How the Media Makes Men Look Stupid

[RC]

In any case, I would argue that any message—no matter how sneakily or stupidly it’s delivered—implying that one gender is in some way superior to another is bad for all of us. Those idiotic commercials aren’t just unfair to the men who are being belittled as fools, but to the women who raised them, the women who love them, and to the women who are still getting the message that they have to do everything home- and family-related because well just look what happens when you trust a man to do your job. Disaster! They try to glue socks to themselves!

http://www.phillymag.com/news/2012/07/18/empowering-women-work-belittling-men/

"Smart" women and "stupid men" in the media: do women have too much power now?

King of Queens is another example of a burly guy being married to a bombshell, with her working extra hard to make him look dumb:

It's all about her making him look dumb because he forgot to pay the electric bill. She takes the paycheck, she pays the bills, she gets on him about his decisions. Now don't get me wrong. I'm all for equality. What I'm not for is women making men look dumb and bullying men on TV as if that is supposed to be the norm. Men's Activism.org talks about "Man Up" and other empty headed men sitcoms:

And that's the real issue. When did TV decide that empty heads were the hallmarks of manhood, or that anything that smacks of education or cultural refinement was somehow unmasculine? The problem with this trio isn't that they're unmanly; it's that they're morons. And to compound that problem, they're moronic on our TVs.

With any luck, that problem at least should take care of itself.'

http://www.goddiscussion.com/83871/smart-women-and-stupid-men-in-the-media-do-women-have-too-much-power-now/

10 Dumb Lies Women Tell Men

http://www.trutv.com/dumb_as_a_blog/gallery/10-dumb-lies-women-tell-men.html

Selling Stupid Men: Advertising and the Myth of the Incompetent Male

"But advertising exploits men, too! Look how stupid they are in so many commercials! That's as bad as objectifying women!" Yes, it's equally bad. But for the women. Not for the men. And here's why....
[hr]
The Don't Be A Dick rule applies here, to both male and female visitors. My diaries are feminist friendly, so if you want to challenge the foundations of feminism, or claim women aren't oppressed, or insist the discussion be focused on men's problems or needs, or put forth any variety of "Feminism Sucks," do it somewhere else. Please also restrain yourself if you have the desire to tell "women" what "they" should do or think.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/14/1119939/-Selling-Stupid-Men-Advertising-and-the-Myth-of-the-Incompetent-Male

Don't expect me to referee this thread, but I will be checking in now and again, it it goes anywhere.

[Fumesucker]

1. It quotes them?

To be entirely fair, you can make anyone look like an idiot by quoting them.

[redqueen]

2. From a site called "god discussion": "do women have too much power now?"

Really?



And your Daily Kos link? You really should have read it.

...

In all these ads but one, these guys are stupid about ladygirl stuff. Those dumb guys... they just can't feed themselves or their families properly, they fidget like kids at domestic events, and they're clueless and tactless about mysterious women stuff like, say, dieting. At worst women are mildly contemptuous of guys doing that crazy guy stuff, but they're more often fondly tolerant. Though not exhibited in these particular ads, you can also flip channels in your mental TV, and recall ads that show men being stupid about forgetting anniversaries, buying women presents, selecting and using cleaning products, not being able to recognize their own wives when the wife puts on a special make-up or perfume, and so on. Oddly, you almost never see ads focusing on men who are stupid in their professions, stupid at making political decisions, stupid about making decisions on very expensive purchases, stupid about serious subjects, or incompetent at running anything outside the domestic sphere... unless there's another, smarter man in the same commercial.

The only ad that breaks the above pattern is from T-Mobile and features a teenaged girl. She seems to be questioning her mother's definition of "good men," and when she turns to her phone in the end, she's apparently making her own decision. In that sense, the ad can be read as challenging stereotypes. But she's framed very traditionally -- as a (quietly) rebellious teenager who possibly doesn't know what's best for herself. After all, her guy "used to eat pencils," while dad is clearly hard-working enough to afford big toys like riding mowers, and that nice house they're sitting in. Mom stands by her man when his goodness is challenged. The commercial is pitched at the demographic represented by the teenaged girl, and so her subjectivity is showcased (a step up from a lot of other ads), but at the same time she's gently rebuked by a mom who can tell the difference between a "bad" guy, and Good Guys horsing around. Futhermore, her "independence" is established by picking her own guy. And let's think for a moment about the fact that Mom defends Dad and Uncle Joe. In ads where women are objectified or where their intelligence is insulted, do you often see one man contradict another man and tell him that women aren't just sex symbols, or that they're just as smart as men? No... pretty much the only time you see men standing up for women in ads is in stereotypically "gallant" ways, or comparisons in which "my girl is better than your girl."

