Nothing to see here. LAX shooter just an anti-government psycho.

[cthulu2016]

Last edited Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:32 PM - Edit history (1)

Just your basic 20-something with "strong anti-government views" assassinating government security officials at the airport.

Not "terrorism", of course.

Unlike Islamist terrorism, which requires shit-canning every liberty in sight, this sort of high-spirited patriotic gesture is really a celebration of our freedom... an expected event in any free society.

Nothing to see here.

On Edit: Several commenters correctly note that anti-government and right-wing are, despite their great overlap, not entirely synonymous, and that the shooter could have had sui generis crazy views, or even LW anti-government views, so I removed "RW" from the headline.

[badtoworse]

1. Asinine post, unless you know more than what's been reported.

[Rex]

7. Right, because when people have anti-government propaganda on them

it is for that OTHER reason...right?

[cthulu2016]

8. Asinine response unless you assume you know everything that has been reported

I do not know more than has been reported, but I seem to know more than you do.

All OP comments are based on pretty reliable (by the standards of such events, given the time frame) public reporting.

[badtoworse]

12. I've been looking at all the major news sources and they haven't even reported the shooters name

No mention of why he did it, if he's associated with any group or anything else other than that he's been shot and taken into custody.

You've got him as a RW fanatic, sarcasticaly calling it patriotic and you're making comparisons to our response to Islamic terrorism. Sorry, but absent more information, you're pretty far out there.

Maybe there's more info and I couldn't find it. Provide some links and I'll apologize for the asinine comment

[polichick]

13. msnbc has been reporting it for a while.

[arthritisR_US]

17. Change your channel from Fox to MSNBC and you'll see the coverage. nt

[polichick]

19. Zing!

[gopiscrap]

96. ouch

[Rex]

22. Paul Anthony Ciancia, age 23 per Pete Williams on MSNBC

nt.

[wercal]

41. I just searched for a facebook page for that name...

The first one that popped up was a man who 'used to work for TSA' and was in LA. He changed his profile pic 18 minutes ago.

This is weird...but there's a chance that Paul Ciancia is the victim's name.

[kestrel91316]

24. His name IS out there and it's also being widely reported that he holds

very strong anti-government views.

Wish the cops had suicided him if that's the case.

[jberryhill]

31. But what would make him "right wing"

I guess it depends on just what "anti government views" we're talking about.

[Rex]

33. True he could be a Blackhawk Lefty.

I have no idea what that is, but I saw someone type it here once and it sounds ominous and scary.

[ourfuneral]

43. AIEEEEEEEE!

[OnlinePoker]

48. He could also be an anarchist - someone who would definitely hate the government. n/t

[Rex]

51. My money is on a political libertarian.

Since they seem to want anarchy.

[gopiscrap]

97. me too

[starroute]

64. Anarchists these days are more anti-capitalist than anti-government

The violent ones destroy property, not people, and their favorite targets are things like Starbucks or the major banks.

[JDPriestly]

102. No. Anarchists don't like government.

Anarchist:
1. a person who believes in or tries to bring about anarchy.
synonyms: nihilist, insurgent, agitator, subversive, terrorist, revolutionary, revolutionist, insurrectionist More
"police said they arrested ten self-styled anarchists"

adjective
adjective: anarchist

1. relating to or supporting anarchy or anarchists.
"an anarchist newspaper"

https://www.google.com/webhp#q=anarchist+definition

Anarchy:

a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.
"he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy"
synonyms: lawlessness, nihilism, mobocracy, revolution, insurrection, disorder, chaos, mayhem, tumult, turmoil More

https://www.google.com/webhp#q=anarchy+definition

Anarchists don't want public order, i.e., government, police, etc. That's not the left. It's the right that constantly complains about the government.

[ret5hd]

81. Willing tobet a DU star on that?

[JDPriestly]

101. Leftists like government. Republicans accuse the left of liking big government too much.

Anarchists by definition do not like government. Therefore they are not leftists. They may look unkempt and resemble hippies, but politically they are not, by definition, on the left. If they fit any political category, it is probably libertarian.

[Dreamer Tatum]

34. It is reported he had a note on him

saying he wanted to kill TSA and "pigs".

