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Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:33 AM

Fellow shot at theater was texting his 3 year old daughter

Snip>

The argument was over Chad texting his daughter, deputies said.

Reeves, 71, a retired Tampa Police officer, was also accompanied by his wife.

Sheriff Chris Nocco told ABC Action News that Reeves left the theater in an effort to find an usher that could tell Chad to turn off his phone. Nocco added that when Reeves returned, the men exchanged words, popcorn went flying, and that is when Reeves pulled out a .380 pistol and opened fire.

"For a retired or off duty officer, who has that training and all that, it should have never escalated to that point," said Chad's friend Joseph Trapani.

"Chad doesn't carry weapons, doesn't hold weapons," he said.

According to witnesses, when Reeves pulled out the gun, Chad's wife lunged to protect him. She reportedly put her hand over his chest but the bullet ended up going through her hand.

Chad, according to witness Alex Cummings, took a few steps and blurted out, "I can't believe I've been shot."

Chad fell down and died seconds later.

"She's a wreck. I mean she just lost her husband, the father of her little girl over something that should have never happened," Trapani added.


Read more: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_pasco/friends-of-chad-oulson-who-was-shot-dead-at-a-pasco-movie-theater-are-speaking-out-tonight#ixzz2qLsMJt00











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Reply Fellow shot at theater was texting his 3 year old daughter (Original post)
Quixote1818 Jan 2014 OP
kelly1mm Jan 2014 #1
JI7 Jan 2014 #4
Quixote1818 Jan 2014 #6
firsttimer Jan 2014 #9
Neoma Jan 2014 #117
joeglow3 Jan 2014 #158
Trajan Jan 2014 #21
valerief Jan 2014 #29
kelly1mm Jan 2014 #33
Lasher Jan 2014 #82
Marr Jan 2014 #160
Hoyt Jan 2014 #89
pintobean Jan 2014 #106
Hoyt Jan 2014 #120
pintobean Jan 2014 #123
CreekDog Jan 2014 #187
pintobean Jan 2014 #190
AleksS Jan 2014 #126
Hoyt Jan 2014 #128
Aristus Jan 2014 #157
DragonBorn Jan 2014 #176
Aristus Jan 2014 #179
DragonBorn Jan 2014 #193
Ed Suspicious Jan 2014 #56
Lochloosa Jan 2014 #100
yeoman6987 Jan 2014 #102
Skidmore Jan 2014 #112
tblue37 Jan 2014 #149
Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #103
gollygee Jan 2014 #111
TBF Jan 2014 #172
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JI7 Jan 2014 #2
riversedge Jan 2014 #3
DallasNE Jan 2014 #16
firsttimer Jan 2014 #20
Quixote1818 Jan 2014 #45
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Ed Suspicious Jan 2014 #48
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Live and Learn Jan 2014 #85
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geek tragedy Jan 2014 #147
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Quixote1818 Jan 2014 #27
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kcr Jan 2014 #109
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Pale Blue Dot Jan 2014 #119
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MineralMan Jan 2014 #130
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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:51 AM

1. 3 year olds text? Really? I must be getting old .... nt

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:53 AM

4. little kids love playing with phones even if they don't completely understand it

parents probably do things like send images which kids are taught means that it came from their parent.

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:57 AM

6. Thats what police reported. He could have been texting the daycare she was at

and they were relaying the message to her? Who knows.

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:05 AM

9. I don't think any 3 year old carries a cell

 



Maybe he was texting the babysitter .

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:32 AM

117. Unless it was in an otterbox.

You'd be surprised...I had three year old twins who loved my phone. If it was in a protective case I wouldn't have cared if they played around with it...

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:13 PM

158. My 4 year old has an Ipod Touch

 

After we got Iphones and Ipads, we really didn't care what happened to the 3-4 year old Ipod. We gave it to my 4 year old.

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:27 AM

21. A Gungeonite speaks ...

 

And nothing of value is spoken ...

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Response to Trajan (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:37 AM

29. +1000

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Response to Trajan (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:44 AM

33. A gungeonite? Really? 2 posts (out of 158 in last 90 days) in the 'gungeon' and

I am a gungeonite? Here is my profile page snippet:

Account status: Active
Member since: Sun Aug 9, 2009, 05:29 PM
Number of posts, all time: 2,471
Number of posts, last 90 days: 158
Favorite forum: General Discussion, 125 posts in the last 90 days (79% of total posts)
Favorite group: Gun Control & RKBA, 2 posts in the last 90 days (1% of total posts)
Last post: Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:51 AM

My comment was based on not understanding why a 3 year old would be texting. Other posters gave their views but you felt the need to call me names based on 2 posts in a group out of 158 posts in the past 90 days?

I guess 3 year olds can join DU as well ......

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:33 AM

82. You made a good point.

Ignore the pileon.

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Response to Lasher (Reply #82)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:24 PM

160. Really?

 

What was that good point? To me it seemed like a flippant, irrelevant observation designed to express a lack of concern with the actual topic.

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:04 AM

89. Even if victim was listening to loud music, he didn't deserve a shot center mass.

 

I agree with poster above, what difference does it make what he was doing on phone? He didn't deserve a bullet from a freakin gun toter.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #89)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:53 AM

106. No one said that the man deserved to be shot.

 

Someone commented on a curious detail that was in the subject line of the OP. For that, he gets a bunch of shit for posting twice in one of DU's groups. I don't see how that's related to anything.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #106)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:52 AM

120. It's typical gungeonesque obfuscation, like the nomenclature game - clip vs. Magazine.

 

Why even make the comment but to deflect attention from the fact another murdering gun toter killed an innocent man for no reason.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #120)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:00 AM

123. That made me laugh

 

Was your attention deflected? Do you think anyone's was?

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Response to pintobean (Reply #123)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:22 PM

187. yes. purposeful diversion of the thread over nonsense

and if it didn't happen to all gun threads by gungeoners and those of the same mindset, against common sense progressive support of gun control --it wouldn't be so infuriating.

and the thing is, some here, among that cohort, don't want gun control discussed here, because they are outnumbered by supporters of gun control.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #187)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:35 PM

190. Okay, one attention deflected.

 

I'm not surprised.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #120)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:02 AM

126. Don't you mean:

Don't you mean:

"A responsible gun owner heroically stood his ground against a villainous villain of villainy?"



(I just translated it into gungeon-ese.)

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Response to AleksS (Reply #126)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:08 AM

128. That's it.

 

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #128)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:10 PM

157. Not entirely it. He forgot:

FREEDOM!

LIBERTY!

RIGHTS!

SECOND AMENDMENT!

PROTECTION!


I'm sure there's more, but you get the idea...

This country is starting to make Idiocracy look like Utopia...

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Response to Aristus (Reply #157)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:48 PM

176. I'm glad you find this so humorous

I always find it hilarious when fathers of small children are killed.

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Response to DragonBorn (Reply #176)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:56 PM

179. I don't.

That was cynicism. The kind brought on by the relentless idiocy of people who think that their right to bear arms somehow supercedes the right of others to not get shot for no reason at all.

