"Bricks and mortar" stores suck. Amazon rocks.

[Nye Bevan]

I wanted to buy a small steam cleaner and get it today if possible. Now, that's the kind of purchase for which traditional stores should be at an advantage; for anything you don't need right away, Amazon is pretty much unbeatable, as you will get your item in a couple of days (no shipping charge, as I am an Amazon Prime member) at a price that is almost always better than the bricks and mortar stores. So I started checking the sites of Home Depot, Target, etc. to see if any local store had the item in stock. Time after time I found "not sold in stores"; "available online only", "can be ordered for in-store pickup in 5-7 business days". Seriously? 5-7 business days? When Amazon will deliver the item to my doorstep on Tuesday at a much better price? Don't these traditional stores have any comprehension of what they are competing against and what their business model has to be in order to survive?

We are witnessing the extinction of the dinosaurs. Best Buy stock is down 40% this month on "disappointing" sales numbers; if they can't or won't comprehend the Amazon era, they will go the way of Borders.

BTW I gave up on getting my item today and ordered it from Amazon for Tuesday delivery.

[dlwickham]

1. and this commercial message has been brought to you by...

[Nye Bevan]

2. Hey. How did you know that my real name is Jeff Bezos? (nt)

[vt_native]

3. They treat workers like slaves, I try not to order from them

[Nye Bevan]

5. "Of more than 1400 Target stores employing more than 300,000 people nationwide, not one has a union"

In contrast to this image, however, critics say that in terms of wages and benefits, working conditions, sweatshop-style foreign suppliers, and effects on local retail communities, big box Target stores are very much like Wal-Mart, just in a prettier package.

Of more than 1,400 Target stores employing more than 300,000 people nationwide, not one has a union. Employees at various stores say an anti-union message and video is part of the new-employee orientation. At stores in the Twin Cities, where Target is headquartered, the United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW) union Local 789 has been trying for several years to help Target employees organize, with little luck.

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13508

So that's Target. We all know about Wal-Mart. And as the bricks and mortar retailers continue down the "Amazon death spiral" things will only get worse for their workers.

[ohheckyeah]

40. How many companies don't nowadays?

Costco?

[CrispyQ]

181. There was a thread about six weeks ago, where a DUer was

telling how awful they were treated by their 'mom-n-pop' employers. Turns out, lots of DUers had similar stories.

Labor has an image problem in this country. If you were born after 1980, all you've ever heard is that unions are bad. When a company wants to improve their bottom line quickly, what do they do first? They cut labor.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

4. I kind of agree....

Hopefully Amazon workers are able to unionize and conditions continue to improve for them, but there are a lot of benefits. Seems to me like the more popular Amazon becomes the better it is for the USPS. The internet started to kill the postal service, but now it can be instrumental in keeping it around.


As for working conditions; Target, Walmart, Best Buy, etc also treat their employees like shit.

[Agschmid]

6. Not looking good...

Employees at an Amazon.com facility have decided against forming a labor union. The vote last night was the first of its kind in Amazon's history.

The Seattle-based online retailer employs more than 100,000 people worldwide, and the union would have comprised only about 30 maintenance and repair technicians at a warehouse in Delaware. These employees were unhappy about "limited opportunities for promotion and a constantly rotating chain of managers," Bloomberg Businessweek reports.

But after weeks of discussion, only six of them voted for unionization late Wednesday.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/01/16/263111214/first-union-vote-at-an-amazon-warehouse-in-the-u-s-fails

[Nye Bevan]

8. That is a beautifully clean and well-organized warehouse

compared to many of the shitholes I have worked in.

[FarCenter]

35. Odd that you would attempt to unionize a warehouse by starting with maintenance and repair techs

First, there were only 27 of them. Second, they are the ones with the more permanent and higher paying jobs that the general warehouse workers doing the picking and packing. The latter are the ones walking 11 miles a day in variable temperatures.

[lunasun]

41. larger existing craftsman unions available to start a local there?

[FarCenter]

43. International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers

The warehouse is in Middletown, DE, but some of the workers had been transferred from New Castle, DE.

Possibly some of the workers had been in that union when previously working for another firm?

[OrwellwasRight]

69. And you think that vote was not influenced by a massive

Last edited Sat Jan 18, 2014, 10:41 PM - Edit history (1)

Anti-Union campaign, including threats to shut down the warehouse, firing of union activists, mandatory captive audince meetings in which only one side (anti-union propaganda) is heard? What's your point?

http://www.unionbusting101.com/SpotlightontheUnion-Busters.html

[Agschmid]

82. I didn't know I had a point...

I posted a news article?

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

104. I wonder who was behind that attempt.

Any union I'm aware of wouldn't try with such a small size, it doesn't make any sense........

[Nye Bevan]

7. Amazon is also incredibly good for the environment.

Compare the environmental impact of:

1. Thirty people in a town drive their cars to the mall, circle around to find parking spots, go inside to buy their items (each of which was delivered on a truck to the retailer), go back to their cars, and drive home. Of course, those who could not find the product they wanted drive to another mall and repeat the process.

2. A single UPS truck drives through a town and drops off a package to each of 30 Amazon customers in that town.

[spin]

61. Good point! ...

I would have to drive 40 miles to and from to the nearest Big Box store which is a Walmart and 70 miles to and from the nearest Best Buy.

Amazon.com works for me!

[A HERETIC I AM]

68. You MUST know there is a SHITLOAD more to it than your #2.

Pun intended.

[Lancero]

100. Compared to the shitload required to get the items to a store?

I'd say that the shitloads would even each other out.

[A HERETIC I AM]

101. Well, yeah.

I mean, the UPS driver bringing it to your house is not the only transport and infrastructure involved when you order from the likes of Amazon.


That is so simplistic as to be .....dopey.

[jeff47]

177. So...Do goods teleport to your local brick-and-mortar store?

I mean, the UPS driver bringing it to your house is not the only transport and infrastructure involved when you order from the likes of Amazon.

There's also a long transport chain getting items into your favorite brick-and-mortar store. They're more-or-less the same, assuming you don't "rush" the Amazon shipping.

[A HERETIC I AM]

178. That is pretty much the point I was trying to make.

I'm so happy you are astute enough to pick up on it!

It isn't as if the goods are teleported from the Amazon warehouse to the back of the UPS truck in your neighborhood either, right?

I contend that there is just about the same amount of infrastructure involved in buying online vs buying at a store. What's missing is the store and its employees, and of course, the customers need to get TO the store and home again.

There are still rail shipments, truck shipments, etc.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

140. Try working there for awhile before making a judgement about the working conditions.

It is a sweat shop with carefully orchestrated publicity shots. People are treated horrible, given impossible timeframes to complete tasks so that you may receive your desperately needed steam cleaner in two days. The hours are a soul killing grind during peak seasons, the employee areas are nasty beyond belief and the supervisors are nasty little gnomes who have become robots to the corporate ideology of "don't care how it is done but GET IT DONE." The warehouses are not heated in the winter or air conditioned in the summer. There is a reason the medical staff stays busy ALL THE TIME. People pass out from the heat and one supervisor had to be forced to shut down a warehouse during the last polar vortex a couple of weeks ago because the employees refused to work in the sub-zero temps. He was all for the employees risking frostbite and hypothermia while he sat in his nice cozy office. One time I got a tiny paper cut on one of the boxes. I asked for a band aid to keep from getting blood all over the product (never mind the finger!) and ended up getting a 18 page "incident" report to fill out and then counseling by the supervisor on how it was my fault I got the paper cut, made to sign a statement acknowledging it was my fault as well as agreeing if it happened again I would be written up. I lasted four months before quitting. Not a nice place at all.

