Oakland woman loses 2 sons to homicide in 3 weeks

[n2doc]

by Henry K. Lee

When her 13-year-old son, Lee Weathersby III, was slain in East Oakland on New Year's Eve, Dinyal New was comforted by loved ones including her other child, 19-year-old Lamar Broussard, who remarked that Lee "was so perfect that he was too good to be true."

Now she is preparing to bury a son for the second time in three weeks. On Sunday, Broussard was fatally shot along with a second man as they rode in a car less than a mile away from the first crime scene.

On Monday, New said she was trying to remain strong. But the 41-year-old woman, a social worker's assistant, acknowledged that she didn't have the strength to positively identify both of her sons, asking relatives to do so "because I just have to remember them exactly the way they were."

To lose one son is bad enough, she said. To lose a second one is almost unthinkable. "I have no more kids," she said, adding that she was struggling with her faith in a higher power.

more

http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Oakland-woman-loses-2-sons-to-homicide-in-3-weeks-5160049.php

[boston bean]

1. heartwrenching. terrible.

guns got to go.

[Ranchemp.]

4. "Guns gotta go".

How do you plan to do that? Considering there are over 80,000,000 gun owners and over 300,000,000 guns in the nation, how do you get rid of them?

[Lost_Count]

8. It's easy to say and makes people feel better...

... As opposed to dealing with the real political , social and economic reasons.

[Ranchemp.]

9. Ahhhh, how could I miss that?

BTW, belated welcome to DU.

[kcr]

18. I know, right?

Why would people be upset about such a thing? Such an easy thing to miss! Good thing you caught that Oooooh boy, that sure was fuuunneee.

[Ranchemp.]

19. I understand why people would be upset,

but "guns gotta go"? C'mon. How realistic is that?

[kcr]

21. It's important to go into a thread about a mother who lost two kids

in the space of three weeks to drive home that point, with a laughter smiley to boot. That's how safe the right to guns is, huh? If it's so unrealistic, why is behavior like that necessary?

[Ranchemp.]

24. No, it's important to point out the unrealistic comments of some

who seem to think that saying "guns gotta go" is somehow an intelligent comment.
If you have a problem with my posts, then ignore would be your friend, right?

[kcr]

25. So, that means I'm right n/t

[Ranchemp.]

26. LOL.

Right?

[kcr]

27. Yes, right

If your claim is true, that guns aren't going anywhere, then why come into a horrible thread about two brothers gunned down within weeks of each other to rub it in, in response to a post obviously upset about it and wants guns to go away? What would the point of that be? That's pretty darn cruel if you ask me. The only point to that would be a. Just to be cruel (particularly if you use laughing smilies) or b. that claim isn't as true as one claims it is.

[Ranchemp.]

28. Same reason you came into this thread,

to refute a post made.
And you couldn't be more wrong, I wasn't rubbing anything in.

[kcr]

29. Well, you haven't given me a third reason

[Ranchemp.]

31. For obvious reasons,

none needed and I don't want to argue with you any longer on this subject, all we're doing is going back and forth without changing each others POV.

[kcr]

32. Oh, the reason is obvious alright n/t

[Ranchemp.]

33. Yep, sure is,

you just want to argue, and on that note, have a good night.

[nomorenomore08]

64. It didn't need refuting, though - that's kind of the point.

It was a post made out of sadness and frustration, and I'm sure even its author realizes it's not very practical.

[Ranchemp.]

67. Point taken,

and a fair point at that.

[Skittles]

165. no sense of decency

SOP

[Larsonb]

34. "Guns got to go"? How, exactly?

Last edited Tue Jan 21, 2014, 01:09 PM - Edit history (1)

[ellisonz]

167. ...

[Ranchemp.]

2. Kinda sounds like the movie

Boyz in the Hood. My condolences go out to this poor woman, East Oakland is a dangerous place.

[NYC_SKP]

3. I had a student who lost his brother, family also lived in Oakland.

Not long after returning to Oakland, my student, who earned his GED and passed the HSEE, was also taken out by gang violence.

I think it wasn't much more than a year between the two deaths.

[LukeFL]

5. Whats going in Oakland? Can the police do

Something? As much as I dislike Giuliani he should consider running for mayor there.. I mean, he cleaned NY he can do it in Oakland too.

