I often wonder if he were Caucasian with a different name

[madokie]

What many who dislike our President would think of him today

[Romulox]

1. Clinton was impeached. nt

[Art_from_Ark]

3. And Carter was trashed in the media

[madokie]

80. They pretty much did to Carter what they're doing to Obama now

same with the big dog.
I really really dislike republicons, almost to the point of hatred. I fight that feeling as I don't really want to go there.

[cali]

4. back to the despicable tactic of broadly hinting that people who don't support the President

in every fucking particular, are nothing but racists.

Contemptible shit.

[JaneyVee]

18. I don't think that's the posters intention, I think poster is

Saying that imagine how the narrative of the opposition such as the tea party and other groups would be different. Obama faces a barrage of racism like no other president in history. Asking for birth certificates, suggesting he's a Kenyan Muslim, not to mention just outright racism from the rightwing. Imagine he was white and all those talking points were moot.

[LondonReign2]

26. Ayup

It's like clockwork. Gotta throw out the bullshit race card with regularity.

[Lizzie Poppet]

31. Well said.

Are there racists among the president's opposition. Sure...that's obvious. But is the majority of opposition to the president the result of racism? No fucking way. As has been pointed out, conservative opposition to liberal white presidents has been no less vociferous.

[cali]

2. I don't dislike him. I find him extremely likable. I think he's probably a good human being

and that makes it even more upsetting to me that he's done things like support so many corporate giveaways and things like the surge, extending the bush tax cuts, and on and on.

[treestar]

7. LOL

[Puglover]

19. Wow Cali!

The cloddish sophomoric post right under yours has gotta sting like the dickens.

[cali]

20. yeah, there's nothing like smilies to wound one.

How are things in your lovely neck of the woods?

[Puglover]

34. Down at our place in Ecuador.

Playing in the garden, marinating in the beauty. So wonderful.

And Rachel is streaming flawlessly. Life is good.

And I hope the same as you Cali.

[Union Scribe]

54. They might as well rename the rofl smiley

the "I'm trying to passive-aggressively dismiss and mock you but I hope you can't tell how angry I am, and frustrated by my inability to counter what you said so I'll post a bunch of these instead" smiley. I guess that's a lot to type though.

[Puglover]

65. ...

[treestar]

66. No, it's hilarious that the board's chief Obama hater

actually claims to like him. Like a person who never does anything right and supports the TPP? OMG! How could one like such a person?

[laundry_queen]

69. And again, you guys are unable to separate disagreement with issues and 'hate'.

Some DUers' brains actually progressed past 5th grade and can differentiate between the 2.

[treestar]

71. The 5th grade is where you learn all about politics and how

if things are not done as you like it, you put up 17 posts per day on the intertubz about how awful and disappointing the President is?

[laundry_queen]

72. Projection. It's where it's at. nt

[Puglover]

74. Nice try there.

Cali doesn't hate President Obama any more then I do. I know that as does most any one reading this ST.

Seems to be your sole idea for a rejoinder on DU Treestar. "You hate Obama." "You hate Democrats."

FYI It is weak and pitiful sauce.

Thankfully I can't even imagine where you are coming from.

But I can at least say something positive to you.

I am glad you vote for Democrats.

[QC]

75. You never really loved him!!!1

Yes, some people really do think that's a serious argument.

[Puglover]

76. Frankly QC I would

rather read the directions on a bottle of Drano then engage in this idiotic juvenile crap.

But calling Cali the "Chief Obama Hater on this board" was simply hyperbolic horseshit.

[QC]

78. Oh well, it's marginally better than shouting at a lesbian DUer,

"You have plenty of rights."

Baby steps, you know.

[Puglover]

79. ...

[libodem]

86. That thing is vicious

Truly, 'I'm laughing AT you with derision' and not with you in joy.

I'm starting to dislike the little SOB. I've seen it used to mock and deflect the serious intent to cause harm, by some real smart ass jerks, over the years.

[treestar]

5. He would be the greatest President ever and would have gotten a D Congress throughout

Though on the other hand, I think then he might not be who he is.

[quinnox]

8. I would think mostly the same as far as policies go, and probably think less of him if he were

a white guy. Because I do think the fact he is black was a good thing for America to elect him. A step forward. If he had been white, I couldn't say that.

[onehandle]

9. You need to add 'and was from a silver spoon family.' They hated Clinton because he grew up poor. nt

[BuelahWitch]

10. Bill Clinton was treated like shit

Too bad you have such a poor memory.

