General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSome Folks Say It's the Beginning of the End for the Christian Right -- Dream On,
http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/idea-christian-right-retreat-almost-dangerous-christian-rightSome Folks Say It's the Beginning of the End for the Christian Right -- Dream On, They're Getting More Powerful
In the aftermath of the government shutdown, and the ongoing Republican Party internal civil war that followed, progressive media outlets have embraced the notion that the Christian Right is finally facing its demise. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The autopsy of the 2012 election produced a swarm of op-ed obituaries that either celebrated or foretold the political end times for the Christian Right. Jonathan Merritt, a columnist for the Atlantic, observed that the GOPs electoral hammering in 2012 marked the end of evangelical dominance in U.S. politics. More recently, Steven Conn, a contributor for the Huffington Post, predicts the rise of Pope Francis will dissolve the glue holding the Christian Right together.
While these observations make for sound logic when examining national politics, they completely overlook the Christian Rights state-by-state strategy.
The Christian Right is flying mostly under the radar because the media tend to be attracted to bright, shiny things that grab attention at the national level. The nations theocrats, however, are waging a battle for Americas soul at the local and state level, and these battles generally do not make their way onto CNN or the front page of the New York Times.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)These theocrats are targeting local and state level elections. Look how many states are in the clutches of Rethugs. This is where we need to focus our efforts for now.
Julie
LuvNewcastle
(16,834 posts)is waning is dangerous. You can't compromise with them, either. They believe that they're absolutely right on every issue, and that the rest of us are tools of Satan. Telling the truth is the only way to combat them, and we're not talking about them nearly enough.
Festivito
(13,452 posts)Of course it will continue. But, the RW is running out of new verbiage to feed the idealism and even with a lot money, the power that money musters might wane.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)reproductive choice, he continues the protection of child abusing Bishops and priests, he has remained silent on the Ugandan law to imprison gay people for life, that nation is 42% Catholic.
How is Francis not the religious right? Opposes birth control, condoms for disease prevention, abortion, equal protection for LGBT people under the law. He teaches the same things the rest of his peers in the Christian right teach. Not a bit of difference.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)"Not a bit of difference"
Snicker
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Francis is opposed to all forms of birth control, against all rights for gay people, calls abortion murder and these are a few of the dogmatic teachings he has in common with the religious right.
He is also a servant to wealthy and powerful people, currently protecting a Bishop accused of harming children in Dominica.
I see no difference, but then I don't see equality and choice as laughing matters as you do.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)admit or even address the many teachings Francis shares with the religious right, nor do you offer any ways in which his actions differ from the religious right. All you have done is make snotty wise cracks toward me, because I am so very correct. You can not counter my arguments, nor my facts so you are reduced to making ugly comments lacking in any salient points.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Can't manage to speak about the anti choice and anti gay activism they share? Can't even come up with an attempt to rationalize that, to explain it away? All you can do is make personal jabs, because you are wrong?
Religious right's two big 'issues' are abortion and gay marriage, Francis agrees with his fellow in the religious right fully on those issues. They also agree in their strident opposition to adoption by gay people, which Francis calls 'a form of child abuse' when he's not busy defending his child abusing priests and Bishops.
Do you also agree with them?
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)And yeah..some of us are perpetually fixed on equality for all. Cope.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)If half he stuff he posted were true maybe
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)but you repeatedly refuse and insert more insults. Francis is an anti gay activist, just like his fellows on the religious right. He is opposed to abortion as they are, but he takes it further than most of the others in that he also opposes all birth control.
Those are facts. Calling someone a liar without supporting your accusation is cowardly and intellectually dishonest.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Calling me names wont change that.
You simply are a master of the False equivalency.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I never called you any names. I have asked you many questions which you have not answered. You have not disproven a single thing I say, nor have others. Because it is true what I say. Francis is anti choice, anti gay, anti birth control same as others on the religious right. I have asked if you agree with Francis and the rest of the religious right on those issues, you did not find an answer to give.
You came to this thread and started in on me, but you have offered not one piece of actual information to counter anything I have said. Why do that if you have nothing to say?
