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Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:01 AM

 

Segregated colleges

Parents of kids in colleges chime in. Many schools like UGA( not southern bashing) make all freshman stay on campus the first year. There is no commuting to these schools. The consequence is that many poorer kids simply can't afford to attend these schools. This is defacto segregation and I think it goes on all over the country. Anyone else see this happening.

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Arrow 38 replies Author Time Post
Reply Segregated colleges (Original post)
wilt the stilt Oct 2013 OP
Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #1
wilt the stilt Oct 2013 #2
exboyfil Oct 2013 #7
LuvNewcastle Oct 2013 #19
exboyfil Oct 2013 #22
LuvNewcastle Oct 2013 #25
enlightenment Oct 2013 #13
wilt the stilt Oct 2013 #24
enlightenment Oct 2013 #29
MattBaggins Oct 2013 #3
Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #11
MattBaggins Oct 2013 #35
Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #36
MattBaggins Oct 2013 #37
LuvNewcastle Oct 2013 #23
BKH70041 Oct 2013 #4
Tanuki Oct 2013 #5
ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #12
Recursion Oct 2013 #6
rustysgurl Oct 2013 #8
wilt the stilt Oct 2013 #10
wilt the stilt Oct 2013 #9
LineLineReply .
ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #14
Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #17
wilt the stilt Oct 2013 #20
ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #21
Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #28
wilt the stilt Oct 2013 #30
Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #31
wilt the stilt Oct 2013 #32
Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #33
wilt the stilt Oct 2013 #34
ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #15
aikoaiko Oct 2013 #16
MineralMan Oct 2013 #18
gopiscrap Oct 2013 #26
Drale Oct 2013 #27
One_Life_To_Give Oct 2013 #38

Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:03 AM

1. wait...uh...come again?

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:05 AM

2. the cost of staying on campus after it is all said and done

 

is probably $15,000- $25,000 which is very expensive for a family of modest means.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:20 AM

7. The actual cost with meal plan is about $10K

in my state. I do feel uncomfortable with schools requiring freshman to live on campus but realistically except for commuter students coming from home the cost variance is probably not that great (consider apartment rentals next to campus). One area that I think they should consider is the meal plan - that is an area in which students could save money especially smaller ones (my daughter is small and eats like a bird). The dorms at the college she is leaning towards are all you can eat, and the food is top notch. I want her in the dorm closest to the engineering building. The time savings can make a difference in her academics (and free her up to work more).

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:38 AM

19. The meal plan was a big expense at my college,

and the food was just awful. It was the worst cafeteria food I've ever eaten in my life. We were required to buy it, though, and we had no other place to eat besides the cafeteria.

Freshmen were required to stay in the dorms, but that really applied to the young freshmen who were just out of high school. We had a lot of commuters, most of them older students, so the requirements were waived for them.

Be glad she has good food to eat. It really makes a difference in a student's health and overall happiness while being away at school. I'm sure it also helps academically.

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Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #19)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:44 AM

22. Thanks I remember my dorm food

at Purdue as being passable but not spectacular in the early 1980s. Both our state schools are like having every meal at a Golden Corral. The offerings are simply staggering (or at least when the campus visits are scheduled?). I was blown away by both Iowa and Iowa State. It appears that Purdue has gone to that same model with a facility very similar to the ones at Iowa and Iowa State in front of my old dorm (the food service area in the old dorm is currently an uneasy conversion to a study area with desks placed there - I suspect they will retask the space eventually).

I am very happy if she gets her first dorm choice. Food right next to her dorm. Mechanical Engineering building right next to the food. It is perfect.

Of course we can afford it. She has already shaved three semesters off her four year degree and has the potential of graduating in two years if the courses line up.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #22)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:54 AM

25. That's great. Glad she's doing well.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:28 AM

13. You're including tuition in that figure.

At least for UGA. Room and board is about $9000 for residents (not cheap, but UGA is pretty typical for university level costs these days). https://www.admissions.uga.edu/article/tuition-and-costs-of-attending.html

Room and board aside, university tuition at increasingly cost-prohibitive, and that is a form of de facto discrimination, I agree.