If you haven't sussed out the overall pattern yet, advertising employs the "Trope of the Stupid Man" in ways that affirm, rather than challenge sexist notions of women's work and women's place. The son who put this commercial collection together for his father thinks that it's men being dissed in these commercials, and he's angry about it. But how stupid is it really to be (or to pretend to be) awful at the sort of work that guys aren't "supposed" to do anyway? And to have the ability to get someone else to do it for you?

How many of you have kids (or roommates) or a spouse who does an assigned chore so badly that it makes you think you might as well just do it for yourself? In my circles, we call that "successful manipulation." Ads are by nature manipulative -- that's their job. So let's take a deeper look at what's going on.

...

It's definitely worth reading.

[geek tragedy]

4. You know what makes men look stupid?

When they whine that women have too much power.

[BainsBane]

13. [phone]

He shoots, and he scores!

[RC]

11. I did and thanks to you, I just won a mental bet with myself.

[geek tragedy]

12. wouldn't that mean you also lost a mental bet with yourself? nt

[redqueen]

14. LOL!

Who do you think you are, the media?

[RC]

17. Nope. You can't even know what the bet was, because I told no one. It was a mental bet.

Because the world is not black and white. In the real world, most men and women are not adversaries. There are quite often mitigating circumstances in disagreements. Some others find out and know about and some we don't.
I have met a few women in real life that would fit in quit well with DU's HoF. They were soon ostracized by everyone else in the group, men as well as women, as being too caustic and dividing. These women blamed their problems on men, usually their ex. Denigrated their ex constantly and more subtlety, men in general. The reality was, they were not very likable people, which fed back to support their warped world view, when they didn't get the sympathy they expected.

And I don't see most things in black and white. Those that see the world in black and white sometimes think I am inconsistent. No, because most things are not either/or, but really are various shades of grey somewhere in between the extremes.
I even taught my children to try to see their differences from the other person's point of view. Understanding the other view point, is not necessarily accepting the other's view point. But properly understanding is paramount to solving problems. Adversarial mind sets quite often do not solve anything. That's what wars are for. Right or wrong, beat your opponent into the ground, correct?

[geek tragedy]

19. but, if "you" made the bet with "yourself", and "you" won, that means "yourself" lost. nt

[BainsBane]

20. "Denigrating their ex"?

You mean like you did in the post Geek Tragedy linked to, where you decided your ex girlfriend was some sort of lesson that applied to everyone in HOF?

I don't recall anyone in HOF talking about ex-partners. I see discussions about feminism. If you have evidence, I suggest you provide links. In fact, of all the time I've spent reading and posting there, I don't think I know anything about anyone's exes.

I will also point out that by not treating members as individuals and instead imagining they are all the same based on some conception in your mead of a group is quite far from understanding another's point of view. It's not even recognizing people as individual human beings.

You wanted a big pity party about how oppressed men are, and it didn't work out as you hoped, so naturally you turn to attacking feminists. If you don't like something GeekTragedy says, address him individually, but projecting your issues onto an entire group is precisely the kind of thing you accuse others are--creating entire groups into adversaries and imagining the world in black and white. I also fail to see how he can be guilty of hating all men when he himself is male.

The issue as hand is not how much you dislike HOF but whether you actually read the content of the article you linked to and how you think it supports your assertion that the media presents men as stupid. Yet somehow you can't stay on the subject of your own OP without engaging in gratuitous attacks against dozens of people not even involved in this thread. Time to start looking in the mirror before you accuse others.

[RC]

25. You totally misread me. What a surprise.

How does the actions of ex-female partners not include feminism, one way or another? What does your ignorance about anyone's ex's have to do with anything I post?

I am not looking for a pity party for anyone here. I posted the OP to show there was another side to the sexism that is all around us. It is part of our society. Both genders are guilty. For some reason that upsets you that I posted something about men as being the victim here. Why? Because I posted some things that shows men as the under dog, instead of your favorite, women as the under dog? Talk about a pity party.

[BainsBane]

26. It doesn't upset me that you posted this at all

In fact, I find it highly entertaining.