[NYC_SKP]

6. Poverty. A new mayor can't cure a national epidemic. nt

[Jesus Malverde]

39. There is a slogan in Oakland "Stop Snitching".

Weathersby said he didn't know if the killings of his sons were linked to each other. "I don't know," he said. "All I know is neither is supposed to be dead."

The police don't get any help from the community. The community takes it upon themselves to get revenge. That leads to more dead.

Where these killings the first or the last of a feud...who knows. Odds are they were not a coincidence nor random.

[nomorenomore08]

68. +1000

All the "tough on crime" in the world won't help a place that's economically moribund.

[Ranchemp.]

74. Economically moribund doesn't begin to describe E. Oakland.

The few times we've had to enter there to nab one of our 15 most wanted, it was like entering a war zone, we always went in with a small army of fed/state and local LE to affect the arrest.

[HangOnKids]

104. Nab? Really what is this 1956?

But hey tough guy get on with your bad self! You are precious!

[Ranchemp.]

119. So, are we having another bonding session?

C'mon, let's bond, I so look forward to your insightful posts, please regale us with your infinite wisdom.
I really, really mean it.

[Ranchemp.]

134. I've gotta say this,

in all sincerity, you are fast replacing my other BESTEST BUDDY, how about it?
Would you like to become my newest BESTEST BUDDY?

[Starry Messenger]

118. LOL.

[Ranchemp.]

124. What's LOL about it?

Not trying to be confrontational, just trying to deduce what your response is.

[Jenoch]

147. I believe he us a U. S. Marshall.

Why are you laughing?

[Starry Messenger]

151. You too?????

Hahahaha!!!!!!

All the Oaktown haters out tonight.

[Ranchemp.]

155. I don't hate Oakland.

You've got me wrong, E. Oakland could be a wonderful place to live in again if the state would invest the time and money into making it a viable community again, a massive refurbishment of the neighborhoods, investment in the infrastructure, to include investment in education, jobs,etc.

[Ranchemp.]

152. Yep.

And, respectfully, it's U.S. Marshal.

[Jenoch]

156. Sorry about that.

There is a retired U.S. Marshal who is a neighbor to my parents.

Thankfully, he says Raylon Givens is not indicative of the job.

[Ranchemp.]

159. Yeeeah, that show is total bullshit.

We don't operate anything like that and it pisses us off that we would be characterized like that.

I'm due to retire in April, finally going to pull the pin and looking forward to the life of easy living, so is my long suffering wife.

[Kingofalldems]

169. Oops. I missed your last post.

[Brigid]

7. OK, gun nuts, let's hear you justify this one.

[Ranchemp.]

11. Justify what?

East Oakland is a gang infested part of the city where there are daily shootings due to the ongoing turf war for the drug trade.
We've had to arrest several wanted suspects in E. Oakland and it's not a fun place to be in.
We go in with a virtual army of fed. state and local LE to affect an arrest.

[onehandle]

13. Gang = Urban = Black

Transparent

[Ranchemp.]

15. WOD=Gangs=Turf war.

It doesn't matter what the color of one's skin, and you can take your subtle racial accusation and place it where the sun don't shine.

[ManiacJoe]

17. That is a very narrow view of the world you have there.

Gang members come is all skin colors.

[nomorenomore08]

75. But there isn't the same automatic assumption ("black/brown = gang member") in a lot of folks' minds

I'm not saying any particular poster on here feels that way, just that it's not an uncommon attitude in our society.

[Ranchemp.]

79. True,

and you can blame the MSM for that. Just about every evening news report on gang violence is depicted as either black or hispanic, very, very rarely are white gangs shown.
Hmmmm, I wonder why that is?

[nomorenomore08]

81. Goes along with "it's not terrorism when it's white dudes," I suppose...

[Ranchemp.]

86. Very true. eom.

[NYC_SKP]

168. Transparent are chicken shit attempts to ascribe racist intent to simple observations.

In a different city it wouldn't be black, it would be Hispanic, and in still yet another city it would be white gangsters.

One of the reason that over-the-top gun-hate rhetoric is so miserably failing is the tendency to take such cheap shots at other people.