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Response to enlightenment (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:47 AM

24. We all forget living expenses

 

which are not cheap and at UGA the cafeteria is closed on Sunday so you have to eat out.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Reply #24)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 11:26 AM

29. True, these things are expensive.

The university experience has become increasingly expensive and increasingly out of reach for many.

It is unfortunate - and wrong (imo) - but acknowledging that doesn't change it and people are paying the price. For example; My youngest niece is a very bright young lady and a good scholar, but not inclined to sports or the 24/7 round of activities that earn the coveted "high achiever" status. As such, she was not able to collect the scholarships, etc, that might have helped her through school. She wants to be a forensic pathologist - which means a PhD.
She's still trying, of course, but her "dream" of attending a university has been curtailed by reality. Her parents are not in a position to help her much, so she has accepted that she needs to find alternative routes - community college, etc, to put her in a position to afford her BA without accumulating too much debt - she'll be doing that for grad school, almost certainly.

It's not what her 18 year old brain wants. She wanted to go off to school with her friends and live in the dorm and have the "experience". I truly wish that were possible (though the experience isn't all it's cracked up to be . . .), but it's not. She will reach her goal, of that I'm sure, because she is determined and motivated to do that. The route is simply going to be rockier and more circuitous than she anticipated.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:06 AM

3. Schools that demand freshman live on campus

put an economic burden on poor students, which disproportionately affects minority kids.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #3)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:25 AM

11. Well for starters, most schools have exemptions depending on the situation...

Living with parents is usually permitted...Rules like this are essentially to discourage freshmen straight out of high school from renting an off-campus apartment and holding the famous semester-long "College Pentathlon" (drinking/smoking/partying/video gaming/sex)

Secondly, there are countless institutes of higher learning in every state who don't have this rule...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #11)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 01:04 PM

35. thirdly

all of that has nothing to do with the fact that those schools that require it put an economic burden on poor students...this is a simple fact.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #35)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 01:36 PM

36. Which is why many spend their "freshman year" at community college...

and why so many big-name schools have 'fast transition' credit hour agreements with regional JuCos...

It's not like low-income students don't have alternate solutions to not living on campus...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #36)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 02:13 PM

37. Is that everyone?

No. For many it is a burden.

And a stupid policy.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #3)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:46 AM

23. For me, it was cheaper than living in an apartment.

I had no money except for what I made at my work-study job, which wasn't much. Sometimes my mom would send me a little bit, but it would never have been enough for an apartment. There weren't many apartments in that town, and they charged too much for rent and were very restrictive about the amount of people living in each one. The dorm was my only option.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:11 AM

4. $15,000- $25,000 to stay on campus?

I was in the wrong freakin' dorm.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:16 AM

5. It's not true that there is "no commuting" for local kids whose families live near UGA

http://housing.uga.edu/residence/first-year-live-requirement

..."Exemption from the First Year Live-On Requirement
....Students may be exempt from the requirement to live in the residence halls while they reside in the principal residence of a parent or legal guardian within the counties of Clarke, Barrow, Jackson, Madison, Oglethorpe or Oconee. Students desiring this exemption must apply and provide parent or legal guardian endorsement.

Requests for exemption to the first year live-on requirement on the basis of compelling individual circumstances will be considered."...

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Response to Tanuki (Reply #5)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:27 AM

12. I know a lot of state colleges do this, and they do make exceptions for many reasons.

I wish my daughter had stayed on campus her freshman year; she may have finished college if she had done that.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:19 AM

6. Staying on-campus Freshman year makes you 40% more likely to complete a degree

That's not a money-grab, that's what Student Affairs has been begging colleges to do for years.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:21 AM

8. I Don't Believe This is Discrimination Per Se

The rule on this campus (similar to rules on campuses where my children have gone to college as well as at the college I attended) is probably designed to limit the distractions while college freshmen are 'settling in', to give them a better footing going forward. At least that's how it was explained to my parents and to me when my kids attended. Of course, there are exceptions made to this rule (as stated above). If there are exceptions made, then I don't think it's really discriminatory.