[Baitball Blogger]

36. Erm...but Clinton left himself wide open with a personal character flaw.

And then there's Whitewater, which did get a few prosecutions.

And then there was that whole thing about questionable pardons for questionable people.

Obama is just...well, black.

Don't you see what's going on here?

[treestar]

67. But they did believe he was born in the US

and when they went after him, it was something he indeed did do (canoodling with Monica).

Nobody shouted "you lie" on the Congress floor, no one would dare do such a thing to a President, no matter how much they opposed him.

When he had opposing congresses, did they filibuster every single bill/point/nominee?

They lifted the debt ceiling - maybe they just hadn't thought of that yet.

[JHB]

96. They accused him of drug smuggling and running a Murder Inc.

The "Clinton body count" was as much an article of faith among the rabid as birtherism, and it also had a constant stream of RW politicians telling the foaming faithful what they wanted to hear about it just like they do today with the birthers.

Yes, they've gone even farther now -- thanks to them having proven it was a winning formula in all the ways they really care about: blocking or severely constraining liberal policies, firing up their fanatic base, and getting that base to funnel cash into their pockets.

They're pushing the same tactics farther, but they are the same tactics! The difference is the degree, not the basic nature of the attacks.

[Mike Nelson]

11. Maybe they would accuse him...

...of rape, murder, drug-running and base TV shows on defeating him with no holds barred (America Held Hostage aka Nightline, FOX "News&quot ... They couldn't call him a Muslim from Kenya, but they would find other terms.

[Autumn]

12. You mean if he looked like Clinton and was named James?

Yeah that's the ticket. Cause you do know Clinton and Carter got all the respect in the world.

[kelliekat44]

15. One thing both Clinton and Carter had in common...

they both befriended blacks and the poor....that's enough to make you hated by many people in the US

[JHB]

13. Please list the ways that this is different than with Clinton.

It's the same playbook.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

24. Birtherism.

The Republicans hated Clinton just as much as Obama, but they didn't pretend he wasn't American.

I don't think their hatred of Obama is racist, but I do think their denial that he's an American is probably to do with the colour of his skin.

[JHB]

38. They insinuated he'd renounced his citizenship and was recruited by the KGB...

...and they harped that he wasn't "really" the president because in 1992 he merely got a plurality of the popular vote, not a majority. (They were going to make that argument again in 2000 if Bush got the popular but Gore the electoral. It vanished the moment that Gore won the popular.)

So they attacked his legitimacy, his citizenship, and his loyalties.

If they could have hinged those lines of attack on a single claim, there would have been Clinton birtherism. They swallowed plenty of other bullshit about him, and were always eager for more.

[Gormy Cuss]

29. Clinton's nationality was never questioned.

And that is straight up related to Obama's race. His father was an African, his stepfather was an Asian Muslim, etc --- all just acceptable ways to heap racial bigotry on top of the standard diss-the-opposition plays.

That's how it's different and it's not a subtle difference.

[JHB]

43. Actually, it was. At least Clinton's citizenship, which they claimed he renounced.

Racism focuses their foam, and is a major ingredient as to why they swallow so much bullshit like it was chocolate, so that part is more intense, but it's still the same playbook they used under Clinton.

[Gormy Cuss]

63. Right, but only the rumor that he tried to renounce it.

Very different from claiming that he wasn't born a citizen. It also wasn't a rumor that had legs. It was discarded by the time Clinton was elected. The birther nonsense didn't go away.

[treestar]

73. The first President to be asked to produce his birth certificate!

come to think of it, they all should. And the Veep candidates.

But then when he did it, they still stuck by birtherism! Still! And came up with fancy theories about his father's citizenship.

[JHB]

85. I'll see you the birth certificate and raise you the "Clinton death count" n/t

If Hillary runs in 2016, they will find a way to link Vince Foster's suicide and Bengazi.

[JoePhilly]

41. YOU LIE.

Only took two words.

[JHB]

55. I failed mind-reading in school, but assuming you mean that twerk who...

...shouted out during the SOTUA, to me that wasn't different, more of an escalation thanks to them having spent two decades now breathing in nothing but each others' hot air and flattulae.

Look, racism is definitely one of the fuels for their foam-fest, but they've built an entire political culture (and more importantly, fundraising industry) on despising anyone not on their team as loathsome, degenerate traitors to the nation who are just hankering to turn us into a Stalinist police state.

They would be spouting some form of this bullshit about any Democrat (or even insufficiently-conservative Republican) in the White House.