[infoviro]

9. Amazons partnership with the CIA rocks!

[Nye Bevan]

10. Good point. I certainly don't want anyone to see the stuff I buy.

That's why I always keep a large blanket over my shopping cart on the rare occasions I go to a traditional store.

[infoviro]

11. here

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/21/amazon_to_build_cia_cloud/

In a speech in New York Wednesday, the CIA’s chief technical officer, Gus Hunt, explained the spy agency’s strategy for a broad surveillance dragnet:

“The value of any piece of information is only known when you can connect it with something else that arrives at a future point in time,” Hunt said. “Since you can’t connect dots you don’t have, it drives us into a mode of, we fundamentally try to collect everything and hang on to it forever.”

As HuffPo’s Matt Sledge noted, Hunt’s speech indicated that the CIA has interest in storage and analysis capabilities on a massive scale — a scale that likely requires its own server in the cloud. Online giant Amazon will reportedly be facilitating this.

As Federal Computer Week reported this week, the CIA has committed to a $600 million, 10-year deal with Amazon for cloud computing services. Although neither Amazon nor the agency has confirmed the report, Hunt’s speech, noted Sledge, made numerous references to cloud computing.

[Nye Bevan]

15. Yes, Amazon uses its revenue from renting cloud services to help keep prices low.

I'm not sure that just because the CIA is a cloud client they will throw in their confidential customer information as a freebie.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

19. True, plus Target's "targeted" ads are just as creepy.

At least the CIA isn't trying to sell me stuff.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/

[Scootaloo]

37. "If you don't have anything to hide, you have nothing to worry about!"

[Nye Bevan]

13. If my local retailers had the stuff in stock that I need immediately,

I would be happy to support them. But unfortunately for them, while "we can order it for you and have it in a week" might have constituted great customer service in 1985, it kind of doesn't cut it today. And then everyone is like "OMG CIRCUIT CITY WENT OUT OF BUSINESS!!!"

[HipChick]

16. I order just about everything online..

What good is it them ordering for me, and having to wait for a week? I have gotten items same day from Amazon too..

[Nye Bevan]

22. Yeah, I tell them "oh, I think I'll hold off for now"

and order the item with my Amazon app as I am walking out the door.

[HipChick]

23. I have a app that looks up the item online on my phone

its cheaper and free shipping...so why would I wait?

[BlueStreak]

91. Look up Stockholm Syndrome

[meadowlark5]

160. Or have it at all

I shop local a lot. But there are times there is no choice but to shop chain stores. I don't recall seeing, ever, a cell phone, tablet or even the accessories available at any local store I've been to.

If I want a particular pair of jeans, is my local clothing store going to have them? No. They have unusual stuff made in Maylasia but not what I'm looking for.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

14. Which union retailers would you recommend?

I live in a mid size city and they are nonexistent. It's a nice thought though. The fact is Amazon caries items you might not be able to find locally outside of big box stores. I order all of my textbooks from Amazon, it saves about 200 a semester. There aren't a lot of union run textbook stores around here.

[Nye Bevan]

17. It's like trying to find a blacksmith after cars were invented.

It's a new world.

[BlueStreak]

130. May I suggest a different analogy? It is more like

trying to find good, efficient public transportation in most American cities after General Motors actively killed many of those systems.

Cars replacing horses is clearly progress. Wal*Mart and Amazon destroying hundreds of thousands of business, replacing well-paid career workers with minimum wage minimum-skill workers is not progress.

[Nye Bevan]

137. What.... so Los Angeles, for example, used to have a fast and efficient subway system,

but the advent of the automobile shut that all down?

I must have missed that in history class.

[BlueStreak]

139. Evidently you DID sleep through history class that day.

[RC]

59. Over paying their employees?

Really. How about the other big box's under paying their employees?

[RC]

64. There is a Costco less than a mile from here.

It does pay to visit them now and again. All the other 'big box' stores are 10 to 15 miles away in Independence. And this is Kansas City!

[yeoman6987]

47. Locals never have anything my family needs

It is a waste of time and a disaster for the environment. Buy Amazon as much as possible.

[Demo_Chris]

87. Having worked for both local and big box retailers, the locals were no better...

I have worked for a good half-dozen local retailers and none were any better than the big box competetors, and in most cases they were worse. I understand that it's cool to hate on Walmart, but a lot of that is just elitism disguised as compassion.

[KitSileya]

171. A lot of Walmart hatred is because of its business practices,

and a wish not to line the already fluffy pockets of the Walmart heirs.

For example, I often buy stuff at the grocery store closest to work rather than closest to my home, even if it means I have to haul it all the way home rather than just jump off the bus one stop early. That is because the grocery store close to work is in the Co-op chain - one of the bigger grocery store chains here in Norway that is owned by its members. That means I am not giving money to the odious profit mongers who own the other chains.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

18. Maybe for some things and some people

Most people still want to feel and try on clothes before buying. Some people buying paint or hardware realize it's nice to have someone to go back to and ask questions or replace for appropriate item same day.

[Nye Bevan]

20. I know my waist, inseam, chest, and shoe sizes.

I can't remember the last time I tried something on in a store. But I do admit that some people like to do that. Which would explain why it tends to be clothes retailers that replace defunct book and electronics stores.

[awoke_in_2003]

75. Just because you know your size...

doesn't mean it will fit. With shoes, I can go from a 10.5 to a 12, depending on what Asian country they are made in. Pants are the same way.

[Zorra]

21. I get it. I wear size "6 long bootcut" jeans, and have to buy them through Amazon because

no store that I know of within 150 miles of my home sells them. (Granted, the real only department store of any size within 60 miles of me is one Wal Mart, but still, I've spent scores of hours searching through stores down in the city, fruitlessly wasting my time just to find a pair of jeans that fit right.

I wear size ten and a half shoes. I needed a pair of standard black pumps for an event, and after a month of wasting time searching different stores for a decent pair that fit right, I got a pair that fit perfect, at a good price through Amazon.

Seems like stores have cut back on their floor staff, too; sometimes I spend a lot of time trying to find an item, and/or someone to help me find , and I end up leaving the store without buying something because I run out of time, and have to leave for an appointment.

I never bought anything through Amazon before three months ago, but it saves me so much time and frustration that I've started avoiding shopping at stores except for mom and pops or grocery stores where I know they have exactly what I need and don't have to spend all day hunting for it.

[Nye Bevan]

31. Yeah, I remember rummaging through the rack for my size and then leaving in disappointment

when it wasn't there.

That is not a problem anymore.

[WinkyDink]

29. I use certain hair prducts not available other than on-line.

[rurallib]

42. Amazon is my very last choice. I used them once last year

and hope to cut down on that this year. Local first, then Costco, seldom for Wally, Target and Amazon. When it gets down to Amazon, I really must ask myself if I really, really need it.

[Curmudgeoness]

48. I am in total agreement with you.

It saddens me to see so many DUers willing to throw away their local economy.

