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Tue Dec 10, 2013, 12:48 PM

JFK Remembered: Dan Rather and James Swanson talk at The Henry Ford

On Monday, Nov. 18, I visited The Henry Ford – official short form for the Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village – to hear newsman Dan Rather and author James L. Swanson discuss their memories of President John F. Kennedy. Historian Doug Brinkley was to be the moderator, but he fell ill and had to cancel. One of the kind people from the museum served in his stead. It was a most interesting evening, not just for what they said, but also for what they failed to bring to the public’s attention.

[font size="1"]The image is a detail from a photo by Ann Zaniewski of The Detroit Free Press.[/font size]

Dan Rather's Side of Things

Entitled “JFK Remembered,” the program opened with a few minutes of vintage news clips taking us back to Dallas and that awful day. Walter Cronkite in shirtsleeves popped up on the big screen:

“Here’s a bulletin from CBS News. In Dallas, Texas, three shots were fired at President Kennedy’s motorcade in downtown Dallas. The first reports say that President Kennedy has been seriously wounded by this shooting. More details as they arrive.

Dan Rather narrated some video footage in “rough cut form” from Parkland Hospital. There was a great deal of disbelief that President had been shot – even more disbelief that he was dead, he recalled. Rather closed with an eyewitness quote of what Jacqueline Kennedy was overheard saying there: “Jack... Jack... No. No.’”

Dan Rather opened his remarks by thanking “legendary” Secret Service Agent Clint Hill, a “bona fide, certified American hero” who was in the audience. Hill got a long standing ovation, deserved, as he was about the one agent that day who actually tried to protect President and Mrs. Kennedy.

Among its historic collection, The Henry Ford houses the bus in which Rosa Parks rode and refused to give up her seat to a white man on Dec. 1, 1955. It also houses the Lincoln Continental limousine in which President Kennedy rode to his death on November 22, 1963. That car was about 90-feet away from Dan Rather.

“I don’t think that the word is ‘eerie,’” Mr. Rather said. “But, there is a different feeling over here– James and I were discussing – being only a few yards from the limousine that carried President Kennedy, as it turned out, to his death.”

The marquee star of the show, Mr. Rather discussed his own history as a cub reporter in Houston, where he cut his teeth covering Texas politics, in particular, following the career of Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson. Mr. Rather detailed how few in the mid-1950s had heard mention about John Kennedy. After the Democratic convention in 1956, the “first nominating convention,” Sen. Kennedy rose in public awareness. Rather said JFK made “very strong eye contact” and he immediately made every person with whom he came in contact feel as if they were the center of his attention.

After that, the newsman’s memories included how the good-looking, witty, self-deprecating Roman Catholic, little-known Senator from a small state would rise to stardom, “the first movie star President.” JFK was a man of the sea and viewed outer space as the new ocean to be explored. JFK had only 1,000 days as president, Mr. Rather said, without adding how much the guy got accomplished. If he’d had another term, he might’ve been a “transformative” president, he did say.

“I didn’t believe that the assassination of the President, was not only, it never entered my mind. Yes, he thought there might be difficulty in Dallas. Our journalistic assessment, if there was going to be difficulty in Dallas, in Texas on this trip, it’s likely to be in Dallas. Nobody thought about assassination… Yes, there had been talk that there might be difficulty in Texas and that Dallas would be. But no one thought about assassination.”

He left out almost all of the controversial parts of the assassination story, including one really important part: His own role at Dealey Plaza. Mr. Rather failed to mention, let alone explain, why he was standing past the triple-underpass, where he was expected to catch a film bag tossed from the passing press bus.

Instead, as he had earlier recollected in print, Mr. Rather managed to get back to the CBS studio in Dallas, where he later managed to view the Zapruder film, which he said “clearly” showed President Kennedy’s head snapping forward, showing a shot from the rear. That bothered me when I first read it; that bothers me today upon writing it, as that is the opposite of what the film show. For those interested, here’s what Penn Jones found Dan was doing.

(Here's the article in PDF form. Like film, it lasts longer: http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-jones/id/1917 )

Next to speak was an attorney, author and scholar.

James L. Swanson, His Memory

Author James Swanson was a lad of four living in northwest Chicago when the horrible news came. He said he recollected that a neighbor child, whose home had no television, came over to watch television.

Mr. Swanson discussed writing his latest book, “End of Days: The Assassination of John F. Kennedy,” a record of the last days of “Camelot,” as viewed through the eyes and the rationally imagined thoughts of President Kennedy and “his assassin,” Lee Harvey Oswald. A non-thorough GOOGLE revealed critics in the mainstream press generally have given the book a thumbs-up. See here for one example.