It hurts the cause and paints the intended target as the victim and the speaker as the bigot.

[onehandle]

170. It's well known, GOP gun nut code.

Black, hispanic, poor, non-white, non-property owner...

Code.

[beevul]

62. Why don't you ask the Brady Campaign.

They gave CA 4 stars, and CA is the only state that gets 4.


http://www.bradycampaign.org/sites/default/files/2011_Brady_Campaign_State_Scorecard_Rankings.pdf

[onehandle]

10. Guns are handy. nt

[Ranchemp.]

12. Sometimes they are. eom.

[WillowTree]

14. May she receive an abundance of whatever most sustains her.

Last edited Mon Jan 20, 2014, 11:28 PM - Edit history (1)

[Ranchemp.]

16. +1000. eom.

[nomorenomore08]

76. +2000

[Bonobo]

20. A tragedy to be sure...

Of course my heart grieves for her loss.

But one related issue I found interesting because I cannot help myself from looking always at the subtext or slant of an article...

The mother "lost" 2 sons. True. But isn't the larger issue that 2 more men lost their lives?

If 2 sisters were killed, would we see an article about a father who lost two daughters or a mother who lost 2 daughters?

I think it is more likely that we would see it -rightly focused this time- on the tragedy of a lost life.

Does this represent the devaluation of men? Or black men? I can't answer that and won't answer it flippantly. But I do think it is worth consideration.

[kcr]

23. I think it represents the fact that they're related to each other

The fact two brothers were murdered within three weeks of each other is newsworthy. Their mother is still alive, so she's featured in the article.

[bettyellen]

47. exactly , when my two siblings died (together) there were reporters outside our house all day….

guess who they quoted, my next door neighbor! because my family stayed inside, and declined to talk to them, and he was all they could get.

this mother talked. she got quoted. and god forbid, they actually spelled out her relationship to her deceased children. it's the matriarchy in all it's glory! yeah, women have it made.

[WillowTree]

30. Perhaps it just acknowledges the pain of the one left behind to grieve.

Everything doesn't have to be a slight against someone.

[Jesus Malverde]

35. Good observation...

The tragedy described is the mothers sorrow.

No one speaks to the loss to the community, to the world, of losing these two young men, good catch.

Often times, the obvious is so in my face, I miss it. Thanks!

[bettyellen]

41. one was not a "man" at just 13, both were teenagers, who are rarely referred to as men and women...

but more often, children and sons in the context of family.

you have to really really stretch things to find sexism here. they got quotes from the Mom, and if got them from the Dad instead they would have talked bout that. sheesh.

[Bonobo]

54. I didn't scream sexism, as you may be used to doing.

What I did was to ask people to examine how much worth is placed on black males as compared to others and how that MIGHT be an unexamined issue.

So fucking examine yourself instead of trying to turn the hose on me.

These boys, men or whatever you call them lost their opportunities for a life.

I feel terrible for the mom. But I feel worse for the boys/men.

They deserve a thought or two.

[bettyellen]

36. a 13 year old is not a man- and since he'd lost a teenaged sibling- they went with sons.

for fucks sake, trying to diminish this woman's motherhood?
that is a new low. seriously. 13 is NOT a man.

[Bonobo]

37. Outrage!

It's what's for dinner!

[bettyellen]

38. you were the complainant- and diminished this mom's loss to score points….and that is repulsive.

now you're pulling the hysteria card- after you had the hissy of sexism and were wrong?
I'm embarrassed for you.

[Bonobo]

40. Many, many, many, many things are repulsive to you.

It is clear.

You are trying to stir flames and I get that. I am uninterested at this time.

[bettyellen]

44. not really, this was pretty slimy though. that you had no basis for your assumptions was just icing

on that MRA inspired turd.

how dare they characterize two teenaged siblings as the person they quoted's sons?
Did you really think that through at all? I hope not.

[Bonobo]

49. I don't know what you're talking about. nt

[bettyellen]

51. it's okay, everyone else can see it and they totally get it.

[Bonobo]

56. I am comfortable that they will get it too, Betty.

They will get that some people are poised and ready to attack ANYTHING that enters their field of vision.