You have no argument in the face of my facts. So you make empty insults. Not sure why you feel compelled to respond to my posts without any actual point to make.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)that are objectively false (not just in the fantasy world you inhabit).
Providing more snark instead of putting your money where your mouth is will be consider an admission of intellectual bankruptcy.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Yes like I worry what you think
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)You have nothing. "The same post over and over again" asserts the truth...over and over again. Your claim that most of it isn't true is unsubstantiated garbage, and nauseating Catholic apologetics that defend homophobic bigotry and child abuse.
Why are you here again?
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)you can just as easily look up yourself.
Who is the intellectually bankrupt one again?
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)But you're the one responsible for backing up your horseshit claims that someone else is lying, not me. Something that everyone reading this can see that you can't do (that would be the intellectual bankruptcy, dude). And yet you keep flailing, dodging and diverting, as if it convinces anybody.
Sad
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)skepticscott
(13,029 posts)Demanding that someone else find evidence to support your claim is just more intellectual bankruptcy, so I'll let you wallow in that. We're done here.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)accusations. You can not prove me wrong because I am correct, Francis is the religious right, religious and right wing, anti gay, anti choice anti birth control, anti equality. These are facts. Everything I have ever posted about Francis is a stone cold fact. Deal with it.
I'll ask again, do you agree with Francis and the rest of the religious right? Do you oppose equal rights for all and reproductive choice? Are you opposed to condoms for disease prevention? Are you against adoption by gay parents because 'the devil'? Francis says gay families are the devil's idea, a destructive attack on God's plan. Do you agree with that? All it takes is a yes or a no.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)declarations but as Pope, his views have evolved.
Like how Obama's had.
Your major problem is you are so fixed on hating you cant see the forest for the trees. I am not saying he's perfect, but he's an improvement.
I think you would rather have Pope Ratzo back in office at least you wouldn't have the problem with people like me.
Hell I would be cheering you on. Francis however is a different matter.
Just because he doesn't march to your time frame, is your excuse to castigate him.
Not to mention simply making things up as you go. My insulting the other poster. Lol
http://www.latintimes.com/pope-francis-gay-views-flip-flopped-2013-pope-wont-judge-gay-priests-2010-decried-gay-marriage-move
The most interesting thing about Francis is the fact he is aware the Church has to wake up to 21 century realities or perish.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Once upon a time? Francis said the worst of his hate speech in 2010, three years ago when Argentina passed marriage equality laws much to his wrath and medieval carrying on. He never recanted, never apologized, he still teaches the same right wing crapola.
The President of Argentina described Francis's hate speech as 'Medieval and suggestive of the Inquisition'. That's how strident and horrific his diatribes there were. Lots of talk of demons and devils. Superstitious anti gay lunacy.
His only defenders are rude people who can't even answer a direct question, declare 3 years ago to be 'once upon a time' and make petty, shallow personal insults in lieu of any honest interaction.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Lets see Obama's viewpoints evolved almost exactly in the same timeframe.
Lol
LuvNewcastle
(16,834 posts)It's like the new version of the British royal family we're seeing with Prince William. Power adapts in small ways sometimes in order to hold on to what it has.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)"The Vatican on Friday rejected a Warsaw Office of the Prosecutors request to hand over its former envoy to Dominican Republic, the Pole Jozef Wesolowski, to face charges of sexual abuse filed by five Dominican boys.
Quoting the AFP, French newspaper Le Monde reports that Pope Francis declined Warsaws request to extradite the Polish national to face accusations by Dominican authorities.
Wesolowski was whisked out of the Dominican Republic and sent to Rome once local journalist Nuria Piera uncovered the scandal, which could also be linked to another Polish priest, (Padre Alberto) Wojciech Gil, charged with pedophilia in Juncalito, a town in a rugged region of Santiago province."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024315769
LuvNewcastle
(16,834 posts)the countries where they reside. They're above the law, apparently.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Hiding the guilty and accusing the innocent, that's the Francis method.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)They're more and more being seen as mean spirited, driven by crazy religious fundamentalism, and unable to act rationally.
ewagner
(18,964 posts)Mega Churches...
