Sheriff rejects popcorn killer’s ‘stand your ground’ defense: ‘Why didn’t he move seats?’

[Katashi_itto]

The sheriff who’s investigating the fatal shooting of a moviegoer this week in Florida said the state’s “stand your ground” defense doesn’t apply in this case, but an attorney said it likely does.

“What most people don’t understand is, the law is not concerned with what started your argument; the law is not concerned about how petty it is,” attorney Stephen Romine told First Coast News. “The law is concerned about the acts between two people — the person who died and the person who did the shooting.”

Retired police captain Curtis Reeves was charged with second-degree murder after he shot 43-year-old Chad Oulson to death Monday afternoon because he refused to stop sending a text message to his 2-year-old daughter’s day care provider.


Reeves told investigators that he feared for his safety when he was struck in the face with an object that investigators determined was popcorn, but his attorney suggested may have been a more dangerous object.

(Likely I suspect it was transfat butters in the popcorn, which have been proven to be more dangerous)

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/17/sheriff-rejects-popcorn-killers-stand-your-ground-defense-why-didnt-he-move-seats/

[OnyxCollie]

1. Stand Your Ground = Cover Your Ass

[DirkGently]

2. Yeah. SYG isn't going to work here.

I think the real problem with SYG laws is not what they actually say -- although the duty to retreat when one can safely do so should be reinstated -- but what people think they say.

Mr. Gun vs. Popcorn is still going to have to show he was in reasonable fear of being killed or seriously hurt, and his vague statement he was afraid after the popcorn flew in a movie theater texting dispute is not likely to cut it with a jury.

I also disagree the context of the fight can't come into play. If the shooter and the victim had been fighting over money owed, or a spouse slept with, that at least would potentially be a scarier situation than a squabble over texting.

But this is the situation people who'd like to see more reasonable gun restrictions worry about. People walking around armed at all times, with the idea in their head that they can start any kind of trouble they want, but should the other person twitch wrong, they get to resolve everything with gunfire and walk away. And if there are no other witnesses, of course, that argument can actually work (with or without SYG laws). The dead guy doesn't get to explain himself.

The law probably won't let this guy get away with murdering someone for texting in a theater. But the fact that a retired cop had it in his head he could shoot whenever the person he was screaming at got angry back is a much bigger problem.

[Kelvin Mace]

4. His argument will be:

I am old, he was young. I though he was going to hit me. He could kill me by simply knocking me down, so I "feared for my life".

And, I am an ex-cop.

He will prevail because, Florida.

[DirkGently]

9. He may argue that. I think he will lose.

But that does point out the problem with the "armed society." People prepared to kill on a moment's notice assume everyone else is likewise a deadly threat. Pretty soon we'll be wearing Kevlar throat armor and practicing our quickdraws in Travis Bickle's mirror.

Florida will of course accept your apology for the casual snark if and when Capt. Textmurder ends up pleading out or convicted.

[Kelvin Mace]

17. I hope you are right

But I fear he will walk.

If his victim were black, it would be a certainty.

My view is has always been that "An armed society may be a polite society, but only as long as you choose who is armed VERY carefully."

[rustydog]

16. Maybe it would wash if he was a retired K-mart employee

or salesman, this guy is a retired cop. He spent his life in dangerous situations.
Now he wants everyone to believe that the argument he started, the argument he LEFT then returned to, surely indicated she was in fear for his life. Bullshit, His police training was working, it didn't retire with his badge.

He has to explain after decades of experience, in a theater where you can see hands when the screen is lit, he mistook a bag of popcorn for a deadly weapon, he mistook the popped kernels for shotgun pellets and was forced to defend himself in a fight he started?....
Doesn't wash with me.

[Sanity Claws]

3. And the judge should have told Zimmerman:

You should have stayed in your car.

[Blue_Tires]

14. +1

or better yet, "Walking along a neighborhood street isn't a crime...Perhaps you should confirm an actual felony is in progress before calling 911 and tracking down the decedent like a half-assed bounty hunter..."

[Barack_America]

5. I hope he does use it.

Highlights perfectly what a horrible and dangerous law it is.

[Lil Missy]

6. That won't work for killing a white guy.

Sorry, but I firmly believe that reason Zimmerman got off because his victim was black.

[Atman]

7. Dude, it was BIG popcorn!

None of that namby-pamby white-kernal pussy popcorn they sell at farmer's markets here in New England. He could have put someone's eye out...with extra butter!

(I'd better add a tag. The Outrage Brigade is probably watching).

[Wait Wut]

8. Awwww...he looks sad.

This is one reason I could never be a cop. He'd be bloody, bruised and crying. He'd also have a picture of a three year old girl stapled to his forehead and 'Fucking POPCORN?' carved into his chest.

And, no, I'm not a violent person...until you harm someone innocent.

[bpj62]

10. Double negative

I think that Reeves will walk. The sheriff has every right to say the SYG does not apply to this case but the judge will be the final say regarding this defense. From what I remember many of the jurors in the Zimmerman case said that the prosecution couldn't prove that George Zimmerman didn't fear for his life. The law is written to make it hard for the prosecution to prove a double negative. If this case reaches trial the first thing Reeves attorney will do is ask for dismissal on SYG. The judge will then make their decision. Please remember that Zimmerman's defense team never raised the SYG defense. This law is a bad law and it puts the victim as well as the prosecution is a very bad spot.

[Blue_Tires]

15. Two jurors essentially admitted to the press that their mind was made up before the trial started...

No evidence or skills of persuasion are enough to overcome prejudiced opinions....

[BarackTheVote]

11. Fear is the opposite of freedom

When people start walking around everywhere with their eyes down, not expressing themselves or standing up for themselves, their rights, and their beliefs, because they are afraid that some nutter will shoot them just for that, that's the death of pretty much all freedom, except the right to bear arms

Damn these people.

[frazzled]

12. It's hard to believe that such a law even exists

Much less that it is being invoked in this very clear case of murder.

We really and truly need to get rid of these laws completely; and we need to change the culture that has allowed "concealed carry" to be the law of the land.

I just want to scream. These problems revolving around the culture of guns are the biggest things we face in this country, and very few care. They're more worked up about the fact that their telephone number might be sitting amongst hundreds of millions of other telephone numbers than that the guy sitting next to them at the movie theater has a lethal weapon in his pocket. I don't get it.

I'm not afraid; I'm furious.

[4Q2u2]

13. Texting?

How frigging loud is texting? It was really bothering him. If it is during the previews the lights are still on. WTF.
Get off my grass gone way too far. Old Crank with prior experience being a ball busting cop.

[angrychair]

18. it what world is this ok

Why would you write a law like this with no duty to retreat? This nutjob picked this fight by walking out of the theater and coming back to his same seats and engaging the victim a second time he was looking for a conflict because he was armed and had no intention of backing down. A gun gave him power he didnt naturally have and he used it. He left, came back and picked it back up again....why not move to a different seat and enjoy your movie and be done with it...nope...gun says i dont have too...he made a choice to re-engage and that choice got soneone killed. This is the ulitimate "blame the victim"...pick a fight...shoot your victim...claim SYG because "the person hit me and i feared for my life...i mean look at my face...*queue tears*" and scene!...shooter home by sundown.