For some of my fellow white people, who feel you have been victimized due to your race

[CreekDog]

Indeed.

[AverageJoe90]

1. It *does* occasionally happen, unfortunately.

While it is certainly true that racist violence/insults/etc. directed towards "whites" on an individual level are far rarer than towards People of Color, and that structural racism has never affected "whites" as a whole in this country(WASPs certainly haven't been affected by the latter), the former(as in individual racist bigotry) does still happen, unfortunately. And as I'm sure most DUers of all backgrounds will agree, every individual incident, insult, attack, etc. should be rebuked as much as racist violence, language, etc. against a Person of Color would be.

[HipChick]

5. hit the nail on head

[CreekDog]

132. I thank whomever alerted my OP, I really do thank them

this is their way of saying that they can someday change their race. nobody is going to tell them they will always be white!!!

dang it.

oh, and because I tricked the jury system into thinking I'm nonwhite (all my whitey hating posts tricked the software)...I just got to jury my own OP. And I voted to LEAVE IT ALONE.

I was part of the majority. This place has gone nuts, must be the lack of sunlight.

--------


On Fri Jan 10, 2014, 07:17 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

For some of my fellow white people, who feel you have been victimized due to your race
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024312579

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Flamebait.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jan 10, 2014, 07:31 PM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I think it's funny.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Jeez Louise, engage the "Flamebait" or use Skinner's patented 'Trash This Thread". Simple, no?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[VanillaRhapsody]

26. oh puhleeze

right....sigh..."I have been racially stereotyped" ...come on man.

There is no comparison here.....

[AverageJoe90]

33. Re: "right....sigh..."I have been racially stereotyped" ...come on man." You do realize.....

.....that I never once said or even implied that, right? (in fact, where did you get that, anyhow?) To be honest, I'm not sure you even really read what I wrote. In fact, I'll even quote the part you seem to have missed:

While it is certainly true that racist violence/insults/etc. directed towards "whites" on an individual level are far rarer than towards People of Color, and that structural racism has never affected "whites" as a whole in this country(WASPs certainly haven't been affected by the latter).....

There you go. It's all there. Plain as day.

[VanillaRhapsody]

37. AverageJoe...

I KNEW thats what this was....."Black people are racist too"!

"far rarer"....your words...so rare as to be neglible....meaning in the overall scheme of things...its a blip.

What part of all but 4.5% of Corporate CEO's are men....the 4.5% CEO's of the top 1000 companies are women!

Meanwhile women make up 51% of the population.....

THAT is the kind of thing we are talking about!

[AverageJoe90]

54. .....

"I KNEW thats what this was....."Black people are racist too"!"

Not what you said earlier, though, TBH. You basically said, or at least that's how it came across, that I supposedly claimed that I was a victim of stereotyping; even though I said no such thing, nor was it even implied.

What part of all but 4.5% of Corporate CEO's are men....the 4.5% CEO's of the top 1000 companies are women!

Meanwhile women make up 51% of the population.....

Okay, and I'm not denying that structural problems exist, and in fact, I pointed out as much in my original reply. That doesn't mean my other points in response to the OP were invalid, though.(to the contrary, in fact!)

[VanillaRhapsody]

55. this isn't about YOUR personal problems....do you understand???

This is 'in general" ...with a name like "Average" you should have a concept of what the term "average" is...and what an "exception" to the rule is...

why do you keep fighting this?

[AverageJoe90]

60. Re: "this isn't about YOUR personal problems....do you understand???" Never said it was.

Or even implied it. Honestly, I don't know where this is even coming from, to be honest.

why do you keep fighting this?

The question I'd like to ask is, why are you fighting? You and I actually see eye to eye on the basics at least; so why can't we try to at least acknowledge that?

[VanillaRhapsody]

61. Now you asked me if I ever experienced it myself in the other thread...

OMG....you seriously do not understand...that women, Blacks, Hispanics, and Gays experience it every single day....You obviously have no idea how insidious it is...

YOU are not a victim!

[AverageJoe90]

65. "Now you asked me if I ever experienced it myself in the other thread..." Where?

Can you provide an actual quote, please?

[Hosnon]

107. This is surreal.

You are very patient.

[AverageJoe90]

109. Thanks, I guess.

TBH, VR and I actually do agree on the basics(e.g., People of Color do face more disadvantages overall than white folks). I just don't agree with certain bits of the terminology and some of her more precise interpretations of the problems, etc.

(edit: or maybe this was meant for VR? I dunno.)

[CreekDog]

134. he is, he really is.

he is still patiently waiting to be convinced climate change is real.