My post was not outraged, nor complaining. It was more in the category if idle wondering, thinking, trying to examine things from a different perspective.

Your hair, honestly, it is on fire over nothing.

[bettyellen]

59. you tried to score MRA points over a mother's extreme grief by claiming a 13 yr old is a man.

my hair isn't on fire, I am merely calling you on that total shit stirring BS.

[Bonobo]

60. Pulling out MRA is so lame.

"Father in grieving over daughter's rape..."

If that were a headline, you might rightly say that the father's grieving should be secondary to the issue of the daughter's rape.

Is that not true?

[bettyellen]

66. Come back to earth, where 13 year olds are children and people grieve for their LOSS, not over

their child's rape. when did ANYONE write an article about any parent "grieving" over their child rape? NEVER. why do you post such nonsensical stuff? It's getting creepier and more unrealistic by the post.

[Bonobo]

72. Uh oh, first "MRA" and now "Creepy".

Betty, I will not get pulled into your definition of what is a permissible line of discussion.

You are WAY to sensitive to only one side of things and completely IN-sensitive to other sides.

I really am done once you call me an MRA and a "creep" for doing nothing other than suggesting that the value of two boys' lives is as important as the tragedy from the mom's persepective.

[bettyellen]

80. there is no dead persons perspective - or spotlight stolen, the living grieve and honor the dead as

they always have. they express the value of those children to others because someone should. adult or child, when you are gone, someone else will have to speak for, and of you to others.
It's how shit works, why are you surprised or looking for the "devaluation of men" in the routine reactions of a grieving family of a child?

[bettyellen]

98. bizarre and unfounded suppositions about rape are pretty creepy. sorry.

families don't generally go on tv and grieve publicly about their loved one's rape (because they are still alive) but they do grieve routinely about murder.

it is simply shit stirring to make such a bizarre supposition.

[Bonobo]

108. What? Again, seriously, what?

I did not make any supposition about rape.

Your "creepy" is somewhere deep in you. It is not really about me. I get that.

[bettyellen]

120. no, bizarre hypotheticals @ rape do tend to be creepy as all get out.

and claiming men actually go on TV grieving over their daughter's rape- not murder- is fucking creepy because it is inflammatory AND pointless. Not a good combo.

[Bonobo]

126. I never said men do that.

So we can dispense with that.

[bettyellen]

133. you posed it as a hypothetical. and that's bizarre.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4365195

[Bonobo]

136. I don't think it is bizarre given my intent.

Especially when I was intentionally choosing something which would be a clearly misguided headline.

I made it bizarre to demonstrate the point.

[bettyellen]

142. oh, it is bizarre and pointless. like comparing apples to imaginary rotting fruit.

not kosher.

[Bonobo]

144. That is a fairer criticism.

Fairer than throwing out "creepy" which is essentially a dog-whistle phrase intended to cast some vague passive-aggressive aspersions on my character.

[bettyellen]

149. but, introducing rape in an analogy when it has no actual relevance is disturbing in a way….

the best word is creepy. because, as I said it is both pointless and inflammatory. and it feels like you did it just to make others here upset or uncomfortable.
which is basically the cornerstone of all creepy behavior.

[Bonobo]

153. I introduced it to make a point.

If being challenging in a way that forces people to view things on the other side with as much sensitivity that they view the issues that they already are sensitive to is being "creepy" I will accept the adjective although I think it is a butchering of the English language and yes, a passive aggressive smear attempt. Passive aggressive because it is both vague and also implies shadiness.

Actually, you know what, I just described behavior that I think is "creepy".

[bettyellen]

158. there is no "other side" where people grieve over rape. the analogy made no sense…..

and had nothing to do with anything said in this thread, except to continue this bizarre imaginary gender war you tried to stir up.

[Bonobo]

161. It has nothing to do with a "gender war"

It has everything to do with the fact that men and boys are killed and it is accepted with less outrage than it deserves.

[kcr]

43. Here we go. Now we're going to get more whining about gender wars

No one is bothering to show up and complain about how Bonobo is stirring up the shit here. None of the usual suspects who show up to pile on the feminists and how they ruin the site. But if/when a spin off thread starts from this one? They'll be there, and will be sure to bring up past grievances about how mean feminists were to them, and they're good feminists/their wives are good feminists, too! Can't wait.

