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Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:36 PM

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This message was self-deleted by its author (BainsBane) on Sun Jan 12, 2014, 01:53 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:39 PM

1. What in the world is the point of this poll, except to start things up again?

 

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Response to HERVEPA (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:39 PM

2. Well, if we all agree, then there will be no dispute. nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:43 PM

3. Well there's always the argument about who agrees more

Some people might agree a little, while others might agree very passionately. So we can argue about that.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:45 PM

9. maybe even worse

 

it may resemble the most annoying game couples play, anywhere on planet earth:

I love you more.


.

No, I love you more.


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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:48 PM

14. and the way to end that one, is, of course, "and rightly so"

 

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Response to HERVEPA (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:44 PM

4. The fact that

the offensive words were not spelled out suggests that the OP already knows the answer. You take your chances - regardless of context.

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Response to HERVEPA (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:45 PM

7. What is the point about the poll about fat jokes?

The point of this is the same, only it deals with sexism. '

I'm sick to death of people tellilng me that sexsm isn't important. The size of retired DUers Social Security checks doesn't affect my life, but I don't feel compelled to tell them it's not important. If you don't like something, don't read it. I am not interested in efforts to censor discussion of sexism. If I wanted to conform to a view of politics and social behavior framed by white men only, I would go to Free Republic.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 04:22 PM

31. Well said. nt

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Response to HERVEPA (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 04:03 PM

27. That's the point

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:44 PM

5. Where's the "Oh geez, not THIS SHIT AGAIN" response?

Because that's the one I'd pick.

I remember a while back, a woman with serious, life-threatening cancer who was unable to conceive a child, used a harsh word against a woman who killed her twins quite brutally, and the wagons got circled to try to get that woman kicked off this site. Only a few folks bothered to look at the context of her comment, and fought to keep her here. Way too many people looked at the "naughty word" all on its own, without understanding the POV of the speaker. Some people thought the "naughty word" was more important than the human behind it, and her suffering.

I thought that was a low moment here.

That said, wouldn't it be nice if we didn't feel the need to insult ONE ANOTHER at all? Why not save our insults for Republicans?

And why treat women as "special snowflakes?" All of those words can be used to insult men, too--even the last one (go to UK, you'll see). I say if there's to be banning of words beyond Ye Olde Jury/Take Yer Chances, it should be the words that are banned, not at whom they are directed.

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Response to MADem (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:46 PM

10. certainly they should be hidden regardless of to whom they're applied, no? nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 02:59 PM

22. Well, we could make a list, and check it twice, if you'd like. Do you think that would

make DU a better place (we all have had this discussion here on this website before)? I don't. I think any time we try to censor more than network television does, we're making asses (non-gender specific asses, mind you) of ourselves.

I think we do well to simply not insult one another. Beyond that, if someone is going to insult a Republican, I'm going to be contextual in my judgment of their comments.

That said, IMO, this thread IS another "Not this shit again" foray--someone is plainly bored and needs the stimulation of an internet fight about nothing.

DU Drama Threads--Like Seinfeld, Only Without the Comedy.


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Response to MADem (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:55 PM

16. Cool Story, Bro

Last edited Fri Jan 10, 2014, 10:49 PM - Edit history (2)

Your story is cute, only I've been on MIRT and I know for a fact people don't get kicked off for using sexist insults unless they make a habit of doing it repeatedly. Even then it's extremely rare. I have even seen members lay down the gauntlet to protect trolls who used vulgar sexist terms within their first few posts.

"This shit again." I know it's awful of me to think that I'm an equal human being on par with overweight Americans. What would I do without DUers to put me in my place and remind me that being born with a certain chromosomal deformity means I can't expect the same consideration other members of the site, or Republicans like Chris Christie, receive. You sure showed me to keep my mouth shut about things that don't matter, like basic respect for half the human race.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #16)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 02:53 PM

21. Excuse me? This predated your arrival here--at least according to your profile.

It happened not long after DU3 went live.

My story is not "cute"--it was fucking disgusting. The readiness to make the use of the word more important than the anguish of the DUer was one of the low points in the history of this website.

And if you don't believe me, ask Skinner. He reinstated the individual after she was thrown to the dogs, as I recall.

So you know what can do with your "Cool story, bro."

But for some reason I am not surprised that this is your first reaction--you can't bear it when the mirror is held up, is that it? You've got to immediately infer that I am lying with this comment. Seriously, what point would there be in that? Grow up and stop acting as though everyone on this board is a game player, save you, when it's entirely possible that script of yours needs to be flipped.

I'm sure there are others in the AA community here who remember that despicable exchange, because there was an element of racism detectable in the whole mess, too.

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Response to MADem (Reply #21)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 06:56 PM

56. Who PPRed the person?

Was it someone on MIRT or one of the administrators?

No, I don't believe a word is more important than someone's feelings. Nor do I think one unfortunate incident justifies what is commonplace use of vulgar, sexist terms, anymore than it would insults against any other group. If that is not your point, why raise the issue in this thread? Do you believe all bigoted slurs are acceptable or is only the ones directed at women that don't matter?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #56)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 07:38 PM

63. It wasn't MIRT--the person was a DUer who had been here for awhile.

A whole bunch of "people who shall not be named" put the c-word ahead of the DUer's intent--they wanted her dead. They DEMANDED it. They were vicious, nasty and unforgiving. Of course, given that she had cancer, they may have gotten their wish.

The thread may have been in the long-dead META....where THIS thread belongs, IMO. Long dead, and in META, I mean...this pile of mess is nothing more than a mega, meta whine about DU.

I believe that people should use the fucking intelligence they have at their disposal, and not be little lock-step "swear Nazis"--to Godwin this conversation right off the bat. Most people can figure out what the intent of a writer is--it's only here, where a very few people (not many but boy do they take up ALL the fucking air around here) will parse a sentence to death and assign people motives that they do not intend and do not deserve.

I have to say that I think it is very odd that YOU, in your OP, assume that the "s" word and the "w" word can ONLY apply to the female of the species. That's a rather dated worldview--a rather sexist one, dare I say. Why do you hold that view? You really need to rethink this.

I also can't help but notice, with both curiosity and a bit of disgust, your comment about your alleged (because this is the internet, you could be Chris Christie working out some rage for all we know) gender being a defect, either (what you said, precisely, was "being born with a certain chromosomal deformity". I can't imagine anyone saying that kind of thing, even if they were trying to be wry. Rather self-loathing, or maybe something else...? And you're complaining about "bigoted slurs against women?" Calling women "deformed" is a lot worse than the TV censor approved "B" word, I should think.

But, here you are, having built that odd, angry little strawman - so I guess I can imagine it. Don't think much of the remark, though.

Found it curious, weird, strange, and certainly not terribly progressive.

I think you're trying a bit too hard.

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Response to MADem (Reply #63)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 07:47 PM

66. The chromosomal deformity is a reference to a piece in the Onion

A superb piece: http://www.theonion.com/articles/deformed-freak-born-without-penis,34732/

You don't get to tell me what is a worse offense for a women.

If the administrators PPR'd someone, it is their responsibility. People are responsible for what they say, and the administrators for what they do.

Pretending sexist terms aren't gendered is disingenuous. It's the tired old crap that pointing out sexism is actually sexist. It's transparent. Words have precise meanings and etymological origins. That some use them freely only shows the extent to which misogyny is entrenched in American culture, so entrenched that you feel it's some sort of constitutional right of yours to shut down my little poll, while showing no objections to the other two polls on insults posted today.

I must say I can't imagine having the kind of ego that would enable me to tell members of another subaltern group what they can and can't be offended by. I don't tell African American members of this site what is racist, and you don't tell me what is sexist. The idea that you think yourself entitled to do so is astounding.

You refuse to engage directly with the question but your point is clear enough. I am tempted to say I would treat other groups as some treat women around here, but then I couldn't live with myself if I did. If one doesn't adhere to basic notions of human equality and respect for all irrespective of race, creed, gender or sexual orientation. they can't IMO claim to be a decent human being let alone a progressive or liberal. There is nothing progressive about sexism and misogyny. Save the bullshit. Insulting women is not a civil right. It's bigotry, pure and simple.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #66)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 08:22 PM

72. Well, it's not "funny" and it really should be put on the list of banned words and phrases.

Now, I'm gonna pull out the tag because I don't think that, at all.

