Some Folks Say It's the Beginning of the End for the Christian Right -- Dream On,

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http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/idea-christian-right-retreat-almost-dangerous-christian-right

Some Folks Say It's the Beginning of the End for the Christian Right -- Dream On, They're Getting More Powerful




In the aftermath of the government shutdown, and the ongoing Republican Party internal civil war that followed, progressive media outlets have embraced the notion that the Christian Right is finally facing its demise. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The autopsy of the 2012 election produced a swarm of op-ed obituaries that either celebrated or foretold the political end times for the Christian Right. Jonathan Merritt, a columnist for the Atlantic, observed that the GOP’s electoral hammering in 2012 marked the end of evangelical dominance in U.S. politics. More recently, Steven Conn, a contributor for the Huffington Post, predicts the rise of Pope Francis will dissolve the glue holding the Christian Right together.

While these observations make for sound logic when examining national politics, they completely overlook the Christian Right’s state-by-state strategy.

The Christian Right is flying mostly under the radar because the media tend to be attracted to bright, shiny things that grab attention at the national level. The nation’s theocrats, however, are waging a battle for America’s soul at the local and state level, and these battles generally do not make their way onto CNN or the front page of the New York Times.

[JNelson6563]

1. Yes, this article is exactly right.

These theocrats are targeting local and state level elections. Look how many states are in the clutches of Rethugs. This is where we need to focus our efforts for now.

Julie

[LuvNewcastle]

2. I agree with the article. Those fuckers never quit, and saying their influence

is waning is dangerous. You can't compromise with them, either. They believe that they're absolutely right on every issue, and that the rest of us are tools of Satan. Telling the truth is the only way to combat them, and we're not talking about them nearly enough.

[Festivito]

3. The RW is flush with money to buy this shiny toy, and they need it.

Of course it will continue. But, the RW is running out of new verbiage to feed the idealism and even with a lot money, the power that money musters might wane.

[myrna minx]

4. K&R - This is how Michele Bachmann started - on the school board.

[Bluenorthwest]

5. So Francis is stridently and aggressively opposed to both equality for gay people and to

reproductive choice, he continues the protection of child abusing Bishops and priests, he has remained silent on the Ugandan law to imprison gay people for life, that nation is 42% Catholic.
How is Francis not the religious right? Opposes birth control, condoms for disease prevention, abortion, equal protection for LGBT people under the law. He teaches the same things the rest of his peers in the Christian right teach. Not a bit of difference.

[Katashi_itto]

6. Yes, Because Pat Robertson and Pope Francis are so much alike

"Not a bit of difference"
Snicker

[Bluenorthwest]

9. Pat Robertson is not the whole of the religious right, and Francis is part of the religoius right.

Francis is opposed to all forms of birth control, against all rights for gay people, calls abortion murder and these are a few of the dogmatic teachings he has in common with the religious right.
He is also a servant to wealthy and powerful people, currently protecting a Bishop accused of harming children in Dominica.
I see no difference, but then I don't see equality and choice as laughing matters as you do.

[Katashi_itto]

10. You wouldnt see a difference

[Bluenorthwest]

11. Nice personal attack without any other content at all. What's interesting is that you refuse to

admit or even address the many teachings Francis shares with the religious right, nor do you offer any ways in which his actions differ from the religious right. All you have done is make snotty wise cracks toward me, because I am so very correct. You can not counter my arguments, nor my facts so you are reduced to making ugly comments lacking in any salient points.

[Katashi_itto]

12. Whats interesting is your perputual fixtation and putting out literally the same post over and over

[Bluenorthwest]

16. So again it is about me, not about the religous right and Francis, who is of the religious right?

Can't manage to speak about the anti choice and anti gay activism they share? Can't even come up with an attempt to rationalize that, to explain it away? All you can do is make personal jabs, because you are wrong?
Religious right's two big 'issues' are abortion and gay marriage, Francis agrees with his fellow in the religious right fully on those issues. They also agree in their strident opposition to adoption by gay people, which Francis calls 'a form of child abuse' when he's not busy defending his child abusing priests and Bishops.
Do you also agree with them?