The book is published by Harper Collins. While the publisher often is mentioned in the press coverage of the tome, what never seems to get mentioned is the fact Harper Collins also is the publishing division of Rupert Murdoch’s Newscorp. Small world.

Mr. Swanson, in his address at The Henry Ford, mentioned that Jacqueline Kennedy wanted, as her ideal job, to be “art director for the 20th century.” Following William Manchester, he said the First Lady was the reason the period has become known as Camelot. Mr. Swanson made clear that President Kennedy was at fault for the Bay of Pigs, but accepted blame for it. He did not mention the roles of Allen Dulles, the CIA and the Pentagon in the disaster.

Mr. Swanson also detailed in the investigation following Dallas, Oswald’s by-then widow Marina had said Oswald had confessed to shooting at Lt. Gen. Edwin Walker, a staunch anti-communist and right-wing zealot who had been cashiered from the Army by President Kennedy. Unfortunately, for some reason, Mr. Swanson did not mention that no tapes were made of what Marina Oswald actually told to FBI and Secret Service interviewers – just their “translations” were recorded. And, perhaps because the book centers around those “end of days,” no mention was made about what Marina Oswald now says.

Also unmentioned is Mr. Swanson’s sinecure with the Cato Institute, a think tank started with funding from the brothers Koch. Again, unmentioned is Mr. Swanson’s recent work to “claim” JFK actually was a conservative in no way liberal. See his article here.

Odd perspective, in my opinion. Knowing JFK was a Democrat in the tradition of President Franklin D. Roosevelt, I recalled he, as a U.S. Representative and as a U.S. Senator, had publicly stood on the side of the nationalist movements rising in opposition to the old colonialist powers throughout the developing world. Domestically, I thought JFK’s positions on equal rights, civil rights, economic justice putting people over profits, funding the arts, developing science and technology for the public good, and peace before going to war were liberal attributes.

Mr. Swanson also said President Kennedy told Mrs. Kennedy that morning in their hotel room in Fort Worth: “’What would stop a man with a rifle in a tall building from assassinating me? Nothing. So, why worry about it?’ Little did he know that when he spoke those words a man was already waiting for him in a tall building in Dallas.”

Mr. Swanson stated he believes the Warren Commission report is correct: Lee Harvey Oswald acting alone shot and killed President Kennedy. Swanson elaborated on Oswald’s record as an outstanding marksman in the U.S. Marine Corps and added what an easy shot it was for him from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, seeing how the hill down which the car drove somehow helped line up a straight shot for the assassin’s third and final bullet.

Excerpt from Mr. Swanon's remarks:

...I’ll say something about conspiracies, not to get into the detail about why we should stop thinking about them. Of course, it was Oswald. Of course, he fired the three shots from the Texas School Book Depository. Of course, the three fellow workers on the floor below him heard the gun shots above their heads and the brass cartridge cases bounce on the floor above them.

I’m not going to argue that now. I’m not going to get into: Was it the FBI? Was it the Secret Service? Was it Naval Intelligence? Was it the Cubans? Was it the Russians? Was it, ah, Lyndon Johnson? Was it the Texas oil men? Of course it wasn’t them. But, here’s what will save us some time: They have distracted us from the true importance of that day. On a bright, sunny fall day in Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963, a wonderful woman and wife lost her husband. Two little children lost their father. And America lost its president.

And I find it almost obscene to continue these fantasies of grassy knolls and government coming out of manhole covers, of double Oswalds sent back from the Soviet Union. Some of these defamatory so-called conspiracy theories have even said the Secret Service shot the President that day. It’s an outrage. It’s a defamatory outrage. Every one of those men would sacrifice his life to save the President or Jackie. Of course they would do that.

I think it’s time on the fiftieth anniversary and in the future to realize that none of those conspiracies has ever been proven. It was Oswald. Dozens of pieces of evidence show that. The motives are interesting, I think some of you will remember them.

Lee Harvey Oswald would be thrilled today – say the name – would be thrilled today, to know that he is one of the most famous men in the world. And that’s why we should use the occasion of this anniversary to remember the true hero of that day, John Kennedy. John Kennedy was a great man. He was a great American patriot. He believed in American exceptionalism, optimism, and promise. With every fiber of his being, he believed America was the greatest country in the world. And he would have helped it, I’m certain. And that’s how we should think of him. Don’t think of this Friday as Oswald’s day. Think of this as the day to remember the real John Kennedy...

I noticed Swanson, nor Dan Rather, nor anyone in the audience whose questions got asked at the presentation, mentioned the Central Intelligence Agency nor its long-time director, Allen Dulles. Too bad, as the CIA's actions (and non-actions, see the Jefferson Morley) need to be addressed, for the documentary record shows the CIA and its partner in assassination, the Mafia, have never been held to public account for lying to President Kennedy, lying to the Warren Commission, and lying to Congress and the American people -- specifically about its assassination programs.