I DO get to tell you what is a worse offense for a woman; you can disregard what I say, or not, but you are not my censor. And you really need, IMO, to stop acting like you are the Net Nanny and Board Censor for everything " female gender related" on this board, because you're not that--and you also need to just appreciate the fact that you don't come off well at all when you start dramatic threads like this one. And just because you INSIST that the W-word or the S-word or the B-word are "women's words," doesn't mean that's true. If you're going to get outraged about "gender slurs," you'd better get busy on firing up some outrage against the "D" word and the "Pr" word, too--otherwise we'll have to conclude that you have a gender bias. And don't even try telling me "It's not the same" because if we're going to work towards a goal of equality for all, it's not right to insult people because they can deal with it or they haven't been insulted as much up to now. You'd better start walking the walk, or be prepared to be regarded as a hypocrite.

You ask questions of the "When did you stop beating your children?" variety. There's no winning to answer one of your "questions." They're always phrased in the form of an accusation. I'm sick of them, frankly, and I'll bet I'm not alone. So perhaps YOU need to save some of that bullshit, yourself, instead of giving me advice you won't take yourself.

Most DUers--the overwhelming majority, in fact, save the trolls, shit-stirrers, and bullshit artists-- are not sexists, misogynists or women haters, though to listen to you, you'd think the joint was infested with them. You pick apart people's words, point at them, and bellow "J'ACCUSE!!!!!" like you are the arbiter here--well, let me tell you--you aren't. You have an opinion, like everyone else--and we all know what opinions are like.

I hesitate to say this, because I don't really want to throw another log on the fire, but it wouldn't surprise me if people don't hide the threads you alert on because their goal isn't to be mean or unkind to women, but to piss you off. You are rather sanctimonious at times, and this affects how you are regarded.

For example, this thread is just a shit stir. It's META, it's whining about DU, and it isn't appropriate for GD. Of course, it's also a massive train wreck, so it draws gawkers, myself included, to my great shame. Yes, I'm guilty of taking the shitty bait you dangled. I'm already regretting it. I do wonder, though, if in order to read DU every day, I have to continue to trash dozens of threads like this one--it's getting to the point where the board is overloaded with bullshit-poutrage that isn't really an issue for most of us who identify as Democrats and other progressives.

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Response to MADem (Reply #72)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 08:25 PM

73. !

 

#standing%2520ovation%2520gif

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Response to opiate69 (Reply #73)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 08:30 PM

76. Merci, mille fois! nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #72)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 08:49 PM

81. Well, I called one of my shotguns an "OLD whore."

 

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Response to MADem (Reply #72)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 09:06 PM

84. +1000. You just summed up almost every post

 

made by that one. And they aren't the only one from that sub-group who specializes in the "questions" technique, which are just thinly veiled accusations. Its definitely a slimy and noxious way to pollute the Du atmosphere, that is for sure. Running around threads accusing duers of being horrible things if they don't agree with someone seems to be a specialty, but I think you are not the only one who notices and finds it pretty tiresome and like you said, bullcrap.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #84)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 10:23 PM

91. You mean like your poll

That didn't even attempt to create reasonable options but clearly was about denouncing anyone who objected to bigotry as having no sense of humor?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #91)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 10:51 PM

95. Then don't read it. Sheesh. n/t

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Response to quinnox (Reply #84)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 10:45 PM

94. Show me where I accused someone of being "horrible"

Go on. I'm looking. Why is this poll unacceptable and the one about fat jokes okay? Why is yours okay, when it clearly was an attempt to accuse? Do you actually pay attention to what you write?

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Response to quinnox (Reply #84)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 10:56 PM

97. I really dislike it when people are falsely accused--and that's happening a lot in this thread. nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #97)


Response to BainsBane (Reply #170)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 02:45 PM

182. I am not the one making the false accusations--you are.

I'm simply pointing out your behavior--and you are annoyed about it.

If anyone needs to "just stop" it ain't me.

This isn't about a difference of views--this is about insults and name calling, putting words in people's mouths, ascribing attitudes to them that they do not possess.

YOU do that. I point it out. Maybe you should take a hint.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #84)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 09:53 AM

169. "sub-group"? Really?

Certain feminists are now not even a real group but a sub-group? "Slimy" and "noxious"? I see nothing of a sort from the strong feminists with strong views on this board. I see a group of women, such as myself, who aren't afraid to raise our voices and our views. Don't try to marginalize us. It's an old trick and we're tired of it.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #169)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:20 PM

187. I think you might be getting annoyed without call.

The GROUP--and go look at Skinner's "Forums and Groups" list--is GENDER AND ORIENTATION.

The sub-groups under that list are

Feminism and Diversity

Feminists

History of Feminism

LGBT

LGBT Civil Rights and Activism

Men's Group

Sexual Assault Survivors and Support

Women's Rights and Issues

Women's World



That's how I took the comment, anyway. YMMV.

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Response to MADem (Reply #72)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 10:08 PM

87. The irony is thick: Your rights do not extend to telling me what I can be offended by.

Takes a lot of nerve for you to you call my rejection of telling me what I care about censorship. No point reading the rest. Obviously you see your right to decide what I can think about as absolute. And this is part of your effort to tell me I have no right to post this poll. I don't know how many times I have to state the obvious. If you don't like my posts, don't read them. The irony of whining about censorship while telling me I have no right to discuss sexism truly is astounding.

The only reason this poll is shit stirring is that some think they have some sort of right to degrade women. This is no different from the poll on fat insults, which has not been called flame bait. I attempted to create real options that convey a variety of views. Quinnox's poll on the other hand left options that either one thought bigotry was find or had no sense of humor. The real question is why people object to something so basic? Why would they insist on flaming a basic question: Is it wrong to insult women based on gender? The answer should be no different than for race, sexuality, or any other subject position. You choose to object to the fact anyone would dare question sexist and misogynist insults. That is of course your right, but it makes clear exactly what your values are. The part about thinking you have the right to control what I think and feel is too bizarre to comprehend.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #87)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 10:16 PM

89. Yes, they do--this is a discussion board, and disagreement is part of discussion.

No point reading the rest? Yeah, right. I suspect you read it all.

And there you go AGAIN!!! Word twisting, a "BB Speciality!"

Obviously you see your right to decide what I can think about as absolute. And this is part of your effort to tell me I have no right to post this poll.


You can think what you want, and I can challenge your views.

And you have EVERY right to post this poll, and I have every right to question your motives for so doing.

You choose to object to the fact anyone would dare question sexist and misogynist insults.


No, I choose to object to your selective outrage and your accusatory tone.

As I pointed out in that post you say you didn't read.


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Response to MADem (Reply #89)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 10:22 PM

90. I'll make this brief and save you time

Last edited Fri Jan 10, 2014, 11:30 PM - Edit history (1)

Anyone who thinks he has a right to determine what I can think and feel is someone I have no interest in discussion with, period.

I have NEVER once claimed to speak for all women. I speak for one woman, me. You, on the other hand, speak for none. Like everyone else, you speak only for yourself. What is clear is you object to my right to express my own views. However "sanctimonious" you may find me, I have never gone so far as to tell another person what they are allowed to feel. That is of the charts.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #90)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 10:52 PM

96. You're stuck on transmit, aren't you?

I didn't say I had a right to determine what you can think and feel.

I did say I'll express my own opinion because this is a discussion board--and too bad if you don't like that.

You do claim to speak for all women--it's all you seem to do. It's why you are likened to the Peanuts teacher in this very thread at Post 64--you have a didactic tone and it is off-putting in the extreme.

You also routinely come up with bullshit statements that falsely suggest people are trying to control what you think, or stop you from posting, or nonsense like that--this thread is populated with those sorts of "poor me" statements--you cough those up like hairballs, anytime you're challenged.

Anyone who thinks he has a right to determine what I can think and feel is someone I have no interest in discussion with, period.