I don't know how I am able to survive....I have never bought anything online. I do not shop at Walmart. I do not shop at Lowes' and Home Depot (the 2 big box stores close to me). I have no Target store near me. And yet, I can find anything that I need locally. Maybe my needs and wants are just not as complex as other people.

[BlueStreak]

92. But WHY is it not available locally?

People here act like that soft of, you know, just happened. No, it was the result of first Wal*Mart coming in and destroying most local businesses, which eliminated 80% of our local product choices because Wal*Mart carries on the shittiest grade of products. Then Amazon came in and finished off the other 20%.

THAT is why you can't find anything of much quality or value locally anymore. It didn't just kind of sort of happen.

I seriously never thought I would read a thread full of such childish thinking here at DU.

[pipi_k]

122. Yeah, OK...

So Walmart came in and found a market with people who couldn't afford anything better.

Is it their fault for wanting to stretch their buying dollars?


How utterly arrogant is it to sit here and tell the poor that they should be blamed for wanting to make their money buy as much as it can.

As far as there not being any local businesses that sell quality things, that's not true. There are still some local places that sell quality stuff. Not far from me is a small community of Mennonites who make the most beautiful furniture. Handmade, heirloom-quality.

But it's expensive.

So go ahead and tell somebody who needs a dresser or bed for an in-law who's moving in, for example, to spend 3x for that piece of quality furniture vs. a cheaper version that they can afford.

Right.

[BlueStreak]

127. I don't expect the victims of this deathspiral to be able to drive the change we need

But my guess is that most of the people on this tread are not in poverty themselves and their blind obedience to the system that has already created so much poverty in America is shocking, to say the least.

Look, I can't say this any more plainly. They are coming for you next. The machine eats people and it doesn't stop as long as there are people to eat.

[pipi_k]

162. Rich and

Poor are kind of subjective, though, aren't they?

Using myself as an example, it's true I'm not exactly destitute, but we do have to get by on a fixed income here.

We don't watch every single penny, but we do have to budget for things like heat...and every year there's a rather large bill for life insurance

Mortgage. Car payment One never knows if, or when, the water heater will crap out.

So one doesn't necessarily have to be poverty stricken in order to qualify for a free pass from those telling them how they should be spending their own money.

[Blue_Adept]

165. Sorry

My "local economy" went away years ago, and not because of the internet. All that's left in the local mall, a good sized one, is largely jewelry or clothing shops. Target is the only place where you can get a lot of the basics that you want for a home. Supermarkets are the only local place that I really do much with, and even then it's just a regional chain.

Where can I get books locally? DVDs and Blu-rays? Comic books? Clothes for my size, which is not the norm? Nowhere local.

All those places disappeared in the 90's when Walmart's moved in more. And I refuse to shop there for a variety of reasons.

I have no place to support locally.

[Curmudgeoness]

170. That is a real shame.

I understand that there are places where there is little left of the "local" economy. I guess that I am lucky to have so many small shops in my area. We do have a Walmart, and it is always full of cars in the parking lot, but we have so many local businesses as well.

But there are some things that are hard to find locally. Books---I only use the library, and buy the books that I want to read through the library, so that when I have finished reading it, others can as well. Our library also has used book sales and I always buy there.

It is too bad that all your local business is gone. Small, locally owned businesses have always provided people who opened them a nice middle class living. It is sad to see that disappear.

[tazkcmo]

176. Where do you get your socks?

Underwear? Towels? Not trying to be an ass because I too try to buy locally and detest Walmart, Amazon, etc. I just moved (escaped) from rural Misory and the only place to shop for anything (except building supplies, auto parts and food) was Walmart but even when I lived in KC I still had to go to Target once a year for underwear and socks and other items as there were no locally made items or stores that I knew of. I'll buy my outer wear and such second hand but not my shoes, socks, drawers etc. So, I'm truly asking...

[Curmudgeoness]

185. There are things that are a problem for supporting local businesses.

I do get socks and underpants at KMart and bras at Penneys when they have a sale...but embarrassingly, I don't replace them very often. I did buy some socks from an alpaca farm in my area, but they didn't fit all that well, so I was back to KMart. Speaking of secondhand clothes, I just got three sweaters for $5.25....

I don't know where I would get towels if and when I needed them. I have not looked to see if there are any local businesses that sell them since I have been using the same one set of towels for 15-20 years (I live alone so it is much easier for me than it is for people with families).

I don't think that thinking and buying locally means that anyone has to buy everything from small local shops, but it does mean to try harder to do it. Go into those shops you have never been in and see what they have. I know that there are so many local businesses in my area that I feel really bad for people who have nothing near them. We have local hardware stores, chocolate manufacturers, shoe stores, grocery stores, clothing stores (although it is not locally made clothes), furniture stores, restaurants, butchers, consignment stores, antique stores, and so much more. There are organic and free range farms (although the prices are too high for me to use them exclusively, but I do occasionally support them). Oh, and the farmers markets in the summer!

[tazkcmo]

186. Nice buy

Great deal on those sweaters! Yeah, some things you just have to bite the bullet and buy at the lesser evil place. Good thing towels last a long time and I don't need a bra! So glad to be back in a city even if it is in Texas.
Rural life is great for some but not my cup java.

[Curmudgeoness]

187. You are very lucky

not to need bras.....they are extremely expensive. And Texas isn't all bad....I lived in Houston for years and it did not feel like a backwater place at all. And Austin is very liberal. But rural Texas was sometimes scary.

[yeoman6987]

51. I get what you are saying

However, if you care about the environment, you would be applauding these heroes for shopping on line. The gas and carbon footprint that people use to go on a simple shopping spree is horrid especially times millions. This is GREAT news that DU folks are looking at the environment and not the economy when making decisions on items to buy. Sorry but we need to care for the Earth too.

[sheshe2]

73. And when the Brick and Mortar stores are no more?

What of the millions of unemployed?

What happens to them?

[BlueStreak]

93. It has already happened mostly. And I'll tell you exactly what happens

We end up with millions unemployed, and then we end up begging with the Republican mutherfuckers to throw a few tuppences at the people who are the victims of all of this so that their children will have something to eat while we are waiting for the TPP to wipe out another million jobs.

Jesus Christ, people. Supporting these motherfuckers has consequences.

Pardon my French but it is unbelievable how self-centered some people on this thread are.

[Romulox]

114. The idea that we could sustain a middle class by selling each other crap made in China is a delusion

And for that matter, why didn't the clerks refuse to sell the cheap imported crap in the first place? After all, their neighbors could've used the manufacturing jobs.

It turns out that the job of store clerk is no more inviolable than the job of press operator. Why did you think it would be?

[kcr]

103. So, shopping online just makes the stuff poof out of the air magically?

No, I think I'll not help accelerate the demise of our middle class.

[Lost_Count]

77. Do you know what the word literally means?

[Vashta Nerada]

88. I'd rather shop on Amazon than go to stores.

It's all big box stores around here anyways.

So...your outrage is noted.

[Nika]

102. Good post. Amazon sucks.

[WilliamPitt]

132. I think causing depression

was the point of the exercise with this thread.