One thing I am glad Mr. Swanson mentioned. He made clear he was proud to be associated with Ronald Reagan, for whom he had worked in the White House. It's not clear from the biographies of the guy I've found online, but he also seems to have worked for the two Bush presidencies.

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Reply JFK Remembered: Dan Rather and James Swanson talk at The Henry Ford (Original post)
Octafish Dec 2013 OP
bobthedrummer Dec 2013 #1
Octafish Dec 2013 #4
KurtNYC Dec 2013 #2
Octafish Dec 2013 #6
MinM Dec 2013 #9
MinM Dec 2013 #10
Octafish Dec 2013 #12
Octafish Dec 2013 #17
MinM Dec 2013 #22
Octafish Dec 2013 #23
Octafish Dec 2013 #11
robertpaulsen Dec 2013 #3
Octafish Dec 2013 #7
Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #5
Octafish Dec 2013 #8
deutsey Dec 2013 #13
Octafish Dec 2013 #14
Mc Mike Dec 2013 #20
Octafish Dec 2013 #21
Mc Mike Dec 2013 #24
Octafish Dec 2013 #25
Mc Mike Dec 2013 #26
Mc Mike Dec 2013 #27
bobthedrummer Dec 2013 #15
Octafish Dec 2013 #16
Archae Dec 2013 #18
Octafish Dec 2013 #19

Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Dec 10, 2013, 03:07 PM

1. No one wants to question the Full Spectrum Dominance of The Fourth Estate here, or so it seems. n/t


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Response to bobthedrummer (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 10, 2013, 11:59 PM

4. The BFEE Octopus - - Spanning the Globe Since November 22, 1963.

The only thing that can stop the warmongers and banksters of that Satanic line are people who know what's up and stand up to them. Smedley Butler was one. Thank you for being another one, bobthedrummer. Even when you were alone and these traitors worked to destroy everything that matters, you spit in their eye and told the truth.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Dec 10, 2013, 03:43 PM

2. Mark Lane recently revisited the 5.6 seconds that the Secret Service had to react

The standard procedure in an open car would be to get on top of the President when the first shot is fired. Many people can run 50 yards in 5.6 seconds. These guys only needed to move about 4 feet. That first shot that misses everything was a very lucky break for JFK and one that should have saved him that day. How (much more) unbelievable would it have been for Jack Ruby to take 5.6 seconds and 3 or 4 shots to shoot Oswald, while everyone did nothing?

They talk about the lack of movement by the agents assigned to protecting JFK toward the end of this clip which deals mostly with the open racism directed at Bolden:

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Response to KurtNYC (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 11, 2013, 10:11 AM

6. ''Mr. Bolden. I see you made it here.''

Thank you for that important clip, KurtNYC. I had not seen it. If you get a moment, please let us know more about it.

For those new to the subject: Secret Service Agent Abraham Bolden is someone IMPORTANT to know. The first African American on WH Detail, he is a witness to the conspiracy and he is still alive.

Abraham Bolden speaks at JFK Lancer.

The story of a man who told the truth:

After 45 Years, a Civil Rights Hero Waits for Justice

Thom Hartmann
June 12, 2009 11:52 AM

A great miscarriage of justice has kept most Americas from learning about a Civil Rights pioneer who worked with President John F. Kennedy. But there is finally a way for citizens to not only right that wrong, but bring closure to the most tragic chapter of American presidential history.

After an outstanding career in law enforcement, Abraham Bolden was appointed by JFK to be the first African American presidential Secret Service agent, where he served with distinction. He was part of the Secret Service effort that prevented JFK's assassination in Chicago, three weeks before Dallas. But Bolden was framed by the Mafia and arrested on the very day he went to Washington to tell the Warren Commission staff about the Chicago attempt against JFK.

Bolden was sentenced to six years in prison, despite glaring problems with his prosecution. His arrest resulted from accusations by two criminals Bolden had sent to prison. In Bolden's first trial, an apparently biased judge told the jury that Bolden was guilty, even before they began their deliberations. Though granted a new trial because of that, the same problematic judge was assigned to oversee Bolden's second trial, which resulted in his conviction. Later, the main witness against Bolden admitted committing perjury against him. A key member of the prosecution even took the fifth when asked about the perjury. Yet Bolden's appeals were denied, and he had to serve hard time in prison, and today is considered a convicted felon.

After the release of four million pages of JFK assassination files in the 1990s, it became clear that Bolden -- and the official secrecy surrounding the Chicago attempt against JFK -- were due to National Security concerns about Cuba, that were unknown to Bolden, the press, Congress, and the public not just in 1963, but for the next four decades.