You must have also seen the posts by certain members outraged that anyone would question their use of such terms, and even one telling me I have no right to be offended by being called a b h or a c...t and that I was the real sexist for referencing an Onion parody.


Obviously you see your right to decide what I can think about as absolute. And this is part of your effort to tell me I have no right to post this poll.


All of those Over The Top, dramatic comments are yours, and none of them are accurate. No one is trying to stop you from doing anything or "order" you to not be offended. What you just can't grasp is that people, like me, are telling you that they are getting tired of your dramatic over-statements and nasty insinuations about decent DUers, here. Your default approach is to falsely accuse people of wrongdoing (sexism, misogyny, name your poison), and infer that they are victimizing you by stifling your voice.

Criticism--and this is some, and it's deserved--is not "stifling." You would benefit if you would only acquaint yourself with that nuance.

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Response to MADem (Reply #96)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 02:13 AM

103. Let's be clear

Last edited Sat Jan 11, 2014, 07:13 AM - Edit history (3)

What you object to is that I speak at all, that I have the audacity to express views not approved of by a few members of this site, furious that I dare discuss issues of gender and violence against women. You have no evidence that I have ever claimed to speak for all women. You are incensed I speak at all, that I question male privilege. You cry censorship while insisting I have no right to post a simple poll, while claiming I am making false allegations about Quinnox's poll. The poutrage here is entirely yours. You could simply ignore the poll, but that's not sufficient. You feel entitled to tell me that I have no right to object to being called a female dog, as
less that human, or be reduced to vulgar names for the female anatomy.

The vast majority of members on this site see this poll as a no brainer. Of course they don't use vulgar, bigoted insults. You have decided that even asking the question is an outrage. That is entirely your problem. First you started with some anecdote from before I was a member of this site. Now you claim everything is a result of my personality and outrageous views. I did not accuse you of misogyny. YOU decided it was crucial to tell me that posting this poll was an outrage, yet not the poll about fat jokes, just the one about sexism. People can come to their own conclusions why that is. If sexism were not an issue, there would nothing remarkable in this poll. You, on the other hand, proclaim that my objecting to discursive dehumanization of women is somehow illiberal. Whatever notion of progressive politics you hold that justifies your position in this thread is antithetical to everything I value.

Here is the bottom line. You are of course free to be whatever you want be, but leave me out of it. I don't control anyones behavior, but I do get to decide who I relate to. My life, my thoughts and my feelings have nothing whatsoever to do with you. We don't know each other and never will. I could care less what you and your buddies think about me, particularly when you reveal am astounding lack of awareness by accusing me of precisely what you have done.

I am giving you a belated Christmas gift. I no longer exist to you. Put me on ignore, imagine I am dead, or whatever
makes you happy. As long as you never respond to me again, you can free yourself from the bane of my existence. Problem solved. And I in turn spare myself the endless portage of someone infuriated that I dare speak my mind.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #103)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 04:22 AM

118. There you go again, making up attitudes and ascribing them to others--your stock in trade.

Let's take your diatribe in small bites, now, shall we?

What you object to is that I speak at all, that I have the audacity to express views not approves of by a few members of this site furious that I dare discuss issues of gender and violence against women...


No, this just is a bit fat heaping helping of NOT true. You can "speak" all you want--you're sure doing plenty of it on this thread. It's obvious no one has taken away your keyboard.

You have no evidence that I have ever claimed to speak for all women.


I notice you used the "no evidence" phrasing....do these words ring a bell with you at all?

Being opposed to sexist slurs is not treating women as "special snowflakes". That is offensive to every woman on du. Insult women with "special snowflakes" to dismiss the progressive position of being against sexist slurs.


And even if they aren't familiar to you--though I'm guessing they are, anyone reading your posts can't help but notice that your modus operandus is to tell people what women like or don't like, what they want or don't want, what's acceptable and what is not, as though you're the arbiter of these things--and you're not. Post 64 is a mirror being held up--look into it.

You are incensed I speak at all, that I question make privilege. You cry censorship while insisting I have no right to post a simple poll, while claiming I am making false allegations about Quinnox's poll.


Show me where I said I was incensed that you speak at all--you can't because I never said that. I didn't "cry censorship"--you don't, as I noted, have the ability to censor me or anyone else, though you certainly do try with your dire insinuations and word-twisting attempts-- nor did I "insist (you) have no right to post a simple poll"--another completely fabricated invention on your part. And as for "Quinnox's poll," I haven't said a single word about "Quinnox" or "his poll."

You could simply ignore the poll, but that's not sufficient. You feel entitled to tell me that I have no right to object to being called a female dog, as less that human, or be reduced to vulgar names for the female anatomy.


Yes, I could simply ignore the poll, and as I said elsewhere on this thread, I do regret joining this train wreck that you created. But I'm not going to walk away while you make stuff up about me--that's just not on. I don't "feel entitled to tell you that (you) have no right to object to being called a female dog, as less that human, or be reduced to vulgar names for the female anatomy" and I object vociferously to you trying to put that untruth you created out of whole cloth on me--that's an example, right there, of you inventing a statement and shoving it in someone else's mouth. It's deceitful, it's wrong, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Thanks for doing it, though--because by your words we shall know you, and you've really stepped over the line with this latest OTT post.

You have decided that e en asking the question is an outrage. That is entirely your problem


No, as I have said, you making shit up about people, making accusatory statements, and putting words in people's mouths is entirely YOUR problem. You're just really, really annoyed that I'm pointing it out.

Here is the bottom line. You be whatever you want be, but leave me out of it. I dont control anyones behavior but I do get to decide who I relate to. My life, my thoughts and my feelings have nothing
whatsoever to do with you and I thank all the stars above that they never will. We font know each other and never will. I could care less what you and your
buddies think about me, particularly when you reveal am astounding lack of awareness by acussing me of precisely what you have done.



Sorry--that's not "the bottom line" just because you say so. I'll "leave you out of it" when you stop misrepresenting and bullying people with false insinuations and characterizations. You sure as hell don't control anyone's behavior, but you certainly do try to goad and bait people, and you misstate their words and their intent. And if you "could care less" what I think of you, why do you continue to respond to me with more misrepresentations of what I've had to say, here? You do know that most DUers are smart people--they can READ. They can COMPREHEND a sentence. And they can see that what you are claiming I have said is NOT what I've said.


I am giving you a belated Christmas
gift. I no longer exist to you. Put me on ignore, imagine I am dead, or whatever makes you happy. As long as you never respond to me again, you can free yourself from the bane of my existence. Problem solved.


Thought you said you didn't try to control people? Here you are, demanding that I put you on ignore and imagine that you are dead. I don't do IGNORE and I'd have to regard you in a sick and visceral way to go to the weirdly fucked up place (that you had no problem creating in your own head, and describing in your post) of "imagining" you or anyone dead. That's just some messed up shit, there! This is a MESSAGE board. Why are you talking about dead people?

And you're proud of that--and you call it a "Christmas present." Hmmmm.

You want to make me "happy?" Really? Stop making stuff up about decent DUers. Stop insisting that good, progressive people are women haters and misogynists. Stop twisting people's words. Stop inventing fake fights that mean nothing. Stop making DU suck.

I know I won't get my wishes, here, because you thrive on this kind of sick, disruptive drama, where you're the saintly truth teller, and everyone else is a misogynist who likes to spout vulgarities, and only you are the Way and the Light.

Don't think for a second that "not replying" is an acceptable resolution to the divisiveness and upset you attempt to create with posts like this latest one of yours. When I see someone crapping on people unfairly, I'm going to have something to say about it. Too bad if you don't like it.

So here's a suggestion--not a demand, a suggestion-- for you--take your own damned shitty advice. Put ME on ignore, wish ME dead, and never respond to ME again--give it a try! Maybe it'll make your life "happier."

I rather doubt it, but one never knows...

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Response to MADem (Reply #118)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 07:19 AM

125. You may not know the half of it.

 

"There you go again, making up attitudes and ascribing them to others--your stock in trade."

You may not know the half of it.