[VanillaRhapsody]

68. Your "other point" is that White privilege doesn't exist...becuase

(you think) it hasn't helped you!

[AverageJoe90]

75. And, as far as I can see, I haven't *directly* benefitted from "White Privilege".

And even if I have a problem with the term "white privilege", that doesn't mean that I don't recognize that People of Color still face more disadvantages than I ever did. I do.

[Hosnon]

108. If you're white, you benefit from white privilege. nt.

[dionysus]

100. it happened to me a couple times. nothing major but it was enough to feel what it was like,

which wasn't good.

[AverageJoe90]

104. I don't recall any real-life incidents towards myself, to be truthful.

But then again, I've always tried to treat everyone I know with fairness & respect, so I'm sure that helped.

[dionysus]

112. here's what happened.

freshman year in college I was a avid basketball player, played a bunch of ball with some black kids. One of them was Ronnie. got along great with these guys. They used to call me Bird because I was white. After freshman year, I became a hippie, stopped playing ball, and lost touch with those guys.

a few years later, I stayed over the summer in the school apartment complex. wasn't much going on but some kids stayed for the summer. one night we heard a party, decided to check it out since we were still underage and couldn't buy beer on our own. there were 4 of us, me, two other white dudes, and Pete, the drummer in the band I was in, who was black.

we roll up to the party, it seemed to be a black fraternity. no other white people around. the guy running the show points at each of us white dudes "5 dollars, 5 dollars, 5 dollars". then he points at Pete. "3 dollars." Pete got mad and said "fuck you nigga, let's go guys". He must have been REALLY upset because he never used those kind of words around us. (ok, I know he was pissed because he swore the whole way home)

2 years later, it's the complex wide party at the end of the year called Spring Jam. everyone is getting down and partying their asses off. I'm standing outside having a cig, and this guy walking by suddenly does a double take and stops... "Bird?!" It was Ronnie!

we hadn't seen each other for almost 3 years at this point so we're catching up, having a few beers. Ronnie says "Bird, I'm looking for papers, I can't find any anywhere, you got any?" I happened to have a pack of zig zags in my wallet, I offered to give him some.

"no man, come back with me, i'll smoke you up and we can hang out!" all is well as we head back....

...to that same frigging apt from two years earlier.

I walk into the place, and all conversation grinds to an immediate halt. they're looking at me, looking at Ronnie, then back to me. I'm the only white person there. the SAME asshole who pulled the beer stunt is there on the couch and says loud enough for everyone to hear "oh hell no!"

I looked at Ronnie, he was about as embarrassed as one could get. "Bird, I didn't realize.. I..."

I said no problem, handed him the zig zags, and said "hey keep the pack", and left.

while I didn't experience anything major as being denied a job, being pulled over for no reason, or worse things like violence, it was enough of a taste of bigotry that I knew I didn't want to experience it again. I felt bad for Ronnie, he saw me as just a person, which is how it should be. I hope they didn't give him too much of a hard time.

point is, racism isn't cool, no matter who does it.

[Throd]

2. But nobody here is saying that.

[99Forever]

3. UMmmmmm...

... more yummy flamebait.



Fucking pathetic.

[okaawhatever]

10. Agreed. What total loser posted this thread? Must be a rwnj here as a troll. nt

[AverageJoe90]

34. I'm not so sure of *that*, per se.....

He *has* been here a lot longer than many of us, and not many trolls last a decade without being exposed, you know?

With that said, though, it does appear to be flamebait.....yes, even if not intentionally made that way.

[pipi_k]

150. OK, so let me see

if I have this right (going to post an analogy here, so pay attention)...


someone sets out a big pile of dogshit on the sidewalk hoping to get a bunch of people to step in it.

Some don't step in it.

But then every once in a while someone comes along, looks at the pile, sees that it's dogshit, and then steps in it anyway. And then calls the person who put it out there a loser.

Honestly, this place is such a hoot sometimes.

[LanternWaste]

13. I imagine many dullards also believe that social issues are "yummy flamebait"

I imagine many dullards also believe that relevant and topical social issues are "yummy flamebait."

[Kurska]

4. Oh boy another divisive white people vs. everyone else thread n/t

[JI7]

7. the op is white

[Kurska]

11. And...? n/t

[JI7]

12. so it's not about white people v everyone else as many white people agree with the op

who is also white.

[Kurska]

14. So because he/she is white they can't make a divisive OP?

I don't get your point.

[CreekDog]

16. I have many white friends!

[WillyT]

19. LOL !!!

[Kurska]

21. ...

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. thank you!!!!