[Nye Bevan]

144. Oh, come now. Amazon has some *great* products that can be hard to find elsewhere.

For instance: http://www.amazon.com/War-Iraq-William-Pitt-Rivers/dp/1861976364/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390157466&sr=8-1&keywords=%22william+pitt%22+iraq

[Nye Bevan]

143. Here ya go

http://www.amazon.com/The-Depression-Anxiety-Cure-depression-ebook/dp/B00CHB9NO4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390157319&sr=8-1&keywords=fight+depression

[mythology]

25. I generally avoid Amazon

because I believe in shopping locally, even if it costs a little more. The local tax base needs it as well as the local economy. Amazon contributes to a society where more and more of the economic wealth is concentrated at the top because it draws money out of local communities.

[Nye Bevan]

32. Amazon now charges sales tax here in CT (and I believe quite a few other states).

So Amazon customers are indeed contributing to the local tax base.

[BlueStreak]

53. THey fought that in Indiana

and they have 3 distribution centers here' I believe.

ruining local commerce in favor of unethical or amoral unaccountable tax-evading corporations is never the right solution. And nobody here should be bragging about that.

Yes, I order on the Internet when I have to, but I sure don't brag about it.

[Nye Bevan]

54. Amazon is now charging sales tax in Indiana.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/1/5263968/amazon-is-now-charging-sales-tax-in-indiana-nevada-and-tennessee

So they contribute just as much to the local tax base as the traditional stores.

[BlueStreak]

57. They were able to evade that for 15 years, and only gave up the fight recently.

And the only reason they were forced to pay tax is that Indiana passed slave labor laws that Amazon likes, so they built a couple of their prison camps here/ And even with those facilities in operation in the state, the STILL fought the tax.

Meanwhile every honest Mom & Pop shop in the state had to pay an extra 7% that Amazon never paid. How many stores went out of business in the 15 years that Amazon profited by this unfair advantage?

Again, nobody should be bragging about patronizing that company. That is Stockholm Syndrome.

[Nye Bevan]

86. Not "evade". That was a long-standing law that applied to every out-of-state retailer (nt)

[BlueStreak]

90. It is tax evasion in my book. It is just that they do it by buying legislation.

That tax free Internet stuff should have been eliminated at least 10 years ago. And why wasn't it? If you follow the money, you find Amazon at the forefront of that.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704396504576204791377862836

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-vs-calif-giants-battle-over-sales-taxes/

Amazon launched an expensive campaign to overturn the law through a ballot measure putting the issue into the hands of Californians. If it gets 500,000 voters to sign its petition over the next two months, the issue would be on the state ballot in February.

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/198497-amazoncom-hires-bolsters-lobbying-force-for-sales-tax-fight

Others in the firm working for Amazon include William Wichterman, a former special assistant to President George W. Bush, Holly Fechner, once policy director to the late Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.), and Martin Gold, former floor adviser and counsel to then-Senate majority leader William Frist (R-Tenn.)

Amazon’s lobbying stable includes a number of other K Street firms, including The Bockorny Group, according to Senate records.

If you think it is a good idea to let a company get this huge by driving tens of thousands of businesses in the ground on the basis of this ridiculous tax advantage, you are welcome to that opinion. I don't think there is anything at all admirable about that, and I don't believe it is good for our future to be on a track where there will essentially be one monopoly vendor that nobody else can compete with.

Have you tried to mail a UPS package lately? Amazon has crunched down on Fedex and UPS demanding such huge price cuts on shipping that those companies have more than doubled the rates they charge consumers and regular businesses in the past 4 years. Amazon is every bit as destructive as Wal*Mart was when they did the first wave of wipe-outs of local businesses.

[WinkyDink]

28. I love Amazon, Amazon Prime, my 2 Kindle Fires, AND B&M stores! Sometimes I can't leave the house

(it's a depressing story).

[NightWatcher]

30. I tried to buy a specialty item from a local store

I was standing at the counter talking to the store owner and he told me that he doesn't stock as many items as he used to but that he could get it from "his guy" and have it in a few days. He then stepped to his computer and pulled the item up on Amazon. I could see the webpage. He then quoted me 12 dollars more than it cost to get the item and ship it. Why wouldn't I just get it from Amazon? I'm all about shopping local, but this would've been nothing more than handing the guy $12, going home and ordering it myself.

[lordsummerisle]

33. folks should also check out

The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the age of Amazon

[Nye Bevan]

38. I think I will- only $10.99 on Kindle! (nt)

[starroute]

34. I do keep finding that nothing I need is available locally

Right now I'm at my wits' end trying to come up with the little Hefty kitchen scrap bags that I've been using for thirty years. None of the supermarkets carry them any more, so I'm going to have to order through Amazon, like it or not.

Part of this is deliberate on the part of the stores. We have an old house with old windows, and when I couldn't find weatherstripping for them I asked the clerk at Lowe's. He told us that the stores and manufacturers would rather force people to upgrade to new windows, so they avoid stocking anything to make old ones more airtight.

I've got my own gripes about Amazon, but they're often the last resort for finding older, more DIY-ish, products.

[elfin]

56. Had to get those bags from Amazon as well

I love them and nothing works as well for a kitchen with no disposer.

My grocer stopped carrying them last year.

[BlueStreak]

94. Have you asked yourself WHY these goods are no longer readily available?

[starroute]

119. I think part of it must be marketing algorithms

My kids are both into comics, so I hear a lot about what's going on in that area. The big news lately has been how many people are furious at DC comics for basically trying to turn the clock back 20 years, focus heavily on Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman to the exclusion of anything more quirky or original, and basically setting up a gated community of the imagination.

According to my younger son, the secret is that roughly half of the comics-reading audience consists of a core group of 35-40 year old males who are looking for a certain brand of action-adventure and have no interest in anything else, while the other half of the audience is a far more diverse group with a range of tastes and no particular need to be loyal to the icons of their childhood.

So if you're a marketing guy, you obviously go for the half of the audience that's a sure thing while writing off everybody else. You might even kill certain titles and characters that have a passionate niche following, reduce female superheroes to sex objects, and otherwise behavior in ways that seem inexplicably alienating -- because you're focusing like a laser on the tastes and demands of that core audience.

Although it's less obvious in general merchandise than in comics, I think the same principal applies. They've got a core demographic in mind -- people of a certain age, income level, and taste level -- and very little interest in anyone else. If you're older or poorer or just have different interests, you get very short shrift at best.

[BlueStreak]

129. The algorithms -- and a commitment to using automation to win the race to the bottom.

Back when we had locally owned businesses, they often stocked products that didn't fly off the shelves, but were important to some of their clients. Today, the mega-stores are all driven by automation that says the only thing worth stocking is a product that is sold within 3 days (or whatever is appropriate for that product category).

This is where Amazon has a big advantage because warehouse space is MUCH cheaper than prime retail space, so they can afford to offer products that are second-tier in demand, so to speak.

[Warpy]

39. Shoes.

That's the one thing I won't order online unless I know the brand and model and what size my feet are in that brand and model. I need to try them on or I run the risk of having my already arthritic feet hurt badly to the point they won't hold me up for a few days.

[ohheckyeah]

44. I tried to buy a pair of Dan Post

boots in a local shop. LOL I had called before I went in and they told me they had my size in a number of Dan Post styles. I got there the next day and found out they only got in size 7s. I wear a 6. Then they got all snotty because I didn't like the other brands of boots they had. While I was trying on another brand of boots, the manager left for lunch and actually rolled his eyes and said to the employee waiting on me "good luck." Jackass. That was the last pair of boots I tried on and I left.