That poster and I have been in some mighty contentious arguments. That poster was habitual, in doing exactly what you describe, attributing positions, words, sentiments, attitudes, and the like, to others.

Like clockwork.

I started keeping track, by adding the made up word "ipnabla" to any reply made by me to such posts. Doing a DU search for that word, may shine light on many other examples of such behavior.

Be warned, the topic was guns.

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Response to beevul (Reply #125)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 01:59 PM

140. I avoid the gun discussions precisely because they are too contentious!

I got in a discussion there once a while ago, in the old DU, and boy did my head hurt! That's a bit too rich for my blood, as they say.

We had another person back in that old DU who had the same approach, a lawyer from Canada, she styled herself (though she couldn't have practiced much law because she was on the internet all the time), who had a blazing affection for the very same two forums; can't remember her name but she got PPR'd after doing much the same thing for a long, long time--fighting with everyone, ascribing false views to people, being incredibly rude...she'd try to wear people down with a continuous assault of invective. Of course, now that we have the jury system, that full on kind of approach doesn't work anymore--good thing!

Though we all may not own a gun, we each do have a gender (a rare few more than one) and if we're to live together on this big blue marble and keep humanity going, it's not helpful to start phony "wars" over things that we all agree on--and the overwhelming majority of DUers are good, decent people who respect women, AND men, AND children, AND the elderly, and aren't hateful misogynists/misandrists who view every waking moment as a battle against an unseen "opponent" of the opposite gender. This attitude is just absurd, and when complete strangers are made "the enemy" and accused in that fashion it just really makes DU suck.

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Response to MADem (Reply #140)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 02:12 PM

141. Tis iverglas you refer to.

 

"We had another person back in that old DU who had the same approach, a lawyer from Canada, she styled herself (though she couldn't have practiced much law because she was on the internet all the time), who had a blazing affection for the very same two forums; can't remember her name but she got PPR'd after doing much the same thing for a long, long time--fighting with everyone, ascribing false views to people, being incredibly rude...she'd try to wear people down with a continuous assault of invective. Of course, now that we have the jury system, that full on kind of approach doesn't work anymore--good thing!"

Tis iverglas you refer to, and she was given the granite pizza, for (quoting Skinner) "making DU suck". One would think, when they start getting mentioned alongside formers posters such as iverglas, that they would take the hint and dial it way down.

One would think...

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Response to beevul (Reply #141)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 02:14 PM

142. Yes, that's the one, precisely!

It's not a model worth following, that's for sure!

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Response to MADem (Reply #142)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 02:45 PM

181. Iverglas! Yes! Exactly the same style

The most epic tombstone message in DU history:

More hidden posts than any other DU member, a position she held consistently for weeks (also a position she held regularly on DU2). Numerous attempts to drive a wedge between LGBT DUers and Feminists. Did not seem to like LGBT DUers very much; defended transphobia on a number of occasions. Tried to bypass being blocked out of threads by repeatedly editing her remaining posts. Tried to bully potential Jurors into leaving her disruptive posts alone by repeatedly posting rude callouts of Jurors in the Help & Meta-discussion forum. Was a constant fixture in flame wars in that forum. Repeated attempts to badger the Admins into banning people via the alert function. Constantly surly and rude, iverglas had become pretty much the epitome of "making DU suck." She received an enormous amount of feedback from other DUers indicating that she was disruptive and divisive and was given ample opportunity to modify her approach, but instead chose to believe that the problem was everybody else on DU.


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Response to hootinholler (Reply #181)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 02:53 PM

183. I was one of the people who gave her some of that "feedback." I tried to be constructive, too.

She was probably the person who was MOST responsible for DU losing the Help and Meta forum. She used it as her personal "screed board." I was a host of that forum back then--of course, it was hard as hell to host that thing, because "META" was the name of the game, there wasn't much that was off limits!

Gotta wonder if Shirley Bassey has a point!

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Response to MADem (Reply #183)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:24 PM

188. What a great performance

What a tremendously powerful voice.

Oh, and I think the subject is spot on.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #188)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:27 PM

189. She's one of my all-time favorites...what pipes! nt

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Response to beevul (Reply #141)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 03:35 PM

143. "making DU suck"

"a person or thing that ruins or spoils"

Hmmm

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Response to MADem (Reply #140)


Response to BainsBane (Reply #171)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 02:39 PM

179. Stop trying to play the victim. I pointed out your horrible behavior, and you don't like it.

Perhaps, instead of claiming that I am "attacking" you for spelling out exactly what sort of disruptive, divisive methods you use, you might consider modifying your uncivil behavior, stop wrongly characterizing people, and start helping to make DU a place for mature and insightful discussion, instead of accusing everyone you don't agree with of misconduct in their sexual politics.

I'm not going to get into a "gun fight" with you, either. You really DO have trouble with the written word, I guess--did you not read the sentence where I said I don't "do" the gungeon, because it is too contentious? And the "phony war" I was talking about was all about the shit you pull when you accuse people of being sexists, not your "other dramas" in the gungeon. Here--read it AGAIN, since you obviously didn't catch the sentiment the first time:

....it's not helpful to start phony "wars" over things that we all agree on--and the overwhelming majority of DUers are good, decent people who respect women, AND men, AND children, AND the elderly, and aren't hateful misogynists/misandrists who view every waking moment as a battle against an unseen "opponent" of the opposite gender.


This is a perfect example of how you process shit, though, and thank you for illustrating it for all to see--you saw the word "war," you attached it to your enthusiasm for gun arguments, and you started spewing--in a fact-free, context-free fashion. As you DO. All the time.

And repeating everything I said to you back at me is NOT a winner, you know. People can read, and they see from where you've lifted your phraseology.

The "ageism" slur ("I get that you are part of an older generation...." is a non-starter, too. If I were an asshole, I'd alert on you (you know how that's done, I'm sure)--maybe someone else will, and it would serve you right. Have a look at this list--the overwhelming majority of the feminists listed on that page are GEEZERS, in my age range. Ooops. Another insult toss that missed the mark, yet another nasty, accusatory attempt at being too clever by half--how surprising, not.

You should quit while you're well behind. You've run out of gas--park the damn car.

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Response to beevul (Reply #125)


Response to MADem (Reply #118)


Response to BainsBane (Reply #159)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 02:42 PM

180. "I have every right to analyze your behavior...."

Yeah--and I have every right to analyze yours, too, and point out how you routinely accuse people of sexism and worse--and you don't like it.

I haven't "denounced (your) behavior as shameful" I have denounced it as disruptive.

And you are seriously claiming you didn't hit the ALERT button (as you so often do when you don't get your way) and try to shut me out of this thread?

OK, sure, whatever you say.

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Response to MADem (Reply #180)


Response to BainsBane (Reply #190)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:45 PM

192. If I am so boring, why are you hyper-posting and replying several times to a single post of mine?

You need to make up your mind! The "and one more thing" multi-replies to single posts is bad nettiquette, you know.

If it's "not worth (your) time" why don't you just park the car, as I said? No one is forcing you to converse with me.

I've done nothing but be bluntly honest with you--I think it is well past time someone did it. And I don't "dislike" you--I don't even know you. Good grief, earlier, you were demanding that I wish you were "dead"--can't you see that it's you who is taking things a bit too personally? This isn't about like/dislike--this is about your disruptive and negative approach to people. And you're hardly the person to cast aspersions with regard to "honest dialogue," given your conversational "style."

I think this thread stands, in its entirety, as a commentary about the way you interact with those with whom you differ.

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Response to MADem (Reply #118)


Response to MADem (Reply #118)


Response to BainsBane (Reply #163)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 11:11 AM

173. Of course I realize I'm still being ostentatiously ignored

after the last time you demanded links and I gave them, so you'll have to read this on logout.

I expect proof with links that I have made direct accusations that one or more named member is a misogynist

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2370723

The edit history is still available.

Original version with no edits.
459. actally I provided statistical evidence
to counter your male victimization whine. You insisted that men were victims of crimes and women were perpetrators. I believe all criminals should receive a trail and be punished if found guilty. I do not--and never have--make exceptions based on sex. In fact, I have consistently argue that female statutory rapists be treated every bit as severely as male ones because the crimes are identical.