And the $15-20k price probably includes the meal plan, of which there are usually many tiers and options.

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Response to rustysgurl (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:24 AM

10. two tiers at UGA food plan

 

5 and 7 days. That is it.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:22 AM

9. so why can't you commute from Gwinnett, Fulton or Dekalb

 

Gwinnett is 50 minutes away and Dekalb is only 10 minutes more. Even Fulton is not that much more. Explain why these counties can't commute.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Reply #9)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:29 AM

14. .

http://housing.uga.edu/residence/first-year-live-requirement

Procedures for Reviewing Requests for Exemption from First Year Live-On Requirement

I. Requests for exemption to the first year live-on requirement will be considered and may be granted in cases of compelling individual circumstances.

II. All correspondence regarding exemption requests should be addressed to: Housing Assignments Office, First Year Live-On Requirement, Russell Hall, Athens GA 30602-5575. Questions may be answered by contacting the Assignments Office at 706-542-1421, 706-542-8595 (fax) or housing@uga.edu.

III. The Director of Residence Hall Administrative Services and Communications, or her/his designee, will review written requests for exemption within a timely manner. Additional information may be required of some applicants. Applicants will be notified of decisions regarding requests for exemption in a timely manner.

IV. Individual students may appeal, in writing, the denial of the request for exemption to an appeals committee consisting of (a) one member of the faculty appointed by the chairperson of the Educational Affairs Committee of the University Council who will serve as chairperson of the appeals committee, (b) one Division of Student Affairs professional staff member appointed by the vice president for student affairs and (c) one University Housing professional staff member appointed by the executive director of University Housing.


Written appeals must be submitted to the University Housing Assignments Office not later than ten working days after notice has been sent that a request for exemption has been denied.
Appeals will be reviewed in a timely manner at University Housing.
The Appeals Committee may consult with other units of the university, including, but not limited to, the University Health Center, the Disability Resource Center and the Office of Student Financial Aid when appropriate.
Decisions of the appeals committee will be communicated, in writing, within a reasonable time from the date that the appeal is reviewed by the committee.
Decisions of the appeals committee will be final.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Reply #9)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:34 AM

17. If you're on the farthest eastern edge of Gwinnett or DeKalb, maybe

otherwise that commute is suicidal when you combine driving time, traffic, parking on campus (people always fail to consider this) and walking time to class...Not to mention the possibility of another spike in fuel prices...

And I question the sanity of any freshman who wants to try commuting from goddamned FULTON CO.(!)

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #17)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:42 AM

20. so if you lived on Buford Hwy and went to Cross Keys High

 

you could jump on 85 at Clairmont ave. and you would be on campus in 1 hour. you could arrange your classes to be M-W-F and you are only commuting 3 days a week. This is very realistic and it should be an option without going to great lengths to have to get it done.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Reply #20)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:44 AM

21. Also being realistic, there is an appeals process.

If the reason for exemption is compelling enough, I am sure it is granted. This is not an uncommon practice around the country...both north and south.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Reply #20)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 11:09 AM

28. Or you could, you know, go to Georgia State



(I remember when Georgia State was still *just* a commuter school...)

If you that hellbent on a degree from UGA, maybe there is some kind of online distance learning program or whatever for you to do that first year...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #28)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 11:51 AM

30. a degree from UGA

 

is looked upon as better unfortunately. One of the things that I think is wrong to me about UGA and I hear it happen at all the "big" schools is the amount of TA's teaching courses. I for some odd reason think that courses should be taught by professors.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Reply #30)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 12:07 PM

31. That's a fallacy...No degrees are seen as better depending on university...

Yeah, the Ivys have a *slight* bump in prestige and clout, but it isn't anywhere near as much as you'd think...

I know it's difficult to believe (and I didn't when I was younger)...But trust me, the real world job market gives less than a shit about which college name is splayed across your diploma...They care about skills, experiences, and accomplishments...Small school or big school; places with the highest admission standards in the world versus places where pretty much anyone gets in -- If you show high achievement and ambition you'll be able to go far...