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Response to Aristus (Reply #179)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:41 PM

193. Yea me either if it wasn't obvious.

The kind brought on by the relentless idiocy of people who think that their right to bear arms somehow supercedes the right of others to not get shot for no reason at all.


This guy was a former police officer, not your typical gun owner. I've seen quite a few people already that miss that point entirely or willfully ignore it as if it has no bearing on this case. So your cries of 2nd Amendment! and Rights! seemed to be quite crass and inaccurate as typically police officers are not decrying laws related to the 2nd Amendment because most of them don't apply to police officers.

Police officers are exempt from a host of gun laws. They are automatically granted concealed carry permits upon retiring. Civilians who want to conceal carry can face either impossible hurdles to obtain a CCW to shall issue states that require the individual to complete a class regarding the law pertaining to carry in their area and a competence test.

How much do you want to bet this guy didn't have to go to that class because he was a former officer? Ignoring the fact this guy was a police officer while simultaneously trying to denigrate guns rights is disingenuous and dishonest.

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Response to Trajan (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:29 AM

56. +1

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:11 AM

100. My three year old Grandson fixes his Grandmother's phone for her all the time.

Of course he's the one that changes her screen in the first place.

And he does know what he is doing.

It frustrates her to no end.

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:21 AM

102. I don't understand or believe it

 

I can't see a 3 year old having a phone that can text. Maybe it was the babysitter and he/she was reading it to the little girl, but of course the title makes it even more dramatic.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #102)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:12 AM

112. Who knows? My youngest grandson was

reading at fourth grade level when he was three. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the child isn't able to read or to manipulate an electronic device.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #102)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:19 AM

149. I could read at 3--and my daughter also was reading by 3. I was slow to speak, so

everyone thought I was developmentally disabled (a nastier word was used--I remember hearing it and wondering what it meant).

My first words were "Mommie, can I read you a story?" The story I read was from an edition of Grimm's fairytales that had small print and virtually no pictures, except for small black and white images at the top of each new story.

I only got to read a few sentences from the story before I was interrupted with questions, but I certainly could have read a text if such things had existed back then.

I didn't realize my daughter was also reading at three--until we were at a store and she asked me to explain something she had just read on a sign in the store.

Kids develop different skills at different ages, and there is often a genetic predisposition involved when certain skills are mastered precociously.

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:33 AM

103. I would presume perhaps he was texting her babysitter....

who might read the text to her.

Horrible story.

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:09 AM

111. Someone would probably read the text to her

but yes they love that.

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:21 PM

172. I guess you are -

My kids are under 12. Phones, Kindles, DSi, Nintendo ... They are more adept on the computer than most adults. I encourage them because they are both on track to work in technology or even own their own technology companies someday. Frankly I'd prefer that - I really don't want to see them working at Walmart for $3/hr.

Now, when the "pragmatic" wing of the dem party comes out and declares that they need charter schools and standardized testing so that our kids understand technology it is all fine and dandy ... but now guns are involved so all the gunbots will be going on about limiting texting.

This is getting so fucking old.

When are we going to declare the NRA a terrorist organization? They are responsible for more killing than anything else I've seen.

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 06:55 PM

205. I heard on the news

that he was actually texting his daughter's pre-school to check on her. I personally assumed that they went to the matinee in the afternoon and they wanted to let the school know in case it overlapped with her normal pick up time.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:51 AM

2. well he was just a law abiding gun nut piece of shit

so tired of these fuckers. one has to be fucked up to in the first place to got here with a gun.

the fucker wanted to kill someone.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:52 AM

3. Settling an argument with a gun is

the answer nowadays. Horrible.

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Response to riversedge (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:22 AM

16. This Is Florida, Once Again

Once the popcorn went flying the outcome was cast in stone. The retired cop will never be tried due to stand your ground. It is a license to kill and people are taking full advantage of that fact.

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:26 AM

20. For that to happen he grabbed the 71 year old or shoved him in anger

 

because he reported him to the manager or so he thought.

He is the one who got out of his seat and confronted the 71 year old man in a fit of anger.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:08 AM

45. What on earth ar you talking about?




Snip> Two seats away Charles Cummings and his son watched the squabbling.

When Reeves returned, he was without a manager.

"He came back very irritated," Cummings said.

The man who had been texting, Chad Oulson, got up and turned to Reeves to ask him if he had gone to tell on him for his texting. Oulson reportedly said, in effect: I was just sending a message to my young daughter.

Voices were raised. Popcorn was thrown. And then came something unimaginable -- except maybe in a movie. A gun shot.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/13/justice/florida-movie-theater-shooting/

Wow, he really sounded threatening and there was NO shove. Please don't lie.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:12 AM

46. So now you believe everything in this article but not the one you posted in your OP

 

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:19 AM

48. The shove would mean nothing. In what world is it ok to respond to a shove with a bullet to the

chest? Have you people lost your ever-loving minds? How would a shove explain or justify or even modify what happened?

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #48)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:41 AM

62. We will see what a jury decides or are you against that ? I can't tell anymore in this thread

 

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #62)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:49 AM

63. I've already decided. You better hope I'm not on your jury when you respond with a bullet to the

chest to over whatever. There is an there is a moral absolute that I abide by. People should not shoot other people. That's it. The end. If you are charged with the crime of killing another human being with your gun, I'm voting to send you up the river.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #63)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:51 AM

65. Facts and the law be damned , I like your style kid

 

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #65)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:53 AM

85. Explain your law to the kid who's father is dead

because he went to the movies and annoyed someone that we allowed to carry a gun. Face it, it is highly unlikely that the guy killed was in anyway likely to kill the asshat confronting him.

In my view, the asshat is a victim too, of people like you that think he should have the "right" to carry a gun anywhere, anytime without frequent mental and psychological evaluations.

In fact, if we did them correctly and frequently enough, many police officers wouldn't have guns either and Kelly Thomas would be alive too.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #65)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:05 AM

90. I don't like yours

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #65)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:17 PM

171. Kind of like how you called a guy who used his hands in self-defense of his

 

own damn home a murderer, but here you're making excuses for a guy who shot someone in a theater because he was threatened with popcorn.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #65)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:01 PM

207. Says the now banned gun humping troll...

 

Why do you fuckwads come back? We are just going to verbally beat you down more and cause you to feel more self loathing and a greater state of self-worthlessness...is that what you crave as a cowardly gun humping troll? You guys crave failure so badly that you want...no...NEED an admin to show you your ass and the door?

You will be back, all you small brained assholes always come back...like moths to a flame. And you will always get hammered down by the truth and the admins.





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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #48)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:27 AM

115. When you're 71, you might be fearful of a much younger man. Not excusing the shooting.

 

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #115)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:55 AM

121. If you are fearful of younger men, carrying a gun is not a good idea.

 

There are a lot of younger men when you are a callous, old 71 year old with a gun.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:52 AM

66. You said Chad Oulson shoved Reeves but provided no link


I am just wanting to find out where you got your information.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:12 AM

147. Firsttimer is a gun troll. Compare his response to someone using a gun (shooter not to blame)

 

to his reaction to a story about a guy using his bare hands to defend his family against three thugs breaking into his home:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024290208#post2

The MMA fighter should be charged with murder

There is nothing you own worth killing another human being over.