Your very argument equates maleness with criminality, while I made no such point. I merely pointed to statistics that show that men commit the vast majority of violent crimes because you insisted men were disproportionately victims, clearly a false assertion. Evidently you despise information so much that being presented with it is--for you--evidence of misandry.

You need to provide quotes where I make any of the absolutely absurd accusations you make. I NO Where said male victims of crime don't merit equal treatment. That is entirely a function of your own paranoid misogyny.

I live in the inner city. I've spent all day defending Dorner's victims, many of whom are male police officers. You have no evidence for such accusations. Your responses are not rational.


1) You falsely insist I claim to speak for all women, which I have never done.

"We" is compound, not singular.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4267343
The difference is that there is tolerance for bigotry against women because we don't count as equal human beings.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4298911
BainsBane (22,308 posts)
125. I wonder if the issue
Is that some men know they will never have any actual contact with these women so they see their own sexuality as limited to ogling and harassing women in public. Whereas we women know that kind of behavior doesn't result in sexual activity, at least not consensual sex.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4298549
47. Yes, because what women want most of all
Is not to be considered human beings.


Advanced Search, above right.

Do I get a prize? Maybe I'll finally get my pat.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #173)


Response to BainsBane (Reply #174)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 12:31 PM

177. *yawn*

I know I said it but I didn't actually mean that!!! I meant something totally different than what I actually said!!!

The person who decries "attacks on women" continues to attack women.

That would be you, not me, ma'am. Remember my "several uses" of the B-word subthread? That conversation where you outright lied about me and then threw a fit because I brought up your verified-by-Skinner sock puppet? Sure, we can talk about attacks on women. Let's do.

Obviously if I edited it out, I thought better of it.

My money's on that having something to do with a possible hide, and getting locked out of the thread, rather than actual remorse, but whatever.

You did work hard to look through old edited out text.

No, I didn't. Muriel_volestrangler called you out for it downthread, and that convo shows up on a search.

I suggest you check the dictionary for the meaning of the word we.

Er, OK...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/we
Definition of WE
1
: I and the rest of a group that includes me


If I do a search of your posts will I be sure you have never used the words we or women before?

Will it look anything like your search of my posts for the word "bitch"?

Are you now claiming it does mean all women, but only if I used it, because it means something totally different for you?

But hey, I'm over 30 and a chubby chick, so I can't be a real feminist anyway. So says your heroes at FEMEN, so it's okay to attack feminists like me.

Well, that was juvenile. I'm 41, feminist and a chubby chick. Why do you feel you need to haul out the childish insults every time someone talks back to you? That sure sounds an awful lot like silencing.

The women on DU though--go for the jugular. We don't count.

Oddly enough I get along with quite a few of the women here. Just not a few rude, obnoxious and insulting women. Vaginas don't come with invisible "feminist" criticism shields.

What I do detest is discussions like this that become about nothing that personal squabbles. I can't imagine anything less important.

And yet there you are, every thread, spitting out post after post after post on personal squabbles while simultaneously complaining of being silenced. For an unimportant little topic you sure discuss it a lot. Maybe you should just not read those posts, as you keep advising every single person who gets offended by you?

Don't bother replying. I'll put you back on ignore.

Don't tell me what to do. I will speak as I see fit. That is not a privilege granted only to you.

Yeah, I'll reply, because ignore or not, I know you're going to read it.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #173)


Response to BainsBane (Reply #176)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 12:43 PM

178. I'm not the one trying to deny I said it. That would once again be you.

Last edited Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)

I said women need to stop being afraid of what men think and I meant women need to stop being afraid of what men think. I'm not going to go back and pretend I only meant "a few women" because it might make me look bad to someone I have no respect for in a later attack on my character, because that would be being terrified of what someone else might think. Women do need to. That doesn't mean they will.

ETA any women who were offended by my "women" grouping, as several of us get with your "we women" and "attacking feminists!!!" fairly often, were welcome to step forward and express their desire to continue bending their lives and actions around random men's opinions of them. None did, although one dood showed up to remind me how afraid women ought to be of doods. You're still welcome to post your argument in favor of women worrying about what strangers think of us in the thread and kick it, if you like. Just like so many of us do to your posts, in fact. That's known as "discussion".

You put me on ignore because you lied about me and I called you on it, and brought up your verified sock puppet which for some odd reason you prefer people not to discuss. Most people would consider that to be you getting personal. The conversation's linked in my other post. Spin it however you want.

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Response to MADem (Reply #96)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 07:03 AM

124. Out.Of.The.Park. N/T

 

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Response to beevul (Reply #124)


Response to MADem (Reply #72)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 06:58 AM

123. Spot on, Sir. Bravo. N/T

 

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Response to MADem (Reply #72)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 08:00 AM

128. Boom.

...drops mic..exit stage left.

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Response to Inkfreak (Reply #128)


Response to MADem (Reply #72)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 10:42 PM

152. Ouch

 

You have more patience than I do.

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Response to mythology (Reply #152)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 11:19 PM

153. I try!

Don't always succeed, but I give it my best effort.

I think, unfortunately, it comes with age...!

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Response to MADem (Reply #153)


Response to BainsBane (Reply #162)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:12 PM

185. Ooooh, some snark!

Yes, that helps your argument! And no one could possibly be more creative than you are!

Hey, if you want to lean back on phrases like "no evidence" to imply that you didn't alert on my first post in this thread, I'll say that I believe you -- how's that?

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Response to MADem (Reply #72)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 06:14 AM

156. ...

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Response to RainDog (Reply #156)


Response to MADem (Reply #72)


Response to BainsBane (Reply #165)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:04 PM

184. You might not realize this, because you don't read what others write very often or very thoroughly,

but it's quite possible to identify a person by their writing style.

I think that jurors take their jobs VERY seriously, and when they see someone who is going out of his or her way to put words in people's mouths, when they perceive that the alert message is total bullshit that takes a poster's comments completely out of context, and when they read beyond the single post alerted upon, and realize who in the thread is pulling that shit, goading and baiting posters and making accusatory remarks about their attitudes and intentions, they make a determination, based on something called "common sense," as to who the alerter is, and they act accordingly.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #16)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 04:16 PM

30. Cool Story Bro

Your story isn't cute though, it's rather off putting.

Your story is cute, only I've been on MIRT and I know for a fact people don't get kicked off for using sexist insults unless they make a habit of doing it repeatedly. Even then it's extremely rare. I have even seen members lay down the gauntlet to protect trolls who used vulgar sexist terms within their first few posts.


I happen to know in fact that people do get nuked for sexist insults. I also see things in shades of gray rather than black and white. When the gray isn't so dark, the MIRT culture will allow for an attempt at a teachable moment.

I'm not surprised that you think what you said is truth, nor should you be surprised that I find it a gross exaggeration.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #30)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 07:32 PM

61. The only point of contention

is whether one believes the words cited above are sexist insults and should get a troll booted off. Perhaps some defended such trolls on the assumption that if anyone takes offense at sexist words it must be a result of their family raising them with uptight values. People who speak about women in such ways reveal who they are, and that is why they are protected. The teachable moment is to make women realize they don't deserve the same respect the other half of humanity does.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #61)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 08:14 PM

69. Again back to your black and white world view

That is the point of contention. Your position allows no room for context, when context is everything.

When you raise the uptight values thing, one might wonder if that is a dig about a mis-statement one made relatively recently, or is one being overly sensitive and mis-reading the context?

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #69)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 08:32 PM

77. It is definitely a reference to a recent statement

the kind of statement that sears in one's mind.

I'm well aware that the great majority of MIRT members are committed to equality and do not accept such language as acceptable.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #77)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 01:18 AM

99. Again, context is everything

I suspect your mind was well seared before you read that. Especially since what you think it said wasn't actually what it said.