[JoePhilly]

58. Well done. That is in fact what I was referring to.

How about this one ... a Supreme Court justice shaking his head and mouthing the words ... "not true" during a SOTU speech. I don't recall anything like that before either.

Or maybe this ... I'm trying to recall the rise of a racist right wing group like the Tea Party, while Clinton was President. Was there one?

A Congress that has more than doubled the number of filibusters?

Its all of the same crap that a white Democrat would receive, and then a whole bunch more because he's a lessor being, an illegitimate, angry black thug.

[JHB]

90. I think we're arguing about octane levels in the fuel

We agree that both racism and conservative scorched-earthism are at play here. You attribute a higher percentage to racism, I think that doesn't give enough credit to how far the scorched-eartherism has taken root and grown.

Would you concur with that characterization and agree to disagree?

[treestar]

68. No trumped up scandals made out of nothing

Clinton got himself into his scandals. At least he'd done something to deserve some scrutiny.

IRS, Fast and Furious, Benghazi, nobody questioned Clinton about that level of occurrence.

[JHB]

84. You're joking, right? Vince Foster, "wag the dog", travelgate,...

...the "Clinton $400 haircut delays air travelers" "scandal", even Whitewater itself. And that's not getting into the fringier ones like the "Clinton body count", the allegations that he was in on drug smuggling through the Mena airfield, "The Clinton Chronicles", etc. etc. etc.

They counted as a "Clinton scandal" China's upgrades to its nuclear arsenal using secrets they had obtained during Reagan & Bush's terms.

No axe-grinding rumor promulgated by old White Citizens Council guys (his enemies in Arkansas politics) went unexamined for use nationally.

From "renounced his citizenship" to "trashed the White House" they threw ball after ball of elephant dung at him hoping some would stick, and what didn't stick would pile up around him so they could point to the cloud of steam rising from it and say "y'know, where there's smoke..."

Clinton's personal peccadilloes finally gave them something they could latch onto legally, but it didn't happen out of the blue. It was the constant stream of "scandals" that were either pure bullshit or blown-up petty stuff (and of which Republicans partake just as freely) fanned by conservative news media that painted Bill (and Hillary) as radical-leftist Al Capones that just had to be taken down, even if all you could get on him was tax evasion.

To claim that "No trumped up scandals made out of nothing" about Clinton is just mind-bogglingly ignorant.

[treestar]

87. there was still at least a little of something there in each one

something they could latch onto for a while.

[JHB]

89. What were they latching onto in four investigations of Vince Foster's suicide?

They latched onto the same amount of "at least a little something" as they have for the IRS, Fast & Furious, and Benghazi. They'll latch onto anything, real, imagined, or invented.

[Boomerproud]

94. He raped Juanita B. too-remember.

In Arkansas they actually had billboards that told people to call a 1-800 number if Bill Clinton had sexually assaulted them.

Wasn't right then, isn't right now.

[JHB]

95. Please tell me you left off the "They claimed he..." n/t

[avebury]

14. He is a Democrat, that is all

the idiots need to know.

[JaneyVee]

16. He would be on Mt. Rushmore by now.

[cali]

17. of course that isn't true, but can you succinctly state what he's done that you think merits him

such accolades?

[JaneyVee]

21. Reversing a financial meltdown, ending the Iraq war, getting OBL,

Expanded access to healthcare, rescuing the US auto industry, defender of civil rights, ended DADT & DOMA, toppled Gaddafi, ended torture, etc etc etc.

[cali]

30. OK. The Economic recovery that isn't. I'll give you expanded healthcare coverage although

I think it's too early to judge the ACA on its merits. It's ridiculous to claim that the admin rescued the auto industry. the plan to shut down the Iraq war was underway when he came into office.

DADT and DOMA were hardly exercises in courage. He waited until it was safe as houses to endorse. Libya is a nightmare and the mentality that YOU have that the U.S. has the right to go around playing universal cowboy/cop is just wrong. Ended torture? Maybe.

Drones. Expanded our misadventure in Afghanistan. Extended Bush tax cut. Rewarded corporations and banks for ripping off the American people. The TPP. The TPIP. War on whistleblowers, secret kill lists.

[Lizzie Poppet]

33. But the economic recovery has been spectacular...

...if you're part of the 1%

[JaneyVee]

39. Shedding 800K jobs a month vs. 5 yrs of job growth, millions with access

To healthcare, rescued US auto industry, defender of civil rights even on a judicial level from voting laws to equality laws to equal pay laws, OBL was #1 on the FBI most wanted list, yes ended torture. Yes he extended Bush tax cuts while raising taxes on the rich, he ran on expanding Afghan war even though I'm against it it's no surprise there, and I'm against the TPP.