He should have just ran out the back door

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #147)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:14 PM

169. Ah, so, home invasion = duty to retreat

 

Someone gets pissed because you told them to stop texting in a movie = HOLD THE LINE

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #169)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:16 PM

170. No, it's "use a gun to kill someone=god bless america" and "kill someone while failing

 

to use a gun=murder"

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:13 AM

131. What kind of authoritarian fuck dreams up excuses for murderers?

 

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:37 PM

201. Is That Right?

That is not what any news accounts I have seen are saying. Indeed, we don't even know who's popcorn it was that went flying. The witness two seats over described the retired cop as the one who was angry and escalated this then finally shot the younger man dead. I think we can be sure that the old man will attempted to invoke stand your ground and when the popcorn went flying there is a good chance that he will be successful.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:54 AM

5. the shooter will hope for casey anthony/zimmerman type jury

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Response to JI7 (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:00 AM

7. They even considered if it was a 'stand your ground' case

If the dead fellow had been black I bet you a million bucks they would have considered 'stand your ground' a lot longer.

Snip>

Nocco said his detectives considered if this could be a 'stand your ground' case but decided the criteria did not apply.

Read more: http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/24435641/2014/01/13/shots-fired-at-wesley-chapel-movie-theater#ixzz2qLzUTnKe
Follow us: @myfoxtampabay on Twitter | FOX13TampaBay on Facebook

But you can bet your ass his lawyers are going to say he feared for his life when the popcorn went flying.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:19 AM

14. It could be ruled self defense in a court of law

 

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:28 AM

22. It depends on if the victim made a threatening move

 

The article really doesn't go into a whole lot of detail of what happened when Reeves came back to the theater other than an argument began. Oulson is a big guy. If he made a move to attack the older man and that guy felt threatened of life or limb, the law may very well consider it self-defense.

There were likely witnesses there. Ultimately it will be decided by a jury.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:36 AM

28. I agree , these articles are all over the place

 

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:37 PM

191. Unless Chad pulled a gun first there is NO JUSTIFICATION AT ALL

AT-FUCKING-ALL! Chad wasn't gonna beat an old fart to death with both of the wives there, I mean Jeezum Crispies! The argument should never have happened! There are too many scared people in this country and it seems a lot of them have the "right" to carry deadly weapons! FUCKING COWARDS. MOTHER FUCKING COWARDS! I hope this old piece of SHIT spends the rest of his sad miserable life in jail surrounded by ALL of his worst nightmares (and by that I mean big blacks and latinos without his precious gun to protect him, because I guarantee this guy's a racist, too.)

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:36 AM

27. Self defense is the right to use reasonable force not blowing someone away

for standing and raising his voice.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:42 AM

30. If that's how it happened then I agree

 

A courtroom is a lot different when people begin to be cross examined.

Lies come out , people say I guess it could have happened like that , well no I really didn't see that....etc

You can't base your decision on a couple of news articles unless you have in your mind found him guilty already.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:49 AM

35. We know one man had a gun and one didn't

The gun should have been used as a last resort. Even if the fellow had lunged at him (and there is zero witnesses saying he did) there were dozens of people around that could have pulled him off. The fact that you are even considering that it was okay for him to fire a kill shot under these circumstances is absolute sick.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:25 AM

55. It's insanity that they consider it...

then the low post-count gungeoners discuss it and parse the situation for what might have been the excuse to blow the unarmed chap away. I cannot believe this shit is allowed to go on on this board. These gun people seem comfortable with the idea that if a person makes a "threatening" move, the appropriate response is a bullet to the chest. I'm flabbergasted by the whole thing. Every shooting its a similar parsing of the situation. It makes me sick to my stomach thinking about it.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #55)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:10 AM

71. Not all threats are created equal.

THIS case, per the witnesses, looks like a fairly cut and dried unjustifiable application of lethal force in self defense.

I turn my back on that dude. Not my fellow. Not me, not people I have trained. Lethal force is the LAST resort, because, well, look at this case. A life was lost, and it didn't need to be, to protect another life. Not at all. And you can't recall that bullet once you pull the trigger. It's a done deal. Can't go back.

No, I support self defense, through a variety of means, but this incident doesn't sound like self defense to me.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #71)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:19 AM

74. Nicely said

I actually carry a gun in my truck because I travel a lot and worry about breaking down out in the middle of nowhere. I understand there are times when using a gun for self defense is most certainly warranted but not in this case. They had to show that Zimmerman's head was being pounded into the ground for self defense to be considered. In this instance bullets flew before anyone was even touched.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #74)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:24 AM

76. The cynic in me says...

That his former vocation is going to be a factor.
I'm not going to predict the outcome of the trial, but I agree, the Z case had to at least suggest a level of threat that simply isn't present in the info we have here, from the witnesses, in the media.

This was just a ... terrible damn deal. Nobody won. Everyone lost. Some lost more than others.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #76)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:00 AM

108. A better benchmark might be Trevor Dooley

Based on that case it is not justified to shot if someone grabs you by the throat and takes you down. Of course Dooley's victim was also white.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:15 AM

148. derp derpity derp derp derp

 

firsttimer (324 posts)
2. The MMA fighter should be charged with murder

There is nothing you own worth killing another human being over.

He should have just ran out the back door

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:50 PM

210. The legal standard here is based on what a reasonable person believes or would believe

I am corporate attorney and not licensed in Florida but I really doubt that the legal standard for self defense was met in this case. This old man may have felt threatened but the legal standard that the jury will have to judge him by is whether a reasonable person in the same circumstance would feel threatened. I really doubt that a self defense charge would be successful when this case goes to the jury.

BTW, the fact that the judge denied bail for this old man says a great deal as to the initial review of the facts. If it was clear from a legal standpoint that the old man had a self defense case, then there would have been bail ordered by the judge. The fact that the judge decided to deny bail at this stage is meaningful.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:35 AM

26. Well... When the police investigate the police, they do look a little harder for loopholes.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:02 AM

8. omg. I can hardly stand it.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:08 AM

10. .380 through her hand then enough penetration through the chest to kill a man on the spot

 

That doesn't even sound right.

I think the news person who wrote this didn't get the facts correct.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:33 AM

59. Good point, said no-one.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:50 AM

64. Why not?

.380 6.0 g (90 gr) JHP 304 m/s 200 ft·lbf (270 J)
9mm 7.50 g (116 gr) JHP 377 m/s 393 ft·lbf (533 J)

Not quite as powerful as a 9mm Parabellum as you can see, but it'll still put a very much lethal hole in someone, in the right place. The additional meat of a person's hand is irrelevant and offers no protection whatever.