I speak from personal experience -- If you *really* want to go to UGA because of a certain program or because you love the atmosphere, or because you've always wanted to be a bulldog ever since childhood, then more power to you...If you want to attend UGA *only* because you believe a degree from there carries more weight than a similar one from Georgia State, then I suggest you re-evaluate your priorities...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #31)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 12:29 PM

32. I believe it helps in your first job

 

after that it is immaterial.It is your experience. I bet if you get your degree from UGA and you are competing with someone from University f North Georgia for the same job and interviews being equal the UGA person will be a leg up. One of the reasons is they are viewed as working harder through high school to get to a better school.
Once you are out in the job market it is all your experience.
Here is an interesting take. I have done some recruiting in my past for my company. I wear lot of hats and I am one of the first 6 in a company that now has over 500 people. Sales people in general have gone to mediocre colleges and talk about people who are judged in real terms more than anyone else in a company.
Secondly, I think the business curriculum is so outdated in college today. The business curriculum hasn't been updated for 40 years. Go out to almost any college and there isn't a single course in sales. Sales is only one of the most important functions in business. The business curriculum in college was built when we were a manufacturing nation.

Finally, the elite universities(MIT,Princeton, etc) certainly help you in post graduate degrees in law, medicine and research. My niece went to MIT and now she is a paid doctoral student at Yale. If you don't think MIT helped you are naive.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Reply #32)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 12:44 PM

33. I went to Morehouse

One of my girlfriends at the time went to Southern Poly...Her brother (who was the brainy kid in her family) went to GT...My ex-girlfriend's career path easily trumps mine and her brother's combined...

Yeah, when you're talking about grad degrees and higher, the "where" does mean a little more, but for B.A. or B.S. stuff, it's almost irrelevant...My mother was a university veep for decades...I work at a university now...One of my past job responsibilities has been to liaise with HR directors, hiring managers, job recruiters, etc. so I know ad nauseam what goes into the hiring decision process for several industries...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #33)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 12:53 PM

34. My wife used to recruit for the Federal Reserve system

 

at Morehouse,Florida A&M and Howard and they really liked the kids at Howard the most and the kids at Florida A&M the least. They thought the A&M kids were spoiled brats. That being said I only said the first job. My good friend teaches at Morehouse Medical school.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:31 AM

15. This is not uncommon for many schools.



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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:33 AM

16. All college expenses divied equally impact poorer students more


And yes, that means students of color will be impacted more.

But there are options. Usually, local kids can ask for waiver due to financial circumstances.

Students from other others can do their core at local nearby colleges and transfer in.

Great HS students can get the HOPE scholarship and pay only 90% of in-state tuition.


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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:36 AM

18. That's fairly typical for public colleges and universities.

It's based on a desire to keep freshmen on campus to help them adjust to college life. At most schools, students who live at home in the surrounding area are exempt from the requirement.

This rule was in place even back in the early 1960s, when I first went to college at a state college (later renamed to a university). Dorm residence was a requirement for both freshmen and sophomores, unless you lived with parents nearby (horror!).

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:58 AM

26. Usually most schools like the school I went to

Washington State University gave a waiver if the parent or legal guardian requested it, or student themselves had a valid reason for it but yes, I think that it does tend to segregate the wealthy from the poor

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 11:05 AM

27. I think you have it wrong

Freshman are not allowed to live off campus in an apartment but as long you live with your parents or guardians and live within a certain mileage of the school your fine and can commute. Living in an apartment even with roommates is not any cheaper than living in the dorms at least at public schools. This is the way it way at every school I looked at 4 years ago both in Illinois and out of state.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 02:23 PM

38. Scholaqrships/financial aid avail for Room & Board?

That Freshman on Campus experience is a great time to introduce diversity for anyone who has managed to stay isolated. I would much prefer programs to get low income and minority students into the dorm so that all students have a rich, diverse experience.

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