What's your income trend?

[FreeJoe]

I got my W-2 today and it confirmed what I already knew - my income for 2013 was lower than 2012, which was lower than 2011, which was lower than 2010. I've been getting token raises, but my "at risk" pay has been steadily declining. I'm happy that I have a job that I like, but it is a bit depressing to see a steady lowering of my income. It has me curious about what others are seeing.

In percentage terms, my income for 2013 was 95% of my 2012 income, 88% of my 2011 income, and 78% of my 2010 income. I guess the rate of decline is slowing, so huzzah!

[orpupilofnature57]

1. Regan-omics alive and well, if your wealthy .

[Bonhomme Richard]

2. Same here and I own my own business. n/t

[Warpy]

3. I had more purchasing power in 1967

as a barely above minimum wage clerk than I did in my last year working as an RN. Being able to look back that far is hideously depressing, when a pay of a little over two grand a year allowed me to live fairly well and pay twenty times that did not.

Other people are seeing the same damned thing, bet on it. Well, if you have anything to bet with.

[Alkene]

31. "Purchasing power" is an important observation. n/t

[oldhippie]

4. Mine is increasing slightly

But I'm retired. My income from investments has been doing a little better as the market recovers.

[CTyankee]

5. yep, mine too. I did get some investments from inheritance as my mother's sole beneficiary...

I was not expecting that to happen. My brother died suddenly in 2004 and he was the only other one who could inherit any money from my parents estate. I had thought we would share the inheritance all along...so it was a real surprise to me...but I am far from wealthy.

[Riley18]

6. Every year I make less than the year before.

Also, as a public worker in Florida, our governor has been taking 3% of every paycheck we get. That in itself amounts to over a thousand every year. His policy of skimming off 3% of our income has resulted in a loss of spending power throughout the state. I know of couples who have lost 6% of their combined income just from this one cut.

[pangaia]

29. If your state gov is taking over 3% off the top, then may I assume

you make over $100,000? Congrats on that. Although $100,000 sure ain't what it used to be.

I gross about $60,000, self employed.
But also, if BOTH people in a couple pay 3%, isn't that still 3% and not 6%?

Jeez, sounds like I am defending the gov of the great state of Florida..

[Agschmid]

7. 8% more than 2012 tax year.

Only got a 4% raise but I moved to state with Sunday OT, and I work more OT more often.

[bhikkhu]

8. Slightly higher, every year for the past 8 years

...though my income was higher before that, and had benefits thrown in.

[Squinch]

9. Haven't had a raise since 2008 in my main job, and my second job, which paid about

30K a year, became untenable in 2011 due to state budget cuts, so I stopped taking those clients.

[Matariki]

10. Curious - what does 'at risk' pay mean?

Especially in terms you getting a raise but making less each year?

[FreeJoe]

19. Pay that you can't rely on

Our company pays non-exempt employees and hourly rate, overtime pay, and a relatively small annual bonus. For exempt employees, you don't get overtime, but you get a proportionally larger annual bonus. The bonus includes many factors like our performance against company goals, overall corporate safety record, performance of the stock relative to our peers, your teams performance, and your individual performance against your goals and adherence to company values (integrity, commercial focus, servant leadership, etc). As you move up in the organization, your based pay increases slowly but your "at risk" pay target increases more quickly. The purported affect is to align people's interests with the company's interests.

Some of the bonus is paid out as cash and some is given in the form of stock with a multi-year minimum holding period. The latter serves both to tie your interests even further to the company's interests and make it expensive to quit and go to a competitor. It's colloquially referred to as "nailing their feet to the floor", but in a much nicer way than the Jobs/Schmidt no poaching pacts.

