PETA Protest Calls For Extinction Of Cattle

[Purveyor]

PETA is at it again. This time the extremist group is walking the streets proposing wild ideas about how to rid the world of dairy products and, ultimately, the cattle that produce meat and dairy.

It’s hard to believe people still take a group like People for Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) seriously, as their escapades are so ridiculous and nonsensical. For instance, California-based SUN News reporters Brian Lilley and David Menzies recently reported on PETA’s protest of the dairy industry. The group’s logic is laughable, but it’s also quite disturbing that people could actually have such strong views so lacking in common sense. Keep reading to see what I mean.

One protester suggested that the animals would no longer suffer if they were no longer around.

“They don’t want them to suffer, but they don’t want them to exist anymore,” concluded Brian Lilley, SUN News reporter. “I don’t care if they are vegetarians, but they want to force it on me. I’m not trying to shove a burger down their throats.”

“Their warped logic is amazing. They don’t want to see the animals and cows suffer, so they want them to be extinct,” added Menzies.

MORE...

http://beefmagazine.com/blog/peta-protest-calls-extinction-cattle

[redgreenandblue]

1. It is not warped logic.

They think that the domesticated state is inherently unnatural for an animal and thus should not exist.
Whether one agrees with the premise or not (and I don't), their position is conceptually sound.

[Xyzse]

6. Domesticated state is inherently unnatural?

So, what next, calling for the extinction of Dogs, Cats and Gerbils?

Not saying you agree, I am just trying to wrap my mind around it.

[X_Digger]

10. They have killed pets.

http://petakillsanimals.ru/

According to records from the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, PETA killed 1,647 cats and dogs last year while placing just 19 in adoptive homes. Since 1998, a total of 29,398 pets have died at the hands of PETA workers.
...
Despite its $36 million budget, PETA employees make little effort to find homes for the thousands of animals they kill every year. PETA President Ingrid Newkirk previously indicated to The Virginian-Pilot that the animal rights group could stop killing pets, but it would mean cutting down on press stunts and celebrity photo shoots: “We could become a no-kill shelter immediately. It means we wouldn't do as much work."

See http://petakillsanimals.ru/downloads/PetaKillsAnimals.pdf

[Xyzse]

11. Really?

I tried looking at their site, and I don't see these types of things.

Didn't even know that they were like this.

I am a bit disturbed.

[X_Digger]

20. Here's another good link..

[gollygee]

17. Cats and dogs eat meat

I know a few people try to feed these carnivorous animals vegetarian diets, but it isn't natural for them and it's unusual, and if the animals are adopted out, certainly most of them will contribute to an increase in the purchase of meat products. I figure that's their issue with adopting out animals.

[Vincardog]

61. No their issue with adopting out animals is that those poor animals would be exploited by their

owners. They do not want any animal to exist under the control of people.

[gollygee]

113. My cat thinks that's funny

LOL. I think we exist under her control rather than vice versa.

[X_Digger]

114. Our Lords and Masters (our three rescue doxies) think the same thing. n/t

[Vincardog]

115. As I exist solely for the benefit of my cat master.

[HERVEPA]

58. THat's the bullshit.

Now try reading something not put forth by industry shills:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/peta-and-humane-society-attacked-by-reports--but-are-they-real/2012/02/27/gIQAZdR2dR_blog.html

[X_Digger]

62. Read your own link..

According to a 2010 report by the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, of the 4,569 pets received by PETA that year, 3,630 were euthanized. In 2011, out of 2,050 pets PETA received that year, 1,965 were euthanized.

3,630 / 4,569 = 79.4% of animals were euthanized in 2010.

1,965 / 2,050 = 95.9% of animals were euthanized in 2011.

[HERVEPA]

74. Sorry, wrong link

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/peta-and-humane-society-attacked-by-reports--but-are-they-real/2012/02/27/gIQAZdR2dR_blog.html

[X_Digger]

75. Same link, same quote. n/t

[HERVEPA]

80. Please post what URL you are linking to

That is not what I get from the link. I get a Washington Post story:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/peta-and-humane-society-attacked-by-reports--but-are-they-real/2012/02/27/gIQAZdR2dR_blog.html

[X_Digger]

82. See my other reply, I provided a screenshot.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/peta-and-humane-society-attacked-by-reports--but-are-they-real/2012/02/27/gIQAZdR2dR_blog.html

Same URL, same text.

[HERVEPA]

76. That was not my link!

[X_Digger]

78. Yes, it is..

Let me quote more of it..

PETA and Humane Society attacked by reports – but are they real?
By Elizabeth Flock

That's the headline.. this is the fourth and fifth paragraph-

[HERVEPA]

83. Sorry, didn't realizing you were doing a bullshit cherrypick

without indicating that you were.

[X_Digger]

85. A 'cherry pick'? Of the animals PETA took in, they killed 80% in 2010, and 95.9% in 2011.

These reports are generated by every rescue agency in the state; they document intake and disposition of every animal the group handles.

That's what this subthread is talking about- how PETA treats the animals they take in.

[HERVEPA]

87. Way to avoid mentioning you cherrypicked. I'm done with you. On ignore.

[X_Digger]

91. Lol, you're pissed that you ignored the text of your own link?!?

Fine, place me on ignore for using your own source to prove that you're wrong.

It's as good a reason as any, I suppose, however juvenile it is.

[Springslips]

134. Wow

That is the stranges argument I ever read. First arguing seven times whether you and him were posting the same link, and two, hi being mad for getting own by his own evidence. It's delightfully absurd. See something new everyday!

[X_Digger]

135. It did feel like...

[HERVEPA]

147. Do you know what the hell cherrypicking means?

[X_Digger]

177. What data was left out? (That's the basis for a cherrypicking claim.) n/t

[HERVEPA]

178. The rest of the whole friggin article

which explained a lot more.

[X_Digger]

179. What *data*? That's what cherrypicking means.

Is there another shelter that PETA runs that *didn't* kill 80-96% of the animals they took in? Not including that would be a valid claim of cherry picking.

You're not disputing that PETA kills 80-96% of the animals they take in, correct? You're just claiming that they have legitimate reasons for doing so.

Then a claim of cherry picking of data isn't substantiated.

You claim via your source that PETA only takes in sick, old, close-to-death animals, right?

Not according to multiple sources..

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/saunders/article/Better-dead-than-fed-PETA-says-2626614.php

The arrest followed a rash of unwelcome discoveries of dead animals dumped in the area. According to veterinarian Patrick Proctor, the PETA people told North Carolina shelters they would try to find the dogs and cats homes. He handed over two adoptable kittens and their mother, only to learn later that they had died, without a chance to find a home, in the PETA van. "This is ethical?" Proctor railed over the phone. "I don't really think so."
...
Besides, PETA always has been about killing animals. A 2003 New Yorker profile included PETA top dog Ingrid Newkirk's story of how she became involved in animal rights after a shelter put down stray kittens she brought there. So she went to work for an animal shelter in the 1970s, where, she explained, "I would go to work early, before anyone got there, and I would just kill the animals myself. Because I couldn't stand to let them go through (other workers abusing the animals.) I must have killed a thousand of them, sometimes dozens every day."

http://www.roanoke-chowannewsherald.com/2007/01/24/testimony-underway-in-peta-trial/

While at AAH, employees there, through a pre-arranged pick-up, released a mother cat and two kittens to Hinkle and Cook.