These are technical details that distract from the issue.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #64)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:08 AM

70. it's not the meat , the hand is nothing but bone so if he was using hollow points

 

which I would think he would be .
I'm not a gun guy but from what I read the .380 will penetrate maybe 9 inches of gell ?
Going throughthe bone of a hand it will already start to tumble and deform


I'm not saying the .380 wouldn't kill a person but this shot where he dropped in a couple of seconds is not the norm
for this round.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #70)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:16 AM

72. This is not 'caliber wars'. 380 is approx equivalent of a .38 special.

And those were carried by the police as service weapons for decades. There are also ammo variants like +P and the like. Who knows what the hell he used, other than him, and the police report/ballistics/autopsy?

It can certainly kill a person if hit in the chest, and you don't know where it went through his wife's hand. Could have gone through the soft tissue webbing by the thumb for all you know. All we know is that it was reported that her hand was penetrated by the round. That's all. That could mean a variety of things.

But I do know this; the thickest, burliest bone in a person's hand isn't going to reduce it to a non-lethal kinetic projectile. Not even close.

Again, this is a waste of technical detail/distraction. Contributes nothing to the issue.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #70)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:01 AM

142. The man was shot from point blank range.

 

Tumbling and deforming at this range does not slow the projectile down much, just increases the damage.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:14 AM

91. Completely possible.

There is still plenty of penetration, even through the bones of a hand. All it takes inside the chest is a hit to a major artery or the heart and the disruption of blood flow to the brain will cause rapid unconsciousness followed by death. And the chest is filled with large major arteries.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:37 AM

104. 2nd rule of gun safety...

Never point a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.

If you think that a firearm can't kill the person it's pointed at because of it's small caliber, take a look some time at the number of people killed by .22 lr bullets.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:57 AM

107. Hey! "Magic bullets" exist!

Just ask the Warren Commission...

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:10 AM

129. You are trying too hard.

 

You comments in this thread tipped your hand.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #129)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:23 AM

136. It's insane

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Response to morningfog (Reply #129)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:38 AM

137. That hand was tipped

 

about a month ago.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:48 AM

139. I thought you were fourthtimer?

 

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #139)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:48 PM

177. Not the most subtle of user names.

 

But Never_Registered_on_DU_Before_I_Swear was a little too obvious.

Though EarlG has taken care of the problem.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:04 AM

145. lolwut?

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:48 AM

153. Yeah, it's not like he was some MMA fighter who was just supposed to run away. (nt)

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:13 PM

197. gunner world.

 

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 15, 2014, 02:42 AM

215. OK so what

The guy is dead and the result is the same.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:11 AM

11. There you anti-gun nuts go again...blaming the shooter!

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Response to lob1 (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:17 AM

13. I think everything needs to come out before anyone can make a rational argument for or against

 

It said pop corn went flying , did he push and grab the 71 year old?

From the photo that's a pretty big guy......and it also sounds from the other article he was the one who
walked over to the 71 year old very angry asking him did you report me to the manager.


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Response to firsttimer (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:26 AM

19. No, he didn't push or grab the 71 year old


Read what witnesses reported:

Snip> "It ended almost as quickly as it started," Tobin said.

Snip>Charles Cummings was at the theater for his birthday with his adult son and told a group of reporters that the show was still in previews when the two couples started arguing.

Cummings said the man in the back row got up and left the auditorium, presumably to get a manager. But he came back after a few minutes, without a manager and appearing upset. Moments later, the argument between the two men resumed, and the man in the front row stood up. Cummings said the men started raising their voices.

"Somebody throws popcorn. I'm not sure who threw the popcorn," Cummings said. "And then bang, he was shot."

A man sitting next to the shooter grabbed the gun out of his hand, and the suspect did not attempt to get away, Cummings said.

"I can't believe people would bring a pistol, a gun, to a movie," Cummings said. "I can't believe they would argue and fight and shoot one another over popcorn. Over a cellphone."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/13/tampa-bay-movie-theater-shooting_n_4590721.html

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:28 AM

23. Lets see if that's what's told in a courtroom

 

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:35 AM

25. Stand Your Ground Of Course

 

that's what all Florida gun nuts scream now isn't it?

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:49 AM

34. Just to give you a different article by CNN

 

In yours it says someone grabbed the gun out of his hand.

In this article it says..



Oulson staggered toward the Cummings and fell on them, Charles Cummings said.

The shooter sat down and put the gun in his lap.

It happened that an off-duty deputy sheriff from Sumter County was among the 25 people theater at the Grove 16 complex. He rushed to the scene to make sure no more shots were fired and the shooter would stay put.


That's why I said news articles are not very accurate with details that decide a case like this.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:55 AM

38. All I know is the witnesses, one who is a veteran


saw no reason for a gun to be used. Period.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:57 AM

41. Okay , then your minds made up

 

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #41)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:13 AM

47. No, your mind is made up

You really want the gunman to get off? Really? You pointed to one discrepancy between several articles with the shooter placing the gun on his lap instead of it getting wrestled away from him. So what? Everything else described exactly the same in all the articles. Let me ask you, would you have fired if someone threw popcorn?

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #47)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:19 AM

50. No yours is , you already said ....period , before a trial , before all the facts in a courtroom

 

The only scary person I see in this thread is you......................

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #50)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:22 AM

51. Are you going to shoot me for being scary?

Just curious?

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #51)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:40 AM

61. Depends on if you shove him or not. Or make a mess of your popcorn.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #50)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:39 AM

60. Do you guys go to school for this? Do they pass out flyers on how to maintain your robotic

disassociation while you work to convince the public A. there are some times when killing somebody is justified B. There is a good chance this was one of them. & C. There is most likely something wrong with the reporting therefore no opinion should be formed at this time.

Get a new script.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #60)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:01 AM

68. Personally, I'm not going to.

Not this time. I gave Z a 'wait and see, innocent until proven guilty' pass, and turns out, the general gut check consensus was dead on the money after all. Even though the jury didn't find that way.

In this case, yeah, he might technically get off due to his 'appreciation of an imminent threat' blah blah, but as a gun owner, and carry advocate, that shit clearly spiraled out of control, and beyond all reason. There's no way this situation should have ended with a gunshot, no way, no how.

This was, per the witnesses, a pretty clearly wrong, way way way fucking wrong application of force in self defense. That's not what the law is for.

But the odds of getting a conviction out of this... Man. I feel so bad for the mother and the child. Look what they lost. To a retired cop. I am skeptical they will get anything even resembling justice out of this.


Terrible.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #60)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:29 PM

161. Gun fanciers do study to know when they can blast away and what to tell police afterwards.

 

Just a few weeks before Zimmerman murdered Martin, the Gungeoneers were in a discussion thread of how to react and what to tell police if you shoot someone. Basically, it was how to keep things so muddy that an attorney can get you off. Our gun fanciers had a lot of great ideas of how to get off if you are into preparing to shoot some unarmed teen.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:42 AM

32. Wait! Popcorn went flying? There was shoving? An angry question was asked? Well, never mind, then.

Are you seriously suggesting that blowing the guy away might have been justifiable? What next? "Stand Your Ground?"

Amazing.