It must be a dog's life in your black and white world.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #99)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 01:34 AM

100. The context was precisely

What made your post so offensive. You entered a thread where women were
talking about experiences being leered at by adult men, solicited for prostitution and molested at ages ranging from 4-15, and proclaimed that any shame we felt was because of how we were raised. Now you play victim because I remember the insult. I would be surprised if anyone in that thread forgets it.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #100)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 02:24 AM

105. For the record

On the off chance anyone actually trusts your version, here is where what you refer to was resolved with the person to whom I made an unfortunately worded reply.

I'm going to tell you this once. You don't know me. You don't know my history. How dare you assume that I know nothing of being on the receiving end of teen aged molestation. How dare you assume that my intentions in that thread were to bash victims! Did I screw the pooch with my reply? Yes. I also own it. Your assumptions about my motivation are wild fantasy on your part.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #105)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 02:39 AM

107. I don't claim to know you

And the thread is precisely as I described. You may not have bothered to read
through it before replying, but that doesn't change the context or what you said.

You did not link to the post where you made the comment. It is here. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4219406

Members have to look at the first version since you have since edited it. I'm glad you understood how offensive that post was, but you don't seem even remotely concerned with having insulted me and never bothered to respond to me at the time. You may have thought you were only addressing the OP, but those in the thread didn't see it that way. I made clear to you that people were talking about experiences at ages 4, 10, and 12 and I don't believe you bothered to clarify yourself to me. I did not see your later changes, though I returned to that thread several times that night to look for a response to anyone and saw none. I'm limited to a phone now so can't check time stamps. The point was I was left with a very clear impression based on your first comment and subsequent defenses of that comment. I have never claimed to know a thing about you other than the posts I recall reading.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #107)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 09:16 AM

132. Yet people in that thread both found and accepted my apology

It's pretty obvious that you don't want apologies, you want clubs that you can beat people with. I don't think I even replied to you at all in that thread. There was no progress to be made in attempting to explain anything to you, like there is no progress to be made now.

This is obvious from your interactions here in this thread and many, many other threads.


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Response to hootinholler (Reply #132)


Response to BainsBane (Reply #144)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:15 PM

186. I don't accuse you of "knowing me"

I accuse you of projecting what ever nefarious purpose you've invented on to what little you know of me.

I will not apologize to a bully. I don't harbor a grudge over something unknown that I allegedly ascribe to you. I harbor a grudge over your being a bully, taking conversations out of context, and doing so often enough that it is predictable not only by me, but by a myriad of other well behaved DUers.

So no, you didn't get a reply in that thread, you will not get an apology from me because you have continually attempted to bully me into being nasty. The best I can do is pity, because the harvest from what you've sown will be bitter indeed.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #186)


Response to BainsBane (Reply #77)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 02:09 AM

102. Excuse me?

When you say the great majority of MIRT members are committed to equality You imply I am not in their number. If I valued your opinion I would be offended.

Why not just come right out and tell me what you really think?

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #102)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 02:43 AM

108. All I know is what I see you write

and who you chose to defend in MIRT. You know that every bit as well as I do. Since my opinion means nothing, there is no reason to share it.

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Response to MADem (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 03:43 PM

24. Here ya go!

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #24)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 03:54 PM

25. Hee hee! nt

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #24)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 03:58 PM

26. Thanks!

 

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #24)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 09:55 AM

137. same shit, different year

 

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:45 PM

6. Is this about the use of "prick" on DU?

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Response to polichick (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 02:08 PM

17. feel free to do your own poll

It's not a term I myself use.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 07:50 PM

67. Someone had just posted that word when your thread appeared...

Just wondered if that's what inspired you.

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Response to polichick (Reply #67)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 10:29 PM

92. No, it was inspired by the Christie fat shaming poll

and threads. That I think is a valid question though. I myself try to avoid that language because I know some find it offensive.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:45 PM

8. Certainly offensive and not appropriate for DU. nt

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:47 PM

11. Context. SlutWalk? Attention whore? "Karma's a bitch"? n/t

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 05:03 PM

36. Yes, context matters.

Also, I always wonder why people put b***h. Do they think people say it in their head as B Star Star Star H? No! They read, and say in their head, bitch. Is not reading it that way, and saying it that way, the same damn thing as typing it that way? ha!

Maybe I'm off my rocker today! lol!

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Response to Sissyk (Reply #36)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 05:13 PM

40. If I post elsewhere and repost here,the asterisks show up .

Keeps my posts from getting caught in certain family filters. And I don't rewrite them here-no point.

If I am posting here at first, well shit a goddamn hell fuck, I leave the asterisks out.

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Response to riqster (Reply #40)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 06:19 PM

48. lol!

I understand when reposting or copying something.

But, I saw a jury alert with pretty stars in it. That's what made me wonder if anyone went C Star Star T, or B Star Star Star H. I used star instead of asterisks because that really becomes a tongue twister.

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Response to Sissyk (Reply #36)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 05:26 PM

43. I was blasted...

for saying I don't get all offended over using bitch. I don't. In my opinion it's gender neutral--certain people lost their shit when I said that before. I stand by that. Bitch is used in so many different contexts that it's lost the 'punch' it once had.

Most of the women--no all of the women--that I know don't take it as an insult. One of my favorite t-shirts reads:

I'm not a bitch

I'm the bitch

and it's Ms. Bitch to you.

I love that shirt and get compliments from men and women.

I don't call a woman anything I wouldn't call a man and vise versa. Like attention whore, corporate whore..etc. Context (as said above) matters. I'm not a fan of just saying-- certain words are bad and should never be said/used. Of course there are some words I'd have a hard time finding a reason that would be acceptable...

Though I do hate the 'c' word. Never could tolerate that.


Just a point for the trigger fingers that want to alert (and jury)... This comment goes directly to the question in the OP...if we can't discuss the question like adults then we shouldn't post OP's like this.

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Response to one_voice (Reply #43)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 05:52 PM

46. I don't get offended by it either.

and would wear that shirt.

I think the 'c' word (haha, I did it myself just for the jury) is the only word that I really don't like. Besides discussions of the word, I have never heard it used in a context that wasn't horrid.

There is not much anyone can say to me, about me, that would really offend me. I'm just not that type. I would probably laugh in their faces if it was tried.

Good to see you back, onevoice; and hope things are going good for you!

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Response to Sissyk (Reply #46)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 06:29 PM

51. The c word is definitly the deal breaker for me.

 

I hate that one as well.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:47 PM

12. Oh goodie, this again n/t

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:48 PM

13. corporate whore is appropriate-

 

for any gender-

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #13)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 01:27 PM

139. True - an essential term when talking about politics.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 01:50 PM

15. META!

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 02:40 PM

18. Sexist slurs will get a 'Hide' vote from me, no matter whom they're aimed at

Same goes for racial or ethnic slurs, fat-bashing, religious bigotry, and trans- or homophobia.


This concludes my important PSA for anyone
who needs to adjust a jury blacklist...


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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 02:43 PM

19. Please indicate which of the slurs in this oh-so-earnest post would NOT result ...

in a thread hide.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 02:45 PM

20. I have seen all of those listed above allowed by juries

with the possible exception of c....t. A couple aren't even worth bothering to alert on because juries never hide them.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 03:30 PM

23. In context? A woman was called a whore? A slut? A bitch? And it was allowed to stand?

I'm not talking about "attention whore" and the like, but a direct slur. Because I have seen numerous posts hidden (as well they should have been) for employing any of those appellations.
I'm not saying that an occasional direct slur doesn't slip through via a questionable jury, but I don't believe that this is a common occurrence.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #23)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 04:10 PM

29. She's not a big fan of "attention whore", either, Bravo.

 

Just to clarify, if I were to call a man an "attention rapist" or "attention pedophile" that would be better than calling him a "rapist" or "pedophile"? How about inserting a homophobic or racist slur after attention. That would be so much better? And if I did so, and you commented on it in a thread without using the word "attention," that would make you dishonest


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Response to opiate69 (Reply #29)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 04:55 PM

34. The word "whore" doesn't only apply to women.

 

FFS.