[bettyellen]

46. he is absolutely stirring shit by complaining this Mom is credited with being a Mom in the news….

it is an incredible fucking leap to think this is "woman privilege" which was the point he tried to make.

didn't even stop to read the kid was a child and not a man, no need to be at all accurate. so bizarre.

[kcr]

48. It's crazy

I know. I can't even comprehend the logic behind it.

[Bonobo]

50. Seriously, your level for what qualifies as shit-stirring is SO LOW.

Did you ever go to college?

Do you even REMEMBER what it was like to discuss an idea without somebody jumping up with outrage and deciding you must be Hitler because of suggesting anything that possibly questions or considers anything other than the most obvious observation?

Just seriously. Chill the fuck out for like 5 seconds before you post that someone is stirring shit. Because you know what? That may be precisely what YOU are doing, and not me at all.

[JI7]

52. no, it really is you, not her

[kcr]

53. Says the person who posted outraged at an article about a grieving mother

a mother grieving about the death of her two children. And claiming it's bias against men. Right.

[Bonobo]

55. If you read my post, you will see there is no outrage.

More like an academic question. A kind of thought exercise.

Sort of like what people that THINK do... you know, like what it used to be like before everything turned into a fucking proxy war for everything.

Again, chill the fuck out.

[kcr]

57. Really?

I mean, if I thought a whole gender were being devalued to the point that society wasn't even caring that they were being killed, I mean, wouldn't you think that was worthy of outrage? I know I would. It would certainly seem that if someone were making that claim, they were making a claim worthy of discussing passionately. I would read something like that and feel instant intent emotion and would read it from the person making that claim. I certainly wouldn't read "thought exercise" Reading your post? I hear in my head the sound those trucks making when they're backing up. Beep! Beep!

[Bonobo]

58. "Father in grieving over daughter's rape..."

If that were a headline, you might rightly say that the father's grieving should be secondary to the issue of the daughter's rape.

Is that not true?

[JI7]

61. can you post a link to it ?

[Bonobo]

65. Why do you ask that?

Are you unable or unwilling to engage in a discussion of "what if"?

I am proposing that such a headline, if it existed, would demonstrate a misapplication of importance from the rape victim to the father's perspective.

Does it threaten you to admit that?

[JI7]

77. WOW , this just keeps getting more fucked up, you have some grudge against rape stories

focusing on the rape victim rather than their father ?

the rape victim in india who was killed was often reported on through her Father's grief because she was dead and he was the one who would "speak" for her similar to the OP.

but you have a problem with the mother in the OP story because of some unfairness to father's of rape victims not getting the same ? this is just fucked up in so many ways.

[Bonobo]

82. Uh WHAT? Now you are getting shit 180 degrees backwards. nt

[JI7]

85. you are the one who complained about attention given to rape victims in this thread

[Bonobo]

88. I WHAT? No, no I did not. WTF are you ON!? nt

[JI7]

95. our own post 58

[Bonobo]

97. You mean where I suggested that a rape victim's suffering is more important than her father's?

THAT is devaluing women? How the fuck did you arrive at that conclusion?

[JI7]

99. you compared it to people grieving for the dead and trying to find something unfair

to men in all of it. it's a bunch of bs.

[Bonobo]

103. Making shit up. Anyone can read what I actually wrote and it wasn't that.

You said I devalued women. I said no, I didn't.

You pointed to a post that, in fact, said that a woman's value is worth more than the value of a person related to her and grieving over her.

You are now making shit up.

Read post 58 that you pointed to. Does it devalue women or not? No, it doesn't = you making shit up.

But I won't let you continue without pointing it out.

[JI7]

106. you tried to compare it to the mother in the OP grieving for her dead kids

[kcr]

63. Keep backing it up

Secondary how? For an internet message board where people are keeping score so they can be right in an internet discussion? In that context I say who cares? For the daughters needs, yes, it's secondary and I'm sure the father himself would agree.

[Bonobo]

69. You lost the thread of the discussion or never had it.

And I am not interested in further discussion.