The van traveled back to the Bertie shelter where Hinkle and Cook took possession of several animals. At some point (PETA officials attending the trial said it occurred in the van while parked at the Bertie shelter), all of the animals were euthanized by Hinkle.

After leaving the shelter, the van was tailed as it made its way to Ahoskie. The van turned into New Market Shopping Center and headed behind Piggly Wiggly. There, according to Roberts, a female, later identified as Hinkle, was behind the wheel. She made a u-turn and parked the side doors of the van next to the door of the dumpster.

Roberts said while he and Bertie Sheriff’s Detective Ed Pittman were approaching the van on foot from their surveillance locations behind the grocery store, he could hear the “thump, thump” of heavy objects striking the bottom of the empty dumpster.

Were those kittens old, sick, or near-death, too??

[Nuclear Unicorn]

201. It could mean people ignoring evidence unfavorable to their argument, i.e.

PETA killed 95% of the animals it took in.

[Ranchemp.]

93. So because you can't prove xdigger wrong,

you put him on ignore?
It was your own link that proved you wrong about PETA.

[HERVEPA]

111. Again bullshit

They euthanized unadoptable animals. How about you take in all the unadoptable animals in the country.
And he cherrypicked, no matter how much you ignore it.
In case you never realized, the next animal in a no kill shelter means when it's full, and it almost always is, thet the next one goes to a shelter where it will eventually be killed, sometime inhumanely in a mass gassing.
And I've had enough of your gunnery also, so goodbye to you too.

[Ranchemp.]

136. Gunnery?

Is that the new catch word now?

[Eleanors38]

168. Gunz on GD: It's ba-a-a-a-ack.

[yewberry]

150. I can prove xdigger wrong.

xdigger hasn't bothered to respond.

[flvegan]

151. I think I know why.

[snooper2]

86. So after your subthread proved XDigger correct, what is bullshit about post #10 again?

[HERVEPA]

148. Cherry picked iformation. And time to trash this idiotic thread.

[Archae]

69. This web site is run by a corporate whore.

Richard Berman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Consumer_Freedom

But PETA is an organization of total assholes.

[X_Digger]

73. And that has no bearing on what we were discussing.

HERVEPA posted a corroborating link...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/peta-and-humane-society-attacked-by-reports--but-are-they-real/2012/02/27/gIQAZdR2dR_blog.html

See post #62.

[athena]

92. News flash: all shelters either reject or kill animals.

http://features.peta.org/petasaves/

Like open-admission animal shelters across the country, PETA performs the heartbreaking task of euthanizing animals who are unwanted for one reason or another: because they are aggressive, sick, hurt, elderly, or at death's door and because no good homes exist for them. Front groups for animal-exploiting industries seize on this aspect of our work to further their agenda, attempt to divide our movement, and protect their profits.

One of these groups is the disingenuously named Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF), which is run by lobbyist Richard Berman and is funded by KFC, Outback Steakhouse, Philip Morris, cattle ranchers, and other companies who cruelly kill millions of healthy animals every year—and who bring them into this world just to kill them. The CCF devotes considerable manpower, time, and money in an attempt to make people who care about animals believe false and misleading information about PETA's work.

PETA operates what could be called a "shelter of last resort" for the most broken animals. When impoverished families cannot afford to pay a veterinarian to let a suffering and/or aged animal leave this world, PETA will help. When an aggressive, unsocialized dog has been left to starve at the end of a chain with a collar grown into his neck and his body racked with mange, PETA will spare him from dying slowly and miserably in someone's backyard. As Virginia officials speaking of PETA's euthanasia rate acknowledged to USA Today,

PETA will basically take anything that comes through the door, and other shelters won't do that.

[X_Digger]

98. Has anyone claimed that some shelters aren't no-kill?

That's nice straw man you've burned, did you stuff it yourself?

[athena]

102. Oh, no, implying is so much more effective than making an outright claim!

It allows the implier an easy-out, after all!

Your implication was that PETA runs "shelters" whose sole purpose is to kill animals. In reality, PETA's shelters, like all shelters that refuse to reject any animals, euthanize only those animals that are in a great deal of pain.

[X_Digger]

108. What you read into my post illuminates your apprehensions far more than you realize. n/t

[yewberry]

142. Your source is a lobbying group for the meat, cigarette, alcohol & restaurant industries.

Not to mention a bunch of lying shitstains.

[X_Digger]

144. Thank HERVEPA for corroboration in post #58 (wapo). n/t

[yewberry]

145. Uh, thank me for revealing Rick Berman.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Center_for_Consumer_Freedom

Lying dirtbags, you're welcome.


And allow me to explain why numbers do not prove anything in this discussion. If someone were to post a breakdown of how many touchdowns the Mariners make versus the Seahawks, stupid people might conclude that, gee, those Mariners are a terrible football team!

Well, PETA also doesn't make many touchdowns, and they do not adopt many animals, because they are nether a football team not an adoption service. They adopt out very few animals because what they *do* do is provide humane euthanization services for animals deemed unadoptable to animal shelters who may not be able to do so.

They are there to provide a decent death for animals that might be shot, or starved, or gassed. As distasteful as that is, those animals deserve better. You might not agree, but as someone who has fished bags of dead puppies out of a pond and peeled a dead German Shepherd off of the frozen ground, I do.

Get it?

You're welcome.

[X_Digger]

176. If a team scored 2 touchdowns a season, everyone would call them shitty.

I've worked with multiple rescue groups, if one of them had a 96% kill rate, they'd be investigated by the state.

Let's look at Ingrid's own words:

"Our goal is total animal liberation, and the day when everyone believes that animals are not ours to eat, not ours to wear, not ours to experiment {sic}, and not ours for entertainment or any other exploitave {sic} purpose."

See starting at 12:09 in the youtube link I posted above.

"Total Animal Liberation"? There's no 'except for pets we like' or 'except for service dogs for the blind', etc. No asterisks 'round here.

If PETA had their way, no animal would be used in any way- no way to test new antibiotics, no way to test cancer treatment drugs, no new vaccines, no new treatments for AIDS.

No service dogs for the blind, no cadaver dogs to find mass graves, no rescue dogs to find buried victims after a quake, no scent hounds to find missing kids in the woods.

Fee free to hand wave away any uncomfortable results, but that is "Total Animal Liberation".

[yewberry]

202. Wow, totally changed your argument, didncha?

You don't want to talk about posting lies by a lobbying group, fine. You don't want to acknowledge that you're completely misrepresenting peta's euthanization services, fine. If you want to ignore what I posted, fine.