Think about these 2000, 3000, up to 5,000 member churches that meet several times a week for services, "bible study classes", "parenting classes", (some even assign mentors to families expecting a child or even CONTEMPLATING having a child)....the political indoctrination goes on two or three times a week in thousands of these mega-churches all over the country.
And the DO...MOST CERTAINLY DO talk politics from the pulpit.
And the congregations vote almost monolithically
That's what we're up against
LuvNewcastle
(16,834 posts)dangerous and prolific than any other cult I know.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)They generate tons of revenue, much of which can be hidden away behind religious exemptions. They have taken the strategies of corporations to grow and prosper and applied it to religion.
I forgot about the schools and day care operations....then there are the "bookstores"....
heaven05
(18,124 posts)we need a cold shower every once in a while.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)with Lions again. Until then I don't see them going away.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Bronze Age fairy tales. Keep it in church.
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)The real problem is that they're not participating in the political process and the religious right is a small, very vocal group that is extremely active and committed to their cause. They may lose elections in national government, but they win them in less participated state and local elections. They reign in state and local politics and they're in school boards and school textbook committees that decide school curriculums and it's in their best interest to change existing high school graduate requirements to less science and more revisionist history, thereby guaranteeing even more disengagement of youth in the political process in the future. While young people are being turned off by religion, they don't seem to be very politically active in anything but national elections. They forfeit all other avenues of government that are just as vital, if not more so, by doing this.
mountain grammy
(26,598 posts)"Progressives still have no idea how to talk to the beast that is the Christian Right, for fear of sounding politically incorrect or equally intolerant. But its time to call a shovel a shovel; the ideology of the Christian Right has nothing to do with love and compassion, and everything to do with violence and hatred. The movement draws its power from our complacency and timidity. Political op-eds that foretell the Christian Rights demise serve only to make it an even greater threat to our democracy."
"The Family" by Jeff Sharlet is a must read on this subject. Every election is important. The ideas these people have are scary and becoming more and more mainstream.
Just saw "Sunday Morning" do a puff piece on Gate's new book. I assume they published it.
ewagner
(18,964 posts)I think it is.
I'm seeing members of my own family getting deeper and deeper into the cults and allthough they dtell me they don't believe the political bs coming from the pulpit....they're buying into the lifestyle...bigtime
fredamae
(4,458 posts)and are able to separate out true Christianity away from these Religious Radicles ABUSING Christianity for corporate self enrichment - We'll be able to properly and without attacking actual religious freedoms, stand them down, imo
Obviously they hide behind those very protections to do their damage and we must first challenge that very point, again--imo.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Expose the corrupt locals and they will fall hard.
Dixon, Ill. ex-comptroller Rita Crundwell sentenced to 20 years for ...
www.nydailynews.com/.../ex-bookkeeper-20-years-stealing-53-million-a...?
Feb 14, 2013 - A former city bookkeeper was sentenced to nearly 20 years in prison ... comptroller of Dixon, of stealing more than $53 million from public funds ...
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I can mention several local pols that are waging this holy war. We even cover them, but oops, you all can read it on CNN.
The caveat on this article is that progressives attack local media outlets, so yes, msnbc is your source, oops you mean they are stuck on Christie? Oh well.
RichGirl
(4,119 posts)If a snake feels threatened...it strikes out.
The Christian Right is crazier now than it has ever been because they know they are on their way out. Religion is on it's way out. Young people know it's crazy. When you have reality shows with Morman, Amish, etc kids leaving their sect...it's over.
That's religion...spirituality is broader, personal, expansive, unintrusive, etc...spirituality is live and let live.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Sa·tan
[seyt-n] Show IPA
noun
the chief evil spirit; the great adversary of humanity; the devil.
the devil, adversary of God, and tempter of mankind: sometimes identified with Lucifer (Luke 4:5--8)
[Old English, from Late Latin, from Greek, from Hebrew: plotter, from sātan to plot against]
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/satan
Initech
(100,028 posts)Because you know who has the influence? It's not us. It's the Christian fundamentalists. and I can guarantee that we won't like what they want for this country.