[Dr. Strange]

53. You lie!

[goldent]

143. Nothing wrong with that.

[riqster]

151. Some of your best friends, perhaps?

[cinnabonbon]

155. Hahah! nt

[Gormy Cuss]

24. The OP, as a white person, is speaking from her personal knowledge.

She's been on this theme for a while now and for some reason it gets under the skins of DUers every time. It's confrontational but I don't see how it's divisive.

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. for some people it seems the truth.....Owwwwwwiiieee it burns!

[AverageJoe90]

38. That's not what I felt. I wasn't personally offended by this.

But this kind of hit-and-run posting isn't really helpful or constructive, either. Just sayin'.....

[VanillaRhapsody]

40. Personally offended by what???

[Kurska]

42. Um, I assume by the OP n/t

[Kurska]

41. So... whats the "truth" here exactly?

All white people are Steve Martin?

[Kurska]

36. I don't think OP's personal knowledge extrapolates well to all white people.

di·vi·sive

adjective
1. tending to cause disagreement or hostility between people.

Take a gander at the thread itself and tell me if you think it fits that definition.

Obviously that doesn't mean we can't have threads about this, but you think people would bother to craft a thoughtful OP if they are going to post the thread. Again, this just seems like more white vs. other flame baiting (and yes white people can post that kind of stuff too, no idea why you appear to think they can't)

[VanillaRhapsody]

43. How is there a disagreement that there is Racism Misogyny and Homophobia in the U.S.?

How is THAT divisive on DU?

[Kurska]

44. lolwut

What are you even talking about? Hell, I'm gay and I have no idea where homophobia even remotely entered into this discussion.

[VanillaRhapsody]

49. Discrimination? Perhaps you've heard of it?

Last I checked homosexuals get discriminated against too...I am hoping this isn't news to you..

[Kurska]

56. Yes actually, I have.

I broke a guy's nose for playing a very ill advised game of bash the queer once.

I'm formally acquainted with the phenomenon.

This thread seems to me to be about racism against white people not existing. I think that very much depends on how you define racism. If you mean institutional and systematic oppression directed at a class of persons, no it doesn't. However, if you view racism as harmful behavior that is directed at someone because of their race, than I don't see how you could say that has never happened to white people.

Regardless, I still don't get what on earth you are talking about. This thread isn't about discrimination against anyone, it is about discrimination against white people not existing.

[VanillaRhapsody]

58. Then why are you arguing FOR White people saying they are not "privileged"

to be White. Do you think Straight people have some advantages right now? Are they blessed with the "privilege" of marriage in any state recognized by the govt?

THIS is the point we are trying to make...and you are in essence taking the side of those saying that "Straight couples do NOT have more privileges than Gay couples."

[Kurska]

59. Again, lolwut

It is self-evident that white people generally enjoy unfair advantages in America. Personally, I think for everything that lifts you up there might be something holding you down (gay, poor, etc...) so calling an individual white person privileged isn't always true. But as a group white people do enjoy unfair advantages.

No idea where you got that I'm arguing against privilege.

Are you absolutely certain you are posting in the correct thread my friend?

[nomorenomore08]

62. If you agree on the basics, then why does the term "white privilege" seem to bother you so much?

Just going off of your posts on previous threads, that's all.

P.S. I'm glad you taught that homophobic asshole a lesson. It's a lesson a lot of other straight guys (unfortunately) need.

[Kurska]

74. Well, personally I don't like the term.

I think it gives off the wrong impression and I often don't like how it is used. People seems to talk about it like being born white is like being born on the easy setting of a video game. I've seen enough of the world to know there are some white babies coming out withdrawing from heroin, to parents who couldn't give less a of a damn and with very little possibility of social advancement. I'd say that kid has less of a chance than a black baby born to a billionaire. I certainly wouldn't describe his life as easy mode.

I also don't like how it is used. Ostensibly, it is supposed to be used to describe the overall condition of white people in general. More often than not, I see it used as a way to ascribe someone as "socially privileged" like it is a indelible trait at the core of that person's experience.

I think the underlying social phenomenon is obvious though, it is the applications of the derivative concepts that I often find dubious.

[VanillaRhapsody]

89. So how do you feel about the term Homophobic?

Or "Straight Privilege"?

[nomorenomore08]

110. "Ostensibly, it is... used to describe the overall condition of white people in general."

That, I think, would be an oversimplification. And I certainly agree wholeheartedly that every individual white person does not have it easy in life - that would be an absurd, if not offensive, claim. I would also wish to avoid over-emphasizing race at the expense of other factors - e.g. gender, sexuality, disability/ability.