[jberryhill]

39. Uh, that's a good piece of DU

I mean where would someone read things like that about TSA employees and police, and develop such an animus toward them?

I'm thinking these "anti government views" might be the somewhat paranoid sort one sees among both right wingers and left wingers of a certain persuasion. It is good to have canaries in the coal mine, but not so good when they turn into cuckoos.

[Aerows]

42. I thought the NSA was supposed to look for these sorts.

All that data and they can't find someone with anti-government sentiments blasting up LAX? They get paid way too much.

[Bonhomme Richard]

58. The NSA is busy protecting business interest.

Priorities.

[gopiscrap]

98. yup

[ret5hd]

82. Willing to bet a DU star on which end of the political spectrum he was on?

I'm pickin' RW'er. What about you?

Yeah, I thought so.

[jberryhill]

83. I'll go with some variety of libertarian nut

[ret5hd]

88. Meaning a RW'er, right?

[jberryhill]

92. These days mostly it does

But there is nutjobbery which draws from every political stripe. Why does DU have a rule against going too far into "Crazytown" or talking about chemtrails? Because there are nutty things people believe, and are believed by nutty people across the spectrum.

But some people seem to get offended when you think it might be a lone nut. It's almost like they think you are talking about them personally.

They should chip in and put out a press release: "The Lone Nut Anti-Defamation League deplores what happened today, and we'll probably never know the truth that it wasn't a lone nut, because the powers that be will cover it all up."

[Doctor_J]

70. yeah because so many antigovernment liberals shoot up airports

[JDPriestly]

77. Has it EVER happened?

The problem with claiming that lefties are violent is that being on the left nowadays means leaning toward pacifism, opposing guns, favoring public education, public health care, the EPA and all kinds of things that only government can do.

Lefties oppose the excesses of the private sphere. So I feel safe saying that this shooter was not on the left.

It's the small government crowd or the foreign terrorists who shoot at airports.

Anti-war, anti-guns, pro-government this guy apparently was not.

[AtheistCrusader]

79. There are different blends of left and right.

Not all of either are pro-government or anti-government.

For instance, a lot of right wingers want government big enough to jam an ultrasound probe right up inside a woman, to discourage an abortion, for a child they won't give a flying fuck about after it is born.

There's a lot of back and forth on whether assholes like Jared Loughner are left or right, and on which issues and why.

I don't know that we can really pin down the emotionally unstable, beyond what sort of content that may have been spoonfed to them to instill hate.

I care less about an individual's personal politics, and more about what news they watch/listen to.

[JDPriestly]

84. The folks who want a violent release are not likely to put up with the intricate arguments of

Rachel Maddow. They want the sneers and easy answers of Fox News.

You can have people who are crazy who have a lot of conspiracy theories. I love conspiracy theories myself (although I don't necessarily believe them but rather find them intriguing like others find novels intriguing) but it takes a slight ability to calm your thoughts and follow a coherent thread of logic to arrive at liberal solutions to problems.

Compare to the right-wing, knee-jerk, shoot 'em and let God decide philosophy.

There is a big difference.

[AtheistCrusader]

91. True enough, and that is a good contrast, thank you.

[Doctor_J]

94. yes, Ted Cruz Leftists are especially dangerous

It's the new BOG boogeyman. For some reason leftist has become an epithet there just like at freeperville.

[arcane1]

85. Lefties are violent and dangerous thugs, and also pansy-ass weaklings who can't even bait a hook.

Righties have no problem making both of those claims, and do so all the time. They have the doublethink thing to perfection

[Doctor_J]

95. no but the gun nuts don't want to be associated with "the right", so they

always throw up that smoke screen after a shooting.

[stonecutter357]

53. Fox ^^^^^^^

[Major Nikon]

75. Here's what we do know

A man was arrested carrying a .223 caliber assault rifle and anti-government written materials, and asked for TSA before he started shooting.

Doesn't seem that far out to me. YMMV.

[polichick]

2. msnbc just reported his name and that he was carrying anti-gov't material...

Paul Anthony Ciancia (sp?)