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Response to Fridays Child (Reply #32)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:55 AM

39. I'm suggesting that a courtroom and jury will decide

 

not a couple of news articles which I have already shown in this thread are different from one to the next

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:19 AM

49. You showed one insignificant difference

Whether the gun was wrestled out of his hand or not. That is after the fact and according to the Sheriff in the video it was wrestled out of his hand. Maybe he put it on his lap but someone also lunged at the shooter to subdue him which only makes sense since he just fucking killed someone for nothing. Everything the witnesses say suggests it was a ridiculous shooting over an argument over a cell phone and popcorn flying.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #49)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:23 AM

52. Let's hope you are never on a jury because you make your mind up from a couple of news clips

 

As you already said in this thread

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #52)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:32 AM

57. Yep, when all the evidence points in one direction and ZERO points the other way


Yep, I am guilty of making up my mind on what every witness has said.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #52)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:16 AM

113. Ducks

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck not to mention it looks like a duck, then it is probably safe to assume its a duck.

Let's see angry old white man with a gun, dead young man and popcorn on the floor. All things point to angry old man shooting young guy. The reason just makes it even worse. What kind of human being shoots a person for texting in a theater? Oh wait he was taller then the old fart with the gun so old guy was scared or felt threatened so he shots him.

Stand your ground is a joke and needs to be expunged from this country's laws. There is no reason to take a gun to a movie theater unless you are a crazy person that is intent on killing someone.

If the young mans texting was causing the old guy such great bodily harm he really should have just left went to the management and gotten his money back. He surly did not have to kill the texter.

I don't care if the young man shoved the old fart, or that he (the old fart) was smaller the young guy. The old guy is NOT the victim, never was. The victim is dead. And why is he dead? Oh yeah this old guy shot him, that's why. Pretty clear cut.

Of course the old dude might have money and could hire Zimmerman's lawyer and argue his client is old suffers from post trauma from years service on the force, or maybe dementia alzheimer's ect... But that would then lead to the idea of maybe with these mental defects why was the old guy even allowed to own a gun?



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Response to firsttimer (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 06:30 AM

86. Nice try (not really), but what you're actually "suggesting" is that...

... shoving, angry questions, and knocked over popcorn are potentially exculpatory in this instance. Maybe you haven't noticed but, around here, not everyone is willing to sit quietly while you piss on their legs and tell them it's raining.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:15 AM

92. If you remember

Zimmerman never would've had a day in court if not for national outcry. He was treated and released. So will the retired cop face prosecution?

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Response to TexasProgresive (Reply #92)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:58 AM

122. Zimmerman wasn't even arrested until the public outcry

At least this guy was arrested right away.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:06 AM

44. I just see the absurdity of our laws allowing -- no, encouraging -- people essentially to settle

disputes with guns. Even if the 71-year-old man was pushed, it doesn't rise to the need for a gun, but if the law can protect Zimmerman, it will also protect unstable monsters who like to throw their weight around with a gun as well. And each of the jurors may share your way of thinking. Nothing surprises me anymore.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:17 AM

132. Then log out, wait, and quit blaming the victim of another murderous

 

...piece of shit. Why do you feel compelled to defend a murderer?

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:17 AM

12. I don't get it. I just don't get it.

How can any sense be made of the daily acts of cruelty we perpetrate on one another in this country? Is this level of gun violence happening in other countries? What is it that the rest of the world knows that we just don't "get?"

Has unspeakable gun violence become so routine here that we now simply "archive" every tragedy and move on, each of us just a little more numb than we were the day before?

If Newtown didn't change us, what will?

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:20 AM

15. Makes you fear ever looking at someone the wrong way...

 

This Friday, some friends and me walked to the corner store around 1:30 in the morning to get some energy drinks for our Jagerbombs. We walked because we were in no condition to drive. Nothing major. Just having a good time. Well, out of nowhere, a guy comes up and starts attacking us. It escalated quickly before he finally backed off and went home. Even now, I don't know what we did. We were just walking by his house and he randomly asks us what we said to him and then demanded we get out of his neighborhood.

It makes me think, "what if he had a gun?"

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:23 AM

17. Huh? Texting is silent, isn't it? Why wasn't the shooter watching the show, not a handheld device?

Last edited Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

And on the other side, how did the father expect a three year old to be able to read a text message? Would he not have to be talking to her?

Or was the phone beeping and that was the problem? Perhaps the paper didn't get all the details.

Even then, it's not worth getting a fight in the first place. The link says the shooter went out of the theatre to find the usher to complain but then went back to the scene and got into a fight. Why not sit somewhere else?

Something is not right here, other than the obvious.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:42 AM

31. Sad

He was probably texting the daycare (since that is where they left their daughter). My son is 3.5 and he can handle working an ipad and such. If I sent him a picture, he would be able to see it, but I doubt that was the case here.

I imagine that because it was stated that this happened during the previews, he was checking on his kiddo and the other guy had a beef with him over it. I've done this, and never felt I needed to worry about someone getting angry since it was just the previews and the whole "put your phone away" bit hadn't happened at that time.

Am I now at risk for getting shot? I mean I live in Texas after all. CCL is a common thing here.

I think that girl deserved to have her father for the rest of her life, but apparently an arguement over a movie was more important. So important that someone had to die. I wonder what the wife of the shooter has to say about it all.

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Response to sarin (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:09 PM

199. My age is showing. We didn't have these when my kid was 3. Might have done the same thing, but with

no noise involved, myself.

That's why I'm questioning the logic or guessing the shooter had something else wrong with him, to go off while looking at someone doing a text.

And yes, the family will be scarred, the little girl will be traumatized like the mom trying to save her husband from a maniac, and the whole thing to me is another sign that people have no boundaries or respect for others anymore.

How in the world will the little girl be able to reconcile that her dad will not be coming home, that her mom was shot trying to protect him and that the man who did this was able to do such a thing? How will she organize her life to reconcile this tearing up their family, as she comes into adulthood?

Trying to figure out why the shooter went off is all I'm doing here. If he was so outraged, he should have moved to another seat. It's illogical.

Florida has SYG and the shooter reacted to 'popcorn flying,' which shows words were exchanged, and out of the blue he thought he had the right the kill someone over a slight or words. This wasn't just some wet behind the ears shooter. He was trained an LEO. I wonder if his wife tried to stop him?

There are no standards of behavior in public venues all will obey now, which is why I limit my time where there may be conflicts. I'm sure the victim and wife didn't expect their diversion to endanger their lives.

I may be wrong, but I don't think Texans are so likely do such things as these people were, but I can understand your concern. The gun culture is making the unarmed and peaceloving citizenry fear to go out in public and voice their opinion, or do regular activities. Like Obama said about the victims of gun crime that seem so random, 'They were 'not in the wrong place at the wrong time.' They were in the 'right place' living their lives, going to school, walking down the street or attending a movie.' Words to that effect, not a direct quote.

The purpose of gun culture is to militarize the public. When people freak over police weaponry, I can't forget this is the public they are facing, more and more. I see the NRA and other groups' insistence on guns as the only solution, as leading us into third world life, with the strong man with gun on every corner, able to intimidate and extort the public who are trying to work and get about their lives.