As I'm pretty sure I've said before on here, I agree that a civil approach to discussion is usually best - but on the other hand, being too "nice" can lead people to complacency, in the sense of "not my problem."

[dionysus]

113. well put, sir.

[VanillaRhapsody]

63. Okay then....this is what this is about...You are arguing with my position which is...that they DO!

that's MY position. That White people have been privileged in this country...

I am not calling the individual privileged...I am calling "White People" privileged. A single White person cannot just say "uh uh....I am not privileged" and have the concept not still be true.

That "individual" you are defending is arguing that it White privilege doesn't exist...because it "hasn't helped him".

[Kurska]

77. Are you gay?

If not Then you have straight privilege.

Are you born you preferred gender?
If so then you have nontrans privilege.

Born with all four limbs?
Well you got a classic case of some limb integrity privilege there.

The point I'm trying to get across here is that everyone is "privileged" in some way as compared to someone else.

I also have no idea what individual I am supposedly defending here.

[VanillaRhapsody]

78. No Everyone is NOT...White Men...

I am in the middle of a debate with a guy that thinks that he as a working class white hasn't benefitted from being born White in America...

That is like saying we in America are not more privileged that people in Darfur....

[Kurska]

79. So, you're denying your straight privilege?

tut tut.

[VanillaRhapsody]

80. NO I am NOT....

I am saying I AM Straight Privileged...and HE is White Privileged...and HE is man privileged!

HE is denying THAT!!!

[Kurska]

81. I have no idea who "he" even is. n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

82. Average Joe...earlier is was LumberJack...somebody..

both with this same schtick....that White Privilege doesn't exist because HE claims that since he works for Minimum wage (or something)...he doesn't get to benefit from "White privilege".

[Kurska]

83. I think you may legitimately not be in the sub-thread you think you are. n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

84. I think you replied to someone who was also replying to this person....

and so my wires might have gotten crossed based on that....but that has been the long on going debate I am having with one person for the moment. He doesn't believe in White Privilege because He is not in a better place in life...Obviously....he would be a CEO of a Fortune 500 Company by now if he had ANY White Privilege at all!

[AverageJoe90]

91. Who's LumberJack?

Also, I've been unemployed for five years now, so I dunno what else to say in that regard.....

In any case, I argued, as you know, not that I *can't* directly benefit from "white privilege&quot or rather, the lack of privilege of People of Color to put it more accurately), but merely that not everyone has, and as far as I can honestly tell, I haven't directly benefitted, either.

[VanillaRhapsody]

94. they guy before you that tried to make the same tired argument.

YOU DO directly benefit from being born White in America...because you are not a victim of racism...

you don't get racially discriminated against...therefore you are privileged in THAT

in the very least.

Just the same way you are privileged to be born in America..not in some place like Darfur. Its that simple yet you refuse to acknowledge it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

124. Please provide a link to back this up.

Just one.

I insist.

[AverageJoe90]

88. There isn't any disagreement there.

What people do argue about, however, is stuff like whether or not all white people benefit directly from racism, or if whites can only benefit, etc., or if it's more complex than that. As a student of history, I hold the latter view; the same general elite clique propagating racism against People of Color often used it as a division of, and even occasionally a bludgeon against, dissident whites, particularly where labor unions were concerned in the first half of the 20th Century, for example.

[VanillaRhapsody]

90. YES All White people DO...

you are NOT a victim of Racism...therefore you benefit from THAT at the very least.!


What do you think the word "privilege" is only about money?

[AverageJoe90]

93. And again, this is a complex issue in which dualistic thinking doesn't apply well.

I mean, if it was *that* simple, that "you either benefit or you don't".....then this would be pretty much open and shut, would it? But it's not.....is it?

[VanillaRhapsody]

95. it is NOT complex at ALL..in fact it is quite simple...

will you ever be pulled out of a line at the airport...because you look "swarthy"?

Will people follow you around the store because they think because of your skin color you might steal something?

Were you ever accused of shoplifting because you were trying to buy a $300 designer belt while black?

Would you be racially profiled by someone like George Zimmerman and shot because "they always get away" Will you ever have to warn your sons about how to "act while black"?

Will ANY of those things EVER happen to YOU? NO they won't therefore YOU Average Joe..are privileged.

[AverageJoe90]

102. Again, I've been trying to point out.....

That it's not so much (extra) "privilege" for whites, as it is the lack of said "privilege" amongst People of Color, in regards to ethnicity; you and I at least seem to agree on the latter, I'd suspect, even if not the former.