[NightWatcher]

3. CIA n CIA. It's a government false flag OP

Ha, I beat A Jones to the punch line.

[polichick]

5. lol

[Scuba]

25. DUzy!!!

[madrchsod]

27. +1

[jberryhill]

32. Did he have a copy of Catcher In The Rye?

[rdharma]

111. I think you are correct.

Waiting to hear what Alex Jones will be saying Monday.

[Kingofalldems]

4. Yep

From a Luke Russert tweet "...apparently had strong anti government views."

[polichick]

9. Age 23, living in LA, now in critical condition, 1 TSA empl. dead, 3 wounded

[arcane1]

14. "anti-gov't material" seems pretty vague.

Will they be letting us know what the material was?

[polichick]

15. Eventually someone will leak it, even though major media outlets will probably...

try to cover it up.

[KY5]

6. Figures.

Anti-government types have a higher propensity for taking violent action than the average person.

[polichick]

10. Maybe because they are also easily whipped into a fearful panic by sociopaths.

[KY5]

16. Whipped into a fearful panic by anti-govt propaganda that permeates the media and Internet.

People use extreme rhetoric to describe government actions they dislike and provoke this kind of violence.

Everyone needs to dial it down a few notches, no matter the issue.

[polichick]

18. I think some of these guys are true sociopaths...

guys like limpballs and Beck.

They need to "dial it down" but others need to call them out for what they are. Eskimos used to shove sociopaths under the ice because they knew what a threat they are to society - in America we give them huge paychecks and huge spotlights. Crazy.

[KY5]

20. Absolutely.

Limbaugh types have poisoned everything.

[jberryhill]

35. ...and that's just DU!

What if the guy thought TSA employees are jackbooted fascist thugs who like to fondle people and get off on looking at body scans.

[Rex]

44. So some Teabaggers and DUers share something in common?

Is that what you are saying in a very round about way?

[jberryhill]

47. Any group subset has things in common with another group subset

If I said I read that TSA employees were thuggish enforcers of an anti-Constitutional regime, would you assume I was reading DU or Free Republic?

[Rex]

50. But does that mean both groups have the propensity for violence?

Do both groups handle their frustrations in the same way? They might have a lot in common, but can you name me some shooters that had radical left ideology in their possession?

Do you know of any radical left wing ideology that calls for a violent overthrow of the government? And any one that actually tried?

[jberryhill]

54. Paranoid individuals can be violent

It's not even a function of ideology, so much as a paranoid engagement with it.

Can you remind me what Guy Fawkes was famous for?

[Rex]

56. So no, not really, you cannot name anyone from the Left that

went on a killing spree like this gent did.

[jberryhill]

61. No, that is not correct

But simply because, say, the SLA goes on a shooting and crime spree doesn't have anything to do with them being leftists, as much as it has to do with them being paranoid. They killed a guy because they were upset about issuing school ID cards.

There is always some awful government plan to destroy the Constitution, and there are people who are always seeing the camel's back break.

[JDPriestly]

78. The SLA was 40 years ago. Anyone within the last 30 years?

People on the left are, by definition, peaceful. There is no equal to the craziness and hatred on the right. None whatsoever. Foreign terrorists and right-wingers act out in these violent ways.

Democrats don't think that way.

I am reminded of the book, The Lost City. The right-wingers just came into peaceful socialist areas in Vienna and started killing people.

The French Resistance was violent. Communists are violent. But we don't have a war going on, and the Communists in this country are not organized to perform violent acts. The left has nothin to gain through violence. Even leftist crazies are aware of that fact.

If they found some indication this guy was on the left, I would question that very seriously. Too clean-cut from the reports I heard on the local LA news to be a leftie.

[starroute]

62. Guy Fawkes was famous for being a right-wing conspirator

The Gunpowder Plot was intended to assassinate King James I and restore Catholic rule to England.

So your point is?

[jberryhill]

63. You think all the young 'uns with the Guy Fawkes' masks are RWers?

[starroute]

66. The meaning of the Guy Fawkes image got changed by way of V for Vendetta

Go complain to Alan Moore if you don't like it.