What bothers me is that you appear less interested in the subject matter than taking shots at people not in this thread. What does HOF have to do with your OP? You need to get over your grudge. As for denigrating one's ex, evidence of your doing so is right in this thread. Your allegations that HOF members sit around doing that would seem to be unfounded, since you have provided no evidence of it.

Sexism against men is every bit as prevalent as racism against whites. That means it isn't, unless people believe what they see on FOX and read on White Supremacist and MRA websites. Sexism is reinforced by a structure of power. It has nothing to do with a feminist disagreeing with you online or some ex-girlfriend of yours. It's the fact than 1/3 women are raped or beaten by a partner or family member. It's that prosecutors around this nation sweep rape charges under the rug rather than prosecuting, even when told by DOJ that they are in violation of ethical standards, as in a recent report on the Missoula prosecutor's office. It's that only 3 percent of rapes result in jail time, and some of those sentences are as low as thirty days. It's that 40% of female homicide victims are killed by intimate partners. It's unequal pay for equal work. It's that power in govt and the private sector continues to be wielded disproportionately by men. It has absolutely nothing to do with your being pissed off that you are exposed to feminist views on a message board.

[RC]

29. Because I knew when I posted that, who would show up to disparage what I posted.

and I was correct. You wouldn't agree with me even if i said the sky is blue, the grass is green and water is wet. Your post #26 is proof.

What you don't seem to realize is that other people are reading this thread. They may not jump in, but you have to know they are forming their own opinions of what is posted in this thread and of the posters themselves.

I started this thread. It is my thread. The subject matter was "How the Media Makes Men Look Stupid" How did you address that? You did it by adding to a small pile-on, ignoring the OP subject and running me down, correct? I would expect no less.

[muriel_volestrangler]

31. What you posted shows you are a troll

You post something sexist, so that people will reply. You then pat yourself on the back, and proceed to smear a DU group with a series of insults, once you've got them reading it.

"I started this thread. It is my thread."

Good of you to take responsibility for this pile of shit. It's the first responsible thing you've done in the thread.

[pinboy3niner]

32. +1

I like the cut of your jib!

[RC]

35. Well, in that case, you are making my case better than I did.

Some of the replying posts you are talking about, stand for themselves. You even quoted me out of context. Good show.
Me posting something that show men being depicted as not being very bright, is sexist is and make me a troll, but when regularly posted OP's by others posting in this thread, disparaging most men in the world, by association and by being born male, that is OK?
None are so blind as those that won't see.

You know that the discussion could have centered around the content of TV shows and movies. But it got derailed pretty quick, now didn't it. Surprise, surprise!
I wonder how this thread would have gone If I were a woman? Much differently, I bet.

[muriel_volestrangler]

37. What makes you a troll is saying the following

that people who would fit in a DU group are:
"too caustic and dividing"
"not very likable people"
have a "warped world view"

and it is clear that you started this thread to attract a few people from that group (hence your "I won a bet with myself" stuff), and then you proceeded to insult them - and don't pretend that saying "people like this would fit in well in the group" is not really insulting the DUers themselves. If I say the kind of person you're likely to agree with is a sexist troll who has an obsession with a DU group he was rightly banned from, it's pretty obvious I'm saying it about you.

So you wrote something to attract people to disagree with it, and then insulted them. That is classic trolling. Ironically, you are caustic and dividing, and you see things in black and white. But mainly, you like to troll.

All redqueen did was point out the source and content of your links, and then you replied to her "thanks to you, I just won a mental bet with myself". This actually shows you weren't waiting for a discussion of your OP - you were waiting for redqueen, or someone like her, to reply, and you didn't give a toss what she actually posted.

"I wonder how this thread would have gone If I were a woman? Much differently, I bet." Now, that's what I call a pity party.

[geek tragedy]

27. yes, tee-vee shows showing men not good at housework is totally the same

as having the Catholic church trying to defund women's health care, several state legislatures trying to regulate women's reproductive systems and shut down women's health care clinics, representatives in Congress proprosing IRS RAPE AUDITS for women seeking abortions, continued economic and political inequality, and the continuing problem of sexual assault and rape culture.

[geek tragedy]

22. yeah, those bitter people who obsess on past relationships gone bad and project their issues

on the opposite gender.

These women blamed their problems on men, usually their ex. Denigrated their ex constantly and more subtlety, men in general. The reality was, they were not very likable people, which fed back to support their warped world view, when they didn't get the sympathy they expected.