In my case, my declining pay comes from a variety of sources. Our stock hasn't performed well against our peers in the last few years (partly because it did very well in the years before that). The supply/demand curve for employees has shifted from my discipline (IT) to more core disciplines, so we are getting a smaller piece of the pie. I also shifted roles and am rebuilding an area that needs it, so I've spend a lot of company money building for the future in ways that aren't as obvious. I believe that has kept me from getting better reviews and the commensurately better pay that comes with those better reviews.

[Matariki]

37. Thanks for taking the time to explain. And also mentioning the Jobs/Schmidt agreement

I didn't know about that and it directly impacts my field (IT). I've recently had to hunt for a new job and noticed that pay in my field has become significantly higher than what I was making at my previous position. In fact that's happened every time I've had to look for a new job. Meaning that companies don't their employees salaries up to date with the current going rate - making it detrimental to stay in one job for too long. There's so much volatility in software development jobs as it is. Companies do big layoffs to manipulate their numbers for stock price purposes and so forth.

[onestepforward]

11. Same here.

Every year I compensate by giving up stuff to lower expenses. After 6 years of this crappy economy, I'm at the point now that I have nothing else to give up. I'm down to the bare basics.

It would be nice to go see a movie or buy a new pair of shoes, but that would be a luxury at this time.

[FreeJoe]

20. After re-reading my post and the responses...

...I see now that I came across as deserving of sympathy, which I'm really not. I have a great job. I enjoy going to work and often do so on my days off. I'm paid really, really well. It just got a bit depressing when the hard numbers of decline hit me while starting on my taxes. I'm still doing well and will quit complaining.

I hope that things get better for you. I lived in Houston during the horrible collapse here in the 80s and it seemed like things would never get better. I frequently thought about moving away from my family and friends for greener pastures. I didn't and was fortunate in that things finally got better. Hang in there. I hope things turn around for you.

[onestepforward]

38. I'm glad that you're doing well overall

and thank you so much for your kind words. My tiny business does well when the middle class has discretionary money to spend. Right now, 65% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. That's a big drop in customers for me, just like it is for so many other businesses. It's discouraging when several job programs have been proposed to kick start our economy, then mindlessly struck down by Reps. I was prepared for a downturn, but had no idea it would last this long.

You had a right to vent and it gave me a chance to vent too

I still have hope that things will get better for everyone and when that day comes, we can all collectively exhale with a little relief.

[1000words]

12. #poor

I hear its trending

[taught_me_patience]

13. -150k

my wife was +80k, so we netted a negative 70k for the year.

[fujiyama]

14. How old are you? What kind of work do you do?

Age discrimination may be a factor. I'd guess it may be widespread.

I will admit, I'm a beneficiary of this, being that I'm in my thirties (and in a technical field). Depending on the location and the skill set and education, the economy is great (at least for the moment). But many industries are cyclical and sooner or later things could fall again. For now, I'm lucky...

[FreeJoe]

21. I'm close to 50 in IT

My background is somewhat varied - software development, data analysis, data integration, business intelligence. I have spent the last decade hopping between managing teams, leading projects, and working as an internal consultant. Things are actually good in my area right now, so I shouldn't complain. I don't think age discrimination is a problem. I'm the same age as my boss and his boss and they don't think of me as too old.

[NancyDL]

15. Trending downward due to earlier unwise investments...

But I'm fine - better than fine. I needed some challenges in my old age and fitness for elderly people on a budget is at the top of my list. Believe it or not, until recently, I've never been challenged economically and coping with this, along with finding resources to deal with the physical challenge of growing old with a fitness approach. I've a long way to go. For me, old age is a wonderful opportunity to re-examine, and reject, some earlier false learning, and make it available to truth.

[FreeJoe]

24. My numbers were just W-2

I didn't factor investments into the mix. That can get confusing. Should you look at net worth differences? Only look at realized income? How do you factor in taxes? If you don't, it makes tax deferred money (IRA, 401K) look equivalent to normal savings and Roth money, which is noticeably wrong when you go to spend it.

My overall trend is up because I'm old enough to where investment swings are bigger than my pay differentials and the last few years have been good for my investments (mostly broad based index funds).