[jberryhill]

67. Yeah, but he tried to blow shit up

That much is made clear to the audience.

[starroute]

93. The graphic novel came out in 1982, the film in 2005

And in all that time, I don't believe that any anarchists have cited it as inspiration for blowing stuff up.

[jberryhill]

103. Adopting a terrorist as one's mascot sends a certain "vibe"

I mean, sure, if I were to parade around in a Charles Manson mask, you might not immediately understand that it's because I support indie musicians, and wonder about that camping trip your daughter wants to take with me.

[starroute]

105. Charles Manson didn't live 400 years ago

And he hasn't been turned into a folkloric figure and mingled with all the spooks and witches of Halloween.

These things make a difference. Or do you really believe that people who dress up as Dracula for the season are expressing a desire to emulate Vlad the Impaler?

[jberryhill]

106. I had no idea the Guy Fawkes mask folks were looking for candy

Nor had I known the frequency with which people dress up as Dracula for the purpose of political protest.

[JDPriestly]

80. They didn't bring guns and shoot at people.

That is a huge, huge difference.

They were destructive. But it was the police who had the guns, not the folks with Guy Fawkes masks.

And I believe the folks in the US who wore Guy Fawkes masks and were destructive had been attacked by the police for demonstrating prior to the violence.

This guy apparently did not wear a mask of any kind and came with a gun.

I don't recall people with Guy Fawkes masks being arrested with guns. I don't recall people with Guy Fawkes masks shooting at anyone.

Do you?

I'd love to see the link.

[JI7]

65. there are right wing trolls on DU

[pintobean]

69. There are also

LEO haters. Lots of them.

[Doctor_J]

71. yes the current supreme insult in the BOG is "Ted Cruz leftist"

Not kidding.

[Rex]

100. I looked the BOG over yesterday.

Mostly just hosts talking to each other now.

[indepat]

36. Some gotta' take the gipper's "government is the problem" idiotic right-wing

malarkey/rhetoric in their own hands. All hail the mighty gipper so his deification can be finalized.

[gopiscrap]

99. yup so much of this is fucking ronald reagans fault

[RandiFan1290]

11. Another Glenn Beck fan like Byron Williams?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/30/AR2010073003254.html

[Spitfire of ATJ]

21. Bookmark and add this event to the list...

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/violence-directed-liberal-and-govern

[pinboy3niner]

23. CNN: "We're getting some more information in on the shooter's motive and we'll have that next."

Coming up after the break.

[Cali_Democrat]

26. So...

What did they say?

[pinboy3niner]

28. False tease alarm--just more speculation. They weren't even caught up with MSNBC yet.

[Cali_Democrat]

30. LOL. Typical CNN

Is Wolf there?

Good lawd he's awful.

[Sedona]

29. Photo of gun in question

Anyone from the gungeon care to identify it?

I see one magazine in the gun and one on the floor next to it.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[datasuspect]

37. that's a free range Uhhhmerican doofus

can't tell if it's an alpha belly though.

[AtheistCrusader]

74. Gallows humor crew steps up, hits it out of the park.

Nicely done.

[Gravitycollapse]

52. It almost looks like a modified Mini-14. But it's really hard to tell at that angle.

It's likely an AR derivative of some kind.

[AtheistCrusader]

73. Late model AR/M4

Ejection port looks open.

[Demo_Chris]

68. Folding stock Mini 14 or Mini 30 I think. nt

[AtheistCrusader]

76. AR/M4.

It's pretty fuzzy, but reasonably sure I own the same rifle with a carry handle, that's just a flat top.

There's no mag in it. That's the grip. The one on the ground was likely in it when they took the shooter down. Someone yanked it out when they disarmed him.

Edit: Or he flubbed a reload right when he got shot.

[Blue_In_AK]

38. All I've seen reported

is that he was carrying anti-government literature. Lots of people on both the left and right hate the TSA. I don't think we can jump to conclusions yet.

[Aerows]

40. Thank heavens the NSA

could warn us about this before it happened. You know, since he was anti-government and that is supposedly what they look for.

[ourfuneral]

45. A place called LAX has lax security

[Mr.Bill]

49. If they changed the name of LAX

it would then be the EX-LAX airport.