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Response to Vashta Nerada (Reply #34)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 05:06 PM

37. Yes, and to suggest that it does is rather an odd stance--especially in this day and age. nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #37)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 05:12 PM

39. Agreed.

 

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #23)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 06:23 PM

50. yes, frequently

A couple months back someone had a name this caption thread and referred to some conservative woman--Bachmann, I think---as a "sl..t." People continually refer to conservative women or Hillary Clinton as "b...h," and it remains. I recall someone insulting a victim of sexual assault by using a quote from Marion Barry "The b...h" set me up." A jury allowed that to stand. Below someone posts jury results of the use of the c word not being hidden. Another poster in this subthread is evidently still irked that anyone would suggest there is anything wrong with insulting a fellow DUer as an "attention w.....e." His original response to my PM he posts below was not to bother replying to me but to post in a group from which I am banned and then say something to the effect of if my uncle Bob had "boobs" he would be woman. In other words, it's okay to call women anything one wants, because after all we are only women. If uncle Bob were a woman, you could insult him too. Sexist terms are accepted as normal among far too many, which speaks to the extent to which misogyny is ingrained in American culture.

I recall you yourself posting about a jury verdict in ATA that you found troubling, so you must have some awareness of this.

If you want to examine the use of any of the words above, simply enter one of them in the DU search bar.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #50)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 06:42 PM

52. I do remember being troubled and posting about it. I just don't remember it happening often.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #52)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 08:59 PM

82. I think you should take her advice

Last edited Fri Jan 10, 2014, 10:33 PM - Edit history (1)

plug the words into the search bar, and see the uses that are "frequently" being left to stand- and the context they're being posted in.

I actually think everyone in this thread should. Much like the one being complained about downthread, things are not always as they seem.


https://www.google.com/search?q=bitch&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com
https://www.google.com/search?q=cunt&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com
https://www.google.com/search?q=whore&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

ETA contrary to popular belief, context DOES matter.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #82)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 02:32 AM

106. Yes.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #82)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 03:16 AM

112. That is hilarious and everyone should look too. nt

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #50)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 06:54 PM

55. You certainly have a ..... creative way of interpreting the written word...

 

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Response to opiate69 (Reply #55)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 07:02 PM

57. By all means, enlighten me

as to what you did mean.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #57)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 07:13 PM

59. Nah.. I think for a New Year's resolution..

 

I'm going to try to heed Shaw's sage advice...

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Response to opiate69 (Reply #59)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 07:35 PM

62. I didn't think you could

I have observed that from certain quarter charges of misinterpretation and distortion never result in an explanation of what I supposedly misunderstood. I take that as confirmation I understood perfectly well in the first place.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #62)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 07:38 PM

64. ...

 

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Response to opiate69 (Reply #64)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 09:05 PM

83. +1 n/t

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Response to opiate69 (Reply #64)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 09:58 AM

138. rofl, never seen that before but its spot on.

 

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 04:08 PM

28. The C word still stands on another thread on page one.

On a thread with the words fat shaming in the title. It's deep down on the thread, but clearly there, and no one seemed to mind. I'd alert, but it would be a waste of time, I've learned.

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Response to Pathwalker (Reply #28)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 04:54 PM

33. I took the gamble and lost.


On Fri Jan 10, 2014, 02:24 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

Replace pricks with cunts in your OP and see how the discourse progresses. eom
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4309349

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

There is no need for this word (c*nt) here on DU, just as there is no need for the word prick in the title of the thread. I am asking you to judge just this one word in this response (the thread it replies to was left to stand when it shouldn't have). I thank you for please taking the time to really think about this. ~Laura

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Fri Jan 10, 2014, 02:33 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I will vote to hide just because it is out of topic, and therefore inappropriate and disruptive to the conversation at hand.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The post is inappropriate, rude, over the top and deliberately disruptive. It meets the criteria for hiding it.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I dislike the word also but believe the poster was using it to contrast the one in the OP. If s/he referred to someone as one, I'd vote to hide it immediately. With this usage, he was just making a point - an interesting one, IMO
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given



***Part of the reason why I don't spend tons of time here anymore****

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #33)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 05:38 PM

44. This is why I no longer alert OR spend much time here, either.

Nor will I give any of the very few pennies I have to spare to support the drivel here. I've got better places to spend my time and money.

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #33)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 08:09 PM

68. Wow.

That was awful.

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Response to Pathwalker (Reply #28)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 05:41 PM

45. In the example you cite, the term is used in isolation. No one is being labeled with the slur.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #45)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 06:19 PM

49. IMO, there is no proper context for that word.

Clearly, your mileage varies.

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Response to Pathwalker (Reply #49)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 06:49 PM

54. So if I were to post that ...

"Cunt is a despicable word which should never under any circumstances be used to describe a woman", you would take offense.
You are correct, my mileage does vary, because not do I only find the above sentiment proper, I whole-heartedly endorse it.

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Response to Pathwalker (Reply #28)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 07:05 PM

58. This is why context matters. The word in question wasn't used to insult anybody.

 

But to raise a question about the use of such language in general.

Calling someone that would be a different matter.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #58)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 09:06 PM

85. Sometimes context matters not at all. That word, alone in any context, should

never be posted on DU...or its use (for whatever reason) defended.

At least the vote was 3-3.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 04:29 PM

32. Depends on the part of speech and,

to me, the word. Life's a bitch? Doesn't even hit my radar. Call someone an attention whore? Meh, not my favorite expression, but it's used for men and women. Slut and slutwalk and slut shaming are all being discussed and dissected and rediscovered by bloggers and journalists and activists, so I think it would be difficult to talk about those topics without using the word.

If a poster calls a woman a slut, bitch, or a whore...I would have a have a hard time imagining a context where I wouldn't vote to hide, but there may be circumstances where I wouldn't.

I hate the C word; I know it's an American hang-up, but I find it massively offensive in any context and I think most DUers agree.



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Response to kiva (Reply #32)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 04:55 PM

35. Half of them do, anyway.

I just alerted on the C*word (which doesn't really need a context in my opinion either) and it stood 3-3.

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #35)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 05:55 PM

47. Aaarrrggghhh!

I missed that...in this thread?

Edited: I see your link above.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 05:08 PM

38. How is this even a question?

 

I cannot imagine that anyone would ever consider posting such a thing. That's not to say it hasn't happened, of course, but the thought of it truly boggles me.

Edit: And then I read the rest of the thread after posting to see some examples. *boggle*

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Response to Shandris (Reply #38)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 10:33 PM

93. Yes it is relatively common

You must have also seen the posts by certain members outraged that anyone would question their use of such terms, and even one telling me I have no right to be offended by being called a b h or a c...t and that I was the real sexist for referencing an Onion parody.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 05:15 PM

41. April 6, 2004

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1354644

There are 10 threads of discussion there, FYI.

Just in case anyone wants to avoid re-inventing any wheels.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #41)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 08:41 PM

79. I remember those--I was in read-only mode way back then, for the most part! nt

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #41)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 08:48 PM

80. 10 years... jeebus..

 

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 05:17 PM

42. Really depends on a case by case basis...

 

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 06:45 PM

53. Appropriate for DU? Emphatic No.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 07:21 PM

60. Why is it that the very people that tell others to Trash Thread or put people on Ignore, never do so

 

themselves?
But instead knowingly start flame bait threads instead. Is it because they think stirring stuff has the potential for so many good digs?

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Response to RC (Reply #60)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 08:18 PM

71. I don't know because I don't keep notes on people.

I would not know a person's motivation because, with very few exceptions, I try to meet threads head on with an open mind. Yes, I've been burned, but I'm still not investing in a notebook.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 07:40 PM

65. Heh... Heh...



You said polls

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 08:17 PM

70. Another flamebait poll? Wonder who posted it?

Gee, what a huge surprise!

I'm fucking shocked. Fucking shocked, I say!

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #70)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 08:28 PM

75. Like sands through the hourglass...so are the Days of Our Lives....

It's like a soap opera, comes on every day, like clockwork!!!!!