[oldhippie]

33. That's why it is tough to compare ......

..... almost any financial situations here on DU, or most anyplace. Too many broad or ambiguous terms. What is "income"? You were thinking W-2. But many of us haven't seen a W-2 in years. I get Social Security (different form), a fed govt annuity (1099R), some consulting income (1099), interest, dividends, and realized capital gains. That's what I consider "income." Some people equate income with "net worth" and would include unrealized gains in investments such as IRAs and 401ks. I don't.

What's even worse, I have observed, is asking about one's "tax rate." Even in some threads where the topic of discussion was specifically the federal income tax rate, so many people tend to throw in FICA, state income taxes, local income taxes, sales taxes and anything else that comes out of their paycheck. I've had people insist that everything taken off their gross pay, including their contributions to company medical plans, 401ks, and the voluntary contribution to the annual company picnic were "federal taxes." To them, (gross pay) - (take home pay) = Federal Tax.

As you seem to be aware, if you really want to compare financial situations, you have to use some specific, unambiguous terms to describe exactly which apples and oranges we're trying to compare. A lot of people here aren't capable of that, and many others just don't want to.

But still, I think this was a good discussion and has stayed on track more than most. Thank you for the question.

And on edit: I forgot bonuses. There's another slippery area. My last few years of federal civil service my "demo" pay plan included bonus opportunities of from several hundred to several thousand dollars. I used to totally forget about them, and considered them like gifts. I don't have to think about them any more.

[hfojvt]

16. that's a big pay cut

but percentages are not all of the story.

From 2010 my wage income went
2011 - up 20%
2012 - up 139%
2013 - up 143%

but my raw numbers might still be far below yours

2010 - $13,130.28
2011 - $15,814.01
2012 - $31,329.74
2013 - $31,987.12

[FreeJoe]

22. Yeah, I'll quit my bitching

Keep your trend up! My early years looked a lot like that. The best thing I ever did was to keep my expenses from rising as fast as my income.

[Art_from_Ark]

17. It's going down, down, down

in a burning ring of fire

[Victor_c3]

18. I'm slightly trending up

But I'm in the range of years where people are most likely to see large pay-raises in their incomes.

I've basically been on three different career paths in the last 11 years. I did a little over 5 years in the Army as an officer and my pay peaked in 2007 at $84,000. I got out and got a well paying but brutal job in corporate America and made $87,000 in 2008 and was on track to break $100,000 in 2009, but I lost my job because of my severe PTSD issues in October 2009. Realizing that I needed something more low-key and lower stress, I got out of middle management and got a job as a chemist for the federal government. I started at the bottom of the pay scale at $53,500 in 2010, $55,500 in 2011, $64,000 in 2012, $76,000 in 2013, and I'm on track to be roughly $78,000 in 2014.

As a federal employee I know my pay will top out in 2032 at around $100,000 (I'll be at the highest paygrade for my position). I have a ridiculously amazing job that I both enjoy doing and I get a huge sense of accomplishment as it is vitally important to our nation. On top of that, it completely jives with my PTSD and my overall sanity and quality of life is almost what it was before the war. I'm 33 and I will never leave my current position for one that'll offer me more money. I'm basically in retirement mode.

I'm sure it sounds like I make a lot of money, but I live in a bedroom community about an hour north of New York City and the median family income in my town was $87,195 in 2012 (according to wikipedia). My wife is a stay at home mom and I have two young daughters - so my income doesn't even bring us up to average for our community. I live in an average sized house (1,600 sqft, 4 bedrooms, 1 bath) and my wife and I share an 11 year old VW. We need to get a second car, but I can only barely afford it and I'm trying to hold off as long as I can.

Overall, I feel very content and lucky to be where I am financially. I can meet all of our needs and I have enough left over to put everything else I want within a reasonable reach of me - barring that nothing catastrophic happens like my 11 year old car dying.