Life will be more confined and less free than it was without the guns for most people.

I avoid most public venues, though I'd had to deal with outliers in places where it was unavoidable, like getting gasoline or at the post office, where a loud mouth trolls the people there with their political opinion that has nothing to do with what people are there for. It's like worst of the internet, live.

If you go to a civic meeting, they attempt to disrupt and waste other people's private time they gave up to participate. This is social disintegration and unrestrained hubris in action.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:55 AM

67. Screen comes on.

It's very bright in a dark theater. That's why theater owners make such a big deal about NOT doing it. It's very distracting to other viewers, and you WILL notice it. Even if the screen auto-dims for 'night mode' or whatever your brand of cell phone calls it, it's still VERY bright in the theater.

Closest theater to my house states, flat out, near the opening previews, that if they catch you doing it, they will throw you out.


It certainly doesn't excuse what this shit escalated to, but I can see an argument arising out of it. It's extremely rude. I put my phone on silent, and leave it on, so I can be contacted if something goes wrong with the babysitter, but if the phone vibrates, I go the fuck out in the hallway to check it. Common courtesy to other people.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #17)


Response to Name removed (Reply #178)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:59 PM

182. FFS.

Get a better hobby.

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Response to cyberswede (Reply #182)


Response to cyberswede (Reply #182)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:11 PM

200. Ah, what did I miss? How fortunate for me that I didn't see anything. Thanks, MIRT.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:25 AM

18. I read the article. I couldn't even watch the video- my heart has to back away from it.

Another Gun Achiever gets his Golden Star!

This guy should never leave prison 'till he's dead, and his handcuffed body is taken out from the prison morgue.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:30 AM

24. RIP Chad Oulson..

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:51 AM

36. how do we know he really went to get an usher?

he may have left to get his gun.

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Response to RedRocco (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:56 AM

40. Interesting observation. That would be 1st degree. nt

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #40)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:06 AM

43. Maybe you should tell them to write that in one of the news articles

 

Then it would be fact to you.....period....

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #43)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:24 AM

54. It's doubtful but most certainly worth checking into. nt

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #43)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:03 AM

69. Give it a rest.

What the hell is your deal, anyway.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #69)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:18 AM

73. My deal is I stood inthe back for a lot of trials and saw (almost 4 years )

 

testimony fall apart from eyewitnesses.

I ran court runs for the DOC.

Some people are convicting this guy from a couple of articles.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #73)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:20 AM

75. Nobody here has the power to 'convict' him of anything.

Shit, look at Zimmerman. He's a free man.

Yes, innocent until proven guilty, but people forming opinions doesn't change innocence/guilt.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #75)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:27 AM

78. Well you wouldn't want some these people on your jury in justifiable shoot

 

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #78)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:29 AM

79. I highly doubt I would be in a justifiable shooting under such questionable circumstances.

If that sort of shit ever goes down, there will be no question of my intent or justifiability, by any reasonable person. None at all.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #79)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:32 AM

81. people have prejudices and sometimes it manifests it self in a jury booth

 

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #81)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:38 AM

84. The price of admission to living in a free society.

I can live with that risk.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #81)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:17 AM

93. Or in decisions to carry a gun and train to shoot people.

 

Gun fanciers' defense of each other in cases like this is laughable. I think they all are afraid they might be the next Zimmerman or this old bully with a gun and chip on his shoulder.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #81)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:15 PM

213. Or on a message board...Bye Bye, firsttimer!

And thank you, EarlG!


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=310529&sub=trans

firsttimer's Profile

Transparency Status

Posting Privileges Revoked

Jan 14, 2014 Gun nut troll. EarlG (Administrator)

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #75)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:34 AM

96. I have to admit that, when it comes to shootings,

I have reached the point where I actually think the shooter is guilty until proven innocent. There have been way too many unjustified shootings. We live in a gun culture society where it seems like if Person A even looks at a person, that person can shoot Person A because he/she fears for his/her life. Rational thought seems to have left the building. It is that lack of rational, common sense thinking that gives me a problem when I hear about shooting stories on the news.

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Response to avebury (Reply #96)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:01 AM

143. I'm with you. I do not...

...even honk at idiots who do stupid and dangerous stuff in traffic because I have no idea which a$$h*le may have a gun on the seat beside, him.

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #73)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:02 AM

109. It seems like you would know the difference between a courtroom and a message board then n/t

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Response to firsttimer (Reply #73)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:23 PM

159. right up there with having seen every episode of Law & Order.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:55 AM

37. Guns first need to be controlled & second they must be banned from public places

I don't care how threatened the 71 year old was. He was in a theater full of people who would intervene if they thought he was going to be hurt.

This is disgusting and another reason NOT to visit or live in Florida.

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Response to emsimon33 (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:43 AM

97. Maybe, maybe not.

Given that we live in a gun culture society, you never know who is carrying and how rational that person is. I for one do not automatically assume that gun ownership and rational behavior go hand in hand. While there are a lot of responsible gun owners, you can never assume that the one you meet up with is one of them.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:02 AM

42. It is so important to be texting, no matter where you are, right?

 

In a movie theater. Of course the lighted up phone thing isn't at all an inconvenience to other movie goers, is it? And of course whatever you must text is so incredibly important that it can't wait.

Makes you wonder how the species survived back in the days before things like texting, doesn't it?

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #42)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:29 AM

80. I think must of us would agree that texting,

talking on the phone, picking your nose, etc. can be annoying. The point is, and please let me be clear, YOU DON"T KILL SOMEONE because they are annoying you. OKAY?

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #80)


Response to SheilaT (Reply #42)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:15 AM

101. Thanks for saying that

Maybe a few texters will think twice about succumbing to their addiction in places where it shouldn't happen.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #101)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:50 AM

119. Yeah, otherwise we can shoot them, right? nt

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Response to Pale Blue Dot (Reply #119)

Wed Jan 15, 2014, 10:50 PM

218. Almost short enough to be a bumper sticker, isn't it?

"You keep your little flashlight that shines in my eyes in it's holster, and I'll keep my gun in mine"

Nothing I said is going to change what happened, and I now realize that nothing that happens to a texter is going to change their attitude toward their addiction, the nine or ten people a day (so far) being killed by texting and driving seems to have no effect on their behavior.

We just have to ban texting at the source, and that's at the cell phone companies. It might take President Hillary Clinton's daughter and unborn first grandchild killed in an accident caused by an obliviot to get such a law passed, but I hope it comes way before that time.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #42)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:11 AM

130. I see that all the time in movie theaters,

especially during the previews. I find it annoying. I do not, and would not, get into a confrontation over such a minor annoyance, much less pull a firearm and shoot someone for doing it.

Perspective is important. It seems as though you don't have a clear perspective on this.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #130)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:17 PM

184. Same here.

I have seen this on numerous occasions and my harshest reaction is to shake my head and focus on the movie. Rude and inconsiderate as it is, it is no reason to shoot people.