Abraham Bolden paid a heavy price for trying to tell the truth about events involving the man he was sworn to protect -- JFK -- that became mired in National Security concerns. Bolden still lives in Chicago, and has never given up trying to clear his name.

Will Abraham Bolden live to finally see the justice so long denied to him?



Abraham BOLDEN: an important eyewitness to what was happening within the Secret Service in 1963 who the newspapers and tee vee stations are ignoring.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 11, 2013, 01:04 PM

9. Speaking of Abraham Bolden and the Secret Service

Will there be consequences for letting this impostor get so close to President Obama?


Secret Service's Sordid History

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Response to MinM (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 12, 2013, 09:09 AM

10. "fake" sign language interpreter claims he was hallucinating

This story gets curiouser and curiouser...

@Gawker: The "fake" sign language interpreter at Mandela's memorial claims he was hallucinating during the ceremony.

Even the fine folks at FoxNews are 'concerned':
@FoxNews: Sign language interpreter for #Mandela memorial says he often becomes 'violent':

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Response to MinM (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 12, 2013, 09:18 AM

12. Then there are the nice people who just happen to show up without a ticket...

Crashers Met Obama, Secret Service Apologizes

Thank you for the details, MinM. This is an incredible breech of security, considering how much we know and pay.

Odd to see Fox News on the case. Does Rupert have a pending hearing?

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Response to MinM (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 14, 2013, 11:13 AM

17. Man who faked sign language at Mandela memorial has faced murder, other charges

Man who faked sign language at Mandela memorial has faced murder, other charges

Source: Washington Post

JOHANNESBURG — The sign language interpreter who gestured meaninglessly at the Nelson Mandela memorial in South Africa on Tuesday has faced charges of murder, rape, theft, breaking and entering, malicious damage to property and kidnapping, according to eNCA.com.

The South African news site said the outcome of the murder charge against Thamsanqa Jantjie, brought in 2003, was unknown because the court case file is “mysteriously empty.”

Many of the other charges against Jantjie, dating back to 1994, were eventually dropped, eNCA reported, because he was deemed mentally unfit to stand trial. Jantjie was acquitted in the rape case.

But the independent news site said Jantjie was convicted of theft in a 1995 case and sentenced to three years in prison, although it is not clear whether he ever served any of that time.



Tip o' the hat to the DUer IDemo for the heads-up on what's beginning to look a lot like an MKULTRA made man.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:31 AM

22. Holy hell--The bogus Mandela signer allegedly helped burn men to death:

@Slate: Holy hell--The bogus Mandela signer allegedly helped burn men to death:

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Response to MinM (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 12, 2013, 09:11 AM

11. Incredible!

It's easy to joke about this guy being a sign, but what he represents is no laughing matter:

Remember the good time the Detail had in Colombia a while back? Then, there's the now-former agent who was found passed out drunk on the sidewalk in Miami. Then, there's the racist environment in the secret service that appears to have existed right up until the current administration. These are just a few incidents that have become public.

Who knows what goes on -- or doesn't go on? With the US Secret Servive, the history shows it's more than incompetence.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Dec 10, 2013, 04:50 PM

3. I wonder if DiEugenio or someone at CTKA will review Swanson's book.

I always appreciate their detailed dissections, especially of Warren Commission defenders.

Thanks again for your great reports, Octafish! Frankly, the only "obscenity" to me is when people supposedly trying to honor "the real John Kennedy" try to paint him as a conservative, rather than the liberal he actually was. Shame on Mr. Swanson for propagating that falsehood.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 11, 2013, 10:16 AM

7. Poor Swanson wouldn't know what hit him. And he's chums with Ed Meese.

James L. Swanson is Senior Legal Scholar in the Edwin Meese III Center for Legal and Judicial Studies at The Heritage Foundation

SOURCE: http://www.heritage.org/events/2013/11/end-of-days

Why is that odd for a stink tanker?

PS: DiEugenio would go DESTROY ALL MONSTERS all over "Swanon's" "history." I'm picking up a copy as soon as it makes it to dollar table outside Barnes and Noble.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Wed Dec 11, 2013, 02:08 AM

5. Now I understand the whole thing.

JFK was so hated by so many conservatives everywhere, because he was... a conservative!

Sure, of course. And that explains why conservatives also hate conservatives like the Bushes and Reagan so much too.

Oh, wait.

(Just when you think this era can't possibly get any stupider, by golly, it does.)

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 11, 2013, 11:47 AM

8. They're trying to put an ''End of Days'' on liberal ideas and the New Deal...

The Cato Institute, which with the Heritage Foundation also seems to provide dear author Swanson a sinecure, was started with Koch Brothers funding. Kochs, of course, got their money from dear old dad, who helped start the John Birch society. Surprising history, considering how he got his money off government contracts and selling the Soviet Union oil drilling apparatus and such.