[cinnabonbon]

156. wait so

you're admitting that your "white life" can be seen as a privilege when you see it from the POC's position, because there's a lack of privilege in their life compared to what they see white people have. So why are you objecting to POC using it to describe what is basically their reality?

[uppityperson]

120. Of course an individual of whatever group can experience "ism", but to say privilege does not exist

is wrong.

Rather like saying I got harassed by a couple lesbians for being hetero. But to say I do not have privilege by my sexual orientation or lgbt's do not get treated worse overall is wrong.

Or a man got harassed by some women for being male so anyone who claims male privilege should be ashamed? Nope. Doesn't work that way.

Individuals can experience bigotry based on a number of factors.

There is institutionalized white privilege and to deny it is wrong. To say your individual treatment equal treatment historically of blacks in America, and even current day too often, is also wrong.

[uppityperson]

122. The real problem is certain groups experience bigotry, arrest, lower wages, suspicion, poorer school

poorer schools, fewer chances of a decent education or job.

True, every individual has different privileges, but as a larger group, people with lighter skin have it easier than darker, men easier than women, heterosexuals easier than lgbt, all sorts of groups have more of less privilege as a larger group.

It isn't a dubious concept at all and yes, it is measurable.

Because I make more than John Doe down the street does not mean women's wages are comparable to men's. To say white people are in prison in no way means they are incarcerated at the same rate as black people. Those are measurable.

The real problem here is to deny privilege exists.

[uppityperson]

141. "blame innocent white people for your own individual circumstances & poor life choices". Wow.

"I suppose it's more fashionable to blame innocent white people for your own individual circumstances and poor life choices."

Wow. Your answer to it isn't a dubious concept at all and yes, it is measurable is that?

Your reply to every individual has different privileges, but as a larger group, people with lighter skin have it easier than darker, men easier than women, heterosexuals easier than lgbt, all sorts of groups have more of less privilege as a larger group is "I suppose it's more fashionable to blame innocent white people for your own individual circumstances and poor life choices"?

[cinnabonbon]

157. Did an RW troll come into DU

and reply to you? Seems like the replies are gone now, at least.

[VanillaRhapsody]

126. If you are White YOU HAVE benefitted from it...no doubt about it.

If others ARE structurally racially profiled...and you aren't...YOU just benefitted...

[Agschmid]

127. So let's talk about your timeline a bit...

Claiming victimhood because of something your ancestors experienced hundreds of years ago is irrational and self-indulgent.

Slavery ended in 1865, that's when the amendment to the constitution was ratified... That is 149 years ago (hardly hundreds of years)... Let's say there is a new "generation" every 30 years... That means there have only been 5 generations since slavery "ended".

This ignores the whole issue of if slavery potentially still exists when you look at sex trafficking.

[VanillaRhapsody]

125. there ARE exceptions to the rule...but YOU have benefitted whether you like it or not...

what you are describing is Male privilege...welcome to the world all the rest of we women live in...happens to all of us.

[uppityperson]

129. Because until privilege is acknowledged to exist, things can not change to lessen it. Not trying to

"score points" but to try and level the playing field a bit.

How have we all benefited? How have I benefited as a female? How did Trayvon Martin benefit as a young black male? How do kids in poorly funded schools benefit? How has my gay uncle benefited, what "advantages" has he had by being gay?

[uppityperson]

136. It is impossible to do away with actions based on bigotry as it will hurt those being disadvantaged?

Um, people who are disadvantaged are not in a privileged group. Privilege typically means advantaged, not disadvantaged.

Are you confused, thinking those in privileged groups have disadvantages by being in a privileged group? Or was that a typo?

Yup, Trayvon Martin had the advantage of being racially profiled and killed because of that. What an advantage he had.

"it's impossible to "level the playing field" without hurting people who are already disadvantaged, even though they may belong to so-called privileged groups." What do you mean "so-called privileged groups"?

[uppityperson]

140. So don't try and work toward equality. Don't work towards making schools be more comparable because

taking money away from an over-funded one will hurt those kids there. Tough shit about all those kids in the underfunded school, right? Can't hurt the over funded one.

If you're a poor, disabled, white female, why work towards getting economic parity because it will hurt you. Why have the ADA because by giving you a job, it will take one away from someone else. Why have equal rights amendment because it will only hurt men. What?

Again you confuse individual circumstances with the larger societal group based on a characteristic of the group. Rather like saying climate change can't be real because it is cold out, mixing weather with climate.

You do not think there are groups which enjoy privilege, only "so-called" groups. You don't think working towards doing away with bigoted actions or disadvantages based on some characteristic will help because then you will be hurting someone.