You want to talk about Ingrid Newkirk? Try talking to someone defending her.

[X_Digger]

203. Oh, did PETA throw her out, and I didn't hear about it? Silly me.

And here I thought she was still the President and setting corporate policy.

As the architect of policy for the organization we're discussing, I think her statements are apropos, don't you?

[yewberry]

205. I objected to your posting lies

and ginned up stats by a bullshit lobbying group. That is what I responded to. If you want to pretend that disapproving of lies and bad stats is advocating for Ingrid Newkirk's approach, go for it. You're just embarrassing yourself.

I am an animals rights advocate, not necessarily a peta advocate. Again, if you want to talk about Ingrid Newkirk, fight with someone else.

[X_Digger]

206. Are the stats not accurate? Have anything to dispute them?

Is the state of Virginia's Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services a 'bullshit lobbying group', too?

[redgreenandblue]

13. They want to end all pet ownership.

Either by phasing out or killing.

[athena]

96. That's not true.

If it were true, they wouldn't have pet-related tips on their web site:
http://www.peta.org/living/companion-animals/caring-animal-companions/dogs/dog-training/

Here is a better explanation of their stance on pets:
http://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/pets/

We at PETA very much love the animal companions who share our homes, but we believe that it would have been in the animals’ best interests if the institution of “pet keeping”—i.e., breeding animals to be kept and regarded as “pets”—never existed. The international pastime of domesticating animals has created an overpopulation crisis; as a result, millions of unwanted animals are destroyed every year as “surplus.”

[X_Digger]

107. Someone else posting something that proves themselves wrong..

Last edited Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:31 PM - Edit history (1)

We at PETA.. believe that it would have been in the animals' best interest if the institution of "pet keeping".. never existed

Or you know, we could just look at Ingrid's own words.

"Our goal is total animal liberation, and the day when everyone believes that animals are not ours to eat, not ours to wear, not ours to experiment {sic}, and not ours for entertainment or any other exploitave {sic} purpose."

See starting at 12:09 in the youtube link I posted above.

"Total Animal Liberation"? There's no 'except for pets we like' or 'except for service dogs for the blind', etc. No asterisks 'round here.

[kestrel91316]

30. Yes. They want an end to the very concept of "pets". They also want

an end to the existence of my entire profession, because we enable animal "exploitation".

You get one guess what i think of PETA.

[Xyzse]

37. I don't think highly of them...

However, that type of thing, I haven't actually seen. Not that I make time to look for it, but still.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

65. Probably the same as I do.

What miserable fucks they are. A life without animals would be so empty. I even have a pet cow who turns 23 March 2nd and to think they would kill the old dear is too much for me to deal with.

[Drale]

94. PETA's position is that an animal is better dead than a pet

because you know, that the only way to give animals rights.

[athena]

97. Not true.

See my post #96 in this thread.

[Xyzse]

99. Actually, not from what it showed on their site.

Now, in actual practice, that is still something I am looking at.
That practice of euthanizing pets without trying hard to look for homes, if true, is definitely sickening.

[Dorian Gray]

170. I think

that Peta has put down many homeless animals in the past. So it's not out of character.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/10/peta-euthanasia-huffpost-live-video_n_3055854.html

[pnwmom]

14. Humans are domesticated.

Cats are our overseers.

[Xyzse]

15. I can agree with this.

[redgreenandblue]

16. I have to agree that humans are domesticated.

[gollygee]

18. Yes

I am well trained by my cat.

[Aerows]

199. Mine certainly owns me

I don't own her! LOL

[RebelOne]

19. As a vegetarian, I sort of agree with PETA.

But I think they are way over the top on some issues. One which is ridiculous is that they ban wearing silk because the silk worms are being exploited. I wear silk and I don't give a damn about the silk worms because I hate all bugs.

[athena]

27. It's so much more popular on DU to attack PETA than the factory-farming industry!

After all, it's not the factory farms that are torturing and killing innocent animals just for profit; it's PETA! Oh, wait. Never mind.

[Ranchemp.]

29. And PETA is against hunting, so, in essence, that makes them the enemy of hunters.

PETA can go pound sand up their wazoo for all I care, I donate to worthy animal causes, like the ASPCA.

[RebelOne]

139. I am 100% against hunting.

I worked for 13 years for an outdoors magazine. I would have to edit hunting stories that were quite graphic and I hated having to view the photos of those smiling idiots holding up the heads of their kills. It was a job, and jobs were hard to come by at the time.

I did not hate my job because I worked for a wonderful company with great benefits. I am retired now, so I can bitch a little.

[Ranchemp.]

143. I don't hunt for trophy, I don't sport hunt,

we eat every kill and if we can, we'll donate xtra meat to the local food pantry as we did this year and they were damn glad to receive it as were the needy.

I have no problem with you being 100% against hunting, just don't condemn those of us that do hunt for food, as does PETA.

[jmowreader]

57. It's more popular because it's more fun

DU has no shortage of bile for the factory farming industry.

OTOH I have never seen factory farmers doing any of the "look at me, aren't I outrageous" shit PETA does routinely.

PETA is the Westboro Baptist of the animal rights world. Are they there to make HSUS look sane?

[athena]

60. Really?

Please show me all the threads attacking the factory farming industry.

On the rare occasions that someone posts such a thread, it usually sinks like a rock. The few times when such a thread doesn't sink, it's trolled by people who post steak recipes, brag about how they like their meat, claim they only eat the animals they hunt, etc.

The unfortunate truth is that most people are in denial about this issue, and few people are doing anything to change that.

ETA: If people really cared about the issue of factory farming, they would stop supporting the factory-farming industry. The vast majority of people here are omnivores.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

95. Back in the early 80's, I donated to PETA

and would received their newsletter. I was deeply offended by their ignorance of domesticated animals and quit donating. I've been a vegetarian for over 40 years.

[NoOneMan]

163. I don't think this is all that whacko

The intentional breeding of cattle does produce a perpetual state of suffering with each new generation, along with massive pollution and greenhouse gases. To stop such intentional breeding will end such a state, especially when the current generation expires.

[Dorian Gray]

169. I disagree

that it's sound.

That's like saying women sold into slavery.... that's unnatural. So instead of freeing them and working to reincorporate them into society, we should just kill them.

And I wholeheartedly disagree with Peta's stance on the domestication of cattle.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

200. "They think that the domesticated state is inherently unnatural"

So are vegetable crops.

[alfredo]

208. My concern for cattle is that they may have lost the ability to survive in the wild.

They haven't had to protect themselves from predators for a long time. I think they would have a tough time surviving in areas where they have been protected from predation.

Feral pigs have fared well and have become a problem in some areas. BTW, I think they taste better than domestic pigs. That's probably due to the varied diet they eat in the wild. When I eat meat, I try to find wild meat. Read "The Omnivore's Dilemma" by Michael Pollan.

I guess if cattle can survive several generation, then the younger cows will have some practice dealing with predators.

