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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
Mon Jan 27, 2014, 04:43 PM Jan 2014

What makes a person succeed in America today?

I'd like to know what DUers think about this article. BUT, DON'T JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS. YOU HAVE TO READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE FROM BEGINNING TO END TO KNOW WHAT IT SAYS. iT IS NOT ABOUT RACIAL OR ETHNIC SUPERIORITY. TO THE CONTRARY.

A SEEMINGLY un-American fact about America today is that for some groups, much more than others, upward mobility and the American dream are alive and well. It may be taboo to say it, but certain ethnic, religious and national-origin groups are doing strikingly better than Americans overall.

Indian-Americans earn almost double the national figure (roughly $90,000 per year in median household income versus $50,000). Iranian-, Lebanese- and Chinese-Americans are also top-earners. In the last 30 years, Mormons have become leaders of corporate America, holding top positions in many of America’s most recognizable companies. These facts don’t make some groups “better” than others, and material success cannot be equated with a well-lived life. But willful blindness to facts is never a good policy.

Jewish success is the most historically fraught and the most broad-based. Although Jews make up only about 2 percent of the United States’ adult population, they account for a third of the current Supreme Court; over two-thirds of Tony Award-winning lyricists and composers; and about a third of American Nobel laureates.

. . . .

Merely stating the fact that certain groups do better than others — as measured by income, test scores and so on — is enough to provoke a firestorm in America today, and even charges of racism. The irony is that the facts actually debunk racial stereotypes.

Much more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/26/opinion/sunday/what-drives-success.html?hp&rref=opinion&_r=0

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haele

(12,581 posts)
3. I've always associated upward mobility with "who you know". Actual Merit does not ensure success.
Mon Jan 27, 2014, 05:55 PM
Jan 2014

In my experience Association first, then merit (ability, education and/or skill), then level of effort (hard work) are the "ingredients" for success. In a hierarchal society where only the "above average" can really succeed, the remainder - the average and the below average, are screwed, because there are a lot of people out there who work harder or have more merit who are verging on (or have sunk into) poverty or homelessness.
Working hard does not guarantee success. Merit does not guarantee success. However, who you know can open the door to success quite a bit wider for you than your competition who are also knocking on that door.

If you associate, have associations with or otherwise can impress people who have money or access to higher levels within a career or employment arena, you're going to be able to use their coat-tails to get into "their club".
Just human nature in action.

Haele

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
4. I think part of the secret of the people who succeed through associations is that they know from the
Mon Jan 27, 2014, 09:39 PM
Jan 2014

get-go that their friends will give them the benefit of the doubt if push comes to shove.

Those of us who lack the associations have less confidence going into a situation whether it be a new job, an interview or a classroom.

I don't thin that your view (with which I pretty much agree) contradicts the statement in the article. You go a little deeper. Associations make people confident.

But the really successful have to put in a lot of effort and have to have a lot of impulse control.

I think the article was measuring academic success primarily. That is not always the same as financial or social success.

But I agree, who you know is really important. It gives you opportunities that people who don't have those associations just don't get. Of course, you can still disappoint and fail if you don't have impulse control and can't perform.

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