[kcr]

70. And the truck hits a brick wall and crashes to a halt n/t

[bettyellen]

91. According to some here, she really should have STFU about losing two children. the nerve of her!!

doubling down like this is just embarrassing. oh poor men so oppressed by a grief stricken Mom by getting quoted.
I would laugh but I am trying to be respectful, due to the topic.

[kcr]

93. Doubling down and now claiming a different argument was being made

You're right, it's embarrassing

[Bonobo]

135. That's the voice in your head. Not mine at all.

Don't think she should shut up. NEVER thought she should shut up.

I THINK others should shut up and examine their own biases though.

[Bonobo]

73. In the mind of a person raised on daytime talk show TV I think. nt

[bettyellen]

71. survivors are the only ones left to express their grief or anger over murder- and someone thinks

this is somehow unfair to the dead. Yep, you read that nonsense here folks.

[kcr]

83. It's bizarro world.

Of all the twisted logic I've seen lately on DU. This one is right up there.

[Bonobo]

89. We agree.

You cannot talk about how black men's lives are undervalued without being called a misogynist.

It is VERY fucked up indeed.

[kcr]

90. There are better ways to discuss it

then by devaluing women.

[Bonobo]

92. Yes, except I did NOT devalue women in any way in reality.

I made a commentary on how there is, as a society, a lack of value placed on young black men. Almost as if they are expendable and their deaths are to be expected.

You jumped to an odd conclusion IMO that that devalues women and I think that was off-the-handle crazy to be honest.

[kcr]

96. Oh, please

This was all about how men are oppressed. Caring about a mother grieving is oppressing men. That was the point of your post. You mentioned the race toward the end of your post. I don't believe for a second that was meant as the whole point of your post. Your whole post read as women grieving being the focus is a privilege. It's clear you're trying to back away from it now, either because of the shit you're getting or you're realizing how crazy it is. I suspect the former.

[Bonobo]

100. So you need to rewrite what I say to get it to work for you?

It has nothing to do with oppression at all? Do you understand that word? Did you mean to use it?

Black men. Killed every day. Over and over. Not given enough value.

What part do you noir get and why do you need to edit me so that you can have a foil?

[kcr]

102. Yes, I understand. Black men are killed every day.

And you're absolutel right, the subject doesn't get nearly enough attention. It surely doesn't need to get warped further through an MRA lense.

[Bonobo]

105. Making shit up.

There is no "MRA lens" other than the crazed film over your own glinting eyeballs.

[kcr]

110. Sorry. I didn't imagine that I saw you

"intellectually questioning" the fact that they dared interview the grieving mother of the two brothers who were random victims of murder.

[Bonobo]

113. I didn't even read the article.

My comment was based on the headline.

Sorry for daring to suggest that society MAY actually undervalue the lives of black men.

That is just CRAZY TALK and clearly misogyny!

[kcr]

116. Nothing wrong with suggesting that

Your suggestion that men are undervalued because the article interviewed their grieving mother is the crazy talk.

[Bonobo]

121. That's twisting my point.

My point is that it is so expected that young black men dying violently -and yes, men in general as well, that it is easy to miss our bias and only be able to empathize through the showing of a parent's grief.

You totally missed the point in your effort to see it from the lens of your own "thing".

[kcr]

122. But the problem is that's not what you said

">and yes, men in general as well" Bingo.

[Bonobo]

137. I will not lay down while you try to paint me to suit your own agenda.

Men in general. Hell yes.

The lives of men, in general, are given less attention and value in SOME SPECIFIC WAYS, but given MORE attention and value in other ways.

That is called complexity and may be a problem when you are trying to create black and white reality, but it is true.

One of the ways that men's lives are given less value is in the fact that their death by wars, shooting, violence, -also their loss of freedom by incarceration, etc is largely considered to be expected. It surprises no one.

[kcr]

139. I think if you're going to make that argument you'd better find better ways

then picking on grieving mothers.

[Bonobo]

143. In your mind I picked on grieving mothers. In. Your. Mind.

Unless you can find a post where I did, then it is bullshit.

So post my words where I did it or STFU.

I must have 50 posts on this thread. Surely you can find a few words where I actually did what you say I did.

Please. Produce my vicious attack on the mother.