Meanwhile, 2 on Mt.Rushmore believed Blacks were 3/5th of a person, wouldn't let women vote, and killed hundreds of thousands of foreign enemies.

[MannyGoldstein]

22. I look forward to a day when Americans can even elect a black president

It will not be in our lifetime, nor in our children's lifetime. But it will happen.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

25. Wait, what?

Is that irony? Or a reference to the fact that one of Obama's parents was white? Or have I missed the point completely?

[MannyGoldstein]

35. Wait, he's... BLACK?! We'll I'll be damned.

Irony/sarcasm. I'm sure that racism exists, but if Obama was able to get elected president, and had such high approval ratings as he took office...

[Donald Ian Rankin]

37. ...then slightly over 50% of the population can't be too racist to vote for a black man.

But most of the most racist white Americans would never vote for a Democrat either.

And most white racist republicans don't just think "all black people are evil", their prejudices are more nuanced than that, and wouldn't generally make them less likely to vote for someone rich and religious with similar far-right views to theirs on account of their skin colour (c.f. Cain, West etc).

[MannyGoldstein]

44. Obama's approval rating started at well over 60%

Now around 40%.

I think this is easily explained by Obama's love of the wealthy at the expense of the rest of us. People are figuring it out as time goes on and our lot in life keeps dropping, dropping.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

46. Don't all presidents lose approval rating over their term?

And, more generally, all parties.

Here's a very standard piece of history, presented in a shape that makes a point:

1944,1948: Democrats won.
1952,1956: Republicans won
1960,1964: Democrats won
1968,1972: Republicans won
1976,1980: Democrats won, then a very charismatic Republican beat a weak Democrat
1984,1988: Republicans won
1992,1996: Democrats won
2000,2004: Republicans won
2008,2012: Democrats won

[MannyGoldstein]

48. IIRC, Reagan, Clinton, and Dim Son were substantially higher at this point. nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

51. 66% of that doesn't surprise me.

Reagan and Clinton were the two most charismatic presidents since Kennedy.

Bush? Well, c'est la vie, I guess. But I must confess, that makes me even more glad I'm British and not American.

[MannyGoldstein]

60. You're right

Had to look it up, Reagan/Clinton way higher, Bush a little lower than Obama:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/28/obama-approval-higher-than-bush-but-lower-than-clinton-reagan/

Good call.

On the other hand, the economy was better under all of those presidents than it is today. Working Americans are finally realizing that we're being served up for dinner to the Predator Class by its politicians.

[JoePhilly]

42. Same argument Rush Limbaugh makes.

Obama won, so racism is over.

[MannyGoldstein]

45. OK, I'm busted.

Can we keep it just our little secret? There's a Viagra-fueled trip to Dominica in it for you.

Deal?

[cherokeeprogressive]

53. Much less REELECT a black president to a SECOND TERM... amiright?

[treestar]

70. And he is treated normally

not filibustered any more than usual, respected enough that opponents don't feel free to yell "you lie!" at the SOTU, nominees approved as normal, birth in US accepted blindly, as it has up till now and still is for Mittens and any other white guy who'd run. And not called a "disappointment" for not getting it all immediately.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

23. It's impossible to know, because there's never been a white Democratic presi... hey, wait a minute!

What the Republicans *did* do to Clinton was massive, irrational, bile-fueled hatred. So I don't think they'd hate Obama any less if he were white.

What the Republicans *didn't* do to Clinton was question where he was born, or argue that he wasn't an American. I think it probable that the main reason for the birther furore is the deep-seated instinct that "American" means "white", and that if Obama were white his birthplace would have been questioned far less.

[countingbluecars]

27. There would be no tea party

if he were Caucasian with a different name.

[DemocraticWing]

28. Republicans would still hate him, but maybe some wouldn't as much.

I doubt too many of them would suddenly support liberal policies if the President were white.

Critics on the left are, by and large, definitely not racist. Supporting somebody and then being disappointed when they don't live up to your ideals is pretty common with every candidate, not just Obama. We've had a white Obama, his name was Bill Clinton, and I like both and have similar criticisms for both of them.

[OnionPatch]

56. Yep. They'd still hate him. He's a Democrat, after all.

They wouldn't hate him as much, I agree. But they would still hate him just like they hate the Clintons and Nancy Pelosi and anyone else with a D after their name. But that doesn't mean there isn't racism involved. A big reason why teabaggers hate Dems in the first place is because they think we all want to "give their hard earned money to the blacks".