So if conservatives -- the bankster and warmonger class of Have-Mores serviced by the BFEE -- can lay claim on JFK, they can grab the attention of a surprising number of people and say JFK was "a real conservative, just like them." Works wonders -- especially on people who don't like to read.

ETA: Even the title of Swanson's book omits the fact the guy's title is PRESIDENT John F. Kennedy. Smart propagandists, they are -- the best money can buy.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Thu Dec 12, 2013, 09:30 AM

13. Rather's description of the headshot was a baldface lie

I can't access YouTube at the moment, but the original clip of Rather's report is on there.

As anyone who has seen the Zapruder film now knows, there's no way in hell that anyone would say that Kennedy's "went forward with considerable violence." Rather even leans forward to illustrate his lie.

I wonder if CBS ever includes that clip in any of its annual "remembrances" along with Cronkite choking up.

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Response to deutsey (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 12, 2013, 10:07 AM

14. Dan Rather reports...

As to why Jacqueline Kennedy was "almost on all fours" on the trunk:
She was trying to retrieve a piece of her husband's skull.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 14, 2013, 02:11 PM

20. You posted a couple of informative sub-threads in your o.p. s

in February this year and last November. One relates to this lie Rather was caught telling, and the other dealt with the motorcade route.

The first sub-thread had Bertrand Russell's reaction to the official story, the discussion of 'JFK shot from front', vs. 'shot from rear'. I tried the '16 questions' link you posted as a subthread in Feb, and couldn't get it to load, but it discussed the evolving and changing 'official story' which started by claiming that 'Kennedy was shot on Houston St.' as he approached the TSBD. If they could have held on to this first trial balloon official story, it would have explained the obvious frontal wounds to Kennedy. (Lord Russell's question #8.) Too many witnesses and too much evidence made that story untenable, so they had to admit Kennedy was on Elm when he was shot, therefore they moved the car to the correct position, and started lying that 'it was observable that Kennedy was shot from behind'. Which gives us Rather and the WC 'proving' a 'snap to the front' when Kennedy is shot in the head. Then that part of the 'official story' was shown to be bull hockey, so we now have the WC official story advocates moving on to the ridiculous 'physics' notion that a rear shot will cause the head to snap backwards violently.

They have had to keep changing the story to make it seem plausible, which makes me wonder how any 'official story' advocates can possibly pretend to argue from a position of being 'grounded in reality', and opposing the 'fanciful divorced from reality woo', of people that don't buy the official story.

My memory of one of your Russell posts was that he was describing his experience, being in England and hearing the initial news saying Kennedy was shot from the front, but I could be incorrect. The working 16 questions link that I found ( http://22november1963.org.uk/bertrand-russell-16-questions-on-the-assassination ) didn't have any personal story from Lord Russell in it, but maybe one of your links had more of a personal narrative from him, in addition to the questions.

Anyway, question # 7 in the '16 questions' link discussed the last minute route motorcade route detour, which put the President on the dangerous double turn route right beside the building where the lone nut had recently obtained a job, thanks to Ruth Paine. This ties into another informative subthread link you posted from last November, which showed that there was a route that hit the freeway from Commerce St., instead of going through the dangerous double turn. And Hepburn's book Farewell America said that Sen. Yarborough could remember being in previous motorcades which accessed the Stemmons Freeway ramp from Main instead of Elm, making a right by the 'no turns' sign, because traffic was stopped for the motorcade anyway. That's two other routes that avoided the dangerous double turn in the one area that was surrounded by high buildings.

In your last November o.p., I recall the WC advocates 'proving' that there wasn't a last minute change to the route by posting a 11/18 Dallas newspaper article that showed the route 'Main to Houston to Elm', but Russell describes an 11/22 article from the Dallas Morning News that has the route not leaving Main, though even a transfer from Main to Elm just 4 days before the event could be fairly called 'last minute', in a known hostile area like Dallas. Concerning the route, there is a lot of smoke blown by 'official story' advocates and others, trying to say the dangerous route was the only one possible, or trying to falsely pin the blame for the route on Ken O'Donnell or Bill Moyers. There is something about the people involved in the route planning and the timeline of the route planning that is causing the coup plotters to blow smoke, much the same way as the several different stories like Rather's about where, when and from what direction the President was shot. The Sol/Sam Bloom Agency, Protective Research Section, Sorrells and Lawson from the Secret Service, Crichton and local Dallas authorities all had a hand in shaping the route, from September up through Nov. 22. It shouldn't be such a difficult task to get a simple straightforward narrative that describes how a bad decision with such disastrous results came about, but the fact that the story is so jumbled is further proof that the assassination wasn't the work of a 'lone nut'.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 15, 2013, 09:39 PM

21. Great memory, yours, Mc Mike!

Here's a working link for "16 Questions" from "Minority of One," Sept. 6, 1964:


Online resource on Russell' POV:


Regarding the motorcade route: I never could find a source for the decision to make the hairpin turn in front of the TSBD. I do know the tactic was used in similar ambushes in Europe leading to World War I and to kill a Nazi oficial.