[skepticscott]

18. Pot, meet kettle

And yeah..some of us are perpetually fixed on equality for all. Cope.

[Katashi_itto]

19. Lol!

If half he stuff he posted were true maybe

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Everything I say about Francis is true, you have been asked to counter with your own arguments

but you repeatedly refuse and insert more insults. Francis is an anti gay activist, just like his fellows on the religious right. He is opposed to abortion as they are, but he takes it further than most of the others in that he also opposes all birth control.
Those are facts. Calling someone a liar without supporting your accusation is cowardly and intellectually dishonest.

[Katashi_itto]

25. I have pointed out your stance and so has others.

Calling me names wont change that.

You simply are a master of the False equivalency.

[Bluenorthwest]

29. So you are admitting you have absolutely no counter arguments to the facts I state. Fine.

I never called you any names. I have asked you many questions which you have not answered. You have not disproven a single thing I say, nor have others. Because it is true what I say. Francis is anti choice, anti gay, anti birth control same as others on the religious right. I have asked if you agree with Francis and the rest of the religious right on those issues, you did not find an answer to give.
You came to this thread and started in on me, but you have offered not one piece of actual information to counter anything I have said. Why do that if you have nothing to say?
You have no argument in the face of my facts. So you make empty insults. Not sure why you feel compelled to respond to my posts without any actual point to make.

[skepticscott]

26. Please, then...list us all of the things he said

that are objectively false (not just in the fantasy world you inhabit).

Providing more snark instead of putting your money where your mouth is will be consider an admission of intellectual bankruptcy.

[Katashi_itto]

27. Dear god just go look them up yourself. It essentially the same post over and over

Yes like I worry what you think

[skepticscott]

28. As expected

You have nothing. "The same post over and over again" asserts the truth...over and over again. Your claim that most of it isn't true is unsubstantiated garbage, and nauseating Catholic apologetics that defend homophobic bigotry and child abuse.

Why are you here again?

[Katashi_itto]

32. Oh yeah, because I wont bother to waste my valuable time digging up posts

you can just as easily look up yourself.

Who is the intellectually bankrupt one again?

[skepticscott]

33. I know where the posts are, thanks

But you're the one responsible for backing up your horseshit claims that someone else is lying, not me. Something that everyone reading this can see that you can't do (that would be the intellectual bankruptcy, dude). And yet you keep flailing, dodging and diverting, as if it convinces anybody.

Sad

[Katashi_itto]

34. Sort of babbling now aren't you. Prove me wrong. Go look them up its simple.

[skepticscott]

36. You made the claim that a poster was lying.

You have the burden of proof. Or did they not teach you that?

Demanding that someone else find evidence to support your claim is just more intellectual bankruptcy, so I'll let you wallow in that. We're done here.

[Katashi_itto]

38. See #34

[Bluenorthwest]

39. Now you are just insulting this other poster, still not a shred of proof for your baseless

accusations. You can not prove me wrong because I am correct, Francis is the religious right, religious and right wing, anti gay, anti choice anti birth control, anti equality. These are facts. Everything I have ever posted about Francis is a stone cold fact. Deal with it.
I'll ask again, do you agree with Francis and the rest of the religious right? Do you oppose equal rights for all and reproductive choice? Are you opposed to condoms for disease prevention? Are you against adoption by gay parents because 'the devil'? Francis says gay families are the devil's idea, a destructive attack on God's plan. Do you agree with that? All it takes is a yes or a no.

[Katashi_itto]

42. Your problem is you are unable to deal with evolving viewpoints. Once upon a time he made those

declarations but as Pope, his views have evolved.

Like how Obama's had.