[Adrahil]

23. Flat to slightly down

My income leveled off a couple years ago. No raise last year, no raise this year. The company is doing okay, but it's tough right now. I am well paid and can stand a year or two of being static or even declining a bit. But it is the first time in my adult life that my income decreased year over year.

[FreeJoe]

25. That's probably a big part of the psychology

My pay increased fairly steadily from 1988 until just a few years ago. I had a few really good years mixed in for special circumstances, so there were a few decline years, but nothing broke trend. Now, even though I'm happy with how much I make, the trend has definitely turned downward.

[Adrahil]

26. Yup, I'm just afraid that those of us...

... In this situation are being conditioned to this "new normal." My company is great, and I don't think they'd knowingly participate in such a thing, but it seems to be more a trend overall, and it's a concern to me.... A systematic attempt by the plutocrats to lower wages, even among supposedly in-demand professionals and skilled middle class workers.

[greymattermom]

27. I'm a state employee in a very red state (Kansas)

we have had 1 2% raise in the past 8 years. Most vote with their feet, come in late, leave early. There are lots of empty offices. We're allowed to work off site, and most do. Buildings aren't being maintained, labs are dark, windows are dirty, equipment is failing, and there is no money to repair or replace it, and I'm in the fancy schmancy building they show to visitors.

[lapfog_1]

28. I am flatlined...

but I expect to get a new job... with a lower salary... this year

[CFLDem]

30. Up, Up, Up for me.

Then again I am at the beginning of my career, and if we don't start major kinetic action somewhere soon, i may be joining the breadlines with everyone else later this year.

[snooper2]

32. been about steady last few years..bonus may be a little bigger this year than last

[Johonny]

34. My income was the highest it has ever been

because my company has cut back on so many jobs but the work has not cut back at all so I had to work a ton of overtime. It is sort of like a raise if you don't like being home ever.

[MissB]

35. Mine is going up. Our household income is going up too.

Dh is at the peak of his career, so he still gets raises each year. He's worked for the same employer for not quite 30 years. He still has plenty of pay scale left in his current position.

I'm only halfway through my pay scale. I'm just coming out of four years of furloughs and pay freezes, but I've been fortunate to move up positions in that time so I still saw raises. The furloughs have ended and pay has been unfrozen, so it's still looking good.

Dh will likely only work full time for another 7.5 years, then switch to part time. By then, I will be at the top of my current pay scale. The house will be paid off and the kids will be out of college.

Or it will all go to crap.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

36. holding steady but, buying power has disintegrated to the point that I might as well be

taking a yearly cut in pay instead of some pitypat based on Yearly Eval. Raise. which is a fucking joke just on the face of it. The whole premise is a Joke on Me.

[Boom Sound 416]

39. You make extra pay for hazard and that has declined?

[Tikki]

40. We make pretty much what we were making before my husband retired 10 years ago, a bit more.

The difference is our output is much smaller. With him being home full-time we are better able to
plan our priorities and get them done on a day to day basis…saves money and we invested pretty wisely
as we are now finding out.

Sad thing though, we did lose some of our investment cash during boosh's reign.

NO MORE REPUBLICANS, please.


Tikki

[fizzgig]

41. i made about what i did in 2012

household income was down a couple grand as my husband lost his job in mid-november.

i've barely broken 20k each year for the last six years. didn't even get my insultingly small raise this year.

[MadrasT]

42. Slightly up due to a raise in December

after 3 years of flatline where nobody in the company got a raise. Business was off.

Not complaining - I am well compensated for what I do. It doesn't go as far as it did 3 years ago, but I am in no way hurting for $$.

Nearly every day I think about how fortunate I am - I would be an idiot to think I got here completely due to my own efforts. I have been lucky as shit (right place, right time kind of stuff).

I know plenty of folks who work their asses off and do all the "right things" and are really struggling. It ain't right.