And because we can not make absolutely everything equal or "fair", why try at all.

Huh.

[VanillaRhapsody]

153. Have to say I agree with you 100%

easy for those at the top of the "food chain" to tell those not, to just shut up and quit telling us what we have "privileges".

[uppityperson]

154. Thanks. I agree that none of us fit JUST 1 group, but if you compare 1 characteristic, typically 1

will have a lot more privileges, one less. Gender, age, sexual orientation, skin color, size, etc etc etc, looking at one characteristic, there are differences in how they are treated. And of course as an individual, it may not always be true. But in general, it is.

Thank you for replying to them so much, I appreciate it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

147. but those things aren't a result of systemic and structural racism, mysogyny, and homophobia...

THAT'S why...

[VanillaRhapsody]

146. No its not pointless...its very important.

[VanillaRhapsody]

144. no we are talking about something specific and endemic....

You don't get to change that....its not about scoring points. Its about facts...

[VanillaRhapsody]

145. Please explain to me then "Black privilege"

if everyone has "privileges...

What are the Gay privileges by the way...

[cinnabonbon]

158. You and Gormy

have been amazing in this thread.

Just thought I'd let you know.

[Gormy Cuss]

45. I think it's causing hostility from people who are uncomfortable discussing the topic

but that's a feature, not a problem, on a political message board.

[Kurska]

47. I think race relations are an uncomfortable topic for many people white, black or otherwise

Probably why addressing them in a very flippant and divisive way is liable to cause conflict, even among people who are overwhelming on the same side (like most people on DU are, it seems to many people forget that).

[VanillaRhapsody]

51. Why is being truthful "flippant"?

[Kurska]

57. I'm still not getting what glorious and objective truth that is being imparted here n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

66. SOME people on this thread ARE denying White Privilege...

that is what is going on....the truth is because they don't as a rule have adverse things happen to them SIMPLY because they were born light skinned...is the least of the privileges.

[AverageJoe90]

70. Re: "the truth is because they don't as a rule have adverse things happen to them".

Not exactly accurate, TBH, or at least, not as written, anyhow. As I've said before, nobody is doubting that People of Color, do have many more disadvantages to deal with than "white" folks. And that on top of individual racism, structural racism remains a huge problem as well.....I think pretty much everyone on this website will agree that "white" folks in America do not suffer the latter and aren't even threatened by it; People of Color have had to deal with both, sadly. But individual racism & other prejudices can still happen to anybody.....even if "whites" don't suffer structural racism as well.

[VanillaRhapsody]

71. The fact that White people "do not suffer the latter"

IS the very reason we are calling it White Privilege...that is the very least of the privilege..at the very least you as a White man....will never "suffer the later"

That's what we are trying to get you to see....THAT at the least is YOUR White Privilege!

"not suffering the later" ....the later is a LOT worse than you seem to think it is...by blowing it off and minimizing it like you do.

[AverageJoe90]

92. You and I are on the same page, I believe.

(like most people on DU are, it seems to many people forget that).

Yep, this is true, especially on issues like this. Though, don't get me wrong, these issues do need to be discussed sometimes.

[VanillaRhapsody]

96. NO we are not...YOU don't think you have been privileged...

and I say...Yes you have...You have benefitted from White privilege whether you want to admit it or not.

Apparently based on the responses gotten by these threads...these subjects need to be addressed...ALOT!

Even shockingly on DU...

[AverageJoe90]

98. #92 was in reply to Kurska, though.....I think you may have misread me there. nt

[pintobean]

8. Have you seen the Edward R. Murphy study

from the early eighties? Here's the documentary video.

[tkmorris]

6. This is SO not helping

I hope you seriously consider deleting this thread. It cannot possibly end well.

[AverageJoe90]

9. Yeah, true.

There's no problem with having candid discussions on "race" in America and how it affects people.....in fact, sometimes, it's needed.
Too often, however, many of these threads sadly end up becoming an "us vs. them" type deal and, as a result, flame wars erupt.

[VanillaRhapsody]

29. How is this an "us vs "them"

the person writing this IS White!!!!

Unless you mean..."Us people who take being reminded that racism, misogyny, and homophobia exists personally....and those that don't"!

[LanternWaste]

15. The History of White People in America-- a great, satirical mockumentary made in 1985 by Martin Mull

The History of White People in America-- a great, satirical mockumentary made in 1985 by Martin Mull. If you ever get the chance to see it, give it a watch... funny stuff that will piss of the privileged and the privileged who deny privileged.

[CreekDog]

17. My mom bought the book when i was a kid

Last edited Sat Jan 11, 2014, 11:34 AM - Edit history (1)

My friends and i, some white some not, would read it to each other.