[kcr]

146. If I lost my children I know I wouldn't like being used

as an example of society devaluing men. I'd view it as an attack.

[Bonobo]

148. Someone better catch that goalpost! nt

[bettyellen]

129. still pretending this child is a man?

[Bonobo]

132. I don't see the relevance.

13 years old is a man in many places, but I don't see the relevance of that question.

Boys and men are worth the same as girls and women.

[kcr]

138. Yes, they are.

But the claim that men in general are considered less worthy of attention in the media is laughable. I think you were exploiting this story for your own agenda.

[Bonobo]

140. You think that that the death of young black men is given sufficient media attention????

Look at the numbers for fuck's sake!

Are you even being serious now?

You cannot be THAT deluded!

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/feds-49-of-murder-victims-are-black-men/

ByAMY CLARK CBS/AP August 9, 2007, 5: 31 PM
Feds: 49% Of Murder Victims Are Black Men

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6227a1.htm
Homicide Rates Among Persons Aged 10–24 Years — United States, 1981–2010

Among persons aged 10–24 years, males, those aged 20–24 years, and blacks had the highest rates of homicide over the 30 years examined (Figures 2 and 3). In 2010, the homicide rates for these groups were 12.7 per 100,000 for males, 13.2 for persons aged 20–24 years, and 28.8 for blacks.

[kcr]

141. No, I don't!!!!!!!!

I even said so in another post in this thread. In fact, if you'd kept your general all men agenda out of this, I don't think you would have run into nearly so much trouble!

[Bonobo]

145. Saying that black men's lives are undervalued is now a "men agenda".

Bzzzz! Sorry. It is a human agenda.

Fail.

[kcr]

150. Direct quote from you, where you admit it

"and yes, men in general as well"

[Bonobo]

154. Absolutely, I admit that.

So what? You think expressing a men's vantage point is itself "misogyny".

THAT is what is warped.

[kcr]

157. Yeah, so what.

Yeah, officer, I threw a bomb in the building, that doesn't mean I caused it to blow up! The building was going to blow up anyway, right? Buildings sometimes do that!

Yeah, you don't care that your oppression of the menz argument using a grieving mother of two recently dead "men" is inflammatory. Why should anyone else?

[Bonobo]

160. Here comes "Menz"

That shaming does not work.

Because I am NOT ashamed of saying that the deaths of young black men is underreported and I am NOT ashamed of saying that there is ann unexamined bias in society that views their lives as expendable.

[kcr]

162. There you go again!

Back to claiming you were all about young black men! Then you think you can make everyone reacting to your first post look foolish. You were only concerned about the racial inequality in our media, but look at all of them acting so crazy! When you didn't even mention race till the very end of your substantial post. So dishonest. And talk about dishonest. I'm not shaming men. I'm shaming your foolish, ridiculous agenda.

[Bonobo]

163. The only agenda is the one that you ARE, in fact, shaming.

You use the word "menz" in typical passive aggressive way to say that there is no undervaluing of the lives of men.

Yes, newsflash, black men are, in fact, men.

Another news flash: Men are killed in larger numbers by violence than women. But mostly it is minorities.

So that's the agenda. Right there. And yes, "menz" is a tired, babyish, passive aggressive way to shame and belittle the issue.

It's weak, it's old, its over-used, over-played and as fresh as Foghat.

[kcr]

164. Back to men in general I see

Sorry you don't like menz. Tired? Babyish? Passive aggressive? Yep, pretty much describes the MRA movement to a tee. I'm not a bit sorry to shame it. So, sorry you don't like my use of the word, and I'm not a bit surprised to see you devote so much energy now responding to my use of that word, but, oh well.

"but mostly it is minorities" At least you acknowledge that. Which makes your appropriation of it all the more revolting.

[Bonobo]

166. Not much energy at all.

But I won't let your tired reframing go unchallenged.

Reach deeper into your bag of tired, over-used memes.

[CreekDog]

172. you came in this thread, and without reading the article, made a bunch of inflammatory statements?

what besides disruption would that serve?