[badtoworse]

2. A few years ago, they were pushing for breast milk ice cream.

They're crazy.

[alfredo]

209. Breast milk tastes great. I bet it would make great ice cream due to fat content.

[get the red out]

3. They want dogs and cats extinct also

So they will no longer be our slaves.

(In our house it's kind of the other way around on who is the servant though, LOL.)

[Xyzse]

8. Oh carp. I was just mentioning it earlier, and didn't see this post.

Really? I just... They forget the symbiotic relationship we have with domesticated animals for a while.

[get the red out]

23. I hate PETA because they despise what I love, pets.

After learning about PETA's attitude toward pets, and how much they believe in killing as many as possible, I can honestly say I despise this organization with everything in me. They are sickening, twisted, and outside reality and decency in every way. Compassion doesn't exist in them, just some kind of belief system that is neither for the good of animals nor people. Their beliefs exist like a religion of it's own, IMO, to be followed without compassion or reason.

Here is their own words:

but we believe that it would have been in the animals’ best interests if the institution of “pet keeping”—i.e., breeding animals to be kept and regarded as “pets”—never existed. The international pastime of domesticating animals has created an overpopulation crisis; as a result, millions of unwanted animals are destroyed every year as “surplus.”

This selfish desire to possess animals and receive love from them causes immeasurable suffering, which results from manipulating their breeding, selling or giving them away casually, and depriving them of the opportunity to engage in their natural behavior. They are restricted to human homes, where they must obey commands and can only eat, drink, and even urinate when humans allow them to.

Read more: http://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/pets/#ixzz2qOkdXLcj

Here is an editorial about what they do with pets:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-j-winograd/peta-kills-puppies-kittens_b_2979220.html

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) is an organization that publicly claims to represent the best interest of animals -- indeed their "ethical treatment." Yet approximately 2,000 animals pass through PETA's front door every year and very few make it out alive. The vast majority -- 96 percent in 2011 -- exit the facility out the back door after they have been killed, when Pet Cremation Services of Tidewater stops by on their regular visits to pick up their remains. Between these visits, the bodies are stored in the giant walk-in freezer PETA installed for this very purpose. It is a freezer that cost $9,370 and, like the company which incinerates the bodies of PETA's victims, was paid for with the donations of animal lovers who could never have imagined that the money they donated to help animals would be used to end their lives instead. In fact, in the last 11 years, PETA has killed 29,426 dogs, cats, rabbits, and other domestic animals.

[Xyzse]

41. Actually reading what they have said in regards to Pets...

They seem to be against the animal mill industry, which I can agree with.

This part in the link you gave:

Contrary to myth, PETA does not want to confiscate animals who are well cared for and “set them free.” What we want is for the population of dogs and cats to be reduced through spaying and neutering and for people to adopt animals (preferably two so that they can keep each other company when their human companions aren’t home) from pounds or animal shelters—never from pet shops or breeders—thereby reducing suffering in the world.

I can agree with what they are advocating here. So, it isn't as bad as I was beginning to think.

Then I read the next link...

This gives me much to think about.

[get the red out]

46. What they do

Is kill the vast majority of homeless animals they can get their hands on. Of course they don't call for confiscation of people's pets on their website, that would be suicide, not even they are that stupid.

[X_Digger]

48. Right.. the difference between what they *say* and what they *do* is very telling. n/t

[Xyzse]

54. I've been wary of them for a while...

I guess I have research ahead of me.

Thanks.

[athena]

71. Here is something worth reading.

http://www.farmsanctuary.org/learn/factory-farming/

[Xyzse]

72. Thanks... Checking it out

Oh, yeah, I agree that they do create an incredible strain.

I'm not quite sure what the best option for something like that would be at this point in time.
For things to change, it requires a hell of a lot of things working in tandem.

One thing I do recommend for that website, is not just mention the problems and asking for a study in the animals' well being and psychology, but they need to come up with what they think would be viable alternatives, and a way to get there.

It is one thing to call to a problem, which is important, but it is another to suggest how to make things better.
If it is in that site, it needs to be more prominent.

The truth of the matter is, the US is a country of meat eaters, and other countries such as China is developing a bigger taste for meat.

Figuring out sustainability and better practices is a must.
If possible, I would love the idea of helping out and subsidizing Kosher and Halal farms and practices. There is a reason for the things they are doing, and it is usually about sustainability.

[get the red out]

77. The way I look at it

There are good, proven organizations that help animals. If I can give support to an organization, I will just choose one of those.

[Xyzse]

79. Well yeah.

The organization I support are the Mid-Atlantic Rescues.
The one I am affiliated with is MAGSR, for the German Shepherd Rescue, which I volunteer for now and then.

I just run the doggies.

[get the red out]

81. That's wonderful

GSDs are great dogs. You are really doing wonderful work!

[joeybee12]

4. Peta's a bunch of self-serving asshats..HOWEVER...

Yeah, an article from "Beef Magazine" ISN'T going to make shit up, right?

[Vattel]

5. Beef Magazine? Lol, what a joke. These idiots can barely knock down straw men.

[Ranchemp.]

7. What a bunch of extremist assbites.

Every time they open their holes, it reminds me of why I have nothing but contempt for them.

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. No pie.

Think of the exploited apples.

[Ranchemp.]

12. My bad, I'll edit to say holes.

Thanks for pointing this out.

[A HERETIC I AM]

25. My pleasure.

My work here is done.

[seveneyes]

21. peta is looking out for peta first

The more attention peta gets, the more incoming donation money their few elite members get. Some high roller Hollywood people give big dollars to them. This is just another of their charades to fatten the bank accounts.

[Thorin_Oakenshield]

22. but I love cows, can't we just worship them like in India?

PETA is confused anyway.

They are all for exploiting women with their naked calenders, but we must protect turkeys from people on Thanksgiving.

[athena]

24. PETA is the enemy (and factory farming is our friend)!

On a liberal-leaning board like DU, it makes so much more sense to attack PETA than the factory-farming industry!

And it's so much kinder to animals to keep them in horrendous conditions, just so the factory-farming industry can make a few more cents per animal, than to free them, even if that means they may eventually go extinct.

How kind-hearted and enlightened people here are, to attack PETA while continuing to consume the products of factory-farming!

[Ranchemp.]

26. I don't eat any store bought meat or eggs, and we pretty much

grow our own veggies.
We hunt all of our fresh, steroid free meat, and PETA is dead set against hunting also, so, that would make them my enemy also.

[kestrel91316]

32. I'm 99.9% vegan these days and I happen to loathe PETA and everything they stand for.

[athena]

44. I happen to disagree with you.

I think hatred at PETA is totally misplaced. It's not PETA that's torturing animals, destroying our environment, and putting our public health at risk. It's the factory-farming industry. It makes no sense to focus on a small organization that tries to draw attention to itself by running outrageous ads, while people continue to hand over their hard-earned money to a thoroughly evil industry.