Excuse me.....when I'm paying $300 for a pair of boots, I want what I want. It's the last time I'll shop in that store. I ordered the boots online from Shepler's.

[ohheckyeah]

49. Most of what I want can't be bought locally.

I live rural and the nearest town is a podunk town with few stores except for Walmart, Dollar Tree, and a bunch of antique stores. I buy from Amazon all the time for that reason. What few mom and pop shops outside of antique stores don't carry shit.

[ohheckyeah]

70. Speaking of evil....

that was you 666th post.

There is a small antique mall close to me and I've bought a number of items there. I got a wicker set for my front porch and a really cool wrought iron and wood mid-century modern chair there. It's an outdoor chair and it needs some love but I've never seen another one like it. I even did an Internet search to see if I could find one and found nothing. We are in the process of restoring it. I love giving used stuff new life.

I wish we had more local stores. I guess there isn't enough money locally to support small stores.

The little hardware store finally went out of business. We shopped there when we could get what we needed. They just didn't carry much.

[Barack_America]

46. Bricks and mortar stores don't suck. But Amazon is useful too.

We try to mix it up. Absolutely no Wal-Mart, Costco over Target when possible. Aldi for groceries (great benefits for their employees). Books, hardware, restaurants, or anything we need advice on we do local. But we don't have unlimited resources so some consumables we go through regularly, we subscribe to Amazon for.

[peacebird]

50. I use amazon for research, and buy through my local brick & mortar stores

Kind of similar to how I totally avoid WalMart since they switched from all made in the USA to cheaply made crap

[Nye Bevan]

52. The temptation to click "Buy Now" must be enormous,

guaranteeing that the item will be delivered on your doorstep in the next day or two as opposed to embarking on a grand but uncertain quest to track down the item at a physical store, probably at a higher price. I admire your self-control.

[peacebird]

55. No, not really. "buy now" is pretty much lost on me. I am much happier supporting local companies

[Bluenorthwest]

112. To see a crowd like that at a shop, I'd have to fly hundreds of miles and arrive

on Christmas Eve. Try again.

[sendero]

58. I have to admit..

... I've been using Amazon a lot the last year or so. The Prime deal is a great one. Free 2-day shipping on a lot of stuff.

Here's the thing. It USED to be important to actually see-hear-feel an item you wish to buy. That is what the brick and mortar store provided. That and instant gratification.

But there are few things I need I can't wait a couple of days for. And the see-feel-touch gets less and less relevant when you can read 100 reviews of the product from people who have it.

For better or worse, this is where it is going. I would prefer it if more on-line competition would ensue, I have found that despite appearances (links to other retailers) - Amazon often does not have the best price on things. So if it is a high-priced item (say over $100), you'd better surf around. But it is awfully convenient to do a bit of online research, click a few buttons and two days later a box is at your door. I say hooray.

As for how Amazon treats their employees, well look around. Except for a handful of notable exceptions ALL retailers treat their employees like shit.

[BlueStreak]

96. Are you one of those people who goes into a local shop to check out the product

then orders it online to save $1.97?

And then complains because there aren't any stores locally that have the product you want?

[sendero]

108. No....

.. I do not. Can you read?

[sarcasmo]

63. Exactly! My nephew with Downs still loves his CD player and headphones.

Took him to Walmart today and we looked for a CD. There is very little selection in the store and the kid says, I will just buy it on Amazon. Now if a Downs kid is telling you that he will just buy it on Amazon, the big box store is Screwed.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

66. here's your 6th rec.

[hollysmom]

72. I try and buy from costcoThey pay above monimum wage and have a union

and treat people well.

I used to have a friend that loved to work at bJ's but learned that it isn't as good today.

[Historic NY]

76. My experiences with Amazon have all be positive...

I tend to use them as the source for books (history) and their overseas EU components links to find some titles. I use them to buy the out of date ugly New Balance running shoes. Where else can one shop and find a plethora of items and prices.

[pipi_k]

80. They certainly

Do!

I buy from Amazon all the time. Today, in fact, I had to stock up on more of the antiseptic spray I need for one of my dogs who has chronic problems with staph sores. The other day I bought a pair of grooming clippers for her as well

These two items are not at my local feed and grain store. I looked last week Closest pet supply place other than that one is about an hour away


Sometimes items can be found cheaper at other online stores, but then when shipping costs are added, it's more expensive, and you have to wait five to ten (or more!) days to get your stuff. One yarn/craft place I buy yarn from a lot takes a full two weeks

So screw it...I order from Amazon because they almost always have what I'm looking for, ship quickly, and often cost less than many other places

[flvegan]

81. Thank the gods we can get our Chinese-built crap more expeditiously!

Those long drives to Walmart were killing us all.

[BlueStreak]

97. But really, won't it be nicer when they deliver that same Chinese crap

the same afternoon using drones?

Stockholm Syndrome is strong with this thread.

[markpkessinger]

83. Some examples of how Amazon "rocks" . . .

Yeah, it rocks alright -- if you don't give a shit about the workers.

Inside Amazon's Warehouse

Brutal Conditions In Amazon's Warehouses Threaten To Ruin The Company's Image

Amazon.com Is Accused Of Abusive Work Conditions After BBC Secretly Videotapes Warehouse

What Happened When I Got a Job at a Soul-Crushing, Abusive Warehouse

Amazon Using Successful Disposable Human Strategy To Staff Warehouse

There is a quote of President Benjamin Harrison that I like a great deal: "I pity the man who wants a coat so cheap that the man or woman who produces the cloth or shapes it into a garment will starve in the process." I would suggest that your attitude is the modern day equivalent of the one President Harrison was addressing in his day when he spoke those words.

[distantearlywarning]

84. Ok, I'm a bad progressive

I get it.

I'm still ordering my stuff from Amazon. I love Amazon and I don't care who knows it. Amazon has seriously improved the quality of my life over the last few years.

1) I can read thousands of reviews about something before I buy it.

2) I don't have to drive my car there, find a parking spot, deal with 8000 annoying other customers and all their annoying screaming children and all the annoying snotty 18-year-old sales clerks (actually the #1 reason I love Amazon, truth be told - I'm SICK TO DEATH of having to interact with other Americans all the time, it's exhausting)

3) There is no such thing as a "local" store where I live anyway (Best Buy doesn't count as "local" in my mind any more than Amazon does)

4) Like others have said in this thread, I'm tired of driving somewhere only to find that the selection sucks, they don't have my size, they're out of half the things I need, nobody can help me with anything, etc etc. I can compare 300 alternatives instantly on Amazon and sort them by customer review and help myself instead. When I go to the store, they have 3 versions, none of which fit me, and they're all ugly and of bad quality, because that's all they stock at the so-called local store (which isn't even local anyway).

5) Free shipping with a Prime membership

6) Many times I order weird stuff that isn't even possible to buy at a store here. I'm not driving all over my urban-sprawl-infested city looking for one strange thing that nobody carries when I can just click a button and have it show up on my doorstep.