"How White People Talk:

'it's been a month of Sundays'

Lol

[Skip Intro]

115. "How White People Talk" eh? n/t

[dionysus]

118. and they can't dance worth a shit, either!

[CreekDog]

130. Yes, in fact. And even though it sounds like a joke

it is COMPLETELY SERIOUS.

be offended, be extremely so. they are making fun of your race man. they are trying to replace YOUR man with THEIR man.

[CreekDog]

148. Yes, it's a book. Do you read bro?

[cinnabonbon]

159. It sounds interesting. I will go look for it.

[ProgressSaves]

18. We're real privileged here in Appalachia. Boy, I tell you what.

Because we're white, they're just throwing cash at us.

[Gravitycollapse]

23. I think you missed it...

[VanillaRhapsody]

30. Have you been racially profiled...has anyone ever followed you around a store

just because of your skin color....have you been told "the apartment is already rented" when it hasn't because you are not the right skin color...etc etc etc....

When was the last time you were sexually harrassed on the job or paid less money simply because you have different plumbing?


All of these things HAPPEN to people everyday.....but somehow they DON'T happen to you.....and you think "you don't benefit"!!!

[nomorenomore08]

67. Even working-class white people do have certain relative advantages, such as those you named.

"Privilege" is probably best defined as "all the bad things that don't happen to you because you're white/male/hetero/etc."

[VanillaRhapsody]

69. EXACTLY....I have been trying all day to get this concept across to Joe....

though he refuses to accept that he HAS been privileged NOT to be treated like the groups we are discussing...


Thank You for putting it another way!

[AverageJoe90]

97. Though this is undoubtedly true, there are still some issues with the use of the word "privilege"...

including in regards to ethnic issues, mainly because, in this case, "race" has never been a simple subject to talk about, and that privilege does also indicate status above the "norm", as it were. While the most liberal undoubtedly did apply in South Africa, and even some other places, it doesn't apply here in the States, and this is, ironically, actually because of the fact that white folks have been the majority for pretty much forever.

Again, the phenomenon you've described is very true; People of Color are more liable to be pulled over for B.S. reasons, jailed for crimes they didn't commit, etc.; women are many more times likely to be sexually harassed and still get paid less for the same work overall, etc.; LGBT folks still can't marry in many places. These are all very real problems. All I'm saying is that, if we want to reach a wider audience, we may need to coin a newer and more straightforward term, especially replacing "white privilege", but even for "privilege" in general.

[nomorenomore08]

111. Fine-tuning one's message is certainly not a bad thing.

But the problem with an overly conciliatory approach is that it can lead people to simply say, "Not my problem," and go back to sleep.

And so long as we're making comparisons, I certainly wouldn't think it far-fetched to compare the Southern U.S. under Jim Crow to Apartheid-era South Africa, in the sense of utter disenfranchisement of black citizens. And 50 years is not such a long time, in sociopolitical terms.

[Blue_In_AK]

116. VR, I am a white female

and back in my hippie days 40+ years ago I indeed was denied apartments AND followed around in stores. I had a store detective in a Denver Penney's try to turn me in as a runaway even though I was 21 because I had a Texas driver's license, not Colorado. People get profiled for all kinds of reasons. I don't know your age, but there was a song that went " the police in Denver don't like no long hairs hangin' round."

This is not to deny that AS A GENERAL RULE white people have it easier, but only if they fit into "white people mode."

[Gormy Cuss]

39. You have more privilege than the people of color who also live in Appalachia.

Count on it.

[nomorenomore08]

64. Social class is a very important factor that many downplay, for whatever reasons.

But how does that do anything to disprove the existence of systemic racism?

[Skip Intro]

117. Now don't rain reality on the hate parade.

if you're white, you're problems don't matter, and you are the cause of the problems of everybody else. Yes, because you're white. It's all about equality and anti-racism, don't you know?

[Fumesucker]

20. Someone needs a hug

[Warren DeMontague]

22. I think we should talk about hurtful anti-can bigotry

[CreekDog]

137. someone HATES THESE CANS!

[lancer78]

25. I know of one instance

This mobile home park I used to live in was sued by the Tennessee Human Rights Commission for using a water utility system that was based on the number of individuals in each unit. I guess the Hispanics complained that the system was discriminatory because the Hispanics had on average more people in their homes. All I know is that all the Hispanics who complained against the white owners got rebates in cash and us whites got squat.

[VanillaRhapsody]

32. OMG!!!!!

"all you know is"????


