Just remember ~ The pen is mightier ...

[In_The_Wind]

[flvegan]

1. ...than the fork.

How many deaths based on what people feed themselves in the same amount of time?

[In_The_Wind]

2. All we can do is try.

One cause ar a time.

[flvegan]

7. Try what?

It seems the issue is people being dead.

600,000 from heart disease? Guns aren't even on the map here. Jesus. Yet another Inconvenient Truth here. Oh, well I guess the pretty graphic isn't as fun/nice/self-gratifying.

[In_The_Wind]

8. If people eat themselves to death that is their choice.

However, I doubt that one of those 600,000 is going to willingly pick death by a gun.

[eqfan592]

9. Of course you ignore the reality that guns CAN in fact be used for self defense.

Crappy foods that kill you, on the other hand, do not have a similar argument to be made in their favor.

[flvegan]

16. Right, yeah, so fuck them.

Because guns. Got it.

[rustydog]

46. When was the lst time heart disease went on a shooting spree killing dozens?

If you're going to make an argument, make it a logical one.
My mother died from heart disease 40 years ago...she didn't take 15 others along with her. her heart killed her and her alone.
How many does a gun kill?
Get real, please.

[Squinch]

42. You never quit with that one, do you? So silly!

[Agschmid]

3. Kick...

We need to do something to stop the violence and IMHO that means some guns need to go.

No other way around it.

[Duckhunter935]

5. go for it

no one is stopping you from trying

[Agschmid]

6. I live in a state where the laws are already quite restrictive.

I've been at it. I'll keep it up thanks for the encouragement and I'm glad you agree!

[eqfan592]

11. You go and do that.

Meanwhile, I'll continue my efforts in areas far more likely to have a long term impact, and not just on violent crime, such as mental healthcare, poverty, education, unemployment, etc.

[Agschmid]

13. So your assumption is I do nothing about that?

Assumption fail... Just FYI.

[eqfan592]

14. Never said any such thing.

Hell, never even assumed it. But you're spending time on the implement, time that could and would be better served elsewhere. So no fail at all.

[Agschmid]

27. The implement is a HUGE part of the equation.

And really lets just call it what it is... A gun... Not "implement" it belittles the violence that GUNS cause.

[eqfan592]

31. Calling it an implement IS calling it what it is.

Nothing belittling about it, it's simply a factual statement.

And your statement is simply not supported by the available evidence. At best you can create a tenuous correlative relationship between the availability of firearms and violent crime, but that's it. There are many other, far more important factors at play when it comes to violent crime.

That's not to say I don't support regulations on firearms, I'm simply saying that I think making them our primary focus is a huge mistake that is, in fact, doing damage and costing lives by serving as a distraction from the true, root causes.

[Agschmid]

34. I agree with some of what you are saying...

Violent crime is an issue... We need to overcome it.

[eqfan592]

40. Thanks.

And just to be clear, I'm not somebody who thinks all gun control laws are bad and must be tossed out, and am in fact in favor of several new ones (such as universal background checks even for private sales, better integration of mental health records into the system, etc.). I just feel that the political capital the party has expended on some of the gun control efforts it has pushed, like the AWB, would have been better spent bringing attention to how things like poverty, poor access to mental healthcare, poor education, etc, can lead to an environment that fosters violent crime, and perhaps encourage greater action in these areas than we might have seen otherwise.

I believe the long term impacts of dealing effectively with those issues would be extraordinary, and result in a far greater reduction of violent crime than even things such as background checks.

[Duckhunter935]

4. West Germany?

I guess I am wrong they reunited.

[eqfan592]

10. Wow, nice catch. Can't believe I missed that.

Especially since I actually lived in Germany back when there still WAS a West and East Germany.

[Jamaal510]

30. I wonder if by "West" Germany,

the graphic meant that all the handgun deaths occurred on that side of the country and none elsewhere.

[bobclark86]

36. No, it's from the 1980s.

[ManiacJoe]

12. How old is that poster?

"Handgun Control, Inc." That org has not used that title in ages.

[In_The_Wind]

17. I'm really not sure.

It's dated September 2013 on the site where the poster came from.

http://guncontrolnowusa.wordpress.com/2013/09/page/2/

[eqfan592]

19. Given that it references a nation that hasn't existed in over 20 years, I'd say it's a bit older. nt

[In_The_Wind]

21. I do understand why you're saying that.

Sorry if the poster is outdated but the underling message is the same.

[petronius]

29. Googling the image, it seems that HCI/Brady started making annual (?) versions of

the poster in the late 1980s at least (the newest I saw that did seem to be theirs was 2004). Looks like photoshoppers have modified versions of it over the years, with more or less geographical literacy, and some temporal vagueness.

The one in the OP does seem to say "based on..." in tiny print below the numbers, but I can't read it...