[HERVEPA]

84. Stop making sense!

[Beaverhausen]

117. You hate everything they stand for?

So, you support the practices of factory farms? Circuses? The Fur Industry?

[Vattel]

38. You would think we could all agree that reducing suffering and increasing enjoyment are worthy goals

We could then have a useful discussion of how best to achieve those goals. But no, most "liberals," like most conservatives, don't give a damn about the happiness of anyone that isn't human (with exception sometimes of certain pets). So they just make fun of those who do.

[athena]

63. I'd like to think that more people would care

if they really knew about what goes on in factory farms.

That's why I think it's really important to spread the word. I myself was in the dark until less than a year ago. I only wish someone had pointed me in the right direction, say, by suggesting that I read Eating Animals or watch Vegucated.

[Drahthaardogs]

146. I grew up on a ranch, what exactly are you caling factory farms

Are trying to say the last 90 days in a feedlot? Beef cattle are NOT factory farmed . That is pure bunk.

[get the red out]

49. Well if it's all black and white

And supporting PETA is the only way to be against factory farming...which I do not believe is the case.

PETA is powerless against factory farming anyway because they are more into self-serving displays than substance. They love to be hated, but they don't accomplish much.

[athena]

55. Your claim is inaccurate.

PETA has figured out that they can draw attention to themselves by making statements that shock people. That doesn't mean, however, that all they do is make shocking statements.

Take a look at the following:

http://features.peta.org/MapOfAccomplishments/

http://www.peta.org/about-peta/learn-about-peta/history/

http://expertspages.com/2013/04/misunderstandings-about-peta/ (WARNING: this page has a photo that may be disturbing to some people)

[Renew Deal]

207. Can't they both be bad?

It's not really an either/or question.

[aikoaiko]

28. PETA should call them high-capacity assault cows -- and hand-wringers will ban them quickly.

hee hee.

[OmahaBlueDog]

31. The Pioneer Woman Cooks Prime Rib

I’m not sure there’s anything more special and delicious at Christmastime than a beautiful, perfectly cooked piece of roast beef. This is my version of prime rib, which is as good the next day, sliced cold right out of the fridge, as it is served warm on a plate with potatoes, mushrooms, and brussels sprouts. That was the menu I fixed for the Christmas special on Food Network (it’ll be on again today at 6:00 eastern time if you’d like to see the grub in living color) and it’s the menu I’ll be fixing again toward the end of this week.

It’s also the menu I want to eat in Heaven.

Complete cooking instuctions at: http://thepioneerwoman.com/cooking/2011/12/prime-rib/


My only objection here is where she bought her Prime Rib. What is wrong with this photo?:

[Purveyor]

40. Thanks for posting. I cooked my first prime-rib at Christmas following a recipe to is quite

similar to the one linked here. I didn't sear it in a frying pan first though as I normally do for a pot roast.

It turned out wonderfully and I must give a lot of credit to my digital thermometer!

Now waiting for warm weather so I can try one on the Webber grill.

[OmahaBlueDog]

56. A good digital thermometer is a must!

A roast on a Weber should be excellent.

My problem with doing Prime Rib is that Mrs OBD wants her roasts well done. OBKid1 and I like medium rare. OBKid2 eats only sausage balls and turkey. The cows are her friends (swine and turkey -- apparently not so much).

...and for the record, I do support responsible and humane cattle handling. However, I could debate what exactly that means all day.

..and for those offended by my display of cooked meat, the Pioneer Woman also make cinnamon rolls:

Growing up, my mom always made them for her good friends at Christmastime, and you could literally hear the primal groans of pure joy rising from the rooftops of our town. I’ve carried on the tradition through the years and have won friends and influenced people just by delivering these rolls. They really are that good.

A warning. If you follow these instructions and wind up delivering these cinnamon rolls to your friends, be prepared for any of the following to occur:
1. They’ll call you after they’ve taken the first bite and profess their eternal love for every ounce of your body.
2. They’ll pass out after the first bite, hit their head on the kitchen counter, sustain a concussion, and sue you for damages, despite the fact that the one bite they tasted of your cinnamon roll was the single most profound culinary experience in their miserable little life.
3. They’ll call you and ask for the recipe, saying, "HOW did you make those?"
4. They’ll call you and propose marriage.
5. They’ll hug the cinnamon roll pan, get maple frosting all over their clothes, and send you the bill for the dry cleaning.

The complete cooking instructions are at: http://thepioneerwoman.com/cooking/2007/06/cinammon_rolls_/

[NCTraveler]

33. While I don't share PETAs view on this....

I think the case they are making is sound. I really don't see it as "warped logic".

[Capt. Obvious]

34. Beef Magazine huh?

Did they get the provost of Bovine University to comment on this?

[athena]

66. Beef Magazine

A magazine for the cattle branch of the factory-farming industry. Just the kind of organization one can expect DUers to support!

http://beefmagazine.com/aboutus

About Us

BEEF, the nation’s leading cattle publication, annually publishes 12 monthly issues for America’s top cow-calf operators, stocker-growers, cattle feeders, veterinarians, nutritionists and allied industries, covering production, animal health, nutrition, finance and marketing issues. The printed coverage also includes four special editorial supplements annually aimed at 1,000+-head feedlots, and two special supplements annually aimed at the stocker calf segment. In addition, BEEF editorial staff produces almost 300 sector-targeted electronic newsletters annually. These include BEEF Daily, BEEF Cow-Calf Weekly, BEEF Stocker Trends, BEEF Cattle Market Weekly and BEEF Industry Express.

[Capt. Obvious]

67. Well..

[G_j]

196. lets start posting Monsanto opinion pieces...

...

[Dollface]

35. I think this falls under cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[athena]

42. It's not PETA that has no clue.

It's the vast majority of the public.

Those "responsible farmers" you speak of are extremely rare. More than 99% of farmed animals raised in the U.S. are raised in factory farms. See:
http://www.farmforward.com/farming-forward/factory-farming

[Logical]

39. PETA is a joke at this point. Embarrassing to liberals. nt

[athena]

43. Liberals are the ones that embarrass liberals

by choosing to focus on PETA rather than the factory-farming industry.

[Logical]

45. They are a parody at this point! nt

[athena]

47. Threads like this help PETA spread the word.

What PETA is trying to do is draw attention to itself by running outrageous ads and making outrageous statements. When someone posts a thread like this, they think they're attacking PETA, but in fact, they're making it extremely likely that someone will read the thread, decide to look into what PETA really does, decide that they agree with it, and become a member of PETA.

Here is what PETA does:
http://www.peta.org/about-peta/

And here is how to become a member:
https://secure.peta.org/site/SPageNavigator/Become_a_Member_2col

[X_Digger]

52. +1 donor, -5 fence sitters.

Feel free to continue that math to the logical conclusion.

If PETA had their way, no animal would be used in science- no way to test new antibiotics, no way to test cancer treatment drugs, no new vaccines, no new treatments for AIDS. Hell, no way to test the safety of the materials and chemicals used to produce the things you use every day, including the device you're typing your reply into.