Your major problem is you are so fixed on hating you cant see the forest for the trees. I am not saying he's perfect, but he's an improvement.

I think you would rather have Pope Ratzo back in office at least you wouldn't have the problem with people like me.

Hell I would be cheering you on. Francis however is a different matter.

Just because he doesn't march to your time frame, is your excuse to castigate him.

Not to mention simply making things up as you go. My insulting the other poster. Lol

http://www.latintimes.com/pope-francis-gay-views-flip-flopped-2013-pope-wont-judge-gay-priests-2010-decried-gay-marriage-move

The most interesting thing about Francis is the fact he is aware the Church has to wake up to 21 century realities or perish.

[Bluenorthwest]

47. Again a pile of personal attacks and not a bit of support for your assertions.

Once upon a time? Francis said the worst of his hate speech in 2010, three years ago when Argentina passed marriage equality laws much to his wrath and medieval carrying on. He never recanted, never apologized, he still teaches the same right wing crapola.
The President of Argentina described Francis's hate speech as 'Medieval and suggestive of the Inquisition'. That's how strident and horrific his diatribes there were. Lots of talk of demons and devils. Superstitious anti gay lunacy.
His only defenders are rude people who can't even answer a direct question, declare 3 years ago to be 'once upon a time' and make petty, shallow personal insults in lieu of any honest interaction.

[Katashi_itto]

48. See #34

Lets see Obama's viewpoints evolved almost exactly in the same timeframe.

Lol

[LuvNewcastle]

8. But he drives an old car, Blue. Only a liberal would do that.

It's like the new version of the British royal family we're seeing with Prince William. Power adapts in small ways sometimes in order to hold on to what it has.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. I missed the boosters in this thread, about the abuse of the Dominican boys:

"The Vatican on Friday rejected a Warsaw Office of the Prosecutor’s request to hand over its former envoy to Dominican Republic, the Pole Jozef Wesolowski, to face charges of sexual abuse filed by five Dominican boys.

Quoting the AFP, French newspaper Le Monde reports that Pope Francis declined Warsaw’s request to extradite the Polish national to face accusations by Dominican authorities.

Wesolowski was whisked out of the Dominican Republic and sent to Rome once local journalist Nuria Piera uncovered the scandal, which could also be linked to another Polish priest, (Padre Alberto) Wojciech Gil, charged with pedophilia in Juncalito, a town in a rugged region of Santiago province."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024315769

[LuvNewcastle]

31. Outrageous. The Vatican thinks their bishops are too good to face justice in

the countries where they reside. They're above the law, apparently.

[Bluenorthwest]

40. Equally outrageous are those who try to make such a man into some liberal hero

Hiding the guilty and accusing the innocent, that's the Francis method.

[NightWatcher]

7. I think they're isolating themselves from the rest of America

They're more and more being seen as mean spirited, driven by crazy religious fundamentalism, and unable to act rationally.

[ewagner]

13. Here's what bothers/scares the hell out of me

Mega Churches...

Think about these 2000, 3000, up to 5,000 member churches that meet several times a week for services, "bible study classes", "parenting classes", (some even assign mentors to families expecting a child or even CONTEMPLATING having a child)....the political indoctrination goes on two or three times a week in thousands of these mega-churches all over the country.

And the DO...MOST CERTAINLY DO talk politics from the pulpit.

And the congregations vote almost monolithically

That's what we're up against

[LuvNewcastle]

17. I look on them the same as I do any other cult, except they're a lot more

dangerous and prolific than any other cult I know.

[Thor_MN]

24. And many of them run schools, day cares, other businesses

They generate tons of revenue, much of which can be hidden away behind religious exemptions. They have taken the strategies of corporations to grow and prosper and applied it to religion.

[ewagner]

44. Yes,

I forgot about the schools and day care operations....then there are the "bookstores"....

[heaven05]

14. the truth will keep us 'free'

we need a cold shower every once in a while.