[Dopers_Greed]

46. Responsible gun owner

[awoke_in_2003]

55. Not a terrorist?...

must be a white guy. Kind of like NFL players. Good African American football players are called "athletic". Good white football players are call "hard working", "intelligent" or "lunch pail kind of guys". If you don't believe me, just listen to a game. It happens all the time. I never noticed it until a local sports station started highlighting this.

[Rex]

57. Ever notice how the M$M does everything in it's power to keep from

talking about white, domestic terrorists? It is like they are scared to bring it up.

[awoke_in_2003]

59. Yep, I have noticed it...

we must be scared of people with non-white skin.

[Rex]

60. It is how the NRA makes $$$$.

FUD sells bullets.

[Lamonte]

72. LAX

How many think the shooter was a liberal?

[ret5hd]

87. Several here, not me...

I've challenged them to bet a DU star, but we will see what happens. I don't think they will take me up on it. In fact, I think they KNOW it would be a losing bet.

[Cryptoad]

89. I am sitll waiting for the names of these armed Liberal groups seeking 2nd amend solutions,,,

[Pantagruelsmember]

86. A little snark copied from Yahoo

"NRA comment on LAX shooter

" Once again the insanity of disarming America is demonstrated in a real life tragedy. This foolish policy of not allowing guns on planes and in airports must stop. Had the public been allowed to be armed at LAX, the shooter would have been confronted with an armed response of tens if not hundreds returning fire.Think of the possibilities. More guns is the answer, not less."

This public service brought to you by the gun manufacturers of America and their friends at the GOP."

[Cryptoad]

90. Amazing to me how many

NRA Defenders there are here.

[Paladin]

104. One of my old school acquaintances is a big-time Tea Partier, now.

She showed up on Facebook yesterday, talking about how relieved she was that some of her relatives made it through LAX, unharmed. This is a woman who never, ever expresses anything but rabid hatred for government, be it the occupant of the White House or airport security personnel. Talk about cause and effect......

[IronLionZion]

107. I've had this exact conversation with Republicans

only they were serious. They say the same things about Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph and the white guys in Boston and of course all the mass shootings except for fort hood.

[rdharma]

108. I don't know why you removed the "RWNJ" verbage from your OP......

You were spot-on! http://splcenter.org/blog/2013/11/02/hatewatch-exclusive-alleged-lax-shooter-referenced-patriot-conspiracy-theories/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[pampango]

109. "... references to the “New World Order,” the Federal Reserve and “fiat currency" ..."

The 23-year-old man who allegedly killed a TSA official at Los Angeles International Airport yesterday was carrying a one-page “manifesto” that included references to the “New World Order,” the Federal Reserve and “fiat currency,” according to a knowledgeable source with ranking law enforcement contacts.

Paul Anthony Ciancia, who allegedly wounded three other TSA workers before being shot and critically wounded himself, also expressed antagonism toward the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and its chief until she resigned in August, Janet Napolitano, the source said. Ciancia’s note called former Secretary Napolitano a “bull dyke” and contained the phrase “FU Janet Napolitano,” the source said.

Ciancia’s language and references seemed to put him squarely in the conspiracy-minded world of the antigovernment “Patriot” movement. The New World Order refers to a longstanding conspiracy theory that today, in its most popular iteration, claims that global elites are plotting to form a socialistic “one-world government” that would crush American freedoms. Often, the root of the alleged conspiracy is traced to the 1913 creation of the Federal Reserve and the adoption of fiat currency — paper money that is not backed by gold, as it was once was in the U.S.

The attack, which Ciancia allegedly carried out using a semi-automatic 223-caliber AR-15, comes at a time when the Patriot movement has been growing by leaps and bounds, from some 149 groups in 2008 to 1,360 last year, according to counts by the Southern Poverty Law Center. That explosive growth seems to have been driven by the election of our first black president and the approaching loss of a white majority in the U.S. that he represents. Another driver is the crash of the economy, which coincided neatly with the rise to national power of President Obama.

[rdharma]

110. This freak's ideology is straight from the Alex Jones School of Nutjobbery! nt