Sorry to be so obtuse. I am away from my files and will follow up Monday.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #21)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 07:19 PM

24. Thanks for the Lord Russell link.

I bookmarked this for later, but re-read the first Lord Russell link. That's the one I was thinking of.

He demolished the official story 10 months after the assassination, clearly and concisely. A million more unravelled threads emerged afterwards, but there is no WC advocate who could try to approach debunking this, and come off as reasonable. What are they going to say, 'Lord Russell is just in it for the money', or 'He's seeking to get famous by rashly speculating about this tragedy'?

The Commerce St. route to the freeway, I remember without re-seeing the link. There was some lame justification about it being in an industrial area, and rejected, but it was obvious even without Google maps that that crazy double turn couldn't be the only way to get to Ft. Worth from Dallas, for day to day travel.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #24)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 10:21 PM

25. Bertrand Russell got inspired by Mark Lane...

Going from memory: Russell read stuff Lane wrote and invited him to be his guest in the UK. While there, at Russell's home, people like Paul McCartney would come over to learn what wasn't being printed in the UK newspapers.

Russell later started "Who Killed Kennedy? Committee" in the UK. Lane started similar organization in the US, the Citizen's Committee of Inquiry.

Here's an article that served to wake up a lot of people, including the members of the Warren Commission discussed in executive session. IMFO, it's something worth bookmarking or downloading, going by the little that sees the light of day 50 years on:

Seeds of Doubt: Some Questions About the Assassination

by Jack Minnis and Staughton Lynd
The New Republic
21 December 1963, pp. 14-20


Regarding the Motorcade Route:

Jim Garrison said it was Mayor Earl Cabbel who changed the motorcade route...

Here's what passed for "security" on Nov. 22, 1963, not that every person on that bus could pose a threat.

At Duquesne, Mr. Robert Groden showed a still from the following video. I asked him about its provenance and he said the Dallas ABC affiliate had aired it. Why no one with any power in the nation's news media paid much attention shows how little reporting has been done on the assassination of President Kennedy. From DU:

A Dallas tee vee station recorded JFK leaving Love Field on Nov. 22, 1963...


...it was never shown on national broadcast, for some reason. In the tape, Secret Service Agent Donald Lawton holds up his arms thrice in the classic "What the heck?" gesture. The video indicates SS agent Emory P. Roberts stood up in his car to order Lawton* off the presidential limousine's back bumper, leaving the president unprotected from behind. President Kennedy was murdered a few minutes later.

Video: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/171830/secret_service_jfk /

From Vince Palamara:

An important discovery was made by this correspondent during review of video of the Dallas trip shot by the ABC television affiliate in that city. During the start of the fatal motorcade at Love Field, Secret Service agent Don Lawton begins to jog alongside the presidential limousine. He is immediately called back by his shift leader and commander of the follow-up car detail, Emory P. Roberts.

Lawton's dismay and confusion is made manifest by his unambiguous body language: He throws up his arms several times before, during and after the follow-up car passes him. He was not being allowed to do his job -- and it was not JFK who was ordering the stand-down.

Despite the discovery by this correspondent of three reports to the contrary (two by Roberts) written on November 22, 1963, this newly discovered photographic evidence confirms that frustrated and vocal-in-his-objections Rybka did not enter the follow-up car and was left behind at the airport.

Afterward, in William Manchester's book, Death of a President, we see the "official story" of what happened:

"Kennedy grew weary of seeing bodyguards roosting behind him every time he turned around, and in Tampa on November 18 (1963), just four days before his death, he dryly asked Agent Floyd Boring to 'keep those Ivy League charlatans off the back of the car.' Boring wasn't offended. There had been no animosity in the remark." (1988 Harper & Row/Perennial Library edition, pp. 37-38)



Agents Go On Record

* Previously, the agent in the photo was incorrectly identified as Henry J. Rybka. According to records, he also was ordered to stay off the car and remain at Love Field. Much "chatter" arose over the misidentification.

Thank you for reading and sharing your insight, Mc Mike. I very much appreciate it.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #25)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 08:27 PM

26. Your post # 460, last Jan 22 (in your o.p. of Jan 15), had info on an alternate route.

Last edited Sat Dec 21, 2013, 02:43 AM - Edit history (1)


I mistakenly thought the road was 'Commerce' or 'Commercial', it was 'Industrial'. Deputy Chief Lumpkin (who was Army Intel Reserve, and in the motorcade's pilot car), said in your link that Industrial was not a good route, because it was run down and winos hung around there.