7) My life is too short and full of work and crap to worry about any of this shit anymore. Let the young excited kids who still think the world can be saved and that anyone actually gives a shit about its saving throw themselves on this kind of grenade. I just want my thing and I want it on my doorstep in 2 days. I know, I suck. Oh well. If being called a selfish person is part of the price for having the perfect thing on my doorstep in 2 days with free shipping, fine. Have at it.

[Nye Bevan]

85. Well you ARE saving the environment.

As I said above, which is better for the environment?

1. Thirty idealistic young progressives who are determined to shop locally each drive their cars to the mall, circle around to find parking spots, go inside to buy their items (each of which was delivered on a truck to the retailer), go back to their cars, and drive home. Of course, those who could not find the product they wanted drive to another mall and repeat the process.

2. A single UPS truck drives through a town and drops off a package to each of 30 Amazon customers in that town.

[BlueStreak]

98. Not necessarily. Perhaps you could make up for it in other ways

Maybe you are active as a union organizer.

Maybe you have run for a local office to try to make an impact that way.

Maybe you volunteer significant amounts of time to campaign for progressive candidates.

Or maybe you at least take that money you are saving at Amazon and donate that to progressive candidates.

There are lots of ways real progressives can put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. But it probably isn't a great starting point to be so eager to help a company whose business plan is perhaps THE strongest enabler of the transfer of wealth from the USA to China, Indonesia, and all the other countries that are in the process of owning you -- lock stock, and barrel.

And it probably isn't a really great starting point to be such a supporter of a company that has become such an essential part of the new security state we are all living under.

[pipi_k]

120. And reason #8...

Amazon is great about returning stuff.

Most recent case involved a hand/thumb brace I ordered.

The one I bought was about $40, which wouldn't have been too bad if it had felt OK on my hand. It didn't. the hard plastic thumb case had sharp edges, AND it was non-reversible.

I returned it with no problem and ordered a different one (half price) with adjustable velcro straps and no sharp edges, plus it can be used for either hand.

Even if I had been able to find that hard brace in a RL store, they generally don't approve of opening up the packages, plus it took a few hours of wearing it before the pain issue became apparent. Which would have meant having to go to the store (20 miles away) to return it.

Have never had a problem with returns with Amazon.

[Nye Bevan]

142. They are awesome about returns. They *instantly* credit back my credit card,

as soon as I click that I am returning something. Instantly. I then have 30 days to return the item back to them. They will send a reminder email if necessary.

Compare this to waiting for 30 minutes in a slow-moving customer service line to wait to be interrogated by a bored and rude employee, and then possibly getting my refund a month later.

[Vashta Nerada]

89. I love shopping on Amazon.

I don't have a car so it's nice to be able to get free two day shipping on everything I order.

[greatlaurel]

95. Amazon really sucks bigtime.

I live in a rural area and the shipping from Amazon takes forever. After my last Amazon fiasco, I have sworn off from buying anything from them ever again.

We have been waiting nearly three weeks for a book for college, now into the second week of the semester and no book from Amazon. Absolutely lousy service. Will not happen again as we will not buy from them ever, again.

Amazon has gotten a hold of enough suckers that they can now afford to cut staffing and have lousy customer service. Local retailers need to wake up and give great service and they will have customers back in droves, except for the Amazon zombies, of course.

[davidn3600]

105. Majority of Americans shop for price, not service.

It's sad, but it's the truth.

People who shop around for the best service usually dont have a tight budget. Remember, nearly 80% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

[tsuki]

106. I was looking for curing salt and I called

the stores in town. No. So I looked on line. Amazon had Morton's Tender Quick (2 lbs) for 14.76 free shipping.

I tried some other sites, around 7.00, but shipping was extra. I finally hit the Morton's site. They had a zip code finder. Found it in a town about 40 miles away, 4.88 a bag. Son was heading that way so he picked me up 3 bags at less than 1 bag from Amazon, free shipping.

Yep, Amazon rocks.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

107. "We can order it for you" well, I can order it myself.

And my computer won't spent fifteen minutes trying to sell me an extended warranty.

I completely agree.

Maybe the people in Hooterville really do have a spectacular array of well stocked unionized independent retailers to patronize. But that hasn't been the case anywhere I have lived.

[CFLDem]

109. I can see the Luddites are in full force today.

May the retailer with the best customer experience win.

Any other aspect is ultimately irrelevant. But we'll let you keep your soapbox as a consolation prize.

[BlueStreak]

110. Cattle gleefully strolling into the slaughter house.

Amazon and Wal*Mart are the two main cogs that

a) enable the vast transfer of wealth from America to China and even worse places for labor, with China each year gaining greater ownership of every gleeful victim on this thread and millions more.

b) Eliminate good businesses by the hundreds of thousands, replacing them with job "opportunities" for completely menial work at poverty wages.

Every time we hit the "buy it" button at Amazon, we are adding to the misery in America. This is not something that any progressive would ever celebrate, IMHO.

[CFLDem]

111. It is something that a progressive of the Hillary wing of the party does celebrate.

[brentspeak]

115. I see the coordinated Amazon shills in full force today

There should be a DU rule prohibiting commercial endorsement on the threads.

[CFLDem]

117. So what's your idea for a better customer experience?

[BlueStreak]

124. How old are you?

I'm sorry, a website no matter how elegant and well-designed it is, is not "customer service".

I am perfectly willing to give you a pass on that if you are under, say, age 40. Let me give you an example. I have to go back 25 years for this -- before Wal*Mart "disappeared" all these businesses. There was an office supply store only about 5 miles from my house, and right on a route I took several times a week, so don't try to tell me about energy savings of having a UPS truck make a special trip to my house. This was a locally owned company that had served our community for 3 or 4 generations.

They had just about everything of an office product nature I could ever want right there in the store. They were 1/5 the size of your average Staples, but had FAR, FAR more product selection. And here's the bit you are missing. They had experienced, helpful, INTELLIGENT PEOPLE working in the store. If there was something I wanted, they knew the best product for my need and were more than happy to make a special order.

Yes, maybe I can, technically speaking, order some of those products from Amazon, but I can't get any customer service.

And what is the cost? First, one has to accept the premise that there in an intrinsic value to locally owned businesses. They support the local high school teams. They are stable members of the community. They add lots of value just by existing. But beyond that, when Office Max, Best Buy and Wal*Mart put these people out of business, they replaced them with huge stores that have minuscule choice and a small number of poorly trained, unmotivated, poorly paid workers.

And those professionals who use to run that store are no longer paying taxes in the community, so my tax rates have gone UP!!! Big time. There is a cost of all this misery. My state sales taxes are 50% higher than they were when that store was in business. My property taxes are twice what they were then even accounting for inflation. State income tax was 1.5% back then. Now it is 3.4% And part of that is because our state government has given tax abatement to the so-called "major employers" like Amazon and Wal*Mart to build distribution centers and not pay a dime of taxes for 10-15 years. But I still have to pay for all the additional roads and facilities these bastards consume. And for all that, they barely employ anybody, and always near minimum wage.

And all so I can save 73 cents on a ream of paper !?

That is just one example. I could give you dozens from my own personal experience. Top notch camera shops. Luggage stores. Really nice gift shops. Vacuum cleaner stores, Locally produced ice cream stores. And on and on.

We are paying a price whenever we support these hideously large corporations.

