& then we'll wonder why all these people didn't take "personal responsibility" & save for retirement

[kpete]

How Do These Things Happen

The cutting off of unemployment benefits pretty much ensures that the lucky duckies who actually have some money in their retirement accounts are going to be pulling it out (and paying taxes and penalties) as their last desperate move to stay afloat.

And then we'll wonder why all these people didn't take "personal responsibility" and save for their retirement.

by Atrios at 18:44
http://www.eschatonblog.com/2014/01/how-do-these-things-happen.html#disqus_thread

[Demo_Chris]

1. How long should we continue to pay them unemployment?

After a certain length of time is it fair to pay someone laid-off from Goldman Sachs more than we pay someone laid-off from Target?

[jeff47]

2. Until the unemployment rate is low.

Cutting off unemployment doesn't create jobs. It costs jobs. The unemployed are not lazy moochers hoping for a handout. They're desperate people getting paid a fraction of their previous income.

There's no good reason to cut unemployment. There's only cruel and stupid reasons.

[Demo_Chris]

6. Until the unemployment rate is low?

Do you support a regressive tiered system in which those who had the best jobs receive more than those who did not?

In any case, it would be a mistake to assume that because I oppose endless extension than I am in favor of letting the desperate suffer. Unemployment was intended (and only works) as a TEMPORARY benefit to ease the transition between jobs. If we need a long term program, and we do, it should be it's own thing and everyone collection should receive the same amount.

[jeff47]

7. Do you actually know what those people get paid?

Hint: There is a cap on unemployment benefits. Those evil laid off software developers aren't getting paid the fortune you think they are.

Unemployment was intended (and only works) as a TEMPORARY benefit to ease the transition between jobs.

Because........

If we need a long term program, and we do, it should be it's own thing and everyone collection should receive the same amount.

We had several. People like you got annoyed at people staying on them too long. So now they're all gone.

[Demo_Chris]

8. People like me?!

I have no problem with a permanent unconditional benefit so long as everyone gets the same amount. And by unconditional I mean exactly that. But if you are talking long term benefits everyone must receive the same amount.

[jeff47]

9. Yes, people like you.

After all, you seem to think keeping unemployment going is bad, despite having around 3 employees for every opening.

But if you are talking long term benefits everyone must receive the same amount.

And once again, there's a cap on the payment for unemployment. Unless the last job was close to minimum wage, everyone is receiving the same amount.

Btw, you utterly failed to explain why unemployment compensation doesn't "work" if it's too long.

[Demo_Chris]

10. I think any scaled program must be temporary. Not sure what's difficult about this...

Do you think you are permanently entitled to more than someone who only earned minimum wage?

[jeff47]

11. Making the program last until unemployment is below a threshold is not "permanent".

As for making more, again the window is tiny. There are far larger problems to solve, such as the fact that unemployment is still extremely high.

[Demo_Chris]

12. It certainly could be. Why do you keep dodging the question?

Do you think you are permanently entitled to more than someone who only earned minimum wage?

[jeff47]

13. Because it's a dumb question designed to derail the discussion from your plan

of having the unemployed starve.

You are, after all, cutting unemployment because it's been "too long" while there is no back-up program. You've also failed to explain why "too long" is a problem. You also don't seem to understand there's a cap on benefits that means nobody makes significantly more than anyone else on unemployment.

You can tell it's such an attempt because you keep using "permanently entitled", something that you introduced to the discussion.

[el_bryanto]

3. How many people laid off from Goldman Sachs are on unemployment? nt

[Demo_Chris]

4. Substitute ANY higher earning job you like. nt

[adirondacker]

5. I had to pull what little I had left in my 401k last month to keep my power on. I also had to borrow

from a relative to keep my car from getting repo'd and food in my stomach for the month. I have a job offer in the works, but until my first paycheck, it's going to be a struggle. This debacle is absolutely ridiculous for all of us unemployed.

[raven mad]

14. After my layoff, I had it ok.

I had a working spouse and a very ill (Alzheimer's) father-in-law living with us. He wanted to "die at home". With help from neighbors and friends, we made it. However, we spent every penny in our IRA's and 401k's to do so. On top of the pitiful "unemployment" I received for a year.

We lost my sweet father-in-law, and yes, he died at home. We lost the house. We now rent very substandard housing for more than the one paycheck brings in per week. We pay all utilities, including propane to run our stove. I'm 60. He's 62. There's no way back from that. We paid off my father-in-law's debts (medical, a motor home, the funeral). Now we have no savings, no retirement other than SS, one 10-year-old Jeep and a motorcycle we use to save gas.

We planned. We saved. I've been working since the age of 14, full time from 18. My spouse went to work full time at 16.

Nothing left. Between his heart attack and my illnesses, our medical bills are outrageous, and it would actually cost us more to "sign up" than it does through his work, so we settled on $485 a month for basic health care. Huge deductible, high copay. Many, many prescriptions "not on the list".

If I'd been able to collect unemployment a little longer, we might have kept the house. I've sent probably 2000 resumes and have been to a few (literally) interviews. The question that usually defeats me is "When do you plan to retire?". What a laugh! I don't plan on retiring - if only I could get a job!

[dickthegrouch]

15. One of the keys is in the OP

We need to repeal all the penalties for people over 50 who take money money out of 401K or other tax-deferred savings.


We need to kill Capital Gains taxes on selling your house if it's done after a layoff and to "survive".

We need fair-value buy-back plans rather than foreclosure so that the banks do not give away valuable property for pennies on the dollar.

Give the person who earned those benefits some dignity back.

[Le Taz Hot]

16. We used to have a nice little nest egg

for retirement. IRA's, employer retirement and plenty of money in savings. Then my husband's business went under in 2005 and it took him 14 months to find another job -- at $10.00 an hour. Then he got a better job -- a start-up that only lasted for 2 years then it was 3-1/2 years of being out of work. While that was going on, I was able to find ONE job that lasted 1-1/2 years before I just couldn't take, literally, being SCREAMED at by an out-of-control employer and had to quit for my nerves and my health. Took me 3 years to find another temporary job. Then I was laid off for 2-1/2 years when I finally got a temporary part-time job, which turned into a permanent part-time job. Eight years of making jack shit and long-term unemployment pretty much wiped out everything we had in retirement and in savings. Through it all, we managed to hang onto the house but that's all that survived.

We were plenty "personally responsible." Right up until the time the rug was pulled out from under us.