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Response to old guy (Reply #184)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:18 PM

186. Yup.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #42)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:20 AM

133. Maybe you can go visit the murder pig in prison

 

You could have a nice conversation about murdering people who do things that irk you.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #42)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:51 AM

141. Your points might be valid, but I don't think you'd shoot someone because of the annoyance.......


....... n'est-ce pas?

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #42)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:33 PM

163. Yes, how dare the texter break the sanctity of the previews. (nt)

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:23 AM

53. i wouldn't be surprised if the killer had donated to Zimmerman

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:32 AM

58. i wonder if he felt "tough and manly" and like some fucking hero

when he pulled the trigger.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #58)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:26 AM

77. Well at least Brit Hume will be glad to know

the shooter wasn't feminized. What a shame that would have been.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 06:36 AM

87. people are nothing but trouble

 

it's best to avoid large groups of them.

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Response to FatBuddy (Reply #87)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 06:38 AM

88. lol Gotta agree there. nt

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:27 AM

94. If the theater was still showing the previews, sending a

text message is not that big a deal (just as long as the person sending the text stops when the movie starts). It should never have become a death sentence. I have to wonder if the shooter had anger management issues. I think that allowing any and all gun owners to shoot other people at the least provocation is creating a lawless nation. While there are some situations where a shooting might be justifiable, there are far too many where it is not.

On Morning Joe they just stated the shooter has been charged with 2nd Degree Murder. I have no problem with that charge.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:32 AM

95. This is why it's so great to have an armed society.

 

Get mad at somebody and how convenient, you have an instrument to transform your lost temper into a death sentence for the object of your ire.

in case it's necessary

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #95)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:45 AM

98. I fear one of these days we'll see

an armed public deliver its own justice for acts like this. More victims in the crossfire.

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Response to BadgerKid (Reply #98)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:53 AM

99. In many ways, I think the "one of these days" to which you refer is here.

 

And those of us who recognize the problem are powerless to fix it.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:52 AM

105. Sigh!

And both never got to see the movie thanks to the killer's action.

Rest in peace.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:04 AM

110. RIP Chad Oulson

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:24 AM

114. This is literally insane!!!!!

How important was his texting during a movie, that someone would end his life for it? How do people get to that point in their thinking? I am at a loss to understand.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:29 AM

116. I don't care WHO he was texting, he didn't deserve to DIE for his transgression

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #116)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:39 AM

118. A gun is like a hammer for many folks. When you carry one, every situation seems like a nail.

 

It requires use of the hammer.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #116)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:01 AM

125. The fact that people are arguing for the 71-year-old man is blowing my mind.

Even though I hate theater texters, this is not the answer.

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #125)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:00 PM

166. Yeap, the man had a 3 yr old child... they are mad cause he was texting... this is not du

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:01 AM

124. If all movie theaters did what the Alamo Drafthouse did, which is kick you out on your ass

the second you pick up your phone in the theater (with no excuses - it's right there before the movie starts: use your phone or be disruptive, and you're gone), this wouldn't have happened.

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #124)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:43 PM

194. Are you saying texting during the preview caused this to happen? It is the texter's own fault?

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #194)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 06:46 PM

202. Nope.

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #202)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 06:49 PM

204. Thanks, it seemed odd, figured I was wrong but best way to find out is to ask

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #124)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 06:49 PM

203. If the murderer hadn't had gun, which was also against the rules, and decided to shoot someone

because the victim was doing something that irritated him, this wouldn't have happened.

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Response to kcr (Reply #203)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:29 PM

214. ^ this. n/t

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:04 AM

127. I have a brother who is a firearms instructor.

He carries everywhere he goes and is one of the kindest, most generous people I know. He says constantly, "When you carry a gun, every situation you're in has a gun involved by default. Therefore your behavior must necessarily be beyond reproof."

This man's behavior was not beyond reproof. A polite reminder to turn off the phone followed by an understanding "Oh I have a 3-year old grandchild myself" was warranted. Provoking an argument was not.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:20 AM

134. What a fucking scumbag.

That poor family.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:20 AM

135. Our top priority must be to protect Reeves' "gun rights."

And to hell with all the rest.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:42 AM

138. Gunner shithead in action...no doubt he felt "threatened," as all these gunner shithead cowards do

 

What a piece of shit.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #138)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:44 PM

209. Luckily it is an objective standard that controls

In order to be protected, a reasonable person must feel threatened. The fact that this individual old man felt threatened is meaningless

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:50 AM

140. Of course the only logical solution is to protect

 

Reeves' right to own a firearm and to protect himself.



What Reeves did was cold blooded murder and he should go to prison for it. No one deserves to die because of texting during movie previews.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:04 AM

144. Florida is the wild west over here

I am extra careful not to even make people angry when I go out. Too many guns floating around.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:12 AM

146. The movie hadn't even started yet

and the old guy couldn't stand someone texting in the theater. Even during the previews.

I bet the old guy's going to claim "stand your ground" because the victim was threatening him with popcorn.

There were 25 witnesses in the theater, so at least the old guy won't be able to claim something that didn't happen.

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Response to mainer (Reply #146)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:45 AM

152. The Old Coot could have just changed his damned seat

 

Nope, "Stand your ground". Cannot get up and MOVE. A lot of old men in Florida have this attitude.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #152)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:31 PM

162. As usual, a lady and mom offers the rational solution to gun violence.

 

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:19 AM

150. another law-abiding gun owner commits murder. This piece of filth needs to die in

 

prison, and have all of his worldly belongings seized, auctioned off, with the proceeds going to the victim's family.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:24 AM

151. In some respects I might make the NRA look like the Brady campaign

but I find it shocking that anyone would defend or even play the old "wait and see" game here, pro RKBA folks should run not walk from the likes of this crazy ass fool.

If you think this even might be acceptable behavior then I think you ought to take any and all firearms to be destroyed or redistributed to somewhat sane and responsible folks because you have clearly and utterly lost it and probably won't be able to find it any easier than Humpty Dumpty was put together again.

That old codger has no place in anything even vaguely resembling a decent society, There isn't the slightest hint of reasonable use, no plausible argument. The rationalizations are ridiculous here.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:51 AM

154. someone is really trying to hard....

killing someone in a movie theatre over popcorn and texting is now acceptable to even a tiny minority of people?

oh well, another day in paradise.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:09 PM

156. EarlG took out the trash.

 

firsttimer has been PPRed - "Gun nut troll."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=310529&sub=trans

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Response to pintobean (Reply #156)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:18 PM

185. I don't know about that.

Do you think it was really their first time here?

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #185)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:39 PM

192. No, and it won't be the last.

 

Like many here, I had that one pegged from the beginning.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:43 PM

164. So many people have guns. So few people actually *need* them.

That's my response to the line often thrown out by the gun enthusiasts, "Well, you can't just ban all guns."

Which is true. A total, blanket prohibition on all private firearm ownership is simply not feasible or possible. No elected official to my knowledge has suggested that because no elected official

However, to those who have chosen to own and/or carry a gun, it's time for a moment of introspection.

