Is Southwest Chief a 'sacrificial train'?

[TexasTowelie]

Some rail watchers think Amtrak is using the Southwest Chief routing issue to sidestep its congressional mandate to subsidize long-distance trains — those traveling more than 750 miles — with federal funds.

Lawmakers gave more than $1.5 billion to Amtrak in 2013, with $71 million of that amount clawed back due to sequestration, a Nov. 13 Congressional Budget Office memo said.

“All told, the government covers almost all of Amtrak’s capital costs as well as more than 10 percent of its operating costs,” the memo said. “In 1970, when the Congress established Amtrak, it anticipated subsidizing the railroad for only a short time, until it became self-supporting. Since then, however, the federal subsidies to Amtrak have totaled about $45 billion.”

In July, Amtrak rolled out a $151 billion plan for improvements to routes in its Northeast Corridor, where it owns the tracks.

More at http://amarillo.com/news/latest-news/2014-01-25/southwest-chief-sacrificial-train .

[Ron Green]

1. The idea that passenger rail should "pay for itself"

is absurd (it's national infrastructure), but right-wingers in Congress love to flog it, not mentioning the billions for airports and highways.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

5. I get that, to a point

I can go along with that notion where the train is actually useful, i.e. Boston to Washington.

But operating routes that haven't been practical since the 1950's or earlier is another matter.

[Ron Green]

7. I'd want you to define "practical" in your statement.

Not the same as "profitable?"

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

9. Not taking days longer than a plane

I don't think tourists gazing upon the majesty of the Feather River is something that requires government subsidies.

[Ron Green]

16. These long-distance trains serve as transportation for many

people from point to point along the routes, as well as a more leisurely and civilized way to travel a long trip.

The fact that they don't average a hundred miles an hour is the fault of freight railroads and the lobbyists for other modes.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

17. That is what the Essential Air Service Program is for

Whether or not it is more leisurely and civilized doesn't mean it is a reasonable use for federal funds.

Commercial aviation has been around for a century now, most people recognized that trains were not going to be a viable long-term alternative for long distance travel not much long after.

If some company wants to build an American Orient Express, they can go for it. But federal funds shouldn't be wasted on long-distance trains.

[Demo_Chris]

10. Why should California (for example) pay to subsidize a bunch of NE tracks and trains?

I can think of all kinds of programs more useful than Amtrak. At this point Amtrak seems both unfair and an incredible waste of money.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

18. That doesn't even bother me

any more than say the Tennessee Valley Authority does. Many federal endeavors are regional in nature.

It is federal funding to offer an alternative to flying coast-to-coast in six hours for under $500 round-trip. That is like operating a federal clinic to perform amputations for broken bones for twice the price of a cast.

[cherokeeprogressive]

2. My Wife and I are taking the Coast Starlight from L.A. to San Francisco in May.

We're also seriously considering taking the California Zephyr from Emeryville, CA to Chicago and flying back, possibly in the late fall.

I love Amtrak.

[xxqqqzme]

3. I love the Coast Starlight.

It is my favorite train. I tried to take the California Zephyr the last time I went to the mid-west because I had heard it was a beautiful route. But from SoCal the connection is horrible (2 yrs ago). I would have had to get a hotel for the night to take it. I ended up on the Southwest Chief. I have had some wonderful conversations and met remarkable people on the train. I think it is the most civilized way anyone can travel.

[MindPilot]

6. My last ride was a little disappointing.

We rode the Coast Starlight from LA to Portland and back in October of '12. It was my third time and it has deteriorated since my first trip in 90-something. The food is not as good--and they always seemed to be out of something. The rolling stock all seems like 60's vintage. The overhead glass in the lounge car was scratched and discolored so it was hard to see. Expect at least one toilet in your car to become non-functional. The tracks are in very poor condition so the ride is pretty rough. There are some nice smooth fast stretches, but there are some truly scary bumps. The parlor car does a pretty good job of capturing that "old California" ambiance but it felt like being in a Steven King movie...a little weird late at night. Federal agents got on the train and walked up and down as we passed Vandenburg.The much-hyped WI-Fi is actually a My-Fi in the parlor car. There is an area--near Salinas I think-- where the signals are broken so the crew has to get off the train and be crossing guards.

But it is still well worth the trip, Enjoy!

[Bluenorthwest]

8. I just did a very nice overnight trip on the Coast Starlight

I've done the LA to SF run in the past, a very nice trip.

[Demo_Chris]

11. Yes, but by that logic the government should fund cruise ships...

And if they want to model it after the trains, expensive slow ships with bad service.

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. I'm not making any arguments for or against anything at all. I just like train rides. n/t

[Demo_Chris]

13. Fair enough! Trains are pretty cool. nt

[MADem]

4. I will love Amtrak when they do what that (damned Republican) lawmaker suggested, and allow pets on

board. Of course, the GOP controls the House, so they have the floor...but here's the scoop:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reliable-source/wp/2013/11/21/congressmen-use-adorable-dogs-to-persuade-amtrak-to-allow-pets-on-trains/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reliable-source/files/2013/11/ROC5182-PIJAC-sensD+G+dogs-laugh-PC.jpg

Grimm and Sebastian headlined the news conference outside Union Station designed to pressure Amtrak to allow dogs and cats on pet-approved train cars. The event, heavy on canine cuteness and human speeches, featured bill sponsors Grimm, Rep. Jeff Denham (who brought his French bulldog, Lily) and Rep. Steve Cohen. A dozen other small dogs were there to amp up the cuteness factor, including Monkey, a King Charles spaniel, and Winston, a fairly dignified, Union Jack-sweater-wearing English bulldog.
The human celebrity was Hallmark Channel’s Laura Nativo, resident pet-lifestyle expert and “One of the Eight People From the Dog World You Should Know,” according to Dogster magazine. Cradling her pocket Pomeranian, Preston Casanova, Nativo declared it’s unfair that puppies are canina non grata considering Amtrak actually allowed pets until 1976.

[godevil10]

14. This has been the way with most government programs during my lifetime

"In 1970, when the Congress established Amtrak, it anticipated subsidizing the railroad for only a short time, until it became self-supporting."

I can't wait until well get the bill for the ACA in a couple of years.

[Populist_Prole]

15. It's generally the most consistently punctual of the LD trains

Plus it runs on some of the best track outside the NEC, plus it has good deal of 90 mph running in Az and Mo.