I KNEW this was what this was all about.....

trying to prove that "Black people and Hispanic people are racist too"! "Black people and now Hispanic people are taking my jobs" "women should cover up if they don't want to get harrassed...." etc etc etc.!!!!

[lancer78]

149. Actually

I saw the settlement papers the owners had to pay to the Hispanics. They got reimbursed for water. This is not made up. Things like this are very rare, but they do happen.

[VanillaRhapsody]

152. then there you go..."this is very rare" (if this story is true...sounds like "Welfare Queen" woo

to me...but that's the point....EVEN if I accept this at face value "rarely" do they enjoy this "benefit of being Hispanic" that you are claiming here...

It still doesn't change the fact that YOU as a White person DO receive value just in being born White

It doesn't change THAT FACT at all.

[Gravitycollapse]

35. This sounds made up. Similar to the stories my grandparents used to tell me...

When talking about how "the hispanics" and "the blacks" were too lazy to hold down a job or go to school.

[JI7]

50. that sounds like when i heard some "asians don't pay taxes" from someone

when i was a kid. and it was told similar style as yours also. nothing to back it up. just some "all i know is" or "my uncle told me" or some other bs.

[whistler162]

31. And another reason not to slam ones head continually

into a brick wall!

[Eleanors38]

46. Who says "the 60s are over?"

[VanillaRhapsody]

48. Let's all watch how the professionals get the point across

since it keeps coming up...I guess this movie was soooo "divisive"

[Sheldon Cooper]

76. The Lord loves a workin' man...

Don't trust whitey!

[freshwest]

86. 'You mean i'm gonna stay this color?' BWAHAHA!

[VanillaRhapsody]

87. "I cooked you your favorite meal

Tunafish salad on White bread with mayonaise and a Tab and a couple of Twinkies"

[The Straight Story]

52. You are not a victim, I am! No, I am a bigger victim! Pick me! You can't be one, only me

We need a victim bingo card, include Opening doors, jokes, a variety of words, etc. White people get a blank card. Unless they can be another group (female, atheist, jewish, muslim, etc and so on).

Personally, I think we are all victims because of something (class, race, gender, hair color, teeth, looks, etc) and how others treat us.

Some, I guess, just get to be more victimy.

[nomorenomore08]

73. We all have relative advantages and disadvantages in life. I'll agree with that much.

But that doesn't mean we can't point out self-evident phenomena such as systemic racism, classism, etc.

[AverageJoe90]

105. I can concur with that. eom

[NealK]

72. OMG! What did you do? Why did you start this OP?

[Comrade Grumpy]

85. This is some silly shit. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

99. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4308682

[cherokeeprogressive]

101. Are you fucking serious?

[NoOneMan]

103. ffs

DU'd new condescending, snarky war of the week. The primaries can't come soon enough, and I never thought I'd say that

[DesertFlower]

106. the department i worked in for many years had 5 employees --

3 white women -- 2 african american.

the 2 african american women thought i came from priviledge because i wore nice clothes and jewelry. they were shocked when i told them how i grew up -- not enough money to take ham sandwiches for lunch at school -- had to eat bologna -- wore hand me down clothes. graduated high school at age 16 and had to work and pay room and board to help my mom. grew up in a cold water flat. i was sterotyped.

in many ways being white and attractive worked for me. i'm 72 years old. my first jobs were as a receptionist. back then only attractive white women were hired to sit at the front desk and represent the company.

my husband was passed up for a promotion because of quotas. an african american man got the job. hubby had to wait another 2 years for that promotion. his manager was truthful about it.

once those 2 women realized how i grew up their attitude changed toward me.

[Skip Intro]

114. Um, your racism is showing.

You earn your reputation, I'll say that.

[madinmaryland]

123. Maybe you should stay in teh lounge where you won't be referred to as a DOUCHEBAG.

What the fuck is going on, creek???

[CreekDog]

161. Actually ever since the Lounge wars of 2009, I was called a d-bag and worse

but relax.

Though my posts attempting to reason out and think out what the term "white privilege" means are serious and designed to discuss whether the concepts behind it are true (I argue that they are), this post about Steve Martin is meant to be lighthearted. It's meant to joke about white people being too very offended at being considered to be the race with the least race related difficulties in this society.

I don't hate white people, but I do feel as a white person, I can make fun of my own group in the same way Chris Rock can make jokes about black people.

And honestly, should any white person really be offended by Steve Martin and The Jerk?

[cherokeeprogressive]

131. I don't White People with you.

[CreekDog]

160. You don't liberal with me either

or anyone else here for that matter.

[fromchaos]

142. Ahh Steve Martin

lol