Have you witnessed a mafia murder? Has your house or neighboring houses been subjected to prior violent home invasions?

Then yes, you might need a gun. If I were in that situation, I might choose to buy a gun for my protection.

Are you an avid hunter? Are you an Olympic skeet shooting hopeful?

Then you don't necessarily need a gun, but owning a gun for those limited purposes is understandable.

If you aren't in any of those categories, then no, you neither have a need for a gun nor is it practical for you to own one for your own limited interests. And it's high time for you to consider whether your little lifestyle choice could end doing far more harm than good. Much like the man at this theater should have asked himself. Or George Zimmerman. Or the man who went into my office building last year and shot his wife and then himself.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #164)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:07 PM

167. Well thought out. If only those who keep telling us they are responsible gun owners, would act it.

 


That includes encouraging folks to change their attitudes toward guns, quit carrying them when there is little need, quit accumulating more of them, quit teaching the next generation that guns are good, quit promoting them, demand NRA become responsible and not a right wing political and gun sales organization, etc.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #164)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:24 PM

173. Because they're nothing without their guns.

It's part of the tough-guy fantasy. They feel so meek and worthless that they need a gun to feel powerful. Remember that, to these pseudo-tough guys, power is everything. They buy into the paradigm that a men's worth should be judged on pretentious aspects such as aggressiveness and their ability to harm others. These are the "football mentality" types.

The gun is a cheat to them. They'll always feel masculine because they can kill anyone at a moment's notice. They also constantly fantasize about being the hero and killing bad guys.

Basically, it brings them closer to what they think the ideal man should be: a cheesy action movie hero.

Not all gun owners are like this, but the ones that are shouldn't be gun owners.

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Response to Dash87 (Reply #173)

Wed Jan 15, 2014, 09:51 AM

217. I'll bet anything this guy was carrying in the theater because he was going to be the guy....

....who stopped an Aurora type shooting, single handedly. And look where it got him.

Meanwhile, in New Mexico yesterday, we have yet another teacher who was able to heroically diffuse a school shooting that could have been much, much worse than it already was. He did so without the use of a single gun.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:57 PM

165. HORRIBLE FUCKIN BASTARD!! I pray the grace he didn't extend be heap on his head!!

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:13 PM

168. A woman lost her husband.

a daughter lost a father. Parents have lost a son. And the shooter may lose his freedom. Or at least have a bunch of legal fees. America loves its 2nd amendment rights. Everybody wins!!!

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:32 PM

174. if you're more concerned with the fact that he was texting,

instead of him getting shot for it, you're missing the point. this doesn't have anything to do with texting. if the shooter was mentally unstable enough to shoot someone for a minor offense, it could have been anything that set him off. the point is that SOMEONE GOT SHOT OVER THIS. FOR SOMETHING AS MINOR AS TEXTING IN A MOVIE THEATER. SHOT FOR NO REASON

HOW CAN YOU JUSTIFY THIS

also it's great to see assumptions about the father who was texting, like 'he has a texting addiction' and sarcasm like 'it must have been so important.....'

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Response to moxie.lu (Reply #174)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 06:59 PM

206. Yes, so much this.

Everyone has something that do that irritates someone. Even those who hate texters. Anyone could potentially be a victim.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #175)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:57 PM

180. How tragic for the ex-cop who felt disempowered for not being obeyed he had no recourse but to shoot

and kill this guy?

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:58 PM

181. I usually oppose capital punishment but....

 

in this case I suggest no trial (the facts are clear) and no need to worry about "unusual punishment". The perpetrator should be shot at sunrise without a last breakfast. Can we do it tomorrow please?

This is outrageous but it is the culture the NRA and certain political figures (2nd Amendment remedies) have created. It is where rather than resolve differences by calling the authorities you become a vigilante. The underlying premise is the person with the gun is in the "right" and of course right with God for striking down this father and husband because he was texting?

I have been frustrated with people in theaters, church, etc. that text or don't silence their phones but usually the glares from the others is enough to modify their behavior.

This 71 year old will now become a ward of the state of Florida with NRA members paying to keep him alive because he felt he had the right to use deadly force to resolve a texting dispute?

Really? This is the American mentality of 2014.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:14 PM

183. DUTY to Stand your ground?

 

It seems far too many people with guns in SYG states think this. One cannot run away, change their seats, leave, etc., because the state (with blessing of NRA) in a backhanded way is telling them NOT TO?

I wonder.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:30 PM

188. What the hell is up with Florida?!

That entire state has jumped the shark!

Of course this "could have happened anywhere," but it happened in Florida. Weird news strikes again. (And again. And again.)

And if Casey Anthony and George Zimmerman are any examples, the shooter will probably walk as well.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:34 PM

189. Texting in theater: imappropriate. Shooting somebody for texting in theater:

 

inappropriate times 1,000,000,000.

Guy needs LWOP and to be financially ruined.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #189)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:24 PM

208. Texting is SILENT

 

He could have had someone talking on a cell, having a conversation with people with them, crunching on potato chips, snapping on gum, etc., etc. It could be ENDLESS things that could drive other people CRAZY. ROFL

Edit. My husband has fallen asleep a few times at movies and started SNORING LOUDLY. People around us just laughed at that. In Florida, it could get him SHOT????

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #208)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:06 PM

212. A cell phone that is on can ring at any time. It has to be on to be used for texting.

 

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:43 PM

195. SMH

Very Sad and the comments are also horrible

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:06 PM

196. freepers were ready to blame "amish"

Freepers were ready to blame Muslims/Obamas (key word amish) children. and then the news came out he was on old retired white guy they switched to coverup mode blaming Alzheimer etc..

Other idiots in Florida newspapers claim that if every one was armed in a darkened theater they could defend themselves. As to how exactly a bunch of armed people shooting in a darkened theater would shoot and aim let alone decide who is the good guy and who is the bad guy is lost on their tea bagged brains.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/24435641/2014/01/13/shots-fired-at-wesley-chapel-movie-theater?fb_comment_id=fbc_1475124986048189_294979_1475157002711654#f1321234a8

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:53 PM

211. A little girl lost her father here

I am very sad. It is sad that this little girl lost her father due to the fact that some one who probably should be no longer carrying a guy lost his cool. From what I have read of the facts, I am glad that the judge denied bail for this person and I hope that he is kept off the street.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Original post)

Wed Jan 15, 2014, 03:49 AM

216. I expect and anticipate we'll have a headline here like this soon.

We have OPEN carry. No real licensing/backgrounding required. Wear it to your grocery store, the movies, in the local kiddie park.........

A very contentious open hearing meeting last week included many so-called "sourdoughs" shouting over anyone with an opposing view. Many were packing.

Inadequacy? You got it. The bigger your handgun makes me wonder what isn't in your pants. I own guns. I use them to hunt. I eat what I hunt. That's it. A couple months ago, a dude was stalking the grocery aisle - in town, no danger of bears - with his about 2 year old in the basket. Not only carrying, but had a bowie knife strapped on, too. I asked him about the threat the avocados were posing................

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