[Adrahil]

120. PETA is an example of weak-minded and weak-kneed do-gooderism

They have good intentions, but it's soft-minded mush. Humans are animals. Animals sometimes each each other. Get over it PETA.

[Vattel]

171. Talk about soft-minded mush.

[greatlaurel]

50. PETA is a front group to make real humane organizations look bad

PETA is not interested in animal rights or helping animals live better lives. They are a front group to make all humane and environmental groups look silly to regular people.

I wish Anonymous would expose them for the frauds they are.

There are very real humane issues for farming, as well as serious health impacts from factory farming that are completely obscured by the press that PETA hoovers up.

If you are really interested in humane treatment of farm animals I highly recommend Temple Grandins's books, particularly Animals Make Us Human.

[HERVEPA]

59. That is total bullshit.

Get a clue.

[arcane1]

51. Not to sound like I'm defending them, but there is not one PETA quote in that article.

I can't watch the video at work, since I have no sound, so perhaps there are quotes there. But the article (from "Beef Magazine", by the way) says to "keep reading" to get PETA's views.

This is a hit piece. Granted, PETA is an easy target, and their own worst enemy, but this article is nothing but insults. By extension, anyone else opposed to industry practices would be considered "warped".

[Orrex]

53. On the whole, this is less preposterous and farcical than most of their efforts.

[Peregrine Took]

64. I agree 100%. Their lives are sh*t anyway.

They don't mean a small herd of cows (not CATTLE) but the "cattle" mentality - yes, they have to go to eliminated it. Look what happened with the snowstorm in the Dakota's recently - they froze to death right where they were standing.

[athena]

68. Factory farmed animals aren't even natural.

They've been bred to have properties that will increase profits for the factory-farming industry.

WARNING: The following may disturb some people, who, one would hope, already avoid buying factory-farmed animal products.

http://www.mspca.org/programs/animal-protection-legislation/animal-welfare/farm-animal-welfare/factory-farming/chicken/chickens-on-the-factory-farm.html

Each year in the United States alone, almost 9 billion chickens are raised and slaughtered for meat. Most of these "broiler" chickens are selectively bred, a process perfected over many generations to produce the most meat on a bird in the shortest period of time, using the least amount of feed necessary. Modern broiler chickens reach market weight in half the time it took chickens in the 1950s, while consuming one-third the amount of feed.

http://www.farmsanctuary.org/learn/factory-farming/dairy/

In 2007, the average cow in the dairy industry was forced to produce more than 20,000 lbs. of milk in one year — more than double the milk produced 40 years before. Breeding cows for this unnaturally high level of milk production, combined with damage caused to the udders by milking machines, contributes to high levels of mastitis, a very common and very painful swelling of glands of the udder.

Because it is thought to improve meat quality and tenderness, male calves are castrated at a young age. Methods include removing testicles surgically with a scalpel, crushing spermatic cords with a clamp, and constricting blood flow to the scrotum until testicles die and fall off. Each method is known to cause pain that can last for days.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

105. What happened to the cattle in the Dakotas was this;

After days in the 70's and 80's there was a freak snow storm. The cattle were still on their summer pastures and had not even grown their winter coats yet. Even if the cattle were wild and undomesticated, they couldn't they would not have been prepared for the change in weather.

Normally when the weather turns like this, the cattle are covered with thick winter coats, close to the home place and being fed hay.

It's a sad fact, but as long as people insist on eating cattle, ranchers will raise them.

[NickB79]

70. Can we at least breed back the auroch first?

Ya know, the original wild cattle from which domestic ones are descended?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/7011035/Giant-cattle-to-be-bred-back-from-extinction.html

[Eleanors38]

181. To get rid of our present cattle, turn them loose.

The wouldn't last long.

Some areas, however, must herd. The Lapps, the Masai, and peoples of extreme S. America are examples. No one can make a go of plant ag in those areas. And there are other folks, the Inuit for example, who can do neither, and must hunt and fish where they live.

[Rex]

88. Fuck with my cheeseburger and see a whole new side of me.

I dare PETA to try it!

[athena]

100. What a kind-hearted reply!

How thoughtful of you to make it clear that you have no concern for what kind of suffering the animal may have gone through before ending up on your plate.

Duly noted.

[Rex]

101. Yep, I try not to think about all the dead stuff on my plate, but no doubt

you do each and every time you eat something dead...right? Nah, didn't think so.

[athena]

104. I don't eat anything that's dead.

I've been on a plant-based diet since last February. I refuse to support an industry that tortures animals to make a profit.

[Adrahil]

118. Hey! Good for you! I choose to eat meat.

I like meat. It's tasty. I favor humane treatment of livestock, but I have no illusions about what life means. It means things eat each other. I don't have a problem with that, and I don't have any moral compunctions about it. I am an animal. I am part of the ecosystem, I am not separate from it.

[athena]

122. Choosing to support the factory-farming industry does not make you a part of the ecosystem.

There is nothing natural about factory farming. It's delusional to claim that it is "natural" to breed animals to produce more meat, eggs, and milk; pack them into small spaces such that they live their whole lives without once seeing daylight; and slaughter them using machines before they've even reached maturity.

http://www.farmsanctuary.org/learn/factory-farming/

You're implying that supporting the factory-farming industry is as valid and respectable a choice as to avoid supporting it. You can choose to believe that, but believing it doesn't make it true.

[Adrahil]

125. So I have to go full vegan?

No offense but screw that. I support local farmers and humanely raised livestock as much as possible. But I'm not going to eat a never-ending bore-fest of vegan food to satisfy hand-wringers. I'd prefer things not suffer to feed me. And I'll pay more for such meat when I can. But frankly, there are worse problems in the world. We'll get to this one once we've solved the others.

[athena]

129. Satisfy hand-wringers?

What makes you think I care about your diet choices? What you choose to eat is between you and your conscience.

I will, however, point out the lack of logic in your post. The fact that there might be other kinds of suffering in the world does not make it OK to support an industry that breeds, tortures, and destroys innocent animals for its own profit. That's as weak an excuse as the supposed blandness of a vegan diet.

[oneshooter]

140. So those plants are still alive when you cook and eat them? n/t

[jeff47]

154. Whether or not he/she knows, they are indeed alive when cooked or eaten.

The "fun" part is plants actually feel pain. Sure, they don't have a central nervous system, but their reaction to damage is extremely similar to animals reacting to damage.

But since it's harder to relate to plants than animals, a lot of people think being a vegetarian reduces the suffering of their food. Despite the fact that they're shredding a living creature with their teeth, and the bits that do survive that horror get slowly dissolved in acid.

[yewberry]

160. Plants feel pain? Are you SURE?

Really? Plants lack a central nervous system. Organisms that lack a CNS cannot feel pain by definition.

Plant reaction to damage is certainly not extremely similar to animals reacting to damage. Plants are sessile beings. There is no evolutionary advantage to any kind of pain response for beings that cannot escape from pain-- pain is a response for creatures that can escape pain. Sessile organisms cannot escape damage, so a pain response would never be advantageous.