[bettyellen]

114. "If 2 sisters were killed, would we see an article about a father who lost two daughters or a mother

who lost 2 daughters?" that is the issue you prioritized- men vs women- two paragraphs before you talk about the victim at all.

we'd see an article quoting whoever came out of the house to give them something to write about, be it parent, sibling, spouse of friend. I know this, because I have seen it a thousand times. it is not the plot against men you imagine it to be.

[Bonobo]

117. Yes, and?

I phrased it in such a way as to highlight the fact that it is easy to see girls as victims, but when young black men are killed -as they are every day -ALOT- it is only through the lens of parental grieving that their lives are given value.

It is really funny to see you deny this type of examination into media bias because if the shoe were on the other foot, you would really be all over it.

Is it so hard for you to believe that the lives of young black men are not given as much value as most others?

Really?

Why do YOU need to make it a zero sum thing where this is about attacking women?

[bettyellen]

123. Whoa. YOU framed it to be about the Mom, and Moms in general…..not anyone else.

[Bonobo]

131. No, it was already framed that way though you may not have seen it.

But that's sort of the point I was making. The inability to see stuff because it happens so much.

That's ummm, like what you do sometimes. You examine your unexamined biases.

"Oakland woman loses 2 sons to homicide in 3 weeks"

There IS a frame already in there.

[bettyellen]

107. this is the rewrite, right here.

[Bonobo]

111. Read the original post that caused all this insane shit-flinging.

The reaction is so out-of-proportion as to be laughable once anyone with a measured sense of reality reads what I actually wrote, Betty.

You have one tool in your belt, a hammer. You look for nails EVERYWHERE.

[JI7]

109. black women are not the ones who devalue lives of black men

[Bonobo]

128. I agree. Did someone say they were? nt

[bettyellen]

94. You nailed it, thank you.

[Bonobo]

101. I will not be your convenient foil. Sorry.

I get to express sorrow for the fact that young men's lives are thrown away and devalued.

In deaths on the streets.

In prison complexes.

In wars.

You can pretend that it is an attack on women, but that doesn't make it so.

[JI7]

112. it certainly was an attack on the mother as that is what you complained about and then brought up

how people would think it was unfair if it was something else.

[Bonobo]

115. An attack on the mother? Feel free to quote me where I did that.

If you think I attacked the mother -I am being serious here- you REALLY need to slow down and check yourself.

Before you wreck yourself.

I did no such thing.

If you think I did, please show me where I did so. That would be easy, right?

GO ahead. Quote me. I have edited nothing.

[Starry Messenger]

125. I went to college

Concern trolling was shunned there too.

[Bonobo]

127. Sounds like an online course. nt

[Starry Messenger]

130. Guess to you it might!

[JI7]

45. "a new low"

yup, couldn't believe wtf i was reading.

loss of kids is often told through their parents .

[nomorenomore08]

78. More likely "devaluation of black men" than "devaluation of men" period.

I understand the point about men in this society having higher mortality rates, and I think that's an issue worth addressing. But many causes of death, from homicide to heart disease, are statistically higher in black men, which suggests to me that ingrained societal racism plays a major role in all this.

[Bonobo]

87. Agreed.

I guess what I was really trying to point out before the hit squad came was that the value of black men's live in American society or so undervalued.

I DARED to suggest that there was a little bit of this unexamined lack of value in the article's structure.

For THAT I am an MRA?

nomorenomore08, do you begin to see NOW how you cannot say anything without some people calling you an MRA?

I said NOTHING that could be construed as misogyny and merely suggested that black men's lives are undervalued. How the fuck does that become a charge of "Creepy MRA".

THIS is what things have come to for some.

[nomorenomore08]

171. I do think you've been unfairly caricatured by some posters. And that's not cool, obviously.

Certainly you can choose your words carefully and try to stay on topic, and all that - and this is general advice, not just for you personally - but I suppose there will always be somebody to twist one's words into something they didn't say.

[AgingAmerican]

42. No mother should have to go through something like this

I remember seeing a show on TV about about gun violence in the South Bronx. A woman in her late 40s had lost all three of her sons to gun violence. She had no other kids. She said she felt like a hollowed out husk, merely existing day to day with no purpose. Very heartbreaking to see.

[fujiyama]

84. This is just plain horrifying

and to think we are the richest and most powerful country in the world? And we basically have mini wars going on in our cities.