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gollygee

(22,336 posts)
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 12:20 PM Jan 2014

"We can't talk about racism until no white people are poor."

That's how it sounds to me when people say we should talk about class issues and wealth disparity only and that we should specifically not talk about racism because it takes away from the discussion of wealth disparity.

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"We can't talk about racism until no white people are poor." (Original Post) gollygee Jan 2014 OP
. gollygee Jan 2014 #1
I've never heard that. I haven't seen that sentiment on DU cali Jan 2014 #2
Exhibit A: geek tragedy Jan 2014 #3
close enough cali Jan 2014 #4
Yeah there's also a lot of stuff like this gollygee Jan 2014 #5
and, of course, this: geek tragedy Jan 2014 #6
You might have skipped the intro Capt. Obvious Jan 2014 #18
Lots of posts cited in this thread, but none saying that we "should not talk about racism" (nt) Nye Bevan Jan 2014 #7
Not those precise words gollygee Jan 2014 #10
Just look at who is pushing this latest idiocy. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #8
When people say we shouldn't talk about race, I'd have to know in what context el_bryanto Jan 2014 #9
What is said gollygee Jan 2014 #11
Well -any racism? el_bryanto Jan 2014 #12
They are flip sides of the exact same thing gollygee Jan 2014 #13
The problem is culpability el_bryanto Jan 2014 #14
except that it is not that clear cut hfojvt Jan 2014 #21
The opposite sounds like... Shandris Jan 2014 #15
Most of the examples cited in this thread made points LittleBlue Jan 2014 #16
exactly hfojvt Jan 2014 #20
Almost any time I hear anyone talk about wealth disparity MissMillie Jan 2014 #17
The social notion "race" has no scientific merit: its utility has always been to mystify struggle4progress Jan 2014 #19
 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
8. Just look at who is pushing this latest idiocy.
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 02:23 PM
Jan 2014

Now just look at how many important things that are actually happening today are being talked about here.

It is the same thing, done by the same people over and over and over for years.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
9. When people say we shouldn't talk about race, I'd have to know in what context
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 02:23 PM
Jan 2014

I think that economic issues are very important of course; and there are racial issues that don't seem quite as important in comparison - areas of Political Correctness for example.

What would be an example of an racism issue you would like to discuss but you feel gets overrun by people telling you not to talk about it?

Bryant

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
11. What is said
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 02:50 PM
Jan 2014

is that any discussion of racism at all is divisive and that the 1% loves to see us talk about racism because it keeps us from discussing the only subject that is REALLY important, which is classism and wealth disparity.

Though I think there are people who feel that way who at the same time feel it is very important to talk about the dangers of aromatherapy and acupuncture.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
12. Well -any racism?
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 02:54 PM
Jan 2014

Or white privilege? I noticed that all of the posts you linked to above are related to white privilege. You do recognize that those are distinct but related issues?

Bryant

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
13. They are flip sides of the exact same thing
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 02:55 PM
Jan 2014

If person A has a harder time (racism)
than person B has an easier time (white privilege)

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
14. The problem is culpability
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 03:34 PM
Jan 2014

Racism generally implies culpability; deciding that black people just aren't worth as much as white people. White privilege works differently. It's a set of unconscious reactions and beliefs. "I gave them all a fair chance, but Smith (white) was clearly more polished than Gleason (black), and I just think he'd fit in here better. I'll hire Smith."

Its harder to pinpoint that sort of racism, and it's also harder to get people to feel guilty for it. And then again, once you get people to feel guilty about it what's the next step? Other than being careful not to engage in such attitudes yourself.

Also of course, the economic warfare waged against the poor affects people a great deal more in my opinion.

Bryant

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
21. except that it is not that clear cut
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 04:21 PM
Jan 2014

if person A has an easier time because he's rich (privileged)
than person B has a harder time because he's poor (not privileged)

All you have to do is make person A black and person B white and zip-zop, white privilege isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
15. The opposite sounds like...
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 03:42 PM
Jan 2014

..."generalization is good and provides the best alternatives to helping individual people, so this theory that a segment of the population has elevated to the point of a near-religion can't be questioned, even if the questioning is simply to see if perhaps there isn't a better way to use it."

As I keep saying, if all focus goes onto one or two privileges and not how they interact you will -never- accomplish your goal. EVER. Because movements aren't made of vague numerical representations, they are made of individuals -- individuals who must be connected with.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
16. Most of the examples cited in this thread made points
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 03:43 PM
Jan 2014

about privilege. None sounded to me like the quote you made.

Racism is discussed all the time on DU, it only becomes contentious when the inflammatory word "privilege" is used.

It's not surprising that people who are poor get angry when you start calling them privileged. Don't conflate that with the very positive, sympathetic threads we get going on racism.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
20. exactly
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 04:17 PM
Jan 2014

and yet some people think that talking about "white privilege" is the only, or best way, to talk about racism. Or that to deny "white privilege" is to deny racism.

MissMillie

(38,451 posts)
17. Almost any time I hear anyone talk about wealth disparity
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 03:45 PM
Jan 2014

they link it to race.

I don't see how you can have a discussion of one w/o the other.

struggle4progress

(118,032 posts)
19. The social notion "race" has no scientific merit: its utility has always been to mystify
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 04:08 PM
Jan 2014

the class-structure it imposes

"Race" as a social notion, of course, is real: it has ugly ramifications in the real lives of real people, and for that reason it must be considered when trying to learn the lessons of history. But the point of emphasizing class issues, rather than "race" issues, is that the lower classes ought to be, and need to be, united to fight for common interests and that emphasizing "race" perpetuates imaginary divisions that benefit the status quo.

The proper understanding of race IMO is this:

Racist theories function in a manner similar to the sexist theories that impose "glass ceilings" on women: whether we're discussing chattel slavery, chain-gang labor, or the more recent anti-Hispanic "Juan Crow" system, the theory of "race" has always been used to obscure whose labor can be exploited on grounds of inferiority, criminality, or purported illegal presence in the country, just as anti-feminist theorizing has been effectively used to confine women to lower paying jobs

That is not to say that racist or sexist thinking has disappeared, nor even that any of us -- conditioned as we are by cultural context -- is free of such thinking. And it is not to say that we can ignore the realities and perceptions of racist or sexist experiences of our contemporaries: these matters require constant critical attention. But we will better understand the underlying political tasks we face if we proceed on the basis of a class-analysis



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