[jeff47]

162. Plants react to damage with a cascade of chemicals and hormones

This cascade is very similar to what happens to animals when they are damaged.

When your brain says "ow", it is reacting to that cascade.

Plants are sessile beings. There is no evolutionary advantage to any kind of pain response for beings that cannot escape from pain

It allows the plant to adjust to minimize the harm caused by the damage. For example, don't send more "sap" to that part of the plant, and start growing replacements for whatever just got damaged.

And you can't treat evolution as if something was designing the organism. Lots of stuff that "doesn't make sense" have evolved.

[Orrex]

180. My car reacts with a cascade of chemicals when you cut the brake line

Does that mean my car knows that it feels pain?

[jeff47]

182. No, your car doesn't.

Your car leaks the brake fluid. That's it. There's no other chemicals, there's no hormones, and most importantly, the car doesn't change how it works - the brakes just fail to work.

The plant is actually changing its behavior based on these chemicals and hormones. It's the first step in forming the plant equivalent of a scab and then moving on to healing and recovery. And it's also the first step in your body of forming a scab and then moving on to healing and recovery.

[Orrex]

185. I have self-sealing tires. Do they know when they've been injured?

If I drive over a nail and the nail is removed, the tire leaks chemicals. The tire then reacts and seals itself through unseen internal processes, preventing leakage of further chemicals. It's a miracle of tire evolution and a great advance over the tires of ages past.

Does my tire know that it has been injured in this fashion?

[jeff47]

187. Again, the chemicals are not causing a change in behavior.

The tire does not change how it works. The fluid that was already between the layers in the tire seal the hole.

This is a change in behavior - the plant is actively doing something different because of the damage.

Btw, you are arguing that you do not know when you have been injured, just like a car or tire doesn't know. Kinda demonstrates your argument is pretty dumb.

[Orrex]

188. No, I'm arging that a biological response does not automatically indicate awareness

Btw, you are arguing that you do not know when you have been injured, just like a car or tire doesn't know. Kinda demonstrates your argument is pretty dumb.

Actually, it doesn't. And the fact that you think it does kinda demonstrates that you're... Nah.

You are arguing that an automatic biological response indicates awareness, which is one hell of a leap.

[jeff47]

190. We don't know what "awareness" is.

We have no idea what parts of the brain create "awareness" in any animal. As a result, we have no idea if other creatures are or are not aware.

Plants react to their environment, and not in an entirely automatic fashion. Is that awareness? Well, once we can figure out what causes awareness we might have an answer.

You are arguing that an automatic biological response indicates awareness, which is one hell of a leap.

You only know you are injured thanks to what you call pain, which is you sensing those automatic biological responses.

[Orrex]

191. Fair enough.

Of course, you're arguing that carnivorism and veganism are morally equivalent, in terms of injurying an organism that is aware, whatever "aware" might mean.

Works for me.

[jeff47]

192. Actually, I'm arguing veganism is worse.

The animal killed relatively quickly long before it's cooked and consumed.

The plant is either killed by cooking, or eaten while it's still alive. (Fruit excluded - plants actually don't protect fruit from damage, since it's supposed to be eaten by animals)

That being said, the cruel reality is we don't get a choice in the matter - we have to kill and eat something.

[Arcanetrance]

89. First off that video comes off as Fox News or Glen Beck

Personally I am a big fan of being rid of the factory food industry. I'm not sure anyone really preached killing any of the animals. But sadly the truth is due to how we have bred them these animals don't exist in their current version in nature. That fact should give us all pause we've bred animals for nothing but our consumption and that's kind of sad.

[jeff47]

158. We aren't photosynthetic

Or any other autotrophic mechanism.

Something has to die for us to live. Be it animals or plants.

Plants, btw, do feel pain. The hormones and chemical reactions they release when damaged is very similar to what animals go through. They just don't have a central nervous system, so people have more difficulty grafting human traits onto them.

Not to mention all the plants we've bread for "nothing but our consumption". Eat any corn recently?

[Arcanetrance]

172. Actually no I haven't not the biggest fan of corn. I'm well aware that humans aren't photosynthetic

But this factory farm system in place currently is not only harmful to the animal it's harmful to us as well. I do eat meat a couple times a week. But my meat comes either from a neighbor who hunts or I buy from a local farmer who treats his cows decently and doesn't pump them full of crap. Trust me the taste is much better. But anyway back to my main point we've created a cruel system and I do think what we are doing is kind of wrong creating an entire species that would go extinct if humans were no longer there to take care of them. Last point the effects factory farming has on humans who eat this stuff.

[jeff47]

184. Corn was just one example.

what we are doing is kind of wrong creating an entire species that would go extinct if humans were no longer there to take care of them.

That is also true of virtually every plant we eat. Even the "organic" and "all natural" ones. They were created with controlled breeding over the millennia we've been farming, and they only continue to survive because humans are caring for them.

[Arcanetrance]

189. I do know bananas are one of those things and I do love them

There really isn't a perfect solution to all this I guess. Personally I think the logic of killing animals to save them is beyond idiotic. But I'm not a big fan of our factory farming industry either. I don't think forcing people to be vegan is an answer but I'd like to see more people be conscious of where our food comes from and the conditions of the animals.

[ileus]

90. Cows are people too!

[handmade34]

103. Beef Magazine v PETA

I side with PETA

PETA's Mission Statement
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) is the largest animal rights organization in the world, with more than 3 million members and supporters.

PETA focuses its attention on the four areas in which the largest numbers of animals suffer the most intensely for the longest periods of time: on factory farms, in the clothing trade, in laboratories, and in the entertainment industry. We also work on a variety of other issues, including the cruel killing of beavers, birds, and other “pests” as well as cruelty to domesticated animals.

PETA works through public education, cruelty investigations, research, animal rescue, legislation, special events, celebrity involvement, and protest campaigns.



Read more: http://www.peta.org/about-peta/#ixzz2qPJqk18B

[Baclava]

106. Cows to PETA - come and get me punk

[Arcanetrance]

109. Wow those are some long horns

Would not want to have to run from those

[MO_Moderate]

110. Yum

[Baclava]

112. Humans are weak soft insignificant maggots that our children will crush under their hooves

Open up the gates - we dare you

[MO_Moderate]

121. Until then

medium rare please

[Baclava]

128. that was in my best Morbo voice

[MO_Moderate]

130. LOL, good job then

That is exactly who I was thinking about. Puny humans, LOL

[CFLDem]

116. I wonder what it's like

to be crazy enough to believe these fools.



Nm its too scary to fully contemplate.

[athena]

123. It's so much better to hand over your hard-earned cash to the beef industry instead.

ETA: In case you missed it, the article posted was from "Beef Magazine".

[CFLDem]

124. Well duh

The beef industry gives me sustenance and joy with USDA Choice steaks... PETA just provides some occasional entertainment.