Say, are you getting the sympathy you expected in this thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=32095

I know what I am talking about here. I was in a relationship once (Just once) where i thought everything was just fine for several years. And every this was good. Then the mind games started. I had trouble accepting, as in, wrapping my mind around, what she was doing. There was a 3 minute Dating party, that fell through for her, only because 2 men she had invited, failed to show up. The party itself went fine. A couple of other times we went shopping for whatever. The real reason being, so she could scope out a salesman she was interested in. Or the weekend I went to visit my Dad, who lived 200 miles away. She ask me to pickup some brand of coffee they did not sell in Fargo. She chose this weekend to entertain her new boyfriend. I found out when I got back. Then there was all the piddly stuff in between, I have since forgotten.

This was the only women I needed counseling to uncouple from. I had trouble believing anyone could treat anyone else with this level of disrespect, when I had done nothing to deserve it.

Why was she like this? Because she had been in an emotionally and physically abusive, 20 year marriage and she absolutely refused to get help, counseling. I even offered to pay for it. No dice. And I am sure that my first name and he ex's first name being the same, didn't help any.

I paid the price, as did several other men she dated. She could only hold it together for so long, till the pressure built up. What made it worse was she could not let go of me because I treated her with respect. I specifically ask her once and she told me there were 3 or 4 men that treated her well, as I did. I don't emotionally abuse people. That is not my nature.
She would call me many months or even a year later, wanting to see me again. She was a good talker. This one relationship has made me sensitive to the danger signs. (There is a group here on DU loudly posting with those danger signs.)

Just because the women in the HoF, for whatever reason, remind you of your ex does not mean they are the ones with the problem.

Understand?

[treestar]

40. Exactly, it's an old joke that men can't handle domestic matters

Like Fred and Ricky in the kitchen. It's supposed to flatter women that they are good at something.

[geek tragedy]

3. "do women have too much power now?"

[MineralMan]

5. The media makes everyone look stupid.

That's because the media is stupid. Doesn't mean shit!

[Beach Rat]

6. Speaking-as a man-

I don't need any assistance in looking stupid. I can accomplish that on my own very nicely thank you.

[redqueen]

7. Whoa, I almost missed "10 Dumb Lies Women Tell Men"

Some seriously insightful commentary there

You sure that wasn't meant for the Lounge? Shit like that usually flies in there.

[geek tragedy]

10. doesn't this poster tell certain feminists that they're projecting their personal

emotional issues into political/sociological discussions?

[redqueen]

15. Is it?

Wouldn't surprise me.

[geek tragedy]

16. yep. the below was submitted without irony (or self-awareness)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=32095

P

Part six: I'm Sorry That You Are in Pain, But Please Stop Taking It Out on Men

Explaining why some women are their own worst enemy, when it comes to relationships.

Most of us men are NOT the problem, until you make it self-fulfilling. Stop painting the men you come across with a broad brush. We are as individual as women are. If all, or most of the men in your life treat you badly, for whatever reason, you should go look in the mirror for that reason. Either you are looking in the wrong places for men friends/relationships, or... You are the problem and they are just reacting to the way YOU are treating them.

I know what I am talking about here. I was in a relationship once (Just once) where i thought everything was just fine for several years. And every this was good. Then the mind games started. I had trouble accepting, as in, wrapping my mind around, what she was doing. There was a 3 minute Dating party, that fell through for her, only because 2 men she had invited, failed to show up. The party itself went fine. A couple of other times we went shopping for whatever. The real reason being, so she could scope out a salesman she was interested in. Or the weekend I went to visit my Dad, who lived 200 miles away. She ask me to pickup some brand of coffee they did not sell in Fargo. She chose this weekend to entertain her new boyfriend. I found out when I got back. Then there was all the piddly stuff in between, I have since forgotten.
This was the only women I needed counseling to uncouple from. I had trouble believing anyone could treat anyone else with this level of disrespect, when I had done nothing to deserve it.
Why was she like this? Because she had been in an emotionally and physically abusive, 20 year marriage and she absolutely refused to get help, counseling. I even offered to pay for it. No dice. And I am sure that my first name and he ex's first name being the same, didn't help any.
I paid the price, as did several other men she dated. She could only hold it together for so long, till the pressure built up. What made it worse was she could not let go of me because I treated her with respect. I specifically ask her once and she told me there were 3 or 4 men that treated her well, as I did. I don't emotionally abuse people. That is not my nature.
She would call me many months or even a year later, wanting to see me again. She was a good talker. This one relationship has made me sensitive to the danger signs. (There is a group here on DU loudly posting with those danger signs.) My advantage is, I see people as individuals. Women are people. Men are people. All people are individuals.