[MyNameGoesHere]

15. Hm not until they restock the Flavian Amphitheatre

with Lions again. Until then I don't see them going away.

[JaneyVee]

20. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't write policy based on

Bronze Age fairy tales. Keep it in church.

[Rozlee]

21. Our youth is becoming more secular. Their church attendance and affilation is falling off.

The real problem is that they're not participating in the political process and the religious right is a small, very vocal group that is extremely active and committed to their cause. They may lose elections in national government, but they win them in less participated state and local elections. They reign in state and local politics and they're in school boards and school textbook committees that decide school curriculums and it's in their best interest to change existing high school graduate requirements to less science and more revisionist history, thereby guaranteeing even more disengagement of youth in the political process in the future. While young people are being turned off by religion, they don't seem to be very politically active in anything but national elections. They forfeit all other avenues of government that are just as vital, if not more so, by doing this.

[mountain grammy]

30. This article is important for it's truth

"Progressives still have no idea how to talk to the beast that is the Christian Right, for fear of sounding politically incorrect or equally intolerant. But it’s time to call a shovel a shovel; the ideology of the Christian Right has nothing to do with love and compassion, and everything to do with violence and hatred. The movement draws its power from our complacency and timidity. Political op-eds that foretell the Christian Right’s demise serve only to make it an even greater threat to our democracy."

"The Family" by Jeff Sharlet is a must read on this subject. Every election is important. The ideas these people have are scary and becoming more and more mainstream.

Just saw "Sunday Morning" do a puff piece on Gate's new book. I assume they published it.

[ewagner]

45. "...becoming more and more mainstream. "

I think it is.

I'm seeing members of my own family getting deeper and deeper into the cults and allthough they dtell me they don't believe the political bs coming from the pulpit....they're buying into the lifestyle...bigtime

[fredamae]

35. Once we fully understand

and are able to separate out true Christianity away from these Religious Radicles ABUSING Christianity for corporate self enrichment - We'll be able to properly and without attacking actual religious freedoms, stand them down, imo
Obviously they hide behind those very protections to do their damage and we must first challenge that very point, again--imo.

[Sunlei]

37. yes, imo at the most local level the rw has control...however noone watches or audits them.

Expose the corrupt locals and they will fall hard.

Dixon, Ill. ex-comptroller Rita Crundwell sentenced to 20 years for ...
www.nydailynews.com/.../ex-bookkeeper-20-years-stealing-53-million-a...?
Feb 14, 2013 - A former city bookkeeper was sentenced to nearly 20 years in prison ... comptroller of Dixon, of stealing more than $53 million from public funds ...

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Correct

I can mention several local pols that are waging this holy war. We even cover them, but oops, you all can read it on CNN.

The caveat on this article is that progressives attack local media outlets, so yes, msnbc is your source, oops you mean they are stuck on Christie? Oh well.

[RichGirl]

43. When you leave a snake alone....it doesn't bother you.

If a snake feels threatened...it strikes out.

The Christian Right is crazier now than it has ever been because they know they are on their way out. Religion is on it's way out. Young people know it's crazy. When you have reality shows with Morman, Amish, etc kids leaving their sect...it's over.

That's religion...spirituality is broader, personal, expansive, unintrusive, etc...spirituality is live and let live.

[Zorra]

46. The christian right is satan, by definition.

Sa·tan
[seyt-n] Show IPA
noun
the chief evil spirit; the great adversary of humanity; the devil.

the devil, adversary of God, and tempter of mankind: sometimes identified with Lucifer (Luke 4:5--8)

[Old English, from Late Latin, from Greek, from Hebrew: plotter, from sātan to plot against]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/satan

[Initech]

49. And this, folks, is exactly why I'm 150% against a constitutional convention.

Because you know who has the influence? It's not us. It's the Christian fundamentalists. and I can guarantee that we won't like what they want for this country.