[Zorra]

32. The left would feel exactly the same about him as we do now.

It is primarily his business friendly neoliberalism that makes causes us our distrust of him.

It was the same primary issue we had with President Clinton.

[Nye Bevan]

40. A few people would like him more; a few people would dislike him more.

But for the vast majority of us it would make no difference.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

47. I think it would make more difference than you might think.

It wouldn't make him a better or worse president or person, but it would make him a much less significant historical figure.

How many other baseball players who played at the same time and to the same standard as Jackie Robinson can you name?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

49. I don't know....."Bill Clinton" was about as caucasian sounding as you could get.

And yet they trashed him, too. Impeached him for the most frivolous of reasons. Hounded him with fake scandal after fake scandal. Called him a socialist and communist.


Of course, I still believe the President's race and last name add more fuel to the already strongly burning fire of hate from the right. Just one more excuse to hate him.

[Cleita]

50. They would consider him a Republican. Probably he would have run

as an Eisenhower Republican because that party would have run him for President something they would never do for a black candidate. As a black Republican he would have remained a senator and being the smart man he is, he knew that. Just my theory. You can take it with a grain of salt.

[polichick]

52. Racists might like him better.

[Renew Deal]

57. Bill Clinton

[TransitJohn]

59. They do this shit to every Democrat, going back to Woodrow Wilson. eom

n/t

[treestar]

83. not so

http://www.upworthy.com/they-did-it-86-times-to-every-other-president-combined-82-times-to-obama-alone-6

[TransitJohn]

97. So you're limiting the discussion to filibusters, alone?

That wasn't my understanding of the OP. But thanks for pointing out POTUS' specialness.

[karynnj]

61. The vast majority would think the same - but just use different words.

Note that there is a very high correlation between people who dislike Clinton (either) and Obama. In the 1990s, they spoke of Arkansas in terms as nasty as ones used for Obama. You can't get eliter, whiter, male than John Kerry, direct descendant of MA Governor Winthrop - who Reagan quoted speaking of the "City on the Hill". Yet, if you remember, he was thoroughly trashed by the same people.

The common thread - they don't like Democrats and they repeat and exaggerate the slurs of their talk radio.

[Armstead]

62. He'd be considered mediocre

[840high]

64. Yep.

[liberal_at_heart]

77. I don't know. They hated Bill Clinton with a passion too. They fear anything that is different

than they are.

[Prophet 451]

81. I honestly think it would be much the same

Now, that's not to say that the racial element hasn't added some heat to things. There wouldn't be Birthers if his name was Bob Smith, for example. But the problem would be the same. There used to be a divide between the mainstream right and the crazy right but during the Clinton and Bush presidencies, that divide was eroded away, leaving the crazy right in charge and with control of all the media power of the old mainstream right.

Clinton was impeached for getting a blowjob. Carter was all but crucified by the same media that pretty much worships Reagan. Obama is the victim of the radicalization of teh Republican base and I think it would have been much teh same with any Democrat in charge.

[AverageJoe90]

82. He'd still likely be trashed & ridiculed, no doubt.

Though some of the absolute worst vitriol wouldn't quite be there; racism & other prejudices, sadly, really did play a major role in the rise of the Teathuglicans. Even if Prez O. was Jewish he wouldn't receive quite as much distilled hatred & loathing as he does.

[Rex]

88. Something different than what they think now.

I'm sure I will get yelled at for saying, 'of course'...but of course it would make a difference. Racists came out of the woodworks to let me know how much they hate the POTUS...people I never even knew were racist.

Of course, America is still an extremely racist nation. The GOP has had an openly racist primary policy (will not work with, obstuct at every turn) toward the POTUS since he was sworn in the first time. Foxnews HATES him.

[applegrove]

91. Oh they would go after his record. But not as hard. If people were given a chance to

see Obama for who he is, a great and decent and authentic man, they would love him. And if people in Red states let someone who is black into their hearts the GOP would lose their whole election strategy. That is why the GOP promotes "birthers" and any group that is hateful to Obama in a way that is racist. They have to keep their racist base primed.

[Lost_Count]

92. About the same as they do now...

The vast majority of people who dislike him or his policies do it for a reason other than race.

[sakabatou]

93. Well, his first name could be Hebrew

Barakh = Lightning

As for his last name, I don't know. It could possibly be "high place." Therefore his full name would be "lighting from a high place."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

98. If he still had the same policies, I'd still think him a "centrist" rather than a progressive.