[CFLDem]

126. Being someone under 30

I never had a particularly pleasant experience at local stores whose selection was always wanting, and prices way too high for the privilege.

I find it much more convenient and pleasant shop on Amazon or one-stop shop at Walmart.

[GP6971]

179. I sure miss those

small, privately owned stores. There was a local hardware store that was great.....had a huge selection of inventory and great customer service. I don't know how they did it, but they survived after both Lowe's and Home Depot opened stores within a mile. And the store hasn't changed one bit........looks exactly the same as when I first walked into the store over 30 years ago. As much as I can, I put off buying my hardware needs until I'm in the area of the local store.....except for parting with my money, it is a great shopping experience.

[distantearlywarning]

121. Part of your message is missing.

There should be a DU rule prohibiting commercial endorsement OF COMPANIES I DON'T PERSONALLY LIKE on the threads.

There. Fixed it for you.

[LanternWaste]

183. I imagine many sub-literate or less-than-intelligent individuals will conflate a concern with a part

I imagine many sub-literate or less-than-intelligent individuals will conflate a concern or criticism with a particular business model as being a Luddite. I absolutely understand the convenience in pretending that the two are in fact, the same thing, reality be damned.



"Any other aspect is ultimately irrelevant..."
Hence the boycott of Nestle never affected their deforestation stance, or a hundred other successful boycotts-- or so the less-than-intelligent may wish to believe (insert distinction without a difference here).



However, they may keep their creative pretense as an additional consolation prize, bless their little, dogmatic hearts/

[CFLDem]

184. Bless your heart.

Here, have a cookie 🍪

[Bluenorthwest]

113. Amazon is my very last choice, after local shops and independent internet retailers

also after the local shops in places I visit. If my life was limited or if I was afraid of the public I'd use it more. If I lived in an area with big crowds I might use it more. But I like to go to shops when I am shopping, I like to leave the house and see the faces and run into someone and all of that. I am not agoraphobic nor in need of instant gratification from 'getting stuff'.
It is cute to hear the term 'bricks and mortar' again, back in the 90's they said 'all the bricks and mortar stores will be gone in 5 years' and that sock puppet dog was going to deliver all the pet stuff and that other company that went bust was going to deliver your groceries, it was like magic, they said. But it was just mail order with a new way to send the form, nothing new, just something remade, it's the Spiegel Catalog of the 21st Century. Big whoop.

[BlueStreak]

134. This is the right attitude, I think. And I would add

many of us could stand to take a look at what we are actually consuming. Maybe some of it doesn't actually add to one's quality of life for more than an instant.

Apart from the daily "necessities" (food, things to repair the house, etc), I just don't buy very much that makes sense in either the Internet or big box super-store model. My biggest purchases are musical instruments and software that is specific to music production. And these all come from smaller businesses. Some of them distribute via the Internet, which is fine. But I actually know the names of some of the people who work each of these places, and they all take input directly from their customer about how they can improve their products. Personally I get a lot more satisfaction out of that kind of a business transaction than I would ever get buying some video game or who knows what from these mega-corps.

I buy many things from eBay. While eBay itself is a huge company, most of the people one deals with are either individuals, or small businesses. And in a very real way, this is recycling at its best.

[Nye Bevan]

138. I remember when they predicted the demise of Borders and Circuit City.

I mean, what were they thinking?

But yes, if it is human interaction you are looking for, Amazon sadly falls far short of the bricks and mortar stores.

[Romulox]

118. Nonsense! If I want something, I get into my Hyundai and drive to Best Buy. Because local. nt

[BlueStreak]

135. Touche! Well-typed on your Lenovo computer.

[RandiFan1290]

123. This is a local shop for local people!

[Orrex]

125. I wait by the phone, hoping Amazon will call me

And when they do, I keep them on the line for half an hour until their representative is furious or crying.

[Nye Bevan]

173. Amazon never calls people. They only ever send emails. (nt)

[brewens]

128. I made the mistake of Using the Wal-Mart Site to Store option one day. I long ago

discovered going online to shop and then once locating the best deal, heading out to buy it. I had to get a new DVD player that day. My girlfriend and granddaughter were on their way to visit and we had a movie night planned. My old DVD player died on me the night before.

So I picked out a reasonably cheap one and figured I may as well purchase it online and go pick it up. Their Site to Store advertisement made it seem really convenient. I mean just waltz into the Site to Store counter, pick it up and out I go, right? Nyet so fast! The Site to Store counter is nothing but the normal customer service counter with the Site to Store sign up there with everything else they offer. I end up in a line of people returning stuff and only one employee working there!

Boy, did that piss me off! It took quite awhile to pick up my item and the store wasn't even that busy. I could easily have gone back to electronics, found the DVD player myself, paid for it there and been out in under five minutes.

[bhikkhu]

131. In my small, somewhat depressed town, I know four places I could buy a small steam cleaner

Off the shelf. If I were looking for something exotic I wouldn't be surprised to not find it, but I usually buy things that are cheap and utilitarian, and I usually pay a few dollars more patronizing a local store instead of shopping online. Or I try to at least, in most cases.

Local stores employ my neighbors and friends, and then my neighbors and friends go to the place I work to buy things so I have a job too.

[Jesus Malverde]

133. There are thousands of mom and pop stores that sell through amazon....

Amazon Prime, is awesome.....

Here is my online experience...

5 quarts oil from Oreily $34 dollars...

5 quarts oil from walmart online $17 dollars, no tax and free shipping over $50 dollars, I hate Walmart but it's a no brainer...

[Nye Bevan]

136. BREAKING UPDATE.... just got 2 Amazon boxes delivered... on a SUNDAY!

No extra delivery charge, just excellent service!

Amazon just gets better and better!

[distantearlywarning]

141. Yes, but you're a shitty, selfish person

Not a true liberal, brainwashed by corporate America, suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, AND worst of all, you are secretly being paid to shill for Amazon on a website. How can you live with yourself?

[brentspeak]

146. OP has proudly admitted to subscribing to RW economic policies

Hiding behind Obama's support of them as cover. So maybe you would be better off deleting the "sarcasm" tag from you previous post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=428835

[Nye Bevan]

150. Oh no! I *hate* it when people expose my support of President Obama's policies on DU!

Busted!

[brentspeak]

153. Actually, you were schooled pretty badly on that thread

The other DUers contributing to the discussion saw right through your strawman and red herring fallacies. When challenged to make an effective response, you ran away:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002426928#post64

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=437393

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=430758

Not a surprise, given your support of RW policies.

[Nye Bevan]

155. Yeah, that second response in particular was a devastating riposte,

that left me utterly lost for words.

[brentspeak]

158. Considering you ignored his question

I would say that, yes, it did leave you "utterly lost for words".

[HipChick]

145. I love Sat and Sun delivery...

It's like Xmas everyday...AWESOME

[Rosco T.]

148. I have been a prime member for about 5 years...

No minimum purchase
No catch

Two Day delivery (many times it's been upgraded to overnight for free)

I usually order one or two big things a year that more than pay for it, like some bookcases this year that would normally have been like $50 delivery charge. each.)

AND free streaming of a HUGE PORTION of their video services (works on both web and my Roku)

[Rosco T.]

152. Your Credit Card info, Name and Address

Kinda hard to send you anything without that. In other words, if you already buy from them, they have all they need already.