Lumpkin's name came up twice in Russ Baker's Family of Secrets , once in connection with the motorcade and its route (On the re-routing, Baker said on p. 110 that "Officially, the decision to reroute the motorcade from Main Street to Elm, in front of the Book Depository Building, was made only a week before the event--by two Secret Service agents", but Baker didn't name the official source or the agents who changed the route). Lumpkin is first mentioned on p. 115: "on the day of the assassination, Deputy Police Chief George L. Lumpkin was driving the pilot car of Kennedy's motorcade...Lumpkin was a friend of Jack Crichton, Poppy bush's GOP colleague" (Crichton was running for statewide office alongside Poppy bush, Crichton for Gov, Poppy for Senate)..."Like Crichton, moreover, {Lumpkin} was a member of an Army Intelligence Reserve unit. (Lumpkin would later tell the HSCA that he had been consulted by the Secret Service on motorcade security, and his input had eliminated an alternate route.)" Baker didn't mention that the route was via Industrial, unlike your HSCA link. "In the car with Lumpkin was another Army officer, Lt. Col. George Whitmeyer, commander of all Army Reserve units in East Texas, who happened to be Jack Crichton's boss in the Reserve. Although Whitmeyer was not on the police list of those approved to ride in the pilot car, he had insisted that he be in the vehicle and remained there until the shooting. The only recorded stop made by the pilot car was directly in front of the Depository building. Lumpkin stopped briefly there and spoke to a policeman handling traffic at the corner of Houston and Elm."

A bonus mention of Army Reserve unit involvement comes from Russ on page 188. He pointed out that the Bottlers' convention, which was scheduled at the same time as Kennedy's visit to Dallas, held a rodeo to entertain 200 orphans, and the Army Reserves volunteered to provide trucks and drivers to transport the kids to and from the arena at Fair Park (close to the site of the Crichton-led Dallas Civil Defense group's underground emergency bunker and communications facility. Crichton, like Ferrie and Oswald, was big on Civil Defense.) Baker pointed out that the bottlers' convention brought Nixon to Dallas, brought 8,000 strangers to Dallas, sent army vehicles into action on city streets the night before the assassination, and by taking the biggest Dallas venue, helped determine Kennedy's venue and the motorcade route.

The other mention of Lumpkin in Baker's book is on page 119. Within hours of Kennedy's death and Oswald's arrest, a right wing repug party activist and precinct chairman, white Russian emigre Ilya Mamantov, stepped in and functioned as an interpreter between Marina Oswald and investigators, embellishing her comments to establish in no uncertain terms that 'leftist' Lee Oswald was the gunman-the lone gunman-who killed the President. "It is interesting of course that the Dallas police would let an outsider--in particular, a right-wing Russian emigre--handle the delicate interpreting task. Asked by the Warren Commission how this happened, Mamantov said that he had received a phone call from Deputy Police Chief George Lumpkin. After a moment's thought, Mamantov then remembered that just preceding Lumpkin's call he had heard from Jack Crichton. It was Crichton who had put the Dallas Police Dept. together with Mamantov and ensured his place at Marina Oswald's side at this crucial moment. Despite this revelation, Crichton almost completely escaped scrutiny. The Warren Commission never interviewed him."

Harrison Livingstone's The Radical Right and the Murder of John F. Kennedy discussed motorcade planning while talking about a problem with the postmark for the money order Oswald allegedly sent to obtain the murder weapon. It was for 10:30 a.m. on 3/12/63, but during this time Oswald was working for Jaggers-Chiles at some distance from the post office, he was punched in before the post office opened, and his time sheet accounted for each of the jobs he did that morning. "... the job he was working on the longest that morning was for his employer's client, Sam Bloom, the man who later worked closely with the Secret Service to set up the motorcade and Kennedy's visit to Dallas eight month's later. Sam Bloom was an 'associate' of Jack Ruby who was reputed to be Oswald's friend." (p. 209, Livingstone, source cited Warren Commission vol. 22, p. 516.) Mr. Livingstone's book is poorly indexed, and jumps around topically quite a bit, and he says 'Sam Bloom' instead of Mae Brussell's 'Sol Bloom'. Maybe 'Sam' is an Americanized version of 'Sol'; I've never seen them both written together in any source discussing the P.R. agency who was handling the publicity and political side of the motorcade planning, as opposed to the security side.