[athena]

126. The factory farm industry brings you joy?

I'm always amazed at the level of heartlessness people will admit to on DU.

[CFLDem]

127. No

a sizzling juicy steak gives me joy. Preferably wrapped in applewood smoked bacon (YUM YUM 😍

[athena]

131. I stand by my statement.

The level of heartlessness people will admit to on DU is pretty impressive.

[CFLDem]

132. Well I think it's heartless to not eat the cow.

It died so it could give us sustenance and joy. I'm just respecting its wishes.

[raven mad]

167. I hand as little money as possible to any food corporation -

I hunt. We half-share locally raised cows, pigs and lambs. buy local eggs and chicken. No local cheese yet, but we only drink Alaskan-made beer! We are members of our local community gardens. Give me a good moose roast over a road-tested, pre-frozen, tasteless beef roast any day. Caribou sausage is wonderful; we have local processors.

Those of you who hate factory farms? BUY LOCAL. If we can do it here, it can be done anywhere. Oh, yeah, my greenhouses help - after I get the motorcycle out of the one it stays in once the ice hits the road (in September).

[MrScorpio]

119. Don't fuck with my cheese and ice cream, PETA

Consider that a warning.

[athena]

133. PETA doesn't care what you eat.

Their work is aimed at fighting the factory-farming industry, while raising the consciousness of people who have a conscience.

[flvegan]

137. I almost responded to 1, 2, 3...countless folks in this thread

but there's just too much s****d to find a place to begin.

From "PETA hates pets!" to (I don't have one earthly clue why)"PETA euthanizes animals!" and my favorite, that they're a front to make animal welfare groups look bad. Oh how the fail + facepalm = this thread.

But hey, thanks for keeping them in the current spotlight. They thank you. They're oftentimes idiots, but you all keep the chatter up.

[Skip Intro]

159. PETA gets attention, as does the plight of amimals, by extension.

More power to them!

[Demo_Chris]

138. PETA a some scary people. nt

[yewberry]

141. Why not just link to Breitbart?

I mean, if you really want to post ugly untruths, why not just go all the way and insult the living fuck out of everyone here and not just a small few?

[Skip Intro]

149. beefmagazine.com - ? Gee, that's an unbiased source...

I'm all for Americans turning vegan, there should be a movement out there for that. And there should be a movement and group who puts that issue on the front pages of papers, news sites, and blogs, over and over again.

PETA does it better than anyone.

PETA

[Purveyor]

152. If you know of an 'unbiased source'...let me know as I've not found one yet. eom

[Skip Intro]

156. I suppose they are rare.

Perhaps there aren't any.

Yet it shouldn't go unnoticed that this is a beef industry mag, with a clear interest in maligning PETA.

[quinnox]

153. If I have to choose between PETA and Beef magazine…

it will be Beef magazine every time.

[flvegan]

155. Awesome. Why is that?

[quinnox]

157. I'm not a fan

of Peta. And I like to eat beef. It's just that simple.

[flvegan]

161. So then, ego. Cool.

At least you are honest. Cruelty be damned and fuck the animals they taste good and all that.

"I like" is so...Cheney in these regards. Oh well, cheers!

[Adrahil]

173. Yep.. Animals are tasty. Wig eat them

In fact, LOTS of animals eat other animals. It's like it's part of nature or something.

We should avoid cruelty, of course, and work against cruelty. But that doesn't mean we should stop eating meat, or wish that the institution of pets had never existed. Screw that.

[veganlush]

165. seriously? you don't understand?

Cattle were brought here to exploit for.food, etc.their populations are artifically controlled by humans. If we.stop eating them, factory farmers would stop making them. Their population would drop and only a wild population would exist in africa eventually. If we decided to eat giraffes, brought them here and created millions of them, it would be.the same as we see with cattle now. Making an artificial, captive population just to exploit for food is just wrong.

[Adrahil]

174. Wrong? Based on what?

It seems to me that farming animals is a damned sight better than just decimating wild populations.

Meat eating ain't going away. That's just reality. IMO, organizations like PETA would be far better off working to end unnecessary cruelty in the industry rather than fighting an entirely unrealistic goal.

The fact is, people LIKE meat, I know I do, and they aren't going to give it up in the short term.

[veganlush]

193. future generations will look back

...on history and be amazed at how barbaric we were/are. The meat industry only exists because of the lack of transparency. If the public at large could see what goes on in the dark the "industry" would be doomed.

We have compartmentalized our minds to such an amazing extent, a fact which is interesting in itself, setting aside the issue of barbarism. What else have we blocked out of our consciousness? Why are some animals, such as dogs and cats, placed on pedestals (while on the other side of the world they made be boiled alive for better flavor) and animals such as pigs, who are said by many in science to be smarter than dogs and cats, are subjected to horrific torture at the hands of factory "farmers" all to just provide an inferior diet to clueless humans?

Why do we think we need to confiscate the offspring of cattle to kill them for veal or cheese, then confiscate mother's milk so we can drink a food, well into adulthood, that not only doesn't belong to us but that also isn't good for us and can only be made safer by removing it's ingredients and diluting it with water?

I agree with you that it's going to go on for quite a while because the denial is so strong. I was a meat eater until my upper 20's and didn't go completely cruelty free until 2006 when I gave up dairy and eggs, etc..I know it tastes good and all that but after years without, I have discovered so many better, healthier things to eat and when i look back I am amazed at how small of a menu we used to eat from as meat eaters. Nearly every meal centered around one of the four or five "meats" and there was very little variety.

Now we eat all kinds of different and interesting vegetables arranged in many different recipes and we discover new ones regularly. In the process, my cholesterol has dropped 101 points. (ALL dietary cholesterol comes from dead animal carcasses or bodily fluids). It's going to take some real doing to crack through the staggering denial,and we're being labeled terrorists in some cases for trying to "out" the industry, but I agree with thinkers of the past like Leonardo Divinci and Henry David Thoreau and others that believed that some day the madness will end.

[Adrahil]

195. Maybe some day. But that day is not today. nt

[cinnabonbon]

166. I have no love for PETAs tactics (even though I am for animal rights)

but I'd much rather bash the factory farm industry than them any day.

[RandiFan1290]

175. 4 simple letters

Produce a ton of RW butthurt.

I love PETA!

[Arkana]

183. So they want to save them...by killing them?

How does that make them any better than the "murderers" who eat meat?

[Coyotl]

186. Wouldn't the cattle be happier if the humans chose extinction?

If we are going to apply logic to the problem of animal unhappiness, the obvious solution is get rid of the problem animal!

[G_j]

194. Beef Magazine

[Fearless]

197. That's definitely ethical treatment of animals...

[Glassunion]

198. Factory farming sucks. Period.

PETA, they drive me crazy.

I live in the middle. Don't buy from factory farms, enjoy my food, and love my pets.

[lumpy]

204. I think humans beings suffer and cause plenty of suffering also. What to do...what to do???

Ask Peta