[geckosfeet]

15. Since we are engaged in posting propaganda,

Dan Gross, head of the Brady Campaign used the number of daily gun murders as proof that "gun violence rates are not" going down. But the rate of gun murder is at its lowest point since at least 1981: 3.6 per 100,000 people in 2010. The high point was 7 in 1993. However, non-fatal gun injuries from assaults increased last year for the third straight year, and that rate is the highest since 2008.

Federal data also show violent crimes committed with guns — including murders, aggravated assaults and robberies — have declined for three straight years.

Rep. Donna Edwards said that "since Columbine, there have been 181 of these school shootings." That’s an inflated figure. She used a list of "major school shootings" supplied by the Brady Campaign that included incidents that were neither shootings nor at schools. By our count, the list shows 130 school shootings since Columbine that resulted in at least one student or school official being killed or injured — still unacceptably high, but about a quarter fewer than claimed.

Gun Rhetoric vs Gun Facts

Interesting maps and sortable data.
Gun homicides and gun ownership listed by country

No agenda.

Just propaganda.

[eqfan592]

18. Hell, looking at those numbers, there doesn't even appear to be a correlation between...

...number of firearms and the percentage of firearm related homicides in a nation, much less evidence of a causal link. Interesting stuff to say the least.

[geckosfeet]

32. Yes. But it was written. So it's mighty.

Mighty useless.

Unfortunately a lot of the anti-gun rhetoric around here has become derisive name calling and simple insults. The hate is right in your face. However, there seems to be no effort to discuss or sort out the social and economic sources of violence and crime.

[aikoaiko]

20. Nice old poster from a now defunct group.

eta: Handgun Control, Inc actually morphed in the brady campaign and more or less dropped the anti-handgun thing.

[In_The_Wind]

22. Whoops. Does it make the message any less important?

Really?

[aikoaiko]

23. Yes, its a failed message dropped by the professional anti-gunners.

[In_The_Wind]

25. Then ... maybe I shouldn't have posted it.

[aikoaiko]

26. Nah, its got a very cool Colt Python in the image.

[In_The_Wind]

28. Hahaha

Obviously, I rarely post a thread in GD.
I was just so happy that Skinner is allowing discussions about guns in GD again that I thought I'd try one.

[eqfan592]

33. He is? He's not updated the exemptions thread to say so....nt

[In_The_Wind]

35. This is his post:

Group Hosts (Group) » On CNN today everyone see...

Sat Dec 14, 2013, 06:35 PM
Skinner (58,689 posts)

On CNN today everyone seems to be talking about guns.
We should be able to talk about guns on DU, also.

[eqfan592]

39. Ah, fair enough then. :)

[aikoaiko]

37. You're alright be me.

[In_The_Wind]

38. Thanks

[eqfan592]

24. The message itself was of questionable validity to begin with.

Our nation does struggle with violent crime, but the cause behind that is far more complicated than what is implied in the poster. Not to mention the comparison made is itself useless if attempting to establish even a correlative link, much less a causal one.

[sheshe2]

51. No it does not the message any less important.

Thanks for the thread, ITW.

[In_The_Wind]

52. Thank you, sheshe2

Clearly ... more needs to be done to protect innocent individuals from suffering.

We don't go into malls these days. There is no where that really feels safe.

[sheshe2]

53. It should not be such a hard thing to change, sadly it is.

[seattledo]

41. penis what?

[EOTE]

50. The Penis Mightier.

I think I saw it on an infomercial or something. It's like a fancy, new-fangled penis pump.

[TlalocW]

54. Sean Connery voice...

Dresh it up however you want, Trebek, but doesh it work? Will it really mighty my penish, man?

TlalocW

[In_The_Wind]

57. ...

Another good reason to avoid watching infomercials.

[Orrex]

43. The pen is especially mighty if you're a wheelchair-bound double amputee

[In_The_Wind]

45. I agree!

[etherealtruth]

44. thank you

[In_The_Wind]

47. We still need more control over who buys guns.

I've had a permit to carry a concealed weapon from New York State since '87. I think the background check should be done more than once in a lifetime. We all change over time.

[LanternWaste]

48. It's difficult for me to see any result other than this

It's difficult for me to see any result other than this realizing that the U.S. possesses the most heavily armed civilian population on the planet.


However, as I was told this past weekend, that 10,000+ number is but one of the small prices to pay to maintain our status as most heavily armed population on the planet...

[In_The_Wind]

49. We really need more stringent background checks.

Plus, as a responsible gun owner, I see no need for any individual to own an assault rifle.

[Duckhunter935]

55. very few

available and are 10-20 thousand dollars now due to the 86 law. No more new ones available so the old ones have skyrocketed in price. Get a class III permit, pass local and federal background checks and pay the 200 dollar tax stamp. But then after all of that you too can own an assault rifle.

As a gun owner, I would think you would know that.

[In_The_Wind]

56. I know that I can do that. However I don't feel that I require that much firepower.