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #70)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 08:33 PM

78. Looking into my crystal ball

I see these poll results referenced/linked in future alerts.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 09:55 PM

86. I voted!

 

lol

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Response to Boudica the Lyoness (Reply #86)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 10:14 PM

88. Does that extend to racist and homophobic insutls as well?

Or are women uniquely unworthy of basic respect?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #88)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 01:53 AM

101. I think you could get your answer by reading some stuff from the poster

 

Or you could save yourself some time, and just accept my eyerolling emote as informative enough.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #101)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 08:20 AM

129. Well, at least that one was honest

and simply answered the poll rather than pitching a fit that I had the nerve to post it.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #129)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 09:55 AM

136. Saying that your poll is shit-stirring is also an honest opinion.

The opposite of honest is not "pitching a fit".

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Jan 10, 2014, 11:14 PM

98. It's just a poll people.

 

People should always be respectful in the words they use here and never call people those names.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 02:20 AM

104. I'm offended by all of the *

that make reading the poll like doing a cross-word puzzle. If you are not using them in anger, I think you are allowed to spell them out.

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Response to goldent (Reply #104)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 02:57 AM

110. You would be surprised

What's get hidden around here. I have observed that some are free to use those terms on anger but if a feminist reposts what they say, her thread is hidden. PWF is a risky business. Otherwise, I would have written the words out. It truly is a sad state of affairs, but that is how it works.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #110)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 02:59 AM

111. I used them ALL below.

Words are not magical things. They do not contain power unto themselves.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #111)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 03:37 AM

113. Ah, but you aren't PWF

Clearly it isn't the words themselves but who uses them and how. Your yourself have benefited from the fact that jurors more often hide references to offensive comments than the original comment itself. The subject was something sold in Japanese vending machines.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #113)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 03:38 AM

114. Is this what you do now?

You wait until people respond to your thread and then start jabbering about old threads?
Can't you stick to one subject at a time?

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #114)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 04:05 AM

116. It is the exact same subject

And a precise example of what I was talking about to the above poster. If I had wanted to be nasty about it, I could have been more specific.

What exactly is your complaint anyway? That I didnt repeat the vulgar words referenced in the OP so you could alert on me?

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 02:44 AM

109. Anthony Bourdain calls himself an "egg slut" all the time.

He LOVES eggs on all sorts of things. Especially nice and runny.

He calls himself an "egg slut". It's a nice phrase and evokes precisely the right tone.

Some people dress like asses, some like buffoons and some like sluts.

Words are words are words are words.

They have uses. Some people find the use of the word "fuck" offensive. And yet, in some cases, it is PRECISELY the right word. Same for slut, bitch and whore, as well as dick, prick, ass, cock, and little shit.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 03:46 AM

115. 3 DU search links that tell the real story about how these words are used on DU.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #115)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 04:12 AM

117. Does that include when the host of a

Certain group called a feminist a w....e and then blocked her when his post was hidden? Or when a poster attacked one of Assange's victims by referencing a quote from Marion Barry, "the b. ..h set me up"?
Or is it the situation I described above where feminists had posts hidden for calling out a male member on their inalienable right to denigrate women with vulgar insults? Sorry, I'm on my phone so can't see the "hilarity" myself.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #117)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 05:09 AM

119. To me you're just babbling now.

What are you even talking about? What are you trying to do?

This is what I am talking about. It's like Meta on steroids. You start a post. People answer. And then you start whining, and moaning about stuff from the past.

Is this how you ENJOY spending your time?

Look at the links. You'll see how people use the words in context.

Or for that matter, look at your own poll results. 90% say the words aren't appropriate.

What are you even DOING?

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #119)


Response to Bonobo (Reply #119)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 07:27 AM

126. I start whining?

Read the thread. You and your buddies are engaged in endless poutrage that I post a simple poll, very similar to two other polls in GD that have proceeded without accusations of being flame bait or shit stirring. Why has mine been? Because it deals with sexist slurs, something a small number of posters have decided is their inalienable right to use at will.

I'm talking about actual examples of how these words are used. Are you seriously so unaware of the proceedings of your own group you missed Nikon's attack on Redqueen that led to his banning her? I was very clear about the context of the other insult. There are dozens more. People use that language repeatedly and they are often, in fact usually, left by juries.

Most members consider this poll a no brainer. As someone asked, how is this even a question? Of course one should not insult and degrade women by using vulgar slurs. Yet a few are outraged that anyone post a poll suggesting there might be anything untoward about discourse that demeans women as less than human. God only knows why. I am past caring about what compels people like that. They have no bearing on me, my life, or anything else.

GD has long been the new META. Half the posts in GD are Meta posts. Big fucking deal. That ship sailed a long time ago. If you don't like the thread, don't participate. I didn't force you in here. You need not respond to this or anything I write. It won't break my heart. Really.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #126)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 07:39 AM

127. Keep ignoring the links that tell the real story. nt

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 05:19 AM

120. ouch

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 05:22 AM

121. I really don't care...

I do not post enough to notice this as a big deal, nor do I get my knickers in a twist over language. I'm a woman and I've been known to use the B Word in abstraction.

I also stay out of GD precisely because of the way it's been the last few weeks. So, there's not a whole lot of offensive language tossed around the photography group.

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Response to a la izquierda (Reply #121)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 07:08 PM

146. How would you feel

If senior colleagues at work used that language to refer to female faculty members or students?

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 08:21 AM

130. Are any of those words being used to insult women at DU?

If so, could you please point an example or two? Each of the terms you provided are banned her when used to talk about women so if the posts in question (if any actually exist) haven't been hidden they should be brought to the administration's attention - which I'm very happy to do.

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Response to last1standing (Reply #130)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 08:30 AM

131. Look at #115 and you'll see how they appear on DU.

Let's just say, no. They're not. But don't believe me, click the search links.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 09:20 AM

133. Only if used in that context.

They are otherwise simply words.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 09:24 AM

134. Shouldn't there be some disclaimer it's ok if directed R's

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Response to ileus (Reply #134)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 07:06 PM

145. There is an option for that in the poll

the third one.

This was inspired by the poll and discussion about fat insults directed at Christie.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #145)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 07:36 PM

147. got it...can't believe I'm the first voter.

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Response to ileus (Reply #147)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 07:36 PM

148. Are you interested in my views on that?

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 09:46 AM

135. depends on context.

 

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 09:33 PM

149. No, I think they shouldn't be used.

Think about it, words like b!tch and sl*t have been used to put women down for ages, just like the n word has been used against black people. Would you call a black person who did something wrong a n***er? What about someone who is gay. If you disagreed with them would you call them the other f word? If not, then what makes it ok to do the same thing to women?

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 09:46 PM

150. I'm kind of on the fence about "bitch"

It's such an apt word to describe Sarah Palin -- and I say that as a woman. The others I can live without.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #150)


Response to BainsBane (Reply #172)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 12:19 PM

175. What if I only insinuated it

and didn't actually use the word "bitch". Suppose I was teasing a friend and said he was messing around with Palin, that she was going to have his puppies, and that he needed a rabies shot - would that be acceptable to you?

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2014, 10:17 PM

151. in a significant minority I think sexist slurs are not cool, but should not be censored....

I want to know who I'm talking to, and their posting history can be informative. I think the community can find better ways to educate and create change, better than censorship. But there have been numerous times when I've been willing to give a poster the benefit of the doubt based on few previous interactions, only to have more knowledgeable DUers point me to a prior history of misogyny (or other issues, in other contexts). That history is enlightening.

I respectfully ask my sisters and brothers on DU to help us root that shit out, not cover it up.

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Response to mike_c (Reply #151)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 12:45 AM

154. People don't want to be educated

They seem to think that using such language and advancing such views is a right. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people say "who are you to educate me." I no longer try.

The other thing is there is much less tolerance for homophobia and some other forms of bigotry. I agree there should be no tolerance for any of that, but I fail to see why gender-based insults should be an exception.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #154)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 01:07 AM

155. Trying to force your opinion on others

is not educating.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #155)


Response to pintobean (Reply #155)


Response to mike_c (Reply #151)

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 09:28 AM

168. You know hiding a post doesn't cover it up

In fact, it makes it more likely to be read. What it does is communicate to the poster that such language is not acceptable on the site.

I'm curious, is that your view about other kinds of bigoted language, like racism and homophobia?

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)