James Hepburn's Farewell America said on p. 352 that Secret Service advance man Winston Lawson and Dallas S.S. head Sorrels drove the motorcade route with Chief Curry on Monday, Nov. 18. "After they had driven through the center of the city and reached Dealey Plaza, Curry pointed down Main Street past the railroad overpass and said, 'and afterwards there's only the freeway.' But instead of turning right into Houston Street in the direction of Elm Street, as the motorcade did on November 22, Curry turned left in front of the Old Court-house, and neither Lawson nor Sorrels followed the parade route past that point...This type of double turn is contrary to Secret Service regulations, which specifiy that when a Presidential motorcade has to slow down to make a turn, 'the entire intersection must be examined in advance, searched and inspected from top to bottom'. Curry, however, brought the reconnaissance to an end at the very point where it became unacceptable (as well as unusual) from the point of view of security."

When Curry pointed down Main and said, "and afterwards there's only the freeway", that might have been the route Senator Yarborough remembered taking in previous motorcades, Curry's implied route seems to match the 'Main St. to Stemmons Freeway' route description. Why Sorrels, who was the head of Dallas S.S., would need a guide or be unfamiliar with Dealey Plaza and the Freeway ramps, is beyond my ability to explain reasonably. But given his frenetic activity post-assassination to deal exclusively with Zapruder's footage, maybe some 'Occam's Razor' advocate could offer the simplest explanation of Sorrels' activities, abilities, and motivations. To me, it seems like Hepburn's source for the 'dry run' events and conversation was either Lawson or a written report from Lawson.

Thanks for the link to the N. R. article, and the Agents Go On Record link, Octa. There had to have been a lot of good Secret Service agents on the job, or Kennedy wouldn't have lived as long as he did. But none of those agents were in command on 11/22, instead Pat Kirkwood's drinking buddies were in charge. The New Republic article from Dec. of '63 is excellent, it does a good job of compiling the constantly altering details of the emerging 'official story'. I like those early sources, watching the authorities trying to explain things that are known and undeniable, then their explanation trips them up, then they have to re-explain. I really like lines about the '30 Cal Enfield/7.65 mm Mauser/.25 cal Army or Japanese rifle they found on the 2nd, 5th, and 6th floor and in the stairwells, which changed into the 6.5 mm Mannlicher-Carcano that Italian rifle-makers 'customarily' leave their name off of, to prevent their products from being immediately identifiable. Even better that Oswald was across town at work when he purchased the money order at the post office in another part of town to pay for this remarkable weapon. I'm pretty sure he would have faced some kind of wire fraud charges for a transaction like that, had he lived.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 02:49 AM

27. I think Lenny Bruce was right about what happened with Jackie there. Nt.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:32 PM

15. 5:30 pm news time-kick n/t


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Response to bobthedrummer (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 12, 2013, 06:21 PM

16. ''...government coming out of manhole covers...''

It's almost poem-like.

"And I find it almost obscene to continue these fantasies of grassy knolls and government coming out of manhole covers, of double Oswalds sent back from the Soviet Union. Some of these defamatory so-called conspiracy theories have even said the Secret Service shot the President that day. It’s an outrage. It’s a defamatory outrage. Every one of those men would sacrifice his life to save the President or Jackie. Of course they would do that." -- James L. Swanson

Nov. 22, 1963

Have things changed in 50 years?

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2013, 11:51 AM

18. Yawn...

(BTW, this picture was taken here in Sheboygan, WI)

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Response to Archae (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 14, 2013, 01:10 PM

19. You compare discussing the assassination of President Kennedy to beating a dead horse?

Out of 38,000 or something posts I've made over the past 12 years, just a few dozen are OPs on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. If they bother you so much, put me on "Ignore."

For those interested, here are the OPs -- excluding the current one -- I have started on the sad anniversary and on the Duquesne Conference over the last few weeks:

Octafish to attend JFK assassination conference. Do you think JFK still matters?

JFK Conference: Amazing Day of Information and Connecting with Good People

After JFK Conference, when I got home, I felt like RFK.

JFK Conference: Bill Kelly introduced new evidence - adding Air Force One tape recordings

JFK Conference: Rex Bradford detailed the historic importance of the Church Committee

JFK Conference: Lisa Pease Discussed the Real Harm of Corrupt Soft Power

JFK Conference: James DiEugenio made clear how Foreign Policy changed after November 22, 1963

JFK Conference: Mark Lane Addressed the Secret Government’s Role in the Assassination

JFK Conference: David Talbot named Allen Dulles as 'the Chairman of the Board of the Assassination'

JFK Conference: Dan Hardway Detailed how CIA Obstructed HSCA Investigation

Noah's Ark - Nov. 22, 1963

Seven Days in May -- tonight on TCM

Machine Gun Mouth

You disgust me, Archae. Thankfully they are of interest to many DUers, Democrats and those who want to see Justice for JFK. I post on DU because I don't want the BFEE warmongers of the "Money trumps peace" crowd to continue writing the nation's history, as they've tried to do over the past 50 years.

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