Now back to the modified excerpt: When one person with unresolved issues gets into a relationship, they spread their damage, their baggage, to the other person. It takes a toll on the other person. Now we have two people with problems. All too often, after the breakup, they think they are now OK because the relationship is over. Or 5 years has passed, or whatever. No so. The damage stays with both of them, because they are in denial of even having a problem. It is always the other person/people that has the problem. The baggage builds. Now we have two people in denial spreading their dysfunctions on to others. And back and forth it goes between the genders, as each gets into another relationship. Each always blaming the other gender, the other person, as being the problem. The broad brush --

There is help out there. More people should take advantage of it.

[RC]

18. Thank you for posting that.

[treestar]

41. I went and read that

Misogynistic.

[Spider Jerusalem]

8. ...

sorry, but "the media portray men as stupid"...but what do these sitcoms and TV adverts and so on portray men as being stupid ABOUT? As being clueless about housework and domestic things which reinforces the dominant cultural narrative of traditional gender roles that some things are "women' work".

[Orrex]

21. That's an interesting response.

Kind of grabs the question behind the question.

[geek tragedy]

23. Yeah, when we see men being shown as incompetent with household finances then

I'll start buying this as a relevant thing.

[raven mad]

24. Agreed. Very much so.

We rarely have "regular" television on, but as we do not have cable or satellite (strictly on antenna feed), occasionally it's on just for noise. Until I get pissed off and start throwing pillows at the screen.

My husband knows to stay out of "my" kitchen (he's a good cook, but I love it and it shows)! I don't ask him to run the vacuum cleaner, mop the floors, clean the litter boxes, take out the trash - he just sees the need and does it. It's always been this way with him (since 1969).

He's highly intelligent, has an amazing sense of humor, never fails to help others in need, and besides all that - can handle a motorcycle like a pro. (He teaches Motorcycle Safety Foundation courses.) We're both voracious readers of many different genres - from biographies to science fiction.

So I see these "stupid men" commercials, sitcoms (???? they're supposed to be funny??? NOT), even some dramas - and I wonder who the FUCK is writing this steaming pile of bullshit?

Must be a bunch of 10-year-olds.

[bettyellen]

33. exactly right. and if you counted, there are just as many stupid women characters on TV- always have

been. they are a staple of comedy.
I grew up in a family that perpetuated these stereotypes, and they hoped I would cook and clean for my brothers (along with school and work) LOL. I moved out ASAP, but they stayed home till their 40's because Mom waited on them.

[Egalitarian Thug]

9. Nah, we do a superior job of it all on our own. n/t

[RC]

30. Please post the entire alert message.

I'm sure we all would like to see it.

[Quantess]

38. Here you go...

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"Don't expect me to referee this thread,"

Posted a bunch of sexist crap from "god discusssion" site as hit and run flamebait. This makes DU suck.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jan 17, 2014, 06:23 PM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If this had been alerted before a whole bunch of responses I probably would have voted to hide but it looks like RQ and GT are handling the dumb shit pretty well so let it ride?
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I vote to leave it alone. Why? Because once again, RC shows his hand.

It's clear that he is interested in expressing his hostility to women.

Why hide his bigot flag?
Instead, he should be kicked off DU as a sexist troll. Just like we would do if he were playing the exact same games, only with race.
Sincerely,
Blanche
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The sources run the gamut of extreme ends of this topic. From the god discussion to the dkos discussion about how negative portrayals of men are really actually negative portrayals of women.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Yes, these threads make DU suck billy goat balls, but there is nothing hideworthy here. Just annoying, and that's not enough.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[etherealtruth]

42. The comments are certainly not flattery to the OP n/t

[Ohio Joe]

34. 'Don't expect me to referee this flamebait but I will be amused by it'

There... Fixed that part for you.

[oberliner]

36. Definitely noticed this in commercials

Idiot male - clever female cleaning up his mess, or doing something better than him, or outwitting him in some way. That seems to be a very prominent theme in a lot of ads. Also on sitcoms.

[treestar]

39. It's comedy

The men are acting silly, to entertain, and so are the women. It doesn't mean much.