and I joined with 23 Senate Republicans back then to support that reform. Id remind you that this reform won more than a dozen Republican votes in the Senate in June.
Im not running for office again. I just believe this is the right thing to do. (Applause.) I just believe this is the right thing to do. And I also believe that good policy is good politics in this instance. And if folks are really that consumed with the politics of fixing our broken immigration system, they should take a closer look at the polls because the American people support this. Its not something they reject -- they support it. Everybody wins here if we work together to get this done. In fact, if theres a good reason not to pass this common-sense reform, I havent heard it.
So anyone still standing in the way of this bipartisan reform should at least have to explain why. A clear majority of the American people think its the right thing to do.
Now, how do we move forward? Democratic leaders have introduced a bill in the House that is similar to the bipartisan Senate bill. So now its up to Republicans in the House to decide whether reform becomes a reality or not.
I do know -- and this is good news -- that many of them agree that we need to fix our broken immigration system across these areas that weve just discussed. And what Ive said to them, and Ill repeat today, is if House Republicans have new and different, additional ideas for how we should move forward, then we want to hear them. Ill be listening. I know that Democrats and Republicans in the Senate, those who voted for immigration reform already, are eager to hear those additional ideas. But what we cant do is just sweep the problem under the rug one more time, leave it for somebody else to solve sometime in the future.
Rather than create problems, lets prove to the American people that Washington can actually solve some problems. This reform comes as close to anything weve got to a law that will benefit everybody now and far into the future. So lets see if we can get this done. And lets see if we can get it done this year. (Applause.)
Weve got the time to do it. Republicans in the House, including the Speaker, have said we should act. So lets not wait. It doesnt get easier to just put it off. Lets do it now. Lets not delay. Lets get this done, and lets do it in a bipartisan fashion.
To those of you who are here today, I want to just say one last thing and that is -- thank you. I want to thank you for your persistence. I want to thank you for your activism. I want to thank you for your passion and your heart when it comes to this issue. And I want to tell you, youve got to keep it up. Keep putting the pressure on all of us to get this done. There are going to be moments -- and there are always moments like this in big efforts at reform -- where you meet resistance, and the press will declare something dead, its not going to happen, but that can be overcome.
And I have to say, Joe, as I look out at this room, these dont look like people who are easily deterred. (Laughter.)
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I dont think so.
THE PRESIDENT: They dont look like folks who are going to give up. (Applause.) You look fired up to make the next push. And whether youre a Republican or a Democrat or an independent, I want you to keep working, and Im going to be right next to you, to make sure we get immigration reform done. It is time. Lets go get it done.
Thank you very much, everybody. (Applause.)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/24/1250259/-President-Obama-s-remarks-on-immigration-reform
gopiscrap
(23,673 posts)Warpy
(110,900 posts)maybe he'll be able to get some of this stuff done.
The country seems to be set to throw the idiots out now. I just hope the idiots keep acting out so they remember it next November.
Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.