[Nye Bevan]

149. You can sign up for a 30-day free trial

then after this you would be paying $79 per year, which is about the best $79 I ever spend. The thing is, once you are a member you lose that reluctance to purchase small things online, when without Prime the shipping cost would be too great compared to the cost of the item. Need a box of paperclips? An iPhone cable? Anything at all? When you are a Prime member the one-click button automatically appears along with the day you will receive your item free of charge (2 day delivery) and for things you need in a hurry there is a button you can click to get in the next day for an extra $3.99.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200444170

[Nye Bevan]

156. It's a free trial for 30 days. Then if you don't like it you can cancel it and pay nothing.

If you don't cancel it, they will then charge you $79 for a 1 year membership. As a member you will almost certainly find yourself ordering a lot more from Amazon than you used to.

[Rosco T.]

157. Yes you do pay after 30 days... however...

the free 2-day shipping aside... just the streaming service is worth it to me (79/yr = $6.60/mo)

Normal 'free shipping' like a week? 2day shipping on anything for 6.60/mo + streaming

[pipi_k]

163. We have been

Prime members at my house for about three years

No fine print. No "catches"


If you buy from Amazon as much as we do, the savings on shipping more than covers the membership fee


Only one person in the household has to be a member. I get free two day shipping through Mr Pipi's account

[Blue_Adept]

168. Free trial

Not just sign up for free. Standard free trial stuff.

They haven't changed the rate in years, though one does expect that if they do, it will be well known. Remember though that the Prime membership isn't just for shipping stuff. It's also giving you access to their streaming shows, which works great with a variety of devices. And with Amazon getting into content creation with a lot of pilots and shows being put to order to compete with Netflix, there will be appeal there in Prime members getting early access.

They also offer, or at least used to if I recall, mothers' rates for prime and a student one as well. It's naturally all about keeping you connected to the ecosystem. Once you get into how easy it is, you do more.

My wife and I have had prime for several years and we've saved a ton on shipping across the board. Particularly useful for release-day items that you want to get without the usual hassle of trying to get it before sold out, especially for videogames. Release day stuff is also useful for me business-wise since we do movie reviews and the like.

[TeamPooka]

161. In SoCal we have a chain called Frye's, electronics and appliances....

they always have everything I want in stock and at great prices.
Love that store.

[Heddi]

164. I just bought a text book for class that was added at the last minute

Literal last minute...project due on Monday, book added to class list on Thursday. Instructors said there was a glitch in the syllabus, and it should have been listed. But it wasn't. So now you have to buy it. NOW. For a project due in 3 days.

Frantic, I called every book store in a 30 mile radius including campus bookstores. Everyone who had the book (which were very few stores) had the previous edition, but not the current one. Current is required.

Buying it through the school bookstore (I am an online student, so school is in Tx, I'm in PA) was $85 but they could not ship it out that day, probably not til Monday, and for $27 I could get it next-day air, so I still wouldn't get the book on time.

On Amazon it was $50, and because I'm a prime member I get free 2 day shipping.

However I was able to pay $3 more and get it delivered that day. The same day I ordered it.

I ordered the book around 9am. It was delivered before 3pm.

That's not a bad deal. $30 cheaper PLUS I get it the same day I order it?

no question.

I order TONS of things from Amazon. That $80 we spend on prime for free shipping we'd have spent in the first 3 months of the year. Their return policy is no question, and I was even able to return a pair of defective Dansko's about 7 months after I bought them. The patent leather was peeling off, and for $120 shoes, they shouldn't look like shit. No problem. Refund was immediate, send the shoes back. I'm sorry for the inconveneince.

For Christmas, father-in-law got Mr. Heddi a kindle. The invoice had some listing about "gift cover" and I didn't know if FIL had bought a cover for the kindle, so I did customer service chat and it wasn't a listing for a cover, it was how they denote that the box the kindle comes in shouldn't say "YOUR NEW KINDLE IS INSIDE".

So no, no cover was bought with that order.

But, because of the inconvenience I suffered by reading this, they gave me $30 to buy the cover of my choice. I'm like "no, there was no inconvenience. I just wanted to make sure nothing was missing." Nope. $30 for a cover.

I save time and money from driving around to a billion stores to find what I need. I have a more generous return ability with Amazon than with other stores. I am a full time student, a full time worker, and I do other things on the side so I don't like spending all day on one of my 2 days off trying to find some doo-dad or other. Or THE brand of hot iron I want. Or the specific whatever my husband wants.

I can get it all on Amazon. Delivered in 2 days. No gas money, no wear and tear on the car, no spending all of my day off hunting for one item. And I get it for less $$ and let's be frank, there are few mom & pop stores around anyways. At least here. If I need an alteration, I'll go to mom and pop. If I want pizza, I go to mom and pop. If I want a vacuum, or a roku, I'm ordering it from Amazon.

[cprompt]

166. Small business sells on amazon

I got my fiancée makeup on amazon for Christmas and inside the package was an excellent hand written card from a woman saying she was new to online sales but thankful that I was one of her first 100 customers and she hoped the experience exceeded my expectations.

I did 100% of my Christmas shopping on amazon this year and personally loved the experience. It beats the hell out of going to 9-10 different stores, dealing with the lines, and not to mention the people. I had one return that since I am a prime member I could print my return label and have it picked up from my front door. AMAZING!!!!

Times have changed and not all of us live in areas where it's practical to run to several stores if we even have "local" stores left. It doesn't change the fact amazon provides affordable and convenient shopping.

[Revanchist]

169. Amazon and it's partner stores are great for buying college textbooks.

You can sometimes find them for half the price that the university bookstore charges.

[madokie]

172. I've only purchased a few items from Amazon

for the most part I do my on line shopping at eBay.
With eBay there isn't a big ass warehouse where the workers are taken advantage of like it is with Amazon.

[alarimer]

174. I like them too, with caveats

I would prefer to buy locally, but I live in a shithole small southern town, with only a Walmart, which I prefer to avoid (although I think Amazon's business practices are nearly as bad).

I also run over the border to Virginia a lot because I would rather my sales taxes go to a blue-ish state than to this repressive hellhole of North Carolina (in which our asshole governor and legislature just raised sales taxes while cutting taxes on the rich).

[Adrahil]

175. I admit, I use them all the time.

I can get pretty much exactly what I want, with the options I want, delivered to my door in two days or less (Prime member). I don't have to drive to a crappy store, with a limited selection, and surly employees (not really their fault, they are paid crap and treated as bably). Heck, I'm looking forward to being able to cost-effectively order groceries this way.

I am sad to see some brick and mortars go. I used to enjoy visiting book stores. But those days are over. That model no longer makes sense. I am genuinely curious how long the brick and mortar retail model can last.

[dembotoz]

180. per a professional newletter i get it is also a home to all kinds of malware--so b careful kids

i thought it was safe it appears not so much
that much traffic brings creative nasty folk as well

[LanternWaste]

182. Our undisciplined desire for instant gratification in all things does tend to force many of us to ra

Our undisciplined desire for instant gratification in all things does tend to force many of us to rationalize its use, and pretend to ourselves that looking for union made widgets are a waste of our precious time, while telling ourselves that those thing we merely want are actually those things we need.

I can perfectly understand the lack of patience in those who consider